More Questions about Luxury Vinyl Plank Flooring

[Pat Germain]

I did a search and found some good information here about Luxury Vinyl Plank flooring. But I still have some questions and would appreciate some advice.

Background: My house is only a few years old. It's a rancher with a basement in Colorado. The main floor has Luxury Vinyl Plank over an OSB subfloor. We have been in the house almost two years and so far we like the vinyl plank flooring. The problem is the basement. It currently has cheap, contractor-grade, wall-to-wall carpet. I could live with it for a while, but last year we had epic rainfall one night and some water got into the basement from one of the window wells. I'm pretty sure I solved this problem, but ever since the carpet got wet, my wife's cat refuses to "dump" in the litter box. She only dumps on the carpet in the area where it got wet. She never urinates on the carpet. She urinates in her cat box. Makes no sense to me, but I don't know much about cats.

First, if anyone has any suggestions for preventing a cat from dumping on carpet, I'm happy to hear it . I've tried every product I could find and none of them made any difference. So, I'm ready to rip out the carpet and install...

- Vinyl Plank Flooring. Is there a difference between "Vinyl Plank Flooring" and "Luxury Vinyl Plank Flooring", or is it just different marketing?

- My basement floor is concrete. As I said, the house is only a few years old, so I wouldn't expect the concrete floor to be too rough or uneven, but I suppose I won't know until I rip up the carpet.

- I'm currently looking at the Lifeproof brand from Home Depot. It gets good reviews online, but there are also a few comments about it not fitting together as it should. Maybe there was a bad batch because almost everyone else gives glowing reviews.

- There are multiple thicknesses of the top layer. Is it best to get 20 mil or thicker? The thinner stuff is cheaper, but I'm concerned it might not wear very well. (There is a local home builder who is notorious for installing vinyl plank flooring which is so cheap and thin it almost immediately starts peeling up.)

- Based on my initial research, it appears I'm supposed to put some type of underlayment between the concrete and the vinyl plank. But what? One video I saw showed the guy laying down a thick rubber pad followed another pad with foil layers. Is all that necessary? We are typically pretty dry here in the Colorado Springs area. Not sure if that makes a difference.

- My basement currently has a home theater area. On the opposite wall there is roughed-in plumbing where I plan to install a popcorn and coffee bar. I use the basement for movies and entertaining.

Thank you!

[Rich Engelhardt]

Try some Pooph.
It's supposed to work on skunk odor so I'm sort of thinking it should be strong enough to kill whatever it is drawing the cat to the carpet.
Since the cat has already decided to use it, it would kill the cat odor too.

[Tom M King]

I only have one experience with LVP and make no claim to be an expert on it, nor have even paid attention to all the different ones. I put down about 3,000 sq. ft. of Coretec Plus in a lake rental house a couple of years ago. Weekly renters, sometimes large crowds of them have used it for a year and a half now, including dogs and kids tracking in and out of the lake. It still looks exactly like it did when I put it down. We made the decision to use that particular one back then, and I've forgotten whatever the reasoning was, so sorry, no help with the HD one.

That house is a slab right on the ground (I didn't build it), and I only put 6 mill poly sheet down under that LVP, but that particular one has a cork backing. It is supposed to be, and has proven to be, completely waterproof.

As simple as it looks to someone used to working building things, I can see where some would have a problem with it. You do need the correct tools to work with it, and you may have to smack the beater block fairly hard, as well as develop a strategy about the order of putting it down.

[John M Wilson]

- I'm currently looking at the Lifeproof brand from Home Depot. It gets good reviews online, but there are also a few comments about it not fitting together as it should. Maybe there was a bad batch because almost everyone else gives glowing reviews.


I have installed the Lifeproof brand with good results.

I have a theory about the comments about it not fitting together easily. On my install, after days of prep work, I was eager to begin putting a few rows together so that I could see SOME progress, but it was incredibly difficult, with a lot a grunting and hammering. I told my wife "It shouldn't be this hard" and sure enough, I was going about the snap & lock process exactly backwards. It wasn't intuitive, but a few minutes staring a the instruction sheet finally got my mental lights to come on.

Once I began using the proper technique, everything fit together as it should, with both the vertical and horizontal seams mating fully. The experience with the backwards fitting wasn't entirely wasted, as I had to do a closet, & had to work from back to front. This is possible, but much more work getting them to snap just right so that the seam all but disappears.

My theory about some of the poor reviews is that folks did their entire floor using this far more difficult method, which would certainly be frustrating.

Good luck with your basement!

[Lee Schierer]

Before you get too far into this project you need to check your concrete floor for moisture. Tape a 12" x 12" square of heavy plastic or aluminum foil to the basement floor and leave it for several days. After that time pull up the tape and covering. If there is water on the foil or plastic you probably don't want to place vinyl flooring directly on the concrete.

[Tom M King]

In that rental house, it has a long hallway with bedrooms off both sides of the hall, and continues through the living area with dining room and kitchen on opposite sides of that run down the middle and around a stone chimney. I had to put down almost half of it "going backwards". Some soap up both sides of a middle piece and slide it in, but that didn't work with the Coretec plus on the long runs there, so I had to fit it around door casing going in one direction so I could hinge it down. For complicated layouts, it can require a complicated strategy.

[Pat Germain]

Try some Pooph.
It's supposed to work on skunk odor so I'm sort of thinking it should be strong enough to kill whatever it is drawing the cat to the carpet.
Since the cat has already decided to use it, it would kill the cat odor too.

Well, that's one product I have not tried. Might help in the mean time. I will give it a try.

[Pat Germain]

I have installed the Lifeproof brand with good results.

I have a theory about the comments about it not fitting together easily. On my install, after days of prep work, I was eager to begin putting a few rows together so that I could see SOME progress, but it was incredibly difficult, with a lot a grunting and hammering. I told my wife "It shouldn't be this hard" and sure eno

ugh, I was going about the snap & lock process exactly backwards. It wasn't intuitive, but a few minutes staring a the instruction sheet finally got my mental lights to come on.

Once I began using the proper technique, everything fit together as it should, with both the vertical and horizontal seams mating fully. The experience with the backwards fitting wasn't entirely wasted, as I had to do a closet, & had to work from back to front. This is possible, but much more work getting them to snap just right so that the seam all but disappears.

My theory about some of the poor reviews is that folks did their entire floor using this far more difficult method, which would certainly be frustrating.

Good luck with your basement!

Thanks. Your theory seems very plausible to me.

[Pat Germain]

Before you get too far into this project you need to check your concrete floor for moisture. Tape a 12" x 12" square of heavy plastic or aluminum foil to the basement floor and leave it for several days. After that time pull up the tape and covering. If there is water on the foil or plastic you probably don't want to place vinyl flooring directly on the concrete.

My basement is not damp at all. No need to run a dehumidifier. But I suppose it can't hurt to do that test. If there is no water below the foil after a few days, does that mean I would not require an underlayment?

[Paul F Franklin]

You are most likely going to need some kind of underlayment, but requirements vary with the flooring type and condition of the slab. I'd look up the Lifeproof install instructions and see what they recommend for installation below grade on a slab. And pay attention to the "flatness" requirements for the flooring. Basement slabs often are not really very flat and if you have humps and valleys or bumps and ridges it can wreak havoc with the snap together floors. Minor and gentle variations usually aren't a problem, but the instructions will usually say something like: floor must be flat within 1/8 inch over 6 feet.... which translates to no more than an 1/8 gap under a 6 foot level anywhere on the floor.

[Pat Germain]

You are most likely going to need some kind of underlayment, but requirements vary with the flooring type and condition of the slab. I'd look up the Lifeproof install instructions and see what they recommend for installation below grade on a slab. And pay attention to the "flatness" requirements for the flooring. Basement slabs often are not really very flat and if you have humps and valleys or bumps and ridges it can wreak havoc with the snap together floors. Minor and gentle variations usually aren't a problem, but the instructions will usually say something like: floor must be flat within 1/8 inch over 6 feet.... which translates to no more than an 1/8 gap under a 6 foot level anywhere on the floor.

Thanks.

I installed hardwood flooring in my previous house using a pneumatic stapler. Hopefully, the vinyl plank isn't more difficult than that.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I would go to a flooring store. We looked at HD and Lowe’s, and the flooring place had better selection and pricing.

[Tom M King]

I rented a concrete floor grinding machine from a local rental place to knock down some of the high spots in the pour quality slab in that rental house. Vinyl plank is some more work than stapling down wood flooring, mostly because you spend more time up and down on the floor rather than just bending over.

[Thomas McCurnin]

I'd ask the manufacturer of the vinyl flooring for its recommendation.

[Lee Schierer]

My basement is not damp at all. No need to run a dehumidifier. But I suppose it can't hurt to do that test. If there is no water below the foil after a few days, does that mean I would not require an underlayment?

It would indicate that you not as likely grow mold under the flooring. You should still follow the manufacturers recommendations for installation over concrete.

[Bob Coates]

Follow Johns suggestions above. I volunteer doing home repair and one group did not use his method and it was very hard to put down and was easy to leave seams when connection rows. When his method was followed on second home it was a piece of cake to install.

Bob

[Ole Anderson]

Over concrete I would definitely install the required taped-joint waterproof underlayment (likely foam), even if the LVT has a built in underlayment.. Any low spots can be shimmed with underlayment scraps. Plastic beater blocks work but I prefer a good hardwood one like hickory or white oak. And depending on the lock system sometimes a hammer works better than a soft mallet. And don't cheap out an your Z bar. While LVT is good and trendy, lately I have been going with stranded bamboo (from Lowe's), extremely hard and you know you are working with wood. Make sure whatever you go with had a ceramic (aluminum oxide) finish. Ten years and not a scratch on my kitchen floor. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Cali-Bamboo-Fossilized-5-in-Mocha-Bamboo-Solid-Hardwood-Flooring-19-91-sq-ft/1000000496

[Tom M King]

I don't think I'm missing any type or brand of hammer or mallet. I found this to be the ideal one for me for installing the LVP. The harder side to hit the beater blocks with, and the softer side for any direct tapping. More times than not, Estwing has the right one for the job to suit me, but I liked this one best for this job.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/VAUGHAN-24-oz-Smooth-Face-Rubber-Head-Wood-Rubber-Mallet/3333074

I had some runs over 50 feet long. It required a lot fewer steps, and up and downs, if I carried 6 rows at the time. Use your cutoff pieces from the last runs to start the next ones. I bought three of the beater blocks after starting with one and finding that I was doing a Lot of walking back and forth to get the only one.

[Curt Harms]

Over concrete I would definitely install the required taped-joint waterproof underlayment (likely foam), even if the LVT has a built in underlayment.. Any low spots can be shimmed with underlayment scraps. Plastic beater blocks work but I prefer a good hardwood one like hickory or white oak. And depending on the lock system sometimes a hammer works better than a soft mallet. And don't cheap out an your Z bar. While LVT is good and trendy, lately I have been going with stranded bamboo (from Lowe's), extremely hard and you know you are working with wood. Make sure whatever you go with had a ceramic (aluminum oxide) finish. Ten years and not a scratch on my kitchen floor. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Cali-Bamboo-Fossilized-5-in-Mocha-Bamboo-Solid-Hardwood-Flooring-19-91-sq-ft/1000000496

Absolutely on the aluminum oxide finish. We put down a Bruce wood floor on the first floor at least 10 years ago and it is unmarked. Really useful because we have long haired critters (cats). A broom is all that's required and it's very water resistant. The only downside I can think of with the ceramic finish is if it did get damaged, I'm not sure how I'd go about 'refinishing' it.

[Frank Pratt]

I layed down vinyl planks in a basement room, slab on grade. The slab has historically been dry over the past 30 years. The floor was lightly ground to remove high spots and filled the low spots with an appropriate compound. I chose to glue it down to prevent any sort of flex or bounce where there remained uneven areas. I really like how it worked out and would glue again. The planks have a resilient backing, so underlayment is not required.

[Pat Germain]

I would go to a flooring store. We looked at HD and Lowe’s, and the flooring place had better selection and pricing.

Interesting. I assumed flooring stores would have jacked up prices, but I will take a look. I heard the Mohawk vinyl plank is good stuff and I think my local Carpet Exchange carries that.

I'm wondering if I'm getting too old for a do-it-yourself install. I'd be happy to pay a team to come in, rip up the carpet, move the furniture and bang it out in a day or two. But likely any installers would say;

- "We don't remove old carpet."
- "We don't move furniture."
- "We can't get to it until August"
- "Well, we got started, but we have to leave and we'll be back in a few weeks"

Maybe I'm being cynical, but whenever I try to hire "professionals" to do something promptly and correctly, it turns out I could have done it better and faster myself.

[Cameron Wood]

I just installed (had installed) vinyl plank in the slab-on-grade cottage that I'm working on, specifically because the slab is uneven. Much of the existing vinyl tiles were left in place, and the edges and low spots feathered with patching compound. The flooring will settle into place and not make a hollow racket like engineered wood would. No underlayment.

[Tom M King]

The kitchen in that rental house had sheet vinyl flooring in the kitchen. I just put the LVP down right on top of it. I used thinset mortar to feather the edges into the rest of it, just because I had some. Works fine. I wanted no thresholds in any of the doors, so a lot of it was put down backwards. It was some harder, but not too bad once I got used to it.

We ended up buying it from a flooring store. They beat the online prices by a little bit.

[John Goodin]

Vinyl plank has been a real disrupter in the flooring market. I see it in everything from starter homes to million dollar McMansions. The only difference is the quality of the plank. It has stole market share from all other flooring types. I think it will be around for awhile.

That being said there are some vinyl plank lines with an MDF core which may be an issue if another leak occurs. We installed Titan HD on concrete which is made by Shaw and carried through Carpet One. The same product is also marketed under another name but don’t remember off hand. Anyway, it is 100 percent man made material with some type of plastic core and a rubber back. Had a leak in a bathroom and lifted up the floor and wiped it off a laid it back down. No issues. Three years old now and looks brand new. I would go for it but recommend adding a floor leveler first to prevent the hollow sound common with a floating floor.

[Warren Lake]

ive made a mahogany floor from rough and also put down some pre made. Ive had a neighbour ask me to cut his floor stuff cause the aluminum oxide was dulling his blades and he had that floor later replaced cause his dog had marked it up. I put in one clear maple floor with aluminum oxide many coat finish and it was worn out by my two elderly parents. Not impressed.

I use aluminium oxide in my sandblaster 56 grit and it works excellent

[Jason Roehl]

Another remedy for cats doing their business where they shouldn't is to put their food dish in that spot. They don't go where they eat.

[Brian Elfert]

My experience with my house built in 2001 was that they didn't make the concrete floor very level in the basement. I think they assumed everyone put carpet in the basement at the time so it didn't matter if the concrete wasn't perfect. The same concrete guys did a beautiful job on the garage slab. I had to grind the floor to make it smooth before applying epoxy coating to the floor to make it into a shop.

I don't ever recommend applying epoxy coating in a house after that experience unless you remove all of your food in the cupboards and plan to move out for a day or two. Every bit of food not in my refrigerator was ruined.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Interesting. I assumed flooring stores would have jacked up prices, but I will take a look. I heard the Mohawk vinyl plank is good stuff and I think my local Carpet Exchange.

I guess I don’t know how they would stay in business if that is the only thing they do and they do it worse than everyone else.

The kind we got has a layer of cork on the back, the some kind of hard rubber like material, and then a relatively thick surface layer.

When you look at the in the store, some will have a very thin surface layer. I bought a couple of the samples they sold and tried to scratch them up, and we went with the one we thought would hold up the best.

We were dealing with water damage and did not have a lot of time to make the decision, so maybe there are better ways to do it.

Good luck with it.

[Ole Anderson]

I put in one clear maple floor with aluminum oxide many coat finish and it was worn out by my two elderly parents. Not impressed.


Apparently there is a major difference in factory applied ceramic finish and the DIY version. UV cured in the factory I would guess. And the good ones are 30 mills thick.

[Curt Harms]

Apparently there is a major difference in factory applied ceramic finish and the DIY version. UV cured in the factory I would guess. And the good ones are 30 mills thick.

The only downside to a factory finish would be if I wanted to repair the finish. First I imagine it would take some doing to remove the factory finish then I don't know how to duplicate the factory finish without it being obvious. Maybe the best bet would be to remove the damaged pieces and replace them.