Advice on setting up new shop

[Jacob McKim]

Hi all - I am finally in a position where I can start to build out a proper wood shop. I just moved into a new house and there is a dedicated room for it in the basement. All outlets are 110v and my first 2 tools will be a table saw and jointer. After that I would like to get a planer and miter saw to be able to dimension rough lumber. I have a gift card to Home Depot for $850 that may factor into my purchasing decision.


I have settled on the Grizzley 8" jointer for about $1,450. For the table saw I can either buy a used 3hp 10" cabinet saw made by JET that I am guessing is about 20 years old. Cost is $900 and I would need to hire an electrician to install a 230v outlet for about $300-$400 total cost there with the jointer is $2,750.

Or, I could order a Grizzley 2hp 10" cabinet saw 31" rip capacity new from Home depot and use the gift card. This saw is also 110V so no need for the electrician. So total for the saw & jointer is $2,050.


It looks like used miter saws and planers are plentiful on Craigslist in my area so I will most likely get those used and upgrade later if needed. So here's my question - would you rather a 20 year old saw with a bigger motor (3hp vs 2 hp) and larger rip capacity vs a brand new Grizzley for $700 less?


If I do get the used saw I would probably use my gift card to get new planer and miter saws from HD so in reality it's closer to $300 difference out of my pocket. So, I guess what I'm looking for advice on is: used saw bigger motor more capacity or new saw smaller motor and rip capacity?


Used Saw is Here (https://newjersey.craigslist.org/tls/d/new-milford-jet-3hp-table-saw-with/7714678029.html)

New Saw is Here (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Grizzly-Industrial-10-in-2-HP-120-Volt-Hybrid-Table-Saw-with-T-Shaped-Fence-G0771Z/310438324)
Jointer is Here

(https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-8-x-72-jointer-with-built-in-mobile-base/g0855)

I am also open to other suggestions. I mainly do hobby projects and a lot of work with hand tools so I am looking to get these tools to square up and dimension the lumber to be worked further with hand tools. Thanks,

[Michael Burnside]

I have a 3HP, 240V saw, and while nice, is not necessary, especially if you're just starting out. At some point 240V in the shop would be nice, so I would personally plan on that cost at some time in the future.

I don't have any experience with Grizzly tools, but a lot of creekers here do and speak highly of them. I'm sure you'll get responses to that.

The only other item you're missing, which IMHO, is the most important tool. Dust collection. Especially in a basement, I would get a HEPA certified cyclone. This is one tool I would never cheap out on. I can highly recommend Oneida, cannot speak to others, but make sure it's HEPA certified. Specifically I think this is a great model and I've used personally. I have a bigger Oneida and it too is awesome.

https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/personal-shops/mini-gorilla

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to the party!

SO...let's talk first tools. Table saw. Absolutely. Jointer...IMHO, not before you have a thickness planer. The latter is going to be more useful and can be used to flatten a face of rough lumber using a sled. Edges can be done with a hand plane until you can add the jointer for that and flattening. You cannot "thickness" material on a jointer which is why I'm making the suggestion I have.

[Jacob McKim]

Thanks guys for the responses. One thing I just realized after someone on Reddit pointed this out is the jointer I picked out is also 230V. So I guess either way I will get the 230v added.

Michael - good call on the dust collection - I do have a shop vac that I planned to use until I get a proper system installed - I haven't even started pricing those out yet though.

Jim - Thanks! I definitely plan on getting all 4 tools up front - Jointer to flatten 1 side & 1 face, thickness planer to parallel the opposite face, table saw to rip the opposite side and the miter saw to chop the ends to 90 degree. At least that's my plan. I've spent several years doing it all by hand with my hand planes and while I love working with hand tools, I have decided squaring up rough lumber is work best suited for the machines.

[Michael Burnside]

Jacob, keep in mind a shop vac cannot move the volume of air you require for the table saw you’ve got planned.

If I were starting out I’d get
-table saw (good reviews and with great fence)
-Dewalt 735 planer (maybe find used)
-very good dust collector like the one I linked

You can joint on a table saw with a jig.

[William Hodge]

What tools you need depends on what you are making. On the other hand, it can be fun to set up a shop.
What are you making?

[Brian Runau]

If you plan permanent dust collection you need to run ducting, plan drops, gates, hose, etc... do you plan to build chop saw station with cabinet storage as a base? I started with table saw and dust collection, installed ductwork and built chop saw cabinets out of plywood. Added dewalt planner and grizzly 8" jointer. Built dead flat assembly table with storage underneath. Gave me practice building cabinets. Have fun. Brian

[Terry Therneau]

Most 230 volt motors can be reset to 115 volt. Look at the motor plate and see if it states both voltages.

[Carroll Courtney]

Since you’re open to used, I have seen Unisaw and Powermatic 66 around 500.00 or less. Problem is you can’t drag your feet when you see theses on places like CL. But whatever saw you choose, a good rip fence is also needed. Outfeed table with cabinet underneath the table. You can daydream for days about building your Outfeed table, as your first project

[Justin Rapp]

Thanks guys for the responses. One thing I just realized after someone on Reddit pointed this out is the jointer I picked out is also 230V. So I guess either way I will get the 230v added.

Michael - good call on the dust collection - I do have a shop vac that I planned to use until I get a proper system installed - I haven't even started pricing those out yet though.

Jim - Thanks! I definitely plan on getting all 4 tools up front - Jointer to flatten 1 side & 1 face, thickness planer to parallel the opposite face, table saw to rip the opposite side and the miter saw to chop the ends to 90 degree. At least that's my plan. I've spent several years doing it all by hand with my hand planes and while I love working with hand tools, I have decided squaring up rough lumber is work best suited for the machines.


Jacob,

Welcome to Sawmill Creek, and to building out your shop.

I agree 100% with Jim that a jointer is a 2nd purchase after the planner. I don't know what you plan to build but the Dewalt 735 is about the best planer you get your hands on for under $1000. Next step up you are jumping to the big machines in the multi-thousand dollar range unless you find one used.

Michael also makes a very valid point regarding dust collection. Take your shop vac and use it for it's purpose, a vacuum. It is not going to be able to move the amount of air required for any of the larger tools and your shop, lungs and house will fill with dust. Second to the dust collector, which doesn't get everything, an air filter is secondary in a basement to help get the fine air born dust. I have a 3hp dust collector ducted to my tools and I still get a layer of fine dust collected on my air filter. Pending the size of your shop depends on how much CFM's the unit you buy will need.

When it comes to a table saw, I am a big advocate of SawStop. I know it's a tough cost to swallow over the models you are looking at, however one accident and you'll wish you spent the money. A lot of people use the 1.75 110v model and say it's got plenty of power. But that comes back to getting a 220v circuit in your shop, or a few. Adding a circuit is not that hard honestly, but if you have 1 ounce of concern doing your own work, 100% hire a licensed electrician!

One thing many people will tell your shop with safety in mind first. Fingers, lungs, kickback (old saws usually are missing riving knives), electrical safety, etc., Second, if you need to wait to save to get a better quality tool or something with more safety features, it's worth the wait. For 1, upgrading later is more costly in the end, and selling off old equipment can be a royal pain, in time, effort and in your pocket.

I know a lot of us are throwing a ton of expensive options at you, however most of us have been through this going through the 'upgrade' path. I am 100% a victim of this. I am on my 3rd table saw, 2nd jointer (and want a bigger), 2nd dust collector and 2nd router table, not to mention upgrades in clamps, hand tools, and things like sanders. Live and learn - but I can honestly say i would not have bought 3 palm sanders that are not in the trash or in a cabinet if I bought a festool sander first. Now I spent twice what 1 festool sander cost! I am not in the mindset of the term 'buy once cry once' It saves crying 5 times more later when you sell tools for 1/2 the cost or toss them when they fail.

[Brian Holcombe]

If you are near to Nj I have a spare dust collector that you can have. It’s a jet 1hp, decent for picking up chips at the jointer/planer.

[Ron Selzer]

Buy a air filter than can run all the time if needed. This is to protect your family and your lungs. The fine dust that you can't see is what hurts you not the large pieces that you see and think are bad. A dust collector unless it has a really good filter will catch all the large pieces and put the small dust in the air. Your furnace then circulates this fine dust thru the house and damages your family. Wearing a mask in the shop ONLY protects you. You can sweep the large dust pieces up easily. Sanding dust and other dust that is light enough to float in the air needs removed first.
Air filter first, then table saw, jointer, planer then dust collector.
Justin said a lot of valid information .
Good luck
Ron

If you are close to central Ohio I will give you a 1hp dust collector, needs a new bottom bag
Home Depot has four listed Search Results for hanging air cleaner at The Home Depot (https://www.homedepot.com/s/hanging%20air%20cleaner?NCNI-5)

[Mark Wedel]

Even a relatively cheap dust collector is likely to be a huge step up from a shop vac. I've been using a harbor freight dust collector for years and it does a fine (but not) great job - certainly good enough to suck up the dust from the tablesaw, planer, etc, but the 5 micron bag is less than ideal. But my workshop is also my garage, and most of the year I can operate with the garage door open so can get decent airflow. I agree with others - for a basement shop, you are really going to want good just collection, or maybe invest some effort to try to make it more air tight (plastic on ceiling/walls, sealing the door well, etc).

I have a 120 volt sawstop, and for most work, it is plenty powerful. If you were sawing a lot of thicker (2") material, you might want the extra power. My understanding is that this 1.75 HP (I think) will be able to get through most any material, but the feed rate would be slower vs a more powerful saw. For a home hobbyist, this likely isn't an issue - for a pro shop doing a lot of sawing, that slow feed rate can translate directly into lower productivity/less profit, so more reason for such shops to have high power machinery.

I keep meaning to hire someone to add a subpanel to my garage so that it will have 220, but I've gone without it so far. One thing to keep in mind is how many circuits you do have - the dust collector will basically need to be on its own circuit - running the DC + tablesaw/planer/jointer will almost certainly trip the circuit breaker if on the same circuit. Most of those tools draw enough power you may need to be careful on what else is on the same circuit (lights/lower power stuff isn't an issue, but if for example the basement shares a circuit with the kitchen where there is a microwave or toaster or other high wattage appliance, you could be in for an unpleasant surprise if someone decides to reheat a burrito in the microwave while you are using your tablesaw. But if you live alone, you can basically know that isn't a risk you will run into)

[Jacob McKim]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts so far. I really haven't put much thought into dust collection but clearly I should put some more thought into it. I think what I will do is have the electrician come in and add a circuit for dust collection, (2) 230V outlets, and then, leave the rest 110. From there I really have to just decide if I want to go used vs new.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts so far. I really haven't put much thought into dust collection but clearly I should put some more thought into it. I think what I will do is have the electrician come in and add a circuit for dust collection, (2) 230V outlets, and then, leave the rest 110. From there I really have to just decide if I want to go used vs new.
Installing two 240v circuits is a good idea because the DC should be on a dedicated circuit while the other tools can share one circuit. You do have to consider power requirements. While most things along the lines of what you are buying will require a 20 amp circuit, I'll suggest you have the electrician use 10 gauge cable so you have the ability to support 30 amps if you end up with a larger, more powerful tool. My primary machine circuit in my shop is 30 amps because it will handle any of my tools and I standardized on 30 amp terminations for everything, too. (twist locks in my case, even though they are more pricey) Shops evolve so if you plan on living where you do for sometime into the future, plan for "whatever". You never know when you might take advantage of a good deal on a larger machine that requires more juice.

[Justin Rapp]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts so far. I really haven't put much thought into dust collection but clearly I should put some more thought into it. I think what I will do is have the electrician come in and add a circuit for dust collection, (2) 230V outlets, and then, leave the rest 110. From there I really have to just decide if I want to go used vs new.

Having 2 a good idea, but you can always share 1 outlet between two machines if you are a one-person shop. Also you can re-wire machines with longer cords to reach, or use the proper extension cord per manufactures requirements. For example, I share 1 outlet between my table saw and my bandsaw, however the tablesaw is not near the outlet. Sawstop provides extension cord requirements and says at 0-50 feet use 14 gauge, however I went to a 12 gauge anyway.

So pending the cost and locations of the machine, you can get away with 1 230v for your machines and 1 on a separate circuit for dust collection.

[Myles Moran]

Are the 120V outlets you currently have on a 15A or 20A circuit. I've got 2 120V circuits and 1 240V circuit in my shop, everything at 20A. It's been good enough for running a harbor freight dust collector with the big tools on 240V, or the dust collector with small tools on separate circuits. There are some pretty good dust collectors available that can run on 120V, but you'll want to make sure it's a 20A circuit. Even though some of them come with a standard 5-15 plug, they might not play well with a 15A circuit. If you're having an electrician add a 240V circuit I would make sure your 120V is 20A too.

[Ernie Hobbs]

Lots of good advice here. I've moved a bunch, so I have built/furnished 6 shops over the years, so I have thought about this a few times. I can add my 2 cents: If I were starting out from scratch, first, look to the used market. There a lot of good old stuff out there. This is the order I'd go: Band saw, table saw, planer, then dust collector (because the planer will generate a ton of problems without DC), then Jointer, Lathe, miter saw, etc. Regarding the jointer, is the 8" absolutely necessary? I can do everything I need with a 6" jointer and I've been doing this for 30+ years. Also, get good hand tools- but not necessarily expensive ones. Look to estate sales or the used market. Nobody learns hand tools anymore, so you can find them cheap. But, if you learn how to use hand tools properly, you'll always be able to complete a job. A machine just makes it faster and easier, but not better.

Check your power. The wiring in your basement may not be able to support 110v equipment. If it isn't at least a 12ga wire, you might have a problem. However, as long as you only have one tool operating at a time, you should be ok. Make sure your lights and your tools are on a different circuit, so if your breaker trips while using a saw, you won't be in the dark with a spinning blade. I'd actually encourage you to have two different circuits for lights so if one goes out, the other will be still on.

[jack duren]

Starts with the electrical panel. Personal shop I usually doesn’t need more than 100amp service..

if your doing cabinetry, there is a break down of tools. If your doing furniture , there is a breakpoint down of tools., If your doing both. You’ll need to combine.

A lot of shops are thrown together because it looks kool, but don’t function well.

[Aaron Inami]

One thing on 120V outlets. Like others have said, 120V outlets in residential can commonly be 15A circuits running 12 gauge romex. In addition, house wiring outlets are usually shared on one circuit. Your "basement" electrical could potentially all be on one 15A circuit. This means that you can not really use more than one tool at a time (including the dust collector). Be aware that a 120V planer will typically use up an entire 20A circuit (15A is just not enough). In addition, any 120V machine that is 2HP will require a larger 20A circuit. It is just too much for a 15A circuit and the breaker will pop all the time.

If you really wanted to have a future evolution basement woodshop, I would start with electrical. Rather than running a single 240V circuit, why not have a large branch breaker on your main service panel and put in a subpanel in your basement. That would allow you to install multiple 120V and 240V outlets at any future time without having to re-run electrical wire from your main panel.

[Justin Rapp]

One thing on 120V outlets. Like others have said, 120V outlets in residential can commonly be 15A circuits running 12 gauge romex. In addition, house wiring outlets are usually shared on one circuit. Your "basement" electrical could potentially all be on one 15A circuit. This means that you can not really use more than one tool at a time (including the dust collector). Be aware that a 120V planer will typically use up an entire 20A circuit (15A is just not enough). In addition, any 120V machine that is 2HP will require a larger 20A circuit. It is just too much for a 15A circuit and the breaker will pop all the time.

If you really wanted to have a future evolution basement woodshop, I would start with electrical. Rather than running a single 240V circuit, why not have a large branch breaker on your main service panel and put in a subpanel in your basement. That would allow you to install multiple 120V and 240V outlets at any future time without having to re-run electrical wire from your main panel.

Most 15A circuits are run with 14 guage and 20A circuits run with 12 gauge in every home i've seen, and it's been a lot over the years. It's very rare for the electrician to run 12 gauge on a 15A circuit due to the added cost. At least here in New Jersey.

[jack duren]

I found the three most important things were. Power, air compressor and dust collection. Everything else fills in..

[Ron Selzer]

"If you really wanted to have a future evolution basement woodshop, I would start with electrical. Rather than running a single 240V circuit, why not have a large branch breaker on your main service panel and put in a subpanel in your basement. That would allow you to install multiple 120V and 240V outlets at any future time without having to re-run electrical wire from your main panel."

Wish I would have done my shop this way. The garage is done this way, 50amp 8 circuit subpanel. The A/C was changed over to 90 amp subpanel when hot tub was added. Basement was wired early on, drywall ceiling added after, The main panel was in sight with 30' longest run, so run all individual circuits, now panel is full, had to go to twin breakers to get space for all the circuits. Some 120vac circuits are now 240vac and still not enough of them. Unplugging tools too often to plug other tool in.
Same amount of load just wanted separate circuits for tools. Should have installed a 100 amp subpanel in shop and fed everything but lights. Then one breaker to turn off and all the shop is dead.
Old enough now probably will not change it over to a sub panel in the shop.
Ron

eat the cost now, cry about price and be ready for rest of your life

[John Kananis]

I'm in agreement with a few of the others here. Spend your money on a subpanel, outlets, LIGHTS (these are often an afterthought), dust collection with ducting. Grab some hand tools to start and accumulate machines 1 at a time - don't skimp or settle here, take your time. Too many of us have upgraded equipment many times over thinking, this is all I need.

[Mark Wedel]

One thing I would add about tools, is you can acquire them as needed - you don't need to fully outfit a shop if you don't have need for some tools. Figure out your first projects, and figure out the tools from there.

For my first several projects, I was able to live without a planer or jointer - I was doing shallow display cases, so was buying s4s lumber at home depot (ok, not best choice there), so only needed a table saw to cut to width and chop saw to cut to length. I eventually moved to some other projects that required the jointer and planer. I had a fairly basic/small tablesaw for quite a while (free from a neighbor), and that worked fine - I eventually updated to a sawstop, partly for the safety, but partly because I wanted to build cabinets for my garage and wanted something with a larger table to make that easier. But I probably lived with that more basic tablesaw for 10 years.

You may eventually have a fully equipped shop, but just doing the woodworking will give you a better idea of what tools you may need, what features you want, etc. Thinking back, if someone gave me a bunch of money as a gift to outfit my shop 15 years ago, I probably would have made some poor choices there. In fact, even buying as needed, there are a few tools where I bought a fairly basic version, only to buy a better version later on and sell the basic one.

[John Kananis]

Something else I didn't mention above, getting a bunch of machines all at once is way, way more expensive than initial sticker price. Accessories, blades, ducting, etc, etc adds up quickly. Last tool I added was a lathe. Sticker was 3k... I've easily spent nine or ten thousand total so far (on turning) and there's still a ton or there that I want to get my hands on, chucks, chisels, etc.

[James Jayko]

I feel like the 110v saw is fine, but I'd budget for appropriate blades for rip, cross cut etc. I feel like you can get by with a combination blade on a higher powered saw, but on a 110v, I'd get a good dedicated rip blade. I started with a 1 3/4 hp, 110v Delta hybrid saw, and with the right blades, it was much more capable than with the combination.

[jack duren]

Straight for the tools, before the shop. Cart before the horse.. I tried a 50 amp in my shop. What a waste..

[Warren Lake]

james is accurate on the blade info. I wont use less than 3hp 220 and there is well more resistance on a combo blade than rip. Id get a 8" jointer as well. You can work without dust collection but you cant work without machines. I bought five machines when I started and saved enough that the six one came free. All were general and just went ot several dealers for pricing of that quantity. One dealer cheaper, smarter and delivered them for free. Different time.

[jack duren]

You can work without dust collection, but why? I don’t have a jointer. Your correct on the saw for sizing, but unless your making money with your tools why work backwards..

When I was setting up my shop , I wasn’t in a hurry, till I went in business for myself and had to slap my shop together to pay bills. I regret the mess, but had to work first. There is no way I’m pulling all this out to remodel now..

[Justin Rapp]

james is accurate on the blade info. I wont use less than 3hp 220 and there is well more resistance on a combo blade than rip. Id get a 8" jointer as well. You can work without dust collection but you cant work without machines. I bought five machines when I started and saved enough that the six one came free. All were general and just went ot several dealers for pricing of that quantity. One dealer cheaper, smarter and delivered them for free. Different time.

Well this is some kind of reverse thinking. Work without dust collection? With what we know now about health and safety, why would you do this? The first two tools you buy is a sizable dust collector that will do everything you need in the future + your first primary tool, be it a table saw, band saw, etc. Most shops that are not someone's first rodeo is dust collection first, lay out your shop with the tools you want, and start to plumb in ducting, or at least stub out for the final run to the tool once it's in place. So, people come to these discussions for advise because we've done it before. Do it right, do it once and learn from other's mistakes.

[Michael Burnside]

james is accurate on the blade info. I wont use less than 3hp 220 and there is well more resistance on a combo blade than rip. Id get a 8" jointer as well. You can work without dust collection but you cant work without machines. I bought five machines when I started and saved enough that the six one came free. All were general and just went ot several dealers for pricing of that quantity. One dealer cheaper, smarter and delivered them for free. Different time.

IMHO, you cannot, unless you don't care about your health. In particular, given the OP is working in a basement, this would be absurdly reckless for their family to consider dust collection anything other that the absolute most important tool purchased.

[jack duren]

Reminds me of youngsters. Gotta have those shinny rims before, interior, paint or an engine..

Or was it the stereo first, been awhile..

[Warren Lake]

ive done it over 40 years but just me. Not one of the old guys I knew had proper dust collection in their shop and they made a living as well. Ive had it set up partly, this shop doesnt lend itself well as several machine rooms. Next place ive got tons of pipe and fan etc and can be set up there. have a lot of machines. Likely wont use the fan I have Poitras and go with something modern. I have a mickey mouse dust collector on the SCM table saw but past not on the Generals filled them up enough times that they would not tilt.

[Holmes Anderson]

This thread reminded me of milling white oak flooring without a functioning DC system years ago. The air was so thick with dust that I couldn't see across the shop. When the chips pilled up knee-high I used a snow shovel and wheel barrow to move them out the door. TS, miter saw, bandsaw, and jointer aren't too bad without DC but the planer and the shaper just generate too much dust and chips for an indoor shop. Better to get a cheap used DC blower and vent it right out the window if you don't want to spend the money on separators and filters.

[jack duren]

I’ve doing it since 1983. That’s how many years? Too tired to count.I was trained by old guys..Wait … Im an old guy now.:mad:

Wait…. My wife often tells me to grow up. So I must be 9…:D

[Myles Moran]

IMHO, you cannot, unless you don't care about your health. In particular, given the OP is working in a basement, this would be absurdly reckless for their family to consider dust collection anything other that the absolute most important tool purchased.

I assumed my shopvac could keep up with my new jointer and planer in my basement the way it did well enough in a garage with a tablesaw (the shops I kept clean with a leaf blower). I want to say it took me all of 30 minutes using the new tools before calling it a day and buying a dust collector. Very important in a basement, especially with a high quality filter (and potentially an air filter on top of the dust collector) to keep the mess at bay.

[Justin Rapp]

Jacob,

Welcome to Sawmill Creek, and to building out your shop.

I agree 100% with Jim that a jointer is a 2nd purchase after the planner. I don't know what you plan to build but the Dewalt 735 is about the best planer you get your hands on for under $1000. Next step up you are jumping to the big machines in the multi-thousand dollar range unless you find one used.

Michael also makes a very valid point regarding dust collection. Take your shop vac and use it for it's purpose, a vacuum. It is not going to be able to move the amount of air required for any of the larger tools and your shop, lungs and house will fill with dust. Second to the dust collector, which doesn't get everything, an air filter is secondary in a basement to help get the fine air born dust. I have a 3hp dust collector ducted to my tools and I still get a layer of fine dust collected on my air filter. Pending the size of your shop depends on how much CFM's the unit you buy will need.

When it comes to a table saw, I am a big advocate of SawStop. I know it's a tough cost to swallow over the models you are looking at, however one accident and you'll wish you spent the money. A lot of people use the 1.75 110v model and say it's got plenty of power. But that comes back to getting a 220v circuit in your shop, or a few. Adding a circuit is not that hard honestly, but if you have 1 ounce of concern doing your own work, 100% hire a licensed electrician!

One thing many people will tell your shop with safety in mind first. Fingers, lungs, kickback (old saws usually are missing riving knives), electrical safety, etc., Second, if you need to wait to save to get a better quality tool or something with more safety features, it's worth the wait. For 1, upgrading later is more costly in the end, and selling off old equipment can be a royal pain, in time, effort and in your pocket.

I know a lot of us are throwing a ton of expensive options at you, however most of us have been through this going through the 'upgrade' path. I am 100% a victim of this. I am on my 3rd table saw, 2nd jointer (and want a bigger), 2nd dust collector and 2nd router table, not to mention upgrades in clamps, hand tools, and things like sanders. Live and learn - but I can honestly say i would not have bought 3 palm sanders that are not in the trash or in a cabinet if I bought a festool sander first. Now I spent twice what 1 festool sander cost! I am not in the mindset of the term 'buy once cry once' It saves crying 5 times more later when you sell tools for 1/2 the cost or toss them when they fail.


I hate that I can't edit a few days later. "...now in the mindset" and 'Now" some palm sanders are in the trash. Now does not equal 'Not' :)