Question on Byrd heads for planer

[Anthony Whitesell]

I have installed a Byrd helical cutterhead in my Jet 15" JWP-15CS. After my first hard use of it, I took out one insert to inspect the wear and edge. Today I was running the planer again. Unlike the first time, an insert broke today. I don't know if it was the insert I removed. It was on the same side of the head. But I didn't mark which one I checked.

Two questions.

1. Assuming it was the same insert, and also assuming I didn't seat it correctly, how do you tell if it is seated correctly?

2. The screw form the broken insert is trashed. It appears to be a M5-0.80x12mm flat head torx screw. I can't find any on the shelf locally. Can a hex head M5-0.80x12mm be used?

[Robert Hayward]

The only screws Byrd appears to sell are 10-32x1/2 torx plus. Are you sure yours are metric?
https://byrdtoolexperts.com/products/10-pack-of-10-32-torx-plus-screws-for-kn400-carbide-tip-install-on-shelix-heads?pr_prod_strat=jac&pr_rec_id=410129ace&pr_rec_pid=7812617994411&pr_ref_pid=7812613505195&pr_seq=uniform

[Robert Hayward]

Forgot to add a link for the proper way to install cutters on a Byrd head.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+install+cutters+on+a+byrd+head&oq=how+to+install+cutters+on+a+byrd+head&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAh AhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKAB0gEJMTQ5MTFq MGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_HoDaZdOvK_uVwbkP3KCViAY_26

[Anthony Whitesell]

Forgot to add a link for the proper way to install cutters on a Byrd head.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+install+cutters+on+a+byrd+head&oq=how+to+install+cutters+on+a+byrd+head&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAh AhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKAB0gEJMTQ5MTFq MGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_HoDaZdOvK_uVwbkP3KCViAY_26

I have the instructions. I followed them. But how does one tell if they followed them correctly?

[Anthony Whitesell]

The only screws Byrd appears to sell are 10-32x1/2 torx plus. Are you sure yours are metric?
https://byrdtoolexperts.com/products/10-pack-of-10-32-torx-plus-screws-for-kn400-carbide-tip-install-on-shelix-heads?pr_prod_strat=jac&pr_rec_id=410129ace&pr_rec_pid=7812617994411&pr_ref_pid=7812613505195&pr_seq=uniform

Could be either. the screw fits in both the 10-32 and the M5-0.80 nuts. If all they sell for replacements is 10-32 then they are probably 10-32.

[Richard Coers]

I thought all insert bolts had a special taper under the head. I sounds like you are just looking at standard bolts.

[Robert Hayward]

I thought all insert bolts had a special taper under the head.
That has been my thought also.
Anthony, hopefully you are not trying to use a different type screw head than what is required.

[Ronald Blue]

Didn't it come with some spare inserts, a driver, and maybe some screws? I will look later when I go back to the shop but I have installed two Byrd heads in the last year and a half and know that there is a driver and spare inserts but unsure about screws. One on a Powermatic PM 15 planer and the other on a Delta DJ 20 jointer.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Didn't it come with some spare inserts, a driver, and maybe some screws? I will look later when I go back to the shop but I have installed two Byrd heads in the last year and a half and know that there is a driver and spare inserts but unsure about screws. One on a Powermatic PM 15 planer and the other on a Delta DJ 20 jointer.
I thought the same thing. Instructions, driver, and inserts. No screws.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I thought all insert bolts had a special taper under the head. I sounds like you are just looking at standard bolts.
I don't understand. I am using the screws that came with the head. I never said anything about replacing any screws. If the insert that broke was the one I checked for wear after the first use, then it was reinstalled with the original screw.

On the screws having a custom taper, being that there is exactly one 10-32x1/2" flat head torx plus screw on the market, there would be no way that Grizzly could sell a 10-pack of custom taper 10-32x1/2" torx plus flat head screws for $3.95.

[Robyn Horton]

The insert screws have to be torqued to the correct number with a torque wrench that is in inch pounds or nm. On my Hammer silent power head with inserts its like 44 inch pounds for the setting.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Yep. Torqued to 45 in-lbs via torwue wrench per the included instructions. Another reason why, without any proof or evidence, the one that broke was the one I checked and likely did not seat it correctly. Which takes us back to question #1 How does one tell if the insert is seated correctly?

[Robert Mayer]

I had one on my Dewalt 735 shatter for no reason. Didnt abuse it or hit a knot/metal. I think sometimes the carbide just wasnt cast very well. That was one cracked in 2 years of very heavy use. I would guess you could over torque them and cause a crack, but I would imagine by the time you hit that level of torque the bolt would probably strip.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I had one on my Dewalt 735 shatter for no reason. Didnt abuse it or hit a knot/metal. I think sometimes the carbide just wasnt cast very well. That was one cracked in 2 years of very heavy use. I would guess you could over torque them and cause a crack, but I would imagine by the time you hit that level of torque the bolt would probably strip.
I would agree on over torque causing it to crack. I work with a lot of white pine, so knots are unavoidble (hence the change to the segmented knives). I suppose it could have failed. That is probably equally like as the one that broke is the one of the 36-38 cutters on that side of the head and this being the one I removed and reinstalled. Killing me that I don't have any screws on hand to get back to work. No one has torx plus screws on hand locally and the specs are just slightly better on the torx plus over the standard hex head. I'm not willing to take the chance with a substitute. So I will wait for them to arrive.

[John Lanciani]

Take the last insert in a row off and use that screw until the replacements arrive if you really need to get back to work.

[Earl McLain]

Take the last insert in a row off and use that screw until the replacements arrive if you really need to get back to work.

Comments like this that should be obvious things to do, and i just don't get it--make my "contributor" contribution worth every penny. I haven't been in the OP's position, but John's temporary fix is now in my memory banks. Thanks John!!

[Anthony Whitesell]

Comments like this that should be obvious things to do, and i just don't get it--make my "contributor" contribution worth every penny. I haven't been in the OP's position, but John's temporary fix is now in my memory banks. Thanks John!!
Somewhat obvious. I thought about it before it was posted. I was (am) worried about balance, throuwing the balance off with one cutter and screw missing. Doesn't seem like a lot of weight, but at that RPM, who knows. Sure the weights on you car's wheels are only slightly larger and the tire mass much larger but they are spinning as fast either. All I don't need is to make the situation worse.

[Bill Dufour]

AFAIK all insert screws are metric. What. is the designation of the inserts? Of course wood working folks seem to ignore common practice.
Bill D

[Anthony Whitesell]

AFAIK all insert screws are metric. What. is the designation of the inserts? Of course wood working folks seem to ignore common practice.
Bill D
It is a Byrd head that uses the KN400 inserts. As Robert mentioned in post #2, Byrd and Grizzly sell 10-32 replacement screws for the head. I would think they are 10-32.

[John Lanciani]

Somewhat obvious. I thought about it before it was posted. I was (am) worried about balance, throuwing the balance off with one cutter and screw missing. Doesn't seem like a lot of weight, but at that RPM, who knows. Sure the weights on you car's wheels are only slightly larger and the tire mass much larger but they are spinning as fast either. All I don't need is to make the situation worse.

I don't think there would be any real balance issue but you could always take the last insert out of every row to maintain balance if the machine showed excess vibration with one insert removed. I guess it depends on how important it is to get back to work vs. waiting for screws to arrive.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I don't think there would be any real balance issue but you could always take the last insert out of every row to maintain balance if the machine showed excess vibration with one insert removed. I guess it depends on how important it is to get back to work vs. waiting for screws to arrive.
That is also true and obvious. Didn't think of it. I would have done that too. Guess my mind was blown (a) with the broken insert and (b) the fact that it might be the one I removed and didn't put it back on correctly.

[John Lanciani]

Just a question, what specific tool are you using for torqueing the inserts? 45 in/lbs is essentially only screwdriver tight.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Just a question, what specific tool are you using for torqueing the inserts? 45 in/lbs is essentially only screwdriver tight.
I have two choices. Both 1/4" drive, a swing arm torque wrench and a break over torque wrench, both read in inch-pounds. I usually grab the latter.