What happened to dome houses? Shop possibility?

[Bill Dufour]

we rented a dome mountain cabin last weekend. Built in 1977. The idea was popular around then and a little earlier. Claim was maximum interior volume for minimal heat loss/gain through exterior skin.
Lots of weird wasted corners etc. Half of it had 8' vertical walls then dome on top. The other half had vertical walls to window sill height. Seems like a shop could be built with a big span. I think the introduction of roofing trusses kind of killed the idea. Also the roof/walls are not thick enough for modern insulation levels. Looked like a lot of infill with tricky stud angles for the drywall and plywood exterior skin.
Bill D

[Malcolm McLeod]

... a dome mountain cabin ...

Still around. A neighbor (1/2mi down the mtn) is building one (sort of) right now (paused until the snow melts).

[Mel Fulks]

They did some tests and found that a domicile DID NOT have to have a dome.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

There's been a couple built a few miles west of us over the last couple decades.

[Tom M King]

I know someone who has lived in one since the 1970's. I think they were more time to build than people thought, but the main complaint I remember hearing was bad acoustics. You could here anything that made the smallest noise anywhere inside one.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

My dads group of college colleagues recently opened a time capsule that they sealed up and put away in the seventies. Buckminster Fuller was predicted to be among the "Very important people of the future" by several of the participants. One participant was living in a dome when the time capsule was created. That dome burned to the ground not long after.

[Bill Dufour]

but the main complaint I remember hearing was bad acoustics. You could here anything that made the smallest noise anywhere inside one.[/QUOTE]
Definitely noticed that in the great room. I could hear people 30 feet away better then someone 10 feet away due to bouncing sounds.
Local high school, built in 1972, had similar problems with no interior walls. Teachers built "walls" of file cabinets etc before it opened. Air handling system never worked right. Some rooms have no light switches to this day. I know one teacher who got dinged on a shelter in place drill. His "room" had no door he was supposed to take kids into room next door. That teacher was on prep during the drill and he had nowhere to take his class. Make sit a huge deal one one door key is lost. The entire building is compromised until all the doors are rekeyed. They did add some kind of radioactive lighted exit signs in the 1990's.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

The "modern" version is called a yurt. :D

I think that it would be fine for a shop, just like a quonset hut, if there was one existing, but I don't know that I'd choose that format of building for multiple reasons for a woodworking shop.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A neighbor out at the woodlot is turning a grain bin into a house. Images coming soon.

[Cameron Wood]

Coincidentally, I was just talking with a passer-by & We established that we had both lived in Norcal in the '70s. He was a dentist at the community clinic. I remembered the name of the director as I had largely built his dome home at the time. I recall that for the interior walls, every stud had a different length, and only every 2 or 3 had the same compound angle. Roofing was also tricky. It was on a ridge with a fantastic view, & I would hang out after work to watch the sunset- I even made a chair to sit in. Herbal libations may have been used....

[Jerry Bruette]

There's A school district in southern Wisconsin that has concrete domes for all of their buildings. IIRC it's a 5 dome complex.

[Mark Wedel]

A chain of century movie theaters out here had domed theaters - in that usage, it sort of makes sense - each dome basically housed one big theater - no worry about interior walls, and so on.

As OP noted, odd angles are one problem - while a circular (dome) might minimize exterior walls, if in the end you end up arranging things within that dome to be basically rectangular (of diminished size), that benefit may be lost. while a high domed ceiling might be nice (like vaulted ceilings), that is now extra space that is being heated and cooled. And most of the world just operates in right angles and straight lines - streets, property lines, etc. I imagine from a building perspective, much easier for established builders to build those rectangular buildings. I could imagine with domed buildings you get into situations like 'this window is supposed to be 18' from that door. Is that measured via the curved wall, or a straight line (chord) from the door to that point.

[Mel Fulks]

“Our Town” has an old train station with a dome , and large exterior columns. Can’t remember the name of the architect, but he was
a big deal. When I was about 5 or 6 years old the whole class rode the train to Washington DC. Now the building is a science museum.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I am still friends with and do projects for the guy who built and lived in his dome in the seventies. He still has very fond memories of those years. His marriage even survived the dome homestead ordeal.
The dome its self is a neat concept. The impracticality of turning one into a conventional(ish) house is where the problems listed above and lots of others reveal themselves. Buckminster Fuller imagined an entire building industry, redesigned from the ground up, around the concept of the dome. I just did the plumbing and wiring for the dome guys latest project. It is a lovely, conventional, stick built, rectangle, with a simple roof.

[Keegan Shields]

Here's a cool concept - 3d printed homes. Opens up a ton of possibilities like homes that don't have straight walls.

https://www.iconbuild.com/

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Here's a cool concept - 3d printed homes. Opens up a ton of possibilities like homes that don't have straight walls.

https://www.iconbuild.com/

That is cool! I can imagine those concepts working well to create the triangles for a dome.

[Wes Grass]

I looked at a dome house for sale. Ridge top, southern'ish views, beautiful.

Early spring, Santa Cruz mountains. Already too hot inside for my tastes.

Dont know if its still there after the fires. There was one I'd dream about everytime I happened to drive out that way, Cedar shake roof and siding. Gorgeous. And *gone*. Fence surrounding it had a couple little char marks on the bottom of the closest boards.

Guy right below said he just had burned leaves all over his ... comp' roof.

[Jack Frederick]

I worked on a couple in the 70’s. One was site built and a nightmare getting the angles right. Another was a kit that went together pretty well. The concept of 100% of your building being roof never caught on for me. Apologies to Buckminster Fuller but that is it. The yurts they are building today are pretty nice. The 16’ diameter yurt I lived in for 1.5 yrs deep in Upstate NY woods was rough by comparison, but we were young.

[Frederick Skelly]

A neighbor out at the woodlot is turning a grain bin into a house. Images coming soon.

Off topic but following your thought….. I was in Akron Ohio on some business and saw this. Someone converted some old Quaker Oats silos into a hotel. I understand that a local university has bought it and made it a dorm.
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[Maurice Mcmurry]

Off topic but following your thought….. I was in Akron Ohio on some business and saw this. Someone converted some old Quaker Oats silos into a hotel. I understand that a local university has bought it and made it a dorm.
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There is hope that something like this will be done with very similar looking silos in Chicago.
There is a majestic old clay silo just down the road from the grain bin house that has been the topic of many "Wouldn't that make an awesome house" conversations.

Damen Solos in the news

https://youtu.be/Vxko8iyR9fs?si=BaMEDNNaNxq8Mpvt

[Bill Dufour]

Here's a cool concept - 3d printed homes. Opens up a ton of possibilities like homes that don't have straight walls.

https://www.iconbuild.com/

I saw something about 3d printed concrete houses. I saw no steel in the build.
Bill D

[Wes Grass]

Long glass fiber seems to do well to keep concrete together. Can get a bit 'fuzzy' at places its not well compacted in to.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

There is some discussion on the web about triangle dome sections with integrated solar cells. The concept of all of the parts being the same size and shape has some appeal. I do not see good solutions for how to fit them together with out leaks or what to cover them with. The dome our friend built was covered with hand split oak shakes. It was handy that their were shingle oaks on the property. The dome guy is very proud of his froe and still likes using it even though his post-op doctors orders forbid that kind of work.

[Jim Becker]

I saw something about 3d printed concrete houses. I saw no steel in the build.
Bill D
Matt Reisinger of the Build Show on the 'Tube has visited a community that is being 3D printed with concrete. It's pretty darn interesting how the process goes and homes are really nice.

[Bill Dufour]

Cedar shake roof and siding. Gorgeous. And *gone*. Fence surrounding it had a couple little char marks on the bottom of the closest boards.

Guy right below said he just had burned leaves all over his ... comp' roof.

This is why California has basically outlawed wood shingles and shakes. They can be treated to be somewhat fire resistant but it leaches out in a few years.
I suppose areas with lots of snow will have problems of colapse at the base. I have seen several A -frame houses with the bottom rotted.
Bill D

[Maurice Mcmurry]

When the oak shake covered dome burned all that was left was the concrete filler for the PVC hubs with 3 lag bolts sticking out and the Ashley Automatic wood stove. It looked like a UFO had touched down and left behind a hundred tiny sputniks and a charred wood stove. The dome guy gave the Ashley Automatic stove to Dad. It became our shop heater.


I have pictures of the dome somewhere. I came across the obituary for the guy who owned the land that it was built on. It is long and boring but sheds some light on the philosophy and hopefulness of alternative thinkers of that era.

Tom Watson taught art at Columbia College for 40 years before retiring in 2012 and was as enmeshed in the fabric of Columbia as a person can be. Watson's family moved to town when he was about 7 and, save his time at college, he lived in Columbia the rest of his life.
Longevity and ability intersected in Watson's life here. Colleagues and loved ones noted his lasting pattern of approaching — and then practically mastering — all manner of artistic media and subject matter.This month's exhibit underlines the depth and breadth of Watson's skill through his artwork. But so does a glance at his course load. Watson taught materials and media ranging from drawing and painting to ceramics and metals; he taught a number of 3-D processes and was instrumental in establishing the school's computer art offerings, Kim Watson said. During his life, Tom Watson traveled through many of Columbia's academic institutions. After his family moved to town in 1945, it was elementary school at Grant, junior high at Jefferson, and high school at Hickman, his obituary noted.The family rooted itself in central Columbia, buying a house in the First Ward, then eventually buying the house next door; the two are separated by a shared garage Watson and his father built, Kim Watson said from what she jokingly called "the Watson compound."A point of pride for Watson was his basketball career, which included game-winning, triple-overtime free throws to secure a — rare at the time — win over Jefferson City, and earned him a scholarship to Harding University in Arkansas, where he studied art.
Watson joined the faculty of Columbia College after his father, then working in maintenance at the school, mentioned him to legendary art professor Sid Larson. Watson's memorial exhibit is on display in the gallery bearing Larson's name. "And he taught them all very well," Sleadd added. "Tom was a master of academic art and taught with strong respect for tradition, technique and process."
His favorite classes, art principles and color theory, reflected a cerebral, disciplined approach to creating, Kim Watson said. To hear her describe it, he believed in firm artistic foundations for himself and his students.
Watson applied the same hands-on ingenuity to practical matters of construction and new technologies. In the early days of personal computers, he created a software program to predict winning lottery numbers, Kim Watson said.
"He was very skilled at keeping our digital lab running," Sleadd said. "This was years ago when the college had a small technical services contingent. I would compare our digital lab at that time to Battlestar Galactica's 'Ragtag fugitive fleet.' Tom could often be seen in the design studio with a computer in pieces — either repairing it or adding additional memory."The way Watson influenced his students is as tangible a reminder of his presence as his artwork, Sleadd noted.
"By seeing the work of artists we can connect with them and their development as individuals. But one can also see, sometimes, into the heart of the community and the world," he said. "In addition to looking at Tom's skilled artwork, we should look at the artwork and lives of his students. ... He enriched the lives of many, many students."
In the artist statement for a 2012 exhibit, shared with friends and fellow retiring faculty Ed Collings and Ben Cameron, Watson linked these two roles as vital to the generational growth of artists.
"Not all artists are superstars but they are all part of the collective. I am a visual artist and part of the current collective, but I am also in a unique position ... I am a teacher," he wrote. "It is this artist/teacher combination that has generated the works you will experience in this exhibit."The exhibit will span Watson's body of work, exploring everything from 3-D pieces to the hyperrealistic style honed in his painting, no less soulful for being so specific. Gazing at the work, it's as if Watson believed getting the details just right was the ultimate expression of an artist's affection.
The show features at least two pieces the Watson family thought might be lost to time — or at least an unknown storage closet. For the exhibit, the family borrowed a 1977 "Ducks Unlimited" painting from a private collection as well as a piece that once hung in the Columbia Public Schools administration building, then moved to the district's facilities building.

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[Steve Demuth]

I worked on a couple in the 70’s. One was site built and a nightmare getting the angles right. Another was a kit that went together pretty well. The concept of 100% of your building being roof never caught on for me.

Not just 100% roof, but a roof that is more or less all plane changes. and points, and where every window is at least to some degree a skylight. All together, a nightmare to keep watertight.

[Steve Demuth]

Matt Reisinger of the Build Show on the 'Tube has visited a community that is being 3D printed with concrete. It's pretty darn interesting how the process goes and homes are really nice.

I have thought for some time that a 3D printing of fiber reinforced concrete and continuous curve domes are a pretty interesting concept in small building construction. The printed buildings I've seen so far, though don't really take this concept very far - they often have a curved wall or two, but only curved in the horizontal plane.

[Bill Dufour]

I read, years ago, that the Sydney opera house concrete sail design cost two or three times what it should have.. Rather then being a metal frame with concrete panels the designer insisted it had to be solid self supporting with no temporary frame. Even the Romans used supports to build an arch then removed the wood after the keystone was in place. Not this guy!
Designing a bridge or large home is harder. it is not just how it will hold the weight after it is all built. It includes how it will hold itself up until it gets tied together.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

I have thought for some time that a 3D printing of fiber reinforced concrete and continuous curve domes are a pretty interesting concept in small building construction. The printed buildings I've seen so far, though don't really take this concept very far - they often have a curved wall or two, but only curved in the horizontal plane.
I suspect that this is more of a case where "practical" takes precedence over "art". I personally like me a curved wall to make things interesting, but when it comes down to how folks use typical residences, it's a bit harder to pull off. It's more attractive in larger homes, however, since there's more space to "do stuff". So in other words, it's not a technology limitation. The 3D printers appear to be able do to things very creatively just like their tiny brothers and sisters can on a desktop with PLA.

[Mike Soaper]

"I suppose areas with lots of snow will have problems of collapse at the base."

It was issues with the base ring of the Antarctica south pole dome which caused the need for its replacement. Seems one year they heard a loud crack and its investigation found other ring problems caused by the settling snow/ice below it.

I was at Mcmurdo Antarctica for a bit in 74-75 when the dome was being completed. I heard then that it took longer than expected to complete because the cold caused issues with the materials fitting together correctly, I've wondered if maybe the cold caused enough prefab material shrinkage to throw the geometry off a bit. That said, bad weather and loss of an aircraft probably also slowed its construction.

The dome itself wasn't heated but was used to protect the buildings and items within from snow and wind.

a quick read U.S. South Pole Station | NSF - National Science Foundation (https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/livingsouthpole/station75.jsp#:~:text=Mechanical%20and%20weather%2 0delays%2C%20coupled%20with%20the%20crash,and%20th e%20dome%20was%20completed%20in%20mid-January%201973.)

here's a link on building it Building the Dome (southpolestation.com) (https://www.southpolestation.com/trivia/history/dome/dome1.html)

[Wes Grass]

Where did I see 'freeze/thaw' cycles pushing posts out of the ground?

[Mike Soaper]

Where did I see 'freeze/thaw' cycles pushing posts out of the ground?

Well, my guess is that freeze/thaw cycles would happen at McMurdo before it happens at the S. Pole. When I was there, some of the buildings at McMurdo were on piers/posts in the ground, not snow

A quick search came across this saying freeze/thaw on posts are an issue at McMurdo McMurdo Foundation Pre-Design Study.pdf (usap.gov) (https://future.usap.gov/core_rfp/McMurdo%20Foundation%20Pre-Design%20Study.pdf).

[Bill Dufour]

Dome we stayed in had newish vinyl plank floors. There was a soft spot about under the center peak. I assume it had leaked and rotted out floor. Probably a cheap contractor did not replace plywood subfloor or roof leaked later. The roof was also newish asphalt shingles.
BilL D

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Now that is a dome! Bucky would be so proud!

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Thanks for that Mike Soaper! What an experience that must have been!

[Mike Soaper]

You're welcome Maurice!, glad someone found it interesting.

It was definitely an experience and would go back if I could. Awesome landscapes, Scotts hut, pengiuns, seals, killer wales, colbalt blue ice/ice bergs, helping science.

Most of my time there was between Willy field skiway which was about 8 miles from McMurdo and located on an ice shelf, and the ice runway over annual sea ice. Back then, the ice runway was about 10' thick sea ice that wheeled planes like C-130's and C-141's could use early in the spring (our fall) until the ice would get too thin and begin to breakup. At that point only planes with skis would begin using Willie field which was on thick snow, over ice, over water. That Williams field was named after a guy that died when his D8 tractor fell thru the ice was a bit of a constant reminder of some of the hazards.

I never made it to the dome at the pole but did make a early flight to dome Charlie which is not a geodesic dome but a land formation at about 10,000' high on the Antarctic plateau. That day, from altitude it looked like dry ice with it's low hazy vapors, after the open field landing it looked about the same. The "vapors"/haze were just ice crystals, baby snowflakes. I don't know what the temp was there that day but remember thinking it felt a lot colder than -40 i had seen at willie field

About 2 weeks later one of our C-130's crashed at Dome Charlie while using jato during takeoff. Jato are rocket bottles strapped to the fuselage of the plane for additional thrust. One of the jato bottles broke from it's mooring and went thru one of the wings. One of the rescue planes also crashed taking off from there. Its nose ski started to bounce on the rough ice, the front ski strut broke and the plane plowed into the ice and snow.

As i understand it, later a third plane sent with a tractor and equipment to repair those planes also crashed due to a Jato issue. Eventually all of the planes were repaired enough in the field to fly out for additional repairs and go back in to service. Here's a link for those interested in those crashes and repairs Old Dome Charlie, 1974-1977 (gdargaud.net) (https://www.gdargaud.net/Antarctica/DomeCharlie.html)

apologies for going off topic

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A neighbor out at the woodlot is turning a grain bin into a house. Images coming soon.

The craftsmanship is a little sketchy but it is sort of cute.

516048

And the fantasy silo penthouse site.


https://youtu.be/egti2QzIJsc?si=LByGtWJ0LJCSaYFy

[Alan Lightstone]

You're welcome Maurice!, glad someone found it interesting.

It was definitely an experience and would go back if I could. Awesome landscapes, Scotts hut, pengiuns, seals, killer wales, colbalt blue ice/ice bergs, helping science.

Most of my time there was between Willy field skiway which was about 8 miles from McMurdo and located on an ice shelf, and the ice runway over annual sea ice. Back then, the ice runway was about 10' thick sea ice that wheeled planes like C-130's and C-141's could use early in the spring (our fall) until the ice would get too thin and begin to breakup. At that point only planes with skis would begin using Willie field which was on thick snow, over ice, over water. That Williams field was named after a guy that died when his D8 tractor fell thru the ice was a bit of a constant reminder of some of the hazards.

I never made it to the dome at the pole but did make a early flight to dome Charlie which is not a geodesic dome but a land formation at about 10,000' high on the Antarctic plateau. That day, from altitude it looked like dry ice with it's low hazy vapors, after the open field landing it looked about the same. The "vapors"/haze were just ice crystals, baby snowflakes. I don't know what the temp was there that day but remember thinking it felt a lot colder than -40 i had seen at willie field

About 2 weeks later one of our C-130's crashed at Dome Charlie while using jato during takeoff. Jato are rocket bottles strapped to the fuselage of the plane for additional thrust. One of the jato bottles broke from it's mooring and went thru one of the wings. One of the rescue planes also crashed taking off from there. Its nose ski started to bounce on the rough ice, the front ski strut broke and the plane plowed into the ice and snow.

As i understand it, later a third plane sent with a tractor and equipment to repair those planes also crashed due to a Jato issue. Eventually all of the planes were repaired enough in the field to fly out for additional repairs and go back in to service. Here's a link for those interested in those crashes and repairs Old Dome Charlie, 1974-1977 (gdargaud.net) (https://www.gdargaud.net/Antarctica/DomeCharlie.html)

apologies for going off topic
Thanks for that, Mike. I found it very interesting.
I'm still dying to go to the South Pole. Quite a number of my mentor anesthesiologists at Mass General spent time doing research in Antarctica. Warren Zapol (who basically invented ECMO which has saved countless lives, most recently during the bad COVID times) was honored with a glacier named after him. He and I published a paper describing how we (really I) saved a woman who intraoperatively had bled down to the lowest recorded red blood cell (hemoglobin) level in history and survived. Still the World's record. So quite a bit of anesthesiology research in Antarctica on hypothermia with Weddell seals. It's one of the reasons open heart surgery became possible.