Bow Products Xtender Fence

[Edward Weber]

https://bow-products.com/product/xt-xtender-fence/

In general, I like Bow products, the feather boards I have are greet. I think this looks like a good product as well, with lots of possibilities but at it's core, it's just an aluminum extrusion.
I DO NOT like overpriced tools, is this one of them. Is it worth the price?
What do you guys think?

If I need a longer fence, I would probably just make one, obviously less convenient but about 1/3 the price.

[Mike Cutler]

Edward

Each person has different needs, and abilities. If this helps a person, and they do not have the ability to make a fence, then it's worth it.
I have three of the their feather boards and have always like them, but some folks would argue why spend that much money on a featherborad, when you can make one from scraps?
It's all relative.
When you get right down to it, why does any table saw fence need to extend much past the back of the blade? If a person needs more fence length for alignment and reference, it would be better to have it in front of the blade. That's a big lever though, so a standard fence is the compromise we've all learned to use and accept.

[Edward Weber]

Edward

Each person has different needs, and abilities. If this helps a person, and they do not have the ability to make a fence, then it's worth it.
I have three of the their feather boards and have always like them, but some folks would argue why spend that much money on a featherborad, when you can make one from scraps?
It's all relative.
When you get right down to it, why does any table saw fence need to extend much past the back of the blade? If a person needs more fence length for alignment and reference, it would be better to have it in front of the blade. That's a big lever though, so a standard fence is the compromise we've all learned to use and accept.

I get all that, I was just wonder aloud, is this too much for what it is.
Also, this does allow for placing anywhere along the fence, before or after

[Richard Coers]

Try pricing a custom die made for that tall extrusion. Might have cost $50,000. Consider the factory cost to have an extruder that will take thousands of tons of pressure to shove a billet through it. Then consider the low volume of sales. If you want them to stay in business, they have to make profit. That "Just an extrusion" takes some huge machinery and is a miracle of engineering! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8BWQBP4Vhk

[Frederick Skelly]

Try pricing a custom die made for that tall extrusion. Might have cost $50,000. Consider the factory cost to have an extruder that will take thousands of tons of pressure to shove a billet through it. Then consider the low volume of sales. If you want them to stay in business, they have to make profit. That "Just an extrusion" takes some huge machinery and is a miracle of engineering! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8BWQBP4Vhk

Thanks for that Richard. I hadn’t considered that point of view before.
Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

Aside. There are many sources for extruded aluminum. I happened to be on the Magswitch website and saw theirs. Posting in case it’s helpful to someone. LINK (https://magswitch.com/collections/woodworking/products/magswitch-universal-track-36-inch-8110370)

[Edward Weber]

Try pricing a custom die made for that tall extrusion. Might have cost $50,000. Consider the factory cost to have an extruder that will take thousands of tons of pressure to shove a billet through it. Then consider the low volume of sales. If you want them to stay in business, they have to make profit. That "Just an extrusion" takes some huge machinery and is a miracle of engineering! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8BWQBP4Vhk

The point I was trying to get at is NOT what it costs to manufacturer, that's irrelevant to the consumer.
You seem to be implying that they have to charge that high of a price or they'll lose money, that's a pretty simplistic view.
Aluminum extrusion have swamped the woodworking community over the past twenty years and yet the price hasn't seen a drop, if anything it's gotten more expensive in some cases. There are also dozens of dozens of vendors doing this type of work these days, a 6" tall extrusion is not an unheard of request.
Yes making a die and an extrusion costs what it costs, again, not the point.
(even if it costs 100K to manufacturer, do the math, they don't have to sell too many)

Is spending $150 on a straight piece of aluminum too high a price?
I would say, unless it's your only solution to do the job, then yes it is.

Not to mention that they're selling a simple product to a community of people who make things as the main part of their craft. Asking a premium price for it is a step too far IMO.

[Randy Heinemann]

I would agree that, if a woodworking tool or jig or fixture is something that gives you increased capability and enhances your ability to do certain tasks, it's worth it. For example, I bought the Woodpeckers MFT Square just for the purpose of ensuring that my miter head on my MFT table was square. Some would argue the price for the MFT Square was excessive. However, every time I do final, finish crosscuts on my MFT with my track saw, I am sure the square was worth it. I have complete confidence that my cuts will be as perfectly 90 degrees as possible. So it was worth it for me.

What you need to decide is whether the Bow fence will be something that you will regularly use, whether it enhances your ability to rip on a job site type tablesaw, and whether you will use it on a regular basis. True you can make fences similar to the Bow for your saw and, if that is something you get satisfaction out of or you will only use the fence once or twice, then I'd say the cost might not be worth it to you. With prices of tools and woodworking related jigs/fixtures being as high as they are these days, the worth to you to get one off the shelf that you have a high degree of confidence is accurate and helps you do your work is clearly a subjective decision. I know it is for me.

[Richard Coers]

The point I was trying to get at is NOT what it costs to manufacturer, that's irrelevant to the consumer.
You seem to be implying that they have to charge that high of a price or they'll lose money, that's a pretty simplistic view.

You seem to be implying they should charge what you like and not cover costs. I don't appreciate the personal attack on my opinion . Simplistic or not, my opinion is as good as yours. Besides being a retired mechanical engineer, I also ran a business for 8 years. I have the experience to back up my opinion.

[mike stenson]

I think the OP should produce them, and make it cost what he believes the cost should be.

[Edward Weber]

You seem to be implying they should charge what you like and not cover costs. I don't appreciate the personal attack on my opinion . Simplistic or not, my opinion is as good as yours. Besides being a retired mechanical engineer, I also ran a business for 8 years. I have the experience to back up my opinion.

It was not meant to be a personal attack, rather, implying that it's much more complicated situation than what you laid out.

As a consumer, of course I think they should cost less.
As someone who could make a DIY version, I think they should cost a lot less.
You seem to like attacking me, what do you guys think it should cost?

Far be it for anyone here to answer a simple question. Is this an overpriced tool?
Or would you rather equivocate and avoid the price point some more.

[Mike Cutler]

I get all that, I was just wonder aloud, is this too much for what it is.
Also, this does allow for placing anywhere along the fence, before or after

Edward

Like I stated, everything is relative.
People pay big money for Festool Guide Rails, and they're just a simple aluminum extrusion. I thought when Makita and others got into the game, the prices would come way down on track saws, but they didn't. As long as Folks are willing to pay Festool prices, Makita will keep it's prices at point just lower enough, to attract consumers. I own 3 Festool Guide Rails, so I'm a case of the pot calling the kettle black. ;)
The one drawback to making your own fences is that they change over time. I've made more than a few guides for circular saws, but all of them twisted, bowed, or warped over time, and had to be remade, or discarded. Same with table saw, shaper, and bandsaw, fences for specific purposes. They just distort over time.
I would have to compare that fence to an extrusion from 80/20, and for a similar sized extrusion you would be paying about 1/2 of that price, but then you would have to machine the 80/20 extrusion to be able to use those fence clamps in the Bow product.
Is it too much for what it is? Sure, but that is true of most consumer products. I've never seen anything that a $25K shotgun can do, that a $2500.00 shotgun can't, or a $500.00 shotgun in the right hands. But you'd be surprised at how many $25K shotguns are sold. ( $25K is actually kind of a mid range price. These are not investment guns purchased for resale.)
It's all relative.

[Edward Weber]

Thanks Mike, I realize it's all relative.
I thought it was a simple enough question, where people would say, they would or wouldn't spend that much on a simple aluminum extrusion fence system.
I suppose I didn't realize the we would be delving into the sellers cost of manufacturing.

IMO, with a product like this, the money is made by selling the accessories, not the blank.

We can all agree to disagree

[Tom Trees]

I've been looking for an extrusion for my TS for a little bit, but that's nothing like what I want.
i.e a full length fence for trench cuts with the use of Shaw guards,as per Roy Sutton's "Safe wood machining" on Utoob,
and ability to be slid back to suit the work/blade height when ripping, also shown in the video.
The low fence option to suit cutting of thin stock or sheet goods, whilst using a crown guard is lousy also,
so it's no different to a regular length of 80x20 extrusion to me.

Now, if they made a nice add on to suit the crown guard, that might change things on the matter...
(Should it perfectly perform said tasks above, and certainly not have a bow, that is.)

[Edward Weber]

80/20 has a nice extrusion, smaller than the Bow Products but similar in many ways.
https://8020.net/3075.html

You may have to combine a couple of different profiles to accommodate what you're after

[Tom Trees]

I've yet to see one which was as nice as I'd like, as pretty much everything, be it from existing machinery,
or indeed more on topic, what could be used for such from other sources, all seem a wee bit thin to me...
that is, if one intends to bolt a lip of some sort very snuggly, or cut away some of the structural profile instead.

Not holding my breath for something a lil nicer to come along, so I suppose I will probably try some 80x20 and see how that goes first,
Edit: (muck about with things for a bit, and see if I can do without needing more profiles) :rolleyes:


Tom

[al ladd]

Much of its value is its ability to use BOW featherboards etc. By the time you're done you can spend nearly $300 for a full system. If you have more money than time, go for it.

You can buy a nice extrusion that allows clamping to top and face in 46 inch length for 30-50$. Look at T-nutz.com or Misumi. 2060 (20mm x 60mm) or even 2040 if short is OK or 2080 if you want tall,-- works well, metric based lighter than 80/20 inch based system. Need to work harder to get hardware that fits it though.

[Tom Trees]

Of all of the stuff I've seen, nothing has a low enough profile for sheet goods or thin stock,
like what you see in Roy's video.
516708
Why that company wouldn't be selling something what would comply with the rules for all circumstances, is beyond me? :confused:

Edit: on second thoughts...call me sceptical, but I'd not be surprised if it were some clever company out there,
who've decided to take a hit in producing such a brand/fence...
in order for fish like myself to bite, and explain the safe way to do things, i.e state the rules as per the UK HSE,
and as such said company makes another sale, once the prospective buyer figures out how much safer things can be made.

Tom

[les winter]

Woodhaven sells a nice straight one. They even measured the flatness for me before shipping.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Aside. There are many sources for extruded aluminum. I happened to be on the Magswitch website and saw theirs. Posting in case it’s helpful to someone. LINK (https://magswitch.com/collections/woodworking/products/magswitch-universal-track-36-inch-8110370)


Yep - take your design and volume projections to any of the large number of starcruiser-class alum extrusion operations.

The circle diameter to press that shape isn't any great shakes, but the hollows do add a little bit of complexity, but are very common. There's nothing about that shape that seems much different than the many hundreds of shapes designed annually for architctural aluminum windows - curtain-wall systems, high-rent condo operating windows and doors, other purposes. Each new building design seems to require several new serious extrusions for connection to the structure.

You would contract for the extrusions with the people who have a factory of presses lined up, and the billet supply and reheat furnace to service them. Often anodizing tanks are part of the same operation.

$50k seems very high, but I've been out of it for a while so anything's possible. Its common to have a die amortization schedule of so-many-cents-per-pound. Low-volume usage would require some up-front $$. High-volume usage would not - the die[s] are fully amortized in the product price. Keep in mind that dies wear, and have to be replaced - as the buyer of the extruions, you don't want the dies to wear very much, because as it opens up, the extrusion walls get thicker, more metal is being pushed, and you are paying by the pound.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Twenty plus years ago,at Woodworking Hhow, Jim Heavy showed building a fence extension from 3/4" MDF. Two layers, separated by a spacers to make it exactly 2" thick. Clamped to existing fence, and just add 2" to measurements.