Grizzly Premium Hand Planes?

[Kane Bragg]

In market for first #5 hand plane. Internetting and YouTubing all the options - Stanley, WoodRiver, Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Kunz, TayTools, Jorgensen, Quangsheng, and finally, Grizzly. I have no interest in scouring eBay or antiquing for a used option to restore. A buddy gave me 5 old planes and I’m discovering A. They were cheap when they were new, and B. The expense (and time) required to restore these is way beyond their value.

I am not a plane expert, only now discovering the joys of hand planes. I am leaning towards the Grizzly option. Not the entry level line, but their Premium line. Grizzly T33283 Premium #5 Jack Plane specifically. https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-premium-no.-5-jack-plane/t33283

Seems like a nice balance of money:value. I can’t afford and probably wouldn’t appreciate a Lie-Neilsen, but want something beyond a Home Depot Stanley.

Anyone have experience with Grizzly’s Premium plane line? I gather it is a newer offering, very little in way of hands-on reviews by someone who knows what to look for. Am I on the right track? Any better options at this price point?

Thank you!

[Jim Becker]

There are frequent postings here in the Classifieds for "already restored" decent hand planes. If you become a Contributor, you'll have access to the Classifieds as well as images and private messaging. Just click on the Donate button up near the top of the page. The ask is only six bucks a year.

To your specific question, not familiar with Grizzly's offerings; own LN, older Stanley and Veritas plus a recent purchase of Rockler's router plane. Woodcraft's Woodriver product seem decent if I can judge from the quality of the butt chisels I own, but I have not tried their planes.

[Kane Bragg]

Thank you, just hit the Donate button.

[Richard Coers]

Here is a very nice Stanley #5 on eBay, currently at $15.50 https://www.ebay.com/itm/386813904495?itmmeta=01HQPJWNMKNP4WGESE0YQ6CCCZ&hash=item5a0fe7c66f:g:yyMAAOSwtgll2~QY&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4MtGChGCgLeNpP36zO4gOpqXgIDiu unJvKxek3b2qbM%2FG8QbVKcGOJo60A4ZwfxI3%2FJ2XvAi5XZ R38G4mZNy0oMCgNZ2QQDwXE8vYOiiQ8IJQnNWzwFFG5nfOnxjj Gou12eKxoh5mzNZDd8WZTWa%2BdGUbsn%2BANb9V1%2Bn2CSRP iWsDG3yyxZx0Fz%2Fp19T5CCqfIwfCAtPpAPZJohIMP07xgVBn TefukxGSV8cmamewA66%2B3Og62z3Nn760G4kzHLv3Am7NQtfP sBkvl9gtyMMN8yEfV7wd8iKr2kc4W2ROsiU%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8 ba8tK9Yw

And a buy it now one for $50 https://www.ebay.com/itm/375280851884?itmmeta=01HQPJWNMJ5XW0HV9127B9YRTR&hash=item57607b5bac:g:MskAAOSwfYhl3nYr&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4DkWwQHLW4suNiYKCaiM65nJSKB4t CJBTjaBN9xwMBeSEahGxnmMcKEkDLvjFLdFK3CF5Rj1hVk8%2B EZlQJeTwPc9yjALL5r68PVp9vCM6iHg6Fbd6q6zboc7ECHpILm 4dYFDfv5jNwmXwvGLprzba7bLpM5vEj4M2iy34avgpd6E7XZTV NMVGinDyQ0nGyBxMeM73yyjLsCMmim8XrGTuGzgooRh37qPwSY F32lZZ%2BDrADrDMUa2DEcE3%2Byzsy6gV1jOyayqr%2FVJ629 OcfW049zAW%2BJK0VliB3j%2BkMSleTKj%7Ctkp%3ABFBMxNry 0r1j

No way would I pay more than twice the price for a Chinese import plane over a vintage Stanley.

[Robert Hayward]

I have a Woodriver plane I picked up at an estate sale that looks to have never been used. A number 5 jack plane that was made to look like the old Stanley Bedrock planes. It is a well made very good looking plane.

[Edward Weber]

Soba makes planes for lots of retailers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSnKkSDb8aw

Type "soba planes" into google and see what you get.

[Kane Bragg]

But the new Grizzly’s look so pretty… ;-)

[glenn bradley]

Prices have skewed a bit and I have not adjusted my "formula" in a while. I used to say that if what I am looking at is close to 60% of the cost of a "real" one, save some money and buy the "real" one. For example, if the <insert name here> No. 5 I was looking at was $40 and a Lie Nielsen or Veritas was $100 I would buy the <insert name here> product. If the <insert name here> product was $55 - $65 I would save my pennies and buy the LN or LV version. This method has had me send only a few odds and ends down the road. Nearly all of my choices using this "formula" are still with me and have provided years of service.

The choice between LN and LV is based on things outside this discussion. Both are very nice, lifetime tools. I can tell you from experience that buying the "real" version of anything after you have bought and tried the contender is more expensive than not taking that intermediate step. :)

[Martin Chin]

Whatever you decide, make sure you budget for sharpening supplies. And have a way to hold the wood.

[Aaron Inami]

But the new Grizzly’s look so pretty… ;-)

If you are buying a new plane, ultimately, I think it is really "you get what you pay for". Sure, the Grizzly may look pretty "new", but so do many other planes. Here's a video showing a very detailed comparison betweeen Woodriver and Qiangsheng Luban (which has been a popular cheaper Chinese plane). If you really want to watch through the video, it shows some minor differences in machining and tool quality. At this point, the Qiangsheng No. 5 is only about $30 cheaper than the WoodRiver. I suspect the Grizzly manufacturing quality is not going to be anywhere near the Woodriver. It will work for sure, but with some potential compromises.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a7IJu4hDWM
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a7IJu4hDWM)
The Lie-Nielson and Veritas used planes normally demand a premium price of about 80-85% of retail (not a huge savings, but some like to buy these). There are definitely "restored" used planes that are definitely affordable.

[Derek Cohen]

In market for first #5 hand plane. Internetting and YouTubing all the options - Stanley, WoodRiver, Lie-Nielsen, Veritas, Kunz, TayTools, Jorgensen, Quangsheng, and finally, Grizzly. I have no interest in scouring eBay or antiquing for a used option to restore. A buddy gave me 5 old planes and I’m discovering A. They were cheap when they were new, and B. The expense (and time) required to restore these is way beyond their value.

I am not a plane expert, only now discovering the joys of hand planes. I am leaning towards the Grizzly option. Not the entry level line, but their Premium line. Grizzly T33283 Premium #5 Jack Plane specifically. https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-premium-no.-5-jack-plane/t33283

Seems like a nice balance of money:value. I can’t afford and probably wouldn’t appreciate a Lie-Neilsen, but want something beyond a Home Depot Stanley.

Anyone have experience with Grizzly’s Premium plane line? I gather it is a newer offering, very little in way of hands-on reviews by someone who knows what to look for. Am I on the right track? Any better options at this price point?

Thank you!

Kane, if you are inexperienced, one plane looks like another. The issues which degrade performance are often not easily recognised, even by experienced eyes. My advise is purchase one decent plane and get to know and understand how and why it works. This will be the yardstick to judge others.

If you are starting out in the world of hand planes, a good place to begin is a #5. Stanley and Record made excellent vintage era planes, but they may still need tweaking. Search for one that has been tweaked by an experienced user. In new planes, anything less than LN, Veritas, WoodRiver and Clifton will likely be a potential problem.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Over the last 3-4 years, I have purchased 3 Wood River hand planes (a shoulder plane, low angle block plane and #4 1/2 smoother) , a 1" Veritas bench chisel, a set of Wood River bench chisels, glass stones for sharpening planes and chisels, a set of LV cabinet scrapers, a tool for sharpening the scrapers, 2 spoke shaves, 1 Veritas, 1 used Stanley, and the list is longer but my memory fails me right now. Previously I had purchased a couple cheap hand planes at local hardware stores and found them nearly useless.

I took a Rob Cosman hand plane class at the nearest Wood Craft before I began this buying spree and I had learned what a good, sharp hand plane was capable of doing.

My current project is a walnut butterfly extenison table. I was overjoyed by ease I was able to pare details on the 5" tapered feet on the 4 legs. So overjoyed, it was easy to overdo it!

As someone earlier suggested, buy one good plane. If you don't have some serious sharpening tools, stones or scary sharp, invest in one or the other. Learn to sharpen it and use it. You only flinch from buying a good tool once.

[Jimmy Harris]

Avoid the Grizzly. I looked into this once while contemplating a Jointer plane and did my research and found a whole lot of complaints about the soles not being square and general low quality. If you buy one, you'll likely have to spend a long time fettling one to get it to work right. And if you're willing to do that, just get an old Stanley, Sarge, Miller's Falls, Record, or something similar. They'll be a lot better quality and require the same or less work to get up and running. And after you've gotten it set up, you'll have a better quality plane.

If you must buy new for whatever reason, I can only recommend Lie Nielsen, Veritas, Clifton, or Wood River. Wood River will be the cheapest. I've tried a Bench Dog from Rockler, and they're garbage. Grizzly says their premium planes are made in India, which is where Rockler's planes come from (and a whole bunch of other brands on Amazon), so I bet they're made in the factory to the same terrible specs. So I wouldn't expect any better. Wood River planes are made in China, but they're made to a higher level of quality. I believe they're relabeled Quangsheng planes, which are quite nice for the price. Lie Nielsen are of course made in the USA, Veritas are made in Canada, and Clifton are made in the U.K. So that's a large reason why you pay more for them.

However, if you're dead set on buying a cheap new plane, then the Grizzly is probably the best. Not because their planes are better than the other cheap brands. You'll have the same issues with all of them. But Grizzly's customer support is better. So if you get one that's really bad, you can send it back.

[Kane Bragg]

I'm gleaning a general theme here. Maybe this goes back to my father's sage advice: Don't buy crap. (Other Kermitism: "Two things you spend money on: a good ladder, and a good pair of shoes." ...RIP Dad) So typical mission creep brings me to Wood River and Lie-Nielsen (or Clifton? - they look impressive). Hypothetical for your consideration: A $425 5-1/2 Lie-Nielsen or a $349 Rob Cosman prepped 5-1/2 Wood River? (I have a friends CA, so getting one is not an issue.) Given Glenn's 60%-Rule, I might as well buy-once/cry-once...

[Richard Coers]

Hypothetical for your consideration: A $425 5-1/2 Lie-Nielsen or a $349 Rob Cosman prepped 5-1/2 Wood River?
So you are solely buying a plane for the looks? Because a $349 custom Wood River isn't going to pull a better curl than a cleaned up $50 Stanley.

[Chris Schoenthal]

When first starting with planes, I got a couple of "well used" Stanleys, cleaned them up and watched all sorts of videos to get them tuned and sharpened.
I was still frustrated with the results I was getting and couldn't figure out why they weren't working like the ones others used.
I saw that Rob Cosman promotes WoodRiver, so I went to a Woodcraft to look at them and try them out.
Out of the box they were so much better than what I had been dealing with. I got a 5½ and a low angle block that day.
Since, I have added several more sizes and have thrown in a couple of Veritas (router, shoulder & shooting) planes that are great.
I can't speak to Lie Nielsen, but they come highly recommended by many.
I just know that I'm extremely happy with the ones I have. Your milage may vary.

[Kane Bragg]

Yes. Clearly this is what I've stated.

[Aaron Inami]

There have been posts about getting sharpening gear/stones. This is rather important because you can get a $$$ Lie-Nielson plane and even that will become somewhat useless relatively quickly if you don't re-sharpen the blade. There are a variety of stones at different prices, but I chose Shapton Glass. They are expensive, but don't require constant soak in water and you don't have the slew/mess you do with other cheaper stones. At some point, you will need to add in a diamond plate so that you can re-flatten the stone. It definitely becomes an investment. I -think- that you can probably get a pretty good sharpening on a blade if you choose a single 3000 grit stone (experts, correct me if I'm wrong). A combination of grits is definitely better. Then you need a sharpening angle jig unless you want to try "free hand sharpening".

Looking at the Rob Cosman preparation service, it seems like he is tweaking the WoodRiver to approach Lie-Nielson manufacturing quality. He does a couple things that concern me for "new plane users":

- Sharpen the blade using micro-bevels
- Applying a back-bevel (Chatsworth) to the back of the plane blade

If you don't know exactly how Rob did these angles, it could be a challenge to re-sharpen the blade when it dulls.

If you're considering the Rob Consman Prepped WoodRiver, it might just be easier to go for a Veritas #5-1/4 with a PM-V11 blade (actually $4 cheaper than the Rob Cosman Prepped #5).

[Kane Bragg]

Thank you so much, Aaron - very appreciated insight.

[Martin Chin]

Flat sole, sharp blade and solid support for the blade are the most important things. 60 or 80 grit sandpaper on a table saw wing will get an old Stanley flat fairly quickly. Sharpening is another rabbit hole. Choose what works for you. Find somewhere to try out the different sized planes. A woodcraft or a woodworking club might be best. The other reason is that those planes will be well tuned, so you will know what it "feels" like to take those thin or thick shavings. I think there is a big difference between a 5 and a 5 1/2. Try the different sizes to find what works for you, which size you like the most, before buying.

[Jimmy Harris]

Another option might be to look for an old Stanley, Miller's Falls, Record, or Sargent that's already been rehabbed, flattened, repainted, and wood refinished by someone who does this as a hobby. I see them occasionally on the big auction site. They're usually still cheaper than a new plane and you get a better made plane that will perform as good or better and look as good as a new one will after a few weeks of use for less money.

There's some truth to buy once/cry once. But it's not a hard and fast rule. Buying more than you need is still a waste of money. There's a middle ground between buying something like a $6,000 Karl Holtey bench plane and buying a $15 Central Forge bench plane from Harbor Freight.

[Richard Coers]

Flat sole, sharp blade and solid support for the blade are the most important things. 60 or 80 grit sandpaper on a table saw wing will get an old Stanley flat fairly quickly. Sharpening is another rabbit hole. Choose what works for you. Find somewhere to try out the different sized planes. A woodcraft or a woodworking club might be best. The other reason is that those planes will be well tuned, so you will know what it "feels" like to take those thin or thick shavings. I think there is a big difference between a 5 and a 5 1/2. Try the different sizes to find what works for you, which size you like the most, before buying.
OP is only concerned about how the plane looks. Advice on making it a working plane has become off topic.

[mike stenson]

A couple things.

1) If you're not sure what you're getting into, rehabbing a plane is daunting.
1a) This also includes not knowing where to start, or as importantly where to stop

2) If you're new to something, you really only have visuals to go by.

Just a thought.

Otherwise, I agree fully with what Derek had to say. I'd also be wiling to buy used from someone with a track-record of restoring planes. Although, that's a harder target to find.

[Jim Koepke]

Kane, you might consider entering your location in your profile. You may live near another member who would be willing to let you test drive some planes to make sure the #5 is the right size for you. It can also give you a feel for how a plane should perform.

Some "premium planes" might not work right out of the box. One of my planes, purchased from Lie-Nielsen, came with a note saying the lever cap screw was purposely overtightened at assembly to prevent problems in shipping. Lee Valley & Lie-Nielsen both tend to ship planes "ready to adjust and go." Though, the sometimes heavy hand of shipping can move a blade out of alignment.

Having worked on a lot of mechanical things before woodworking, tuning up an old plane wasn't a difficult task for me. For the unaccustomed, it can be overwhelming.

jtk

[Kane Bragg]

OP is only concerned about how the plane looks. Advice on making it a working plane has become off topic.
Richard, I think a room temperature IQ could interpret my comments with greater accuracy. I simply thought the Grizzly looked nice. And as I stated in my original post, “I have no interest in scouring eBay or antiquing for a used option to restore.” Most people would have taken pause before posting an eBay link had they read that.

Just toeing the waters in plane-world and seeking fellow woodworker’s wisdom. Your $15 eBay plane advice has been noted.

[Rafael Herrera]

One thing this plane has going for it is that it has an actual lever cap and not a screw cap like the Taytool planes. I don't care for screw caps, just a personal preference.

The brass lever and lever cap screw doesn't seem like a good idea since these are high wear parts.

Another plus is the O1 iron, it will require regular sharpening stones to sharpen it.

Lastly, the weight, it's a trend with modern manufacturers to make these planes with heavy castings. If you are going to use a plane like this for extended periods, a lighter plane is an asset. A vintage #5 jack plane is about 4.5lb, the page you linked to doesn't state the weight. The LN jack plane is 5.5lb and the Woodriver is 6lb, for reference.

Only one way to find out if it's what you need.

[Jay Norton]

There have been posts about getting sharpening gear/stones. This is rather important because you can get a $$$ Lie-Nielson plane and even that will become somewhat useless relatively quickly if you don't re-sharpen the blade. There are a variety of stones at different prices, but I chose Shapton Glass. They are expensive, but don't require constant soak in water and you don't have the slew/mess you do with other cheaper stones. At some point, you will need to add in a diamond plate so that you can re-flatten the stone. It definitely becomes an investment. I -think- that you can probably get a pretty good sharpening on a blade if you choose a single 3000 grit stone (experts, correct me if I'm wrong). A combination of grits is definitely better. Then you need a sharpening angle jig unless you want to try "free hand sharpening".

Looking at the Rob Cosman preparation service, it seems like he is tweaking the WoodRiver to approach Lie-Nielson manufacturing quality. He does a couple things that concern me for "new plane users":

- Sharpen the blade using micro-bevels
- Applying a back-bevel (Chatsworth) to the back of the plane blade

If you don't know exactly how Rob did these angles, it could be a challenge to re-sharpen the blade when it dulls.

If you're considering the Rob Consman Prepped WoodRiver, it might just be easier to go for a Veritas #5-1/4 with a PM-V11 blade (actually $4 cheaper than the Rob Cosman Prepped #5).


Aaron,

I agree the Cosman micro-bevels could be challenging, especially since they are likely done without a jig.

The Charlesworth ruler trick may be easier, as the new user can fairly easily establish a new back-bevel angle on such a small area on the back of the blade.

It may all be a moot point as I believe Cosman can only sell/ship WoodRiver planes in Canada.

[Eric Brown]

I looked closely at the Grizzly you linked to. Hard to tell, but it doesn't appear to be a Bedrock type design. The flat top does not mean it's a Bedrock. The Lever cap having a brass lever looks pretty but like earlier mentioned it will wear quicker. The blade adjuster has a left hand thread, which works in a logical manner. Brass adjuster knob looks like a decent size. Blade thickness and material looks ok. Some concerns you can't tell from pictures are: Sole flatness and square to the sides, smoothness of sliding parts (easier to adjust), shape of tote and knob (comfort).

I will send you a PM with an offer you should consider.

[Warren Lake]

Like to try a nice plane some day. Have my original four, 3 bought used from a friend one from my father. People have given me likely 20 planes over the years. In this case a carpenter asked me to come and pick up his fathers planes. They did lifetime of carpentry and were sitting in a garage rusting. There were 5 and he wanted them to have a home, they were free I gave him 50.00 to have something, they were far from ideal and blades worn, soles worn, never trued and heavy rust.

This six I restored was just flatten the bottom and reduce the rust. I dont care how they look. I have another 6 Bailie made in England, one of my originals. This one made in Canada has the scalloped base. They each have a different feel.

Be nice to hand this to a really good cabinetmaker like the Doucette and Wolf guy and see what he could do with it or even compare. I watched him hand plane the other day, maybe a table top, great work and he made it look effortless.

I like planes but more of a machine guy.

516233516234516235

[Lloyd McKinlay]

Don't know if the OP is still in the market for a high quality, good looking #5 but they should check classifieds if they are.

[Ron Selzer]

Don't know if the OP is still in the market for a high quality, good looking #5 but they should check classifieds if they are.

James does high quality work, if i didn't already have a 5 that one would be mine
disclosure I have a 3,4,4 1/2, 5, block plane, 3 little planes already from James. My wife has them on display they look that nice. I am supposed to be able to borrow them to use when I finally get back down in the shop.
Ron

[Eric Brown]

Don't know if the OP is still in the market for a high quality, good looking #5 but they should check classifieds if they are.

I will be sending him a plane. Millers Falls #14 (like Stanley #5). Will ship on Monday.

[John C Cox]

I totally understand the OP's concerns. Rehabbing old rust is a hobby of its own. I've done probably 8 now, counting the oddballs and block planes. Some barely need any work and some have really wonky castings. The trouble is the box of chocolates... You don't know if it's somebody's cast off pile of misfit parts or a gem until you lay the cash down... And there are no refunds once you start lapping.

I haven't specifically tried Grizzly premium planes. I can tell you that all the Wood River planes I've tried have been very good. None of them needed any work. Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley planes are also fabulous.

Any way you go, you'll need a good way to sharpen your irons.

[steven c newman]

A "before" of a Stanley No. 5 Jack plane..
516346
$5? and the "after"
516347
Appears to be a Type 14/15....
516348
Cambered iron, was leveling out a high spot ( a Knot)...


Have had a Standing offer for years: IF someone sends me a "Rusty & Krusty" plane, with postage both ways....I can rehab that plane as close to "like new" as I can....and Sharp...and that is all it costs, just the postage.

[Warren Lake]

Thats a nice restoration and shows what you can do with rusted stuff.

My rat rod works fine if can cut a .0005 shaving. Hours into that that I dont have right now but the photo shows what can be done. I have to learn more about the irons. Seems to be the weakest part of hand planes how quick they lose sharp.

[steven c newman]

BTW: I was using a Stanley No. 5-1/2, Type 11 last week....
516349
And a Type 11 No. 3

[Jim Koepke]

Seems to be the weakest part of hand planes how quick they lose sharp.

Some Stanley blades are softer than others. One way around that is to change blades.

It also depends on what kind of stock you are planing. Some woods with a high abrasive nature have dulled my blades rather quick. Some soft woods can go quite a while before the blade needs attention.

jtk

[Warren Lake]

yeah do have some different steels in some planes that is how they came the two wood long ones have better steel., I kind of thought of the metals planes have steel made from Campbell soup cans. Maybe a bit harsh. Im doing teak or woods with sand in them. I know a friend has his fathers metal planes from Latvia and I remember that a different steel was welded or brazed on. Ill have to look. I didnt try them just saw them sitting and new they were his fathers past.

The wood planes I have work well especially one and it sounds great, loud as hell. I dont like the tap to adjust thing and also find them very tall being used to metal planes and hands down low. I have one Ulmia Wood one almost new someone gave me and I cant work it worth a damn yet pick up the rat rod and it just sails.


516394 516395516396

[John C Cox]

Honestly, I had really good luck with simply replacing the cap irons with Hock units. The original Stanley irons are generally quality units.

[Warren Lake]

This guy is an excellent cabinetmaker. He should have a lot more views all considering.

At 3 minutes in he is hand planing he planes at an angle often and at times in circles and the old guy i know planed in circles at times. So the question is can you do this with planes like i have or does it need to be the higher end stuff different blade angles and all. Ive had no issues with hand planes but Ive not hand planed my work. It would not suit some of it, depends on what it is. Ive seen some rough planed stuff from Kennebec and I really the look but its got deep scallops in it compared to this. Rough looking but nice character compared to clinically perfect.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzXwmqxMbxs

[steven c newman]

The nice thing about going at an angle to the grain.....it is a slicing cut, instead of just plowing along.
516437
Stanley No. 4-1/2, type 11....

[John C Cox]

I have done that with cranky grain and hard wood where I was trying to get a thicker chip without tearout. Circles were handy when trying to knock down a high spot.

Ultimately, I made my own "Toothing" irons by grinding shallow slots into the bevel of a cheapie with a Dremel cutting wheel. Then, I would run a couple passes to "tooth" the surface. Followed up with a sharp normal iron and it let me take significantly deeper cuts in hard stuff with minimal tear out. Finished up with a fine shaving using a well set plane.

Now, I just use a drum thickness sander.

[Jimmy Harris]

This guy is an excellent cabinetmaker. He should have a lot more views all considering.

At 3 minutes in he is hand planing he planes at an angle often and at times in circles and the old guy i know planed in circles at times. So the question is can you do this with planes like i have or does it need to be the higher end stuff different blade angles and all. Ive had no issues with hand planes but Ive not hand planed my work. It would not suit some of it, depends on what it is. Ive seen some rough planed stuff from Kennebec and I really the look but its got deep scallops in it compared to this. Rough looking but nice character compared to clinically perfect.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzXwmqxMbxs

Any decent plane can go in circles. You typically do that to work a smaller area and/or get more of a slicing cut. I do it all of the time for end grain planing. There are lots of techniques to planes that you'll figure out with experience. It's not uncommon to push (or pull) your plane at an angle, to get that slicing cut that reduces tear out and generally makes things easier. The downside is you're not referencing the plane as much in the long direction, but are referencing more in the across direction. Sometimes you want that, sometimes you don't. So try it and see what happens. You'll figure out what changes and eventually when to do different techniques.

The thing with blade angles is the more shallow the angle, the easier it cuts. The downside is it also lifts the wood up further away in front of the blade. This is how you get tear out. Since tear out isn't an issue in end grain, you usually want as low of an angle as you can get, because end grain is tough to plane through anyway. With a higher blade angle, the plane becomes harder to push. However, it doesn't lift the wood as far in front of the blade, so you get less tear out. A 45° angle, standard pitch for most planes, is a good compromise between low enough to not be too hard to push, and high enough not to cause tear out in most cases, so long as you're planing with the grain. And there are other things you can do to control tear out, like taking a more shallow cut, closing the mouth of the plane (so the bed of the plane holds down the wood in front of the blade and reduces tear out), keeping your iron sharp, pushing the plane at an angle, and moving the chip breaker closer to the edge (which kind of does a similar job as a high angle blade, in that it pushes the shaving up at a higher angle and reduces the amount of separation happening in front of the blade).

Paul Sellers says the only plane you ever need is a No. 4 Stanley. And he's not wrong. But, using the right plane for the job does make the job easier. Especially for a beginner. It takes a bit of skill to plane well, and that skill it only going to come through practice and observation. So my advice is to just get started and figure it out. Just try to stay away from any dense, figured, or interlocking grained wood in the beginning. Once you've gotten good with stuff like Douglas Fir and Southern Yellow Pine, and gotten the basics of planing down, you'll be ready to up the difficulty with fancier and more expensive woods. Or start off on the expensive stuff, but give yourself time and the patience to mess up and learn.

[Warren Lake]

thanks for the response, I get how planes work and done the circles enough times. What I dont get not ever having a high plane if they are needed to do the work he is doing there take a full consistent very thin shaving from end to end. i guess I could go to lee valley one day and ask to try some planes. What type of plane is he using at 3 minutes in or what brand?

[mike stenson]

The high angle Lie Nielsen smoother? Gotta be sharp too...

[Jim Koepke]

It's not uncommon to push (or pull) your plane at an angle, to get that slicing cut that reduces tear out and generally makes things easier.

Moving a plane at an angle in effect lowers the blade angle. If you ever road a bicycle up a steep hill by going in a zig-zag route, it is easy to visualize.


Paul Sellers says the only plane you ever need is a No. 4 Stanley. And he's not wrong.

Paul Sellers says a lot. He likely hasn't gone from here:

516445

To here:

516446

Using only a #4.

jtk

[steven c newman]

I used to, using a Stanley No. 110....usually to flatten hardwood glued up panels...

Sometimes, it isn't about who made the plane....it is the HOW the planes get used.....although..some out there will blame their tools....

90% of the wood I work with is Ash....

[Rafael Herrera]

thanks for the response, I get how planes work and done the circles enough times. What I dont get not ever having a high plane if they are needed to do the work he is doing there take a full consistent very thin shaving from end to end. i guess I could go to lee valley one day and ask to try some planes. What type of plane is he using at 3 minutes in or what brand?

He's planing maple with a LN smoother. He may or may not be using a frog with a higher than 45 degrees bed. Before the chipbreaker was invented a higher iron angle was used to handle difficult grain. Since it was invented, around 1750, a double iron can handle difficult grain easily. LN sells accessory frogs with higher angles to use with their planes. Another alternative is to go to James Wright's website (https://www.woodbywright.com/shop/wedges), there you can find a kit, invented by a friend of mine, to raise the bed angle of a regular Stanley plane.

Getting continuous shavings is not just in the realm of boutique planes, high angle or not. It takes some practice, but anyone can manage that with any well setup Bailey plane. Wooden planes are also capable of this feat.

https://youtu.be/yWKvlKUYuNI

[Frederick Skelly]

Another alternative is to go to James Wright's website (https://www.woodbywright.com/shop/wedges), there you can find a kit, invented by a friend of mine, to raise the bed angle of a regular Stanley plane.

Thanks for the link. Wright has a number of interesting items for sale.

[Warren Lake]

thanks for the info, the additional plane parts look well made and priced fair will take a better look.

The hand plane thing, Honduras easy wood and too long time wise. Hes also using a wood plane and while I have them im more concerned about the metal high end planes and how much difference they really are if so. Id run that board over the jointer and if needed a hand plane effect id hand plane it. Im more interested in the you tube I linked as hes doing difficult wood and getting excellent results.

[George Yetka]

I would base choice on how much you will use it. If it wont get used very often I would look into which ebay planes to buy. Restoration isnt bad I did a very poor quality late model stanley my father had owned for fun. As a machine woodworker they dont see much use but I break them out occasionally and they are nice to use.

A #5 was my first and I bought veritas. Then a veritas block and 4 -1/2 smoother. Looking forward, and backward, I should buy affordable planes as they dont see much use and moving forward they would see less and less as they get more specialized. Both veritas and LN are beautiful and I will not listen to myself and eventually get shoulder and router planes that will sit in a drawer.

[Jim Koepke]

Sometimes, it isn't about who made the plane....it is the HOW the planes get used.....although..some out there will blame their tools....

There were some makers of planes with more knowledge on making a buck than on making a usable plane.

There were a few good makers of metallic planes in the U.S. like Stanley, Sargent, Millers Falls, Union and Ohio Tools. They also made planes for others like Keen Kutter, Winchester, Sears and other large retailers.

Though having owned a few planes by most of the makers my choice has been to mostly stay with the Stanley/Bailey planes merely for the convenience of parts availability and interchangeability.

516456

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

thanks for the info, the additional plane parts look well made and priced fair will take a better look.

The hand plane thing, Honduras easy wood and too long time wise. Hes also using a wood plane and while I have them im more concerned about the metal high end planes and how much difference they really are if so. Id run that board over the jointer and if needed a hand plane effect id hand plane it. Im more interested in the you tube I linked as hes doing difficult wood and getting excellent results.

I wouldn't call Honduras mahogany an easy wood, but that's not the topic of this thread. If you're looking for a justification to buy a premium plane, I'm not the right person to ask, I get the finish I want to the standards I set with my old planes. I haven't been persuaded to get a boutique plane yet.

This sounds like a broken record, but a plane with a chip breaker setup correctly will plane any wood, difficult or not. Will a premium plane do it out of the box, maybe, the guy in the video is using it, he may or may not have tuned it.

The video shows someone smoothing a tiger maple board, whether the results are excellent or not is hard to tell, one has to feel and look at a smoothed board to see if one didn't get any tear out. Was the board sanded or scraped afterwards? It looks like he's finishing with the smoother, so maybe not. Any well setup plane can do that.

[Jim Koepke]

If you're looking for a justification to buy a premium plane, I'm not the right person to ask, I get the finish I want to the standards I set with my old planes. I haven't been persuaded to get a boutique plane yet.

Rafael, folks like you, myself and many others have the skills (some might think it a gift) to find an old piece of secondhand rusted metal and turn it into a fine woodworking tool. Some may not have the qualities or patience it takes to undertake such a task multiple times in order to acquire a selection of woodworking tools.

Then again, some folks may admire the fine fit & finish of a brand new "boutique" plane.

I like my LN #1 plane. It has often crossed my mind that if a Stanley/Bailey #1 came my way the LN might be sold. Now days it would pay a big chunk of the cost for the Stanley version on ebay.

516459

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

Thanks Jim. I suppose it's important in all this that one needs to have the patience and interest in refurbishing old tools. I kind of sound pompous, but I feel it's more important to develop skills first. Nothing wrong with buying boutique tools, if one wants them, just buy them.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

For over 40 years I repaired equipment, first in air traffic control centers, then on fast attack submarines and the last 34 years in radiology departments in hospitals and clinics. I took up wood working to get away from repairing stuff, to relieve stress, to create stuff and to have fun. The last thing I wanted to do was rehab tools. Recently I did buy a rehabbed spokeshave.

I didn't buy new tools for display purposes.

Some people just have no desire to spend their free time rehabbing hand tools and it is not an indication of their abilities or potential abilities.

[Cameron Wood]

Thanks Jim. I suppose it's important in all this that one needs to have the patience and interest in refurbishing old tools. I kind of sound pompous, but I feel it's more important to develop skills first. Nothing wrong with buying boutique tools, if one wants them, just buy them.



IME, new tools often need as much refurbishing (furbishing?) as old ones. I have one Lie Neilsen plane (rabbeting block plane), & it was almost usable out of the box, but still needed sharpening, breaking the sharp edges and more. Others can be basically a TSO (tool shaped object) that can be made into a working tool with a fair bit of work.

[Jim Koepke]

…The last thing I wanted to do was rehab tools. Recently I did buy a rehabbed spokeshave.

I didn't buy new tools for display purposes.

Some people just have no desire to spend their free time rehabbing hand tools and it is not an indication of their abilities or potential abilities.

I can understand this point of view. In my years of working my most enjoyable occupations were taking things apart and fixing them. Though now days I'm pretty much satiated on that though a little tinkering now and then is fun.


IME, new tools often need as much refurbishing (furbishing?) as old ones. I have one Lie Neilsen plane (rabbeting block plane), & it was almost usable out of the box, but still needed sharpening, breaking the sharp edges and more. Others can be basically a TSO (tool shaped object) that can be made into a working tool with a fair bit of work.

Some TSOs are next to impossible for making into a decent, useable tool. Some can be made almost serviceable, though frustrating when used for quality work.

jtk

[Warren Lake]

its good to understand stuff. With friends who restore and build custom cars, tool and die maker friend and others ive ended up with sandblasting mig and tig welding and fair bit of finishing learned from car painters. all of that helps in the shop.
As much as the old guys knew they didnt have those skills as the shops they were in usually had a guy who made and jigged machines and modified tools. Flattening the bottom of a hand plane is easy and quick. I have record and other stuff one person gave me and they look new. They were not flat on the bottom.

[Cameron Wood]

I can understand this point of view. In my years of working my most enjoyable occupations were taking things apart and fixing them. Though now days I'm pretty much satiated on that though a little tinkering now and then is fun.



Some TSOs are next to impossible for making into a decent, useable tool. Some can be made almost serviceable, though frustrating when used for quality work.

jtk



The term comes from the bicycle world, where department store bikes are called BSOs by bike mechanics because they can hardly be tuned up to a good running condition.

It's a useful concept in other areas as well...

[Jimmy Harris]

thanks for the response, I get how planes work and done the circles enough times. What I dont get not ever having a high plane if they are needed to do the work he is doing there take a full consistent very thin shaving from end to end. i guess I could go to lee valley one day and ask to try some planes. What type of plane is he using at 3 minutes in or what brand?
Yeah, that looks like a Lie Nielson No. 4 with a high angle frog. A high angle plane would be your best bet for planing figured maple like that. The downside is, it wouldn't be a good choice for planing most other wood. It would be much harder to push and you'd have to take much thinner shavings. It's kind of a specialty tool for a specialty wood. Most people just starting out in woodworking, would be wise to avoid this type of wood. Or if you must, probably attack it with sandpaper instead of a plane. Even with the right tool, it's going to take a lot of skill to pull off.

There are other options though. You can use a standard pitch plane, like a Stanley No. 4, and put a 10° or more back bevel on the blade. That will give you the same cutting angle, and work just like the plane he has there. The downside to that is, you can't get the cap iron as close to the tip, if that becomes necessary. And you'll probably want to buy a second iron to put the back bevel into, because they're a pain to use when you don't need one, and switching out blades might be more hassle than it's worth. Plus sharpening a back bevel is a little harder. So there are some advantages to having a separate plane dedicated to this one task. But I wouldn't buy that as a first, second, or even third plane.

[Jimmy Harris]

Paul Sellers says a lot. He likely hasn't gone from here:

516445

To here:

516446

Using only a #4.

jtk

Paul Sellers doesn't recommend using only a No. 4 for everything. He just stays that a No. 4 is good enough that it could do practically anything any of the other bench planes could do. Not that it SHOULD do anything. He's got hundreds of planes and I've seen him use other planes on many, many occasions. I think he just touts the No. 4 to give beginners a starting point to feel confident in, so they'll buy one plane and focus on technique versus focusing on buying a dozen planes in the beginning. And I think that's good advice, though I would recommend the No. 5 jack plane for starting out over the No. 4.

And yeah, he says a lot. He's a grumpy old man stuck in his ways with some strong opinions. But he still knows a lot. He's a good source for information. But you shouldn't ever rely on one source for all of your information. No one's word is gospel.