Door stiles & rails different thickness

[Samuel Lee]

I’m building a 2-1/2” door using stave cores for the stiles and rails. The door will have 3/4” vertical planks on both sides with insulation in the middle. Widths will be 5” for stiles and top rail & 8” for the bottom rail. Each stile will be 2-1/2” thick but for each rail i’m planning to do 1” thick because I’m going for a vertical planks only look. Jointing will be a through M&T.

This means my tenons will be roughly 3/4” thick max with 1/8” shoulders. Am I asking for trouble and should I double up the tenons?

Thx.

[Jim Becker]

If you do the stiles as "built up" construction, it would be very easy for you to do through or near-through tenons on the rails that would provide a "yuge" amount of gluing area which will result in a very strong joint. It would also make it easier for you to eliminate one shoulder (presumably toward the front) because you could put more rail thickness into the mortise. There is no rule that requires your stiles to be a single piece of wood for the thickness and for a creative design like this, there can be advantage to lamination to get things where you want them to be. Honestly, all the doors I've built (not many for sure) have used a built up construction to eliminate the pain of cutting deep mortises in solid stock.

[Samuel Lee]

Thanks Jim. I was worried if there’s a rule for rails to have the same thickness as stiles which seems isn’t the case. ‘Yuge’ tenon it shall be

[Richard Coers]

Do you have the hinges and lock sets to work on a 2 1/2" thick door? You might want to consider ball bearing hinges for all that weight! Watch out for wood expansion on a plank door style. The reason panel doors came into the world is that plank doors became locked into the jamb when the humidity went way up. Might be the reason the framing is called jambs?

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Richard to thoroughly investigate the hardware requirements and make a decision there before you build the door.

[Samuel Lee]

All good points - am very new to woodworking so I find myself ending up in a lot of rabbit holes.

I will be using 3, 5” ball bearing hinges. For expansion and contraction, my plan is to use 1/32” spacing between each 5” wide T&G plank which seems reasonable given the shrinkulator outputs for 5” QS Sapele going from 8% to 12% moisture in Massachusetts.

I build the jamb using 8/4 Sapele and am reinforcing the tops and bottom by securing to top beam and bottom concrete steps.

[Brian Holcombe]

Take a look at Tectus hinges. Great for heavy doors, I used them on 9’ tall doors MDF over a wooden frame that were very very heavy.

I make rails and stiles different thicknesses for door that do not need to create a seal. If they do then I want at least the face against the seal to be uniform.

Generally speaking I make the panel edges and tenons the same thickness so that I can groove for panels and fill the absent space with a tenon haunch.

[Richard Coers]

Does the door ever see rain? Those 1/32 gaps will direct the water down and fill up the dado in the bottom rail. That will peel off finish and greatly reduce the life of the door. I suggest you go to 1/2" wood for the panels, only 1/4" fan fold rigid insulation between the panels, and if possible, change the design so the outside panel extends past the bottom rail. That will get you down to a 2" door which is pretty standard for an exterior door. If you don't want to do any of that, at the minimum, drill a few weep holes in the bottom dado to drain out water. If it makes any difference, I done quite a few doors, ranging from churches to a strip club. The strip club doors lasted for decades and when they built a new building, the enshrined the doors inside the new building as a bit of club history.

[Samuel Lee]

The door is covered by a metal bulkhead door. IÂ’ll post pictures tonight for clarity when I get back.

Is the idea of the dado to allow the vertical planks a place to ‘rest on’? I was just going to nail the vertical planks through the middle

[Joe Calhoon]

If I am understanding your constitution you have full thickness stave core stiles - 1” thick rails centered then vertical planks on to these to end up flush with the stiles. All t&g together but not glued to each other. It could work but seems overly complicated. I think that thinner rail is going to create a weak pinch point especially if the door gets slammed. There are a few methods to build solid wood plank doors. I prefer the ladder frame type. Thick, 2 1/4” or more is better with a ladder frame. If you are on the East coast Sipo Mahogany is easy to source and has less movement that Sapele. It’s a lot better for doors. When I do these I make a ladder frame 1” to 1 1/4” thick then use 1/2” to 5/8” thick T&G paneling that is glued to the frame but not glued to each other with spacing to allow for movement. I don’t do stave core on these because I end up with a 3 layer construction that is very stable if the grain is reversed. Quartered or rift material is better but due to costumer choices I have made a lot of these with plain sawn material with no issues. One big advantage of the ladder frame vs your method is the planks add to the structural strength by overlapping the vertical stiles of the ladder frame.
here are pictures of one I just built for a rustic hike to cabin at 12000 ft. elevation.
5x 5 bb hinges are a good choice or the Tectus hinges Brian mentioned. I am liking the Aussie Weider concealed ones also. Most high end hardware mfgs will have locks and hardware for 2 1/2” thick doors. Emtek even offers hardware to 2 1/2” thick. Plank doors are better to the weather than frame and panel as the water just runs straight down without intersecting rails.
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[Richard Coers]

The door is covered by a metal bulkhead door. IÂ’ll post pictures tonight for clarity when I get back.

Is the idea of the dado to allow the vertical planks a place to ‘rest on’? I was just going to nail the vertical planks through the middle
I thought you were talking about an entrance door, no idea it was going to be nailed together.-

[Kevin Jenness]

I agree with Joe's suggestion as to the ladder frame. I have made several exterior doors that way exposed to the weather out of Spanish Cedar that have held up well. If you do build your stiles as described in your first post be sure to add blocking at the hinge and lockset points. Tectus hinges are excellent though expensive and require a rather deep mortise so do your homework.

[Samuel Lee]

Been a while. Started in the winter, went away in the spring and I find myself assembling in the summer. Building an exterior performance door has been a huge learning curve and I now understand why quotes can be north of 10k easily.

Anyway, I’m now wondering if it’s better to install the door knob and finish one side first before install or does it not really matter? I see from Joe’s photos that he did all that beforehand. My door is really heavy if that matters

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Yah that's a beast! I always remove the door knob and deadbolt before finishing a hanging door. Depending on what finish you have in mind, I would but on a coat or two before hanging. Figuring out a way to finish both sides of a door that is not hung is a big time saver. That door looks too heavy for the both sides at once tricks I use. I hope you post your progress. I would enjoy following along.

[Kevin Jenness]

Yah that's a beast! I always remove the door knob and deadbolt before finishing a hanging door. Depending on what finish you have in mind, I would but on a coat or two before hanging. Figuring out a way to finish both sides of a door that is not hung is a big time saver. That door looks too heavy for the both sides at once tricks I use. I hope you post your progress. I would enjoy following along.

I like to prefinish doors flat in the shop. You can finish one side of the door at a time by suspending it between horses on lags driven into the top and bottom rails, filling the lag holes when done. You can also stand the door up on blocks with a standoff from a wall or bench attached to a hinge mortise. This way you can do both sides at once, but run the risk of finish sags. Be sure to finish the top and bottom and seal the hinge and latch mortises. Finishing just one side before hanging may invite cupping.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I use big spikes in pre drilled holes just like Kevin Jenness's lags. If the door is not too heavy you can flip it while it is wet by pivoting it on the spike or lag. The spikes need to be long and the top of the horse narrow enough for the heads of the spike to hangover. I would want a helper to try that with a heavy door. I saw an ad for a vertical system for multiple doors. Erecta-rack.

https://erecta-rack.com/products/door-painting-brace-system

[Samuel Lee]

Cheers guys. I decided I’ll make a jig out of some lumber and caster wheels that will allow me to stand the door upright and finish both sides - that way I would already have something I can also use to position the door in place when it comes time to installing.

[Jim Becker]

Sammie, with the equivalent of a couple of taller sawhorses and some heavy screws, you can pivot the door suspended between the supports to be able to work on both sides with less concern about the weight until it's time to move it to where it's going to live A screw/bolt not quite on the center line top and bottom and another set top/bottom out near one edge allows for that pivoting and since you will not see the top and bottom after installation,

[Samuel Lee]

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Got round to putting a basic jig together which has allowed me to varnish both sides. Also took the time to fill in some loose (bad) tenons with epoxy to make it seem like I knew what I was doing =p

Another question I had was about the door knob backset - how should I measure given I have a 2-3 bevel on the lockside. Should I simply measure from the wider side?