Cear alder is more exensive than soft maple

[andrew whicker]

Is this just my area? I almost ordered some alder for a paint grade project and then realized soft maple was cheaper...

Just thought it was interesting. Carry on.

[Mark Wedel]

Prices certainly ebb and flow based on various factors. For a while, the local lumberyard I used couldn't get red oak, but had S3S cherry for <$2/bf (it is now back to the more typical $4/bf).

the somewhat annoying thing is that they don't publish their prices, so I need to give them a call and check on pricing (and availability). They say this is because prices often change, but from someone that used to work in IT, it seems like they could have a web page which pulls the prices out of the back end system (like it does when making the bill of sale) to put on a web site, as well as the amount of stock they have, but I guess they don't want to invest in doing that.

[andrew whicker]

Yeah, but their "inability" to publicly display prices lets me order clear alder at $1 extra / BF.

Also, hard maple is cheaper than soft right now too.. It's almost like I should call and just say "I want to paint something.. give me your best price"




Prices certainly ebb and flow based on various factors. For a while, the local lumberyard I used couldn't get red oak, but had S3S cherry for <$2/bf (it is now back to the more typical $4/bf).

the somewhat annoying thing is that they don't publish their prices, so I need to give them a call and check on pricing (and availability). They say this is because prices often change, but from someone that used to work in IT, it seems like they could have a web page which pulls the prices out of the back end system (like it does when making the bill of sale) to put on a web site, as well as the amount of stock they have, but I guess they don't want to invest in doing that.

[Mel Fulks]

Andrew ,that is interesting. I like maple …tender and brutal. Alder is just an alderterternative. Good Job on shop shop-en !

[Greg Davidson]

You're overestimating their technical expertise and underestimating their technophobia

[andrew whicker]

You're overestimating their technical expertise and underestimating their technophobia

When I first made the acct, I made it tax exempt (furniture sales), but quickly became cabinet guy. I need to make my account taxable (which is on me). But every guy at this lumber shop is like "cool, no big deal", but this one guy there is such a PITA. He's always "sigh..... welllllll... we can't put it on the account then... I'm just gonna have to charge you full price.."

Sigh. Give people a little bit of power over someone else and it becomes a whole thing.

[Jimmy Harris]

Whenever I call my lumberyard to ask for the price, they're always like "It's somewhere around $4 to $6 a board foot". I think everyone gets a different price at that place. Even when I'm picking the lumber out, they don't know how much it costs until the cashier rings me up. It's one of those things that would make me mad, but there's not much in the way of alternatives near me, and I do believe their prices are still fair. Perhaps not great. But significantly cheaper than Rockler/Woodcraft or pretty much any other place I could buy online after shipping. And the wood is good quality. So I keep going back.

[Andrew Hughes]

I like Alder far more then maple. I think it machines better seems more stable superior grade at least. Plus the cutoffs I use in my smoker for pork ribs. I do agree with maple is denser and probably more durable.
The mountains 5 minutes north of me have Alder trees along side of the streams. It’s so nice in the spring.
Im influenced.

[andrew whicker]

I'll have to use it more often. I started getting poplar in lieu of alder but it's really too soft

[Steve Jenkins]

I can’t begin to guess how many cords of clear alder firewood I cut growing up.

[Mel Fulks]

I'll have to use it more often. I started getting poplar in lieu of alder but it's really too soft

the green poplar is harder than the white sappy stuff.

[Justin Rapp]

I'll have to use it more often. I started getting poplar in lieu of alder but it's really too soft

Alder is 590 and poplar is 540 on the Janka scale, so pretty close. I tend to use poplar for paint-grade lumber as my local hardwood dealer always has tons of it. I never looked at the price of Alder but also don't see it much on the shelves around here.

[Richard Coers]

I can't even buy alder in Central IL. Soft maple has been my favorite for decades. I prefer it to poplar.

[Mel Fulks]

Poplar has to be air dried before being kiln dried, without that , it will have to be used on small things ,like bird houses. Bought from
a good place poplar will be reasonably straight and flat . Buy only the green (color poplar) for exterior use.

[roger wiegand]

At my local place Alder is $7.25, soft maple is $7.50, and hard maple is $7.10. Poplar is $4.10 (all retail 4/4 rgh) It all seems expensive to me!

[Jim Becker]

Poplar has to be air dried before being kiln dried, without that , it will have to be used on small things ,like bird houses. Bought from
a good place poplar will be reasonably straight and flat . Buy only the green (color poplar) for exterior use.
Tulip Poplar/Yellow Poplar (magnolia family) only has the greenish tint when fresh cut. Poplar from "out west", which is a true poplar is a whole 'nuther kind of wood.

[Mel Fulks]

Tulip Poplar/Yellow Poplar (magnolia family) only has the greenish tint when fresh cut. Poplar from "out west", which is a true poplar is a whole 'nuther kind of wood.

Good arcane knowledge ! But I’ve never seen any architectural specs. that called for western poplar. They just want the stuff to be
flat and straight , and some of them have commended me for sending such “ EZ 2 youse” material ! LOT of mahogany ….is not
mahogany ‘til some use something that ‘kinda’ looks like mahogany and gets it certified by oohs and aahs !

[Mark Wedel]

The lumber industry seems a bit odd in its pricing. I can certainly understand why online stores are generally going to charge more - people would probably be unhappy if they were looking at prices and putting something together, and then when they finally do the order, find out the wood is 30% more than it was 3 days ago, so online places might be more likely to average out their wood prices or do trends.

Where as the lumberyard I use seems to have a price for each pallet of whatever, and charge based on what they paid for it, even if it is the same material. A few days back I bought some baltic birch (though given it is made in vietnam, maybe vietnamese birch, but that doesn't have quite the same ring). But the person ringing me up had to go check which rev of it was, because they apparently had 2 in stock with different prices, despite these being the same things. I've run into the same thing with hardwoods - that pile of cherry over there is $x, that other pile there is $y, despite both being 4/4 S&B S3S cherry.

At least they will honor prices - since I often call ahead, when I actually go there to get the material, the salesperson will ask if I was quoted some rate and give me that rate. I sometimes need to call ahead because depending on what they need, it might not be out this gives them time to pull a stack out vs me having to sit around a wait while they do so.

[Cameron Wood]

I don't care for alder- find it less stable & more sort of fuzzy. Maybe this is a West coast thing. Prefer poplar or soft maple.

[Simon Dupay]

Alder is a small tree, that's why the clear alder is more the 2x as expensive as Knotty alder, soft maple is a much larger tree, btw clear alder (in at least in MN) has always been $$$$ as long as I been in the industry (18+ years)

[andrew whicker]

That's crazy!

Right now, it's 3.88 for H. Maple / S. Maple for 4.11 / Alder for 5.something.

I think we luck out because we have a really good rail system that goes thru SLC.


At my local place Alder is $7.25, soft maple is $7.50, and hard maple is $7.10. Poplar is $4.10 (all retail 4/4 rgh) It all seems expensive to me!

[andrew whicker]

Alder is a small tree, that's why the clear alder is more the 2x as expensive as Knotty alder, soft maple is a much larger tree, btw clear alder (in at least in MN) has always been $$$$ as long as I been in the industry (18+ years)

Good to know. Thanks for the insight. Guess I'll never use alder then?

[Joe Calhoon]

Andrew, I just bought clear alder for $4 per Bd Ft from Intermountain. National in Denver is about the same. Seems like last time I bought it was $2.50. Nothing surprises me anymore on costs. Alder, especially knotty alder has had a long run in the mountain states and still seems popular. I don’t care much for it and always tried to steer the customers to knotty cherry when I could. I think in the North West most people there consider it a weed!

[Andrew Hughes]

Alder used to be called poor man’s cherry.

[andrew whicker]

Andrew, I just bought clear alder for $4 per Bd Ft from Intermountain. National in Denver is about the same. Seems like last time I bought it was $2.50. Nothing surprises me anymore on costs. Alder, especially knotty alder has had a long run in the mountain states and still seems popular. I don’t care much for it and always tried to steer the customers to knotty cherry when I could. I think in the North West most people there consider it a weed!

Yeah, I will have to get knotty for baseboard soon.

That's interesting on your prices. Intermountain for me was way high. Maybe because I just opened a cash account vs having a long relationship?

I have yet to buy from national

All my stuff so far is Macbeth (Indiana, Utah and Cali)

[John Kananis]

Andrew, slightly off topic. My accountant has me charge tax for cabinetry (i don't do a ton of it though). The argument is that it can be unscrewed from the walls and removed. I argued that nobody does that but he said better safe than sorry. Do you not charge tax?


When I first made the acct, I made it tax exempt (furniture sales), but quickly became cabinet guy. I need to make my account taxable (which is on me). But every guy at this lumber shop is like "cool, no big deal", but this one guy there is such a PITA. He's always "sigh..... welllllll... we can't put it on the account then... I'm just gonna have to charge you full price.."

Sigh. Give people a little bit of power over someone else and it becomes a whole thing.

[andrew whicker]

Andrew, slightly off topic. My accountant has me charge tax for cabinetry (i don't do a ton of it though). The argument is that it can be unscrewed from the walls and removed. I argued that nobody does that but he said better safe than sorry. Do you not charge tax?

That sounds like a pretty over the top argument to me. In Utah, cabinets are specifically referred to in the sales tax documents written by the state. They are excluded from sales tax as with the rest of construction.

I would call your city and ask them. They are ultimately the arbitrators.

[Joe Calhoon]

Yeah, I will have to get knotty for baseboard soon.

That's interesting on your prices. Intermountain for me was way high. Maybe because I just opened a cash account vs having a long relationship?

I have yet to buy from national

All my stuff so far is Macbeth (Indiana, Utah and Cali)

I used to buy from Macbeth they have some unique products. Way back they used to run a truck up here once a month. Not any more and too expensive to go common carrier.
Intermountain and National have been running weekly into the mountains since the 80s. To get best pricing best to stick with one or two suppliers and build a relationship.

[Curt Harms]

Alder used to be called poor man’s cherry.

But when I was trying to buy alder to match existing alder cabinetry, alder was more $ than air dried cherry. Alder is a west coast tree as I understand it, Pennsylvania has lots of cherry which at least partially explains it.

[John Kananis]

I'll do that and thanks for the input/direction.


That sounds like a pretty over the top argument to me. In Utah, cabinets are specifically referred to in the sales tax documents written by the state. They are excluded from sales tax as with the rest of construction.

I would call your city and ask them. They are ultimately the arbitrators.

[John Kananis]

Andrew, I got a little clarity on this. If I were to do the install of the cabinetry (I don't do installs) and the customer were to fill out an ST-8, then they would be tax exempt. Otherwise it's considered a retail sale... interesting how things differ from one part of the country to another.


That sounds like a pretty over the top argument to me. In Utah, cabinets are specifically referred to in the sales tax documents written by the state. They are excluded from sales tax as with the rest of construction.

I would call your city and ask them. They are ultimately the arbitrators.

[andrew whicker]

Ahhh that makes sense actually. I have so far installed everything I have built.

It makes it harder w vendor relationships to buy both tax exempt and non exempt. I also hated keeping track of how much I owed the city / state.