Roofing valley

[jack duren]

I’ll ask and see if anybody knows. I want to use W-metal on my roof and there are two different pitches on my roof.so instead of the W-metal going all the way up , it angles in a different direction.

Not sure if we have any roofers on board. Can’t find and pictures or videos. I’m lost on this one..
https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwiMuvjbtZ6EAxXKQkcBHTpoBAcYABAEGgJxdQ&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjLr427WehAMVykJHAR06aAQHEAQYASAB EgJIYfD_BwE&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAASJeRo936DWhtJXGvUGYEF0bQAgDjUOEJzkR6HmZyGla 0QwdprNPI&sig=AOD64_2vaZRmtKtY6lkDmOD3VhpcJNOgMg&ctype=46&q=&ved=2ahUKEwj-qfHbtZ6EAxUsjIkEHeScBhYQ5bgDKAB6BAgDEAc&adurl=

[Cameron Wood]

One just lays on top of the other. Part of the standing middle has to be folded down, and the upper and probably one side edge of the lower piece folded back on itself to keep water from going sideways. Also ice shield under the whole valley.

What pitch and shingles?

[Andrew Hughes]

I’m a roofer. It nearly impossible to discuss a Valley metal detail without seeing it.
A general rule is at a minimum you want 3 inch over lap. Make relief cuts in the lower piece to get the crown of the metal folded flat. No fasteners in the water way. no screws. No nails or staples nothing. Take your time to get over lapping pieces laying flat. You probably will have to do it two or three times. Just cut it off and do it again.
With shingles 18 inch wide valley metal is all you should need. The wider stuff is for tile roofs.
Good Luck

[jack duren]

I got up there and took pictures..

[jack duren]

My first thought was to beat it down and overlay it, but I couldn’t find a youtube or any pictures of it, so it concerned me..

[Maurice Mcmurry]

This video may help...

https://youtu.be/EZY_sIJogyE?si=P1ZdbahlF5MA9fuu
515297

[Cameron Wood]

No benefit with comp shingles except for steep pitch, IMO, but if you do, make sure to clip the shingle corners.

[jack duren]

The metal will outlast my shingles

I can tell you right now, that almost every roof was in my neighborhood was done as cheap as it was bid. I’m hoping to upgrade some of the work underneath the shingles..

[Tom M King]

If the shingles are going to be three tab like what is up there now, I'd just lace the shingles.

What you're talking about doing with the valley and slope change is very similar to one I did with a standing seam roof. That roof had two intersecting gambles, a slope change shed roof between intersecting gambrels, and a bunch of dormers. It had a slope change in a 32' long valley at the bottom of one of the gambrel planes.

If one side of the roof at the slope change in the valley drops more water on one side than the other, I would not want to use a metal valley there. I'd like the way it's done now better.

[Cameron Wood]

No it won't. The house directly across the street from me has a standing seam valley- I think 8/12 pitch.

The roof is maybe 25 years old, the shingles worn and the valley metal is rusty.

When it is re-roofed, the metal will certainly be removed, and probably not replaced.

You can't add another layer of shingles over (not that I would generally do that).

[Andrew Hughes]

I got up there and took pictures..

Thats called a dog leg. Your thoughts about overlaying of over lapping is correct. It’s looks high up on the roof so it shouldn’t be much of a problem. Leave about 1 1/2 inches open on both sides of the crown for water to flow. If it were down lower it might need a bigger gap or something different. That high up it will be fine.
cut the tops of your shingles that sit in the valley so they buck the water back towards the crown. If you leave them pointy they sometimes direct water under the shingles and off the metal.
Good Luck

[jack duren]

Roofing is choice. Color, metal , one metal showing. It’s all choice. My roof is getting metal. I’m not oing back with tab roof. The house across the street and mine are three tab. My neighbor last year had someone come out to give a bid. While the roofer was there ai asked him bout Ice shield.I don’t think my neighbor liked the price of a new roof, cause he didn’t get it done.

My boy will help with the tear off. I’ve done three tab roofs before and me and the boy can learn to roof this one together.

[Tom M King]

Are you saying the whole roof will be metal? I have a lot of experience with metal roofing. I have a how-to on standing seam roofing on another forums that I can link. I have it on part of our house and even our chicken coop. I used to fix exposed fastener roofs but quit doing it, and still get calls all the time from people wanting me to find and fix a leak on fairly new such roofs. I have exposed fastener roofs on some of the buildings here, but will never again put one on anything.

[jack duren]

Roofing valleys will be metal..

[Tom M King]

When I did the slope change valley on that complicated standing seam roof, I had the metal folded to my design, but I didn't use the raised V in it. It was a lot easier to make a good transition without that in there.

[jack duren]

I’m going to try and get up there and blow the leaves out the gutter. Easier to find nails in there without the wet leaves

[jack duren]

I had convinced myself to use a galvanized ring shank nail, but there’s only one place that sells them and there $150 for 7200. I’m thinking I’m going to need two boxes. I’m trying to decide If I really need them..

[jack duren]

Figured up tye roof. Roughly $4000

[Tom M King]

How much would it cost to get someone else to do it?

[jack duren]

$15k+I’ll have to rent a dumpster

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I could come help for $14999.00, but I left my brake in New Hampshire (thank God).

I am still unclear if it will be an asphalt roof with metal valleys, or a metal roof?

[jack duren]

Asphalt roof.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I would do as mentioned above, a weave or a cut overlap with ice and water shield underneath and care taken with nailing, keeping all nails away from the valley. The finished job will look much like it does now. Underneath you will have 18 inches of protection on each side.
GCP Applied Technologies Grace Ice and Water Shield 36 in. x 75 ft. Roll Self-Adhered Roofing Underlayment (225 sq. ft.) 5003002 - The Home Depot (https://www.homedepot.com/p/GCP-Applied-Technologies-Grace-Ice-and-Water-Shield-36-in-x-75-ft-Roll-Self-Adhered-Roofing-Underlayment-225-sq-ft-5003002/202088840)

[jack duren]

Grace is an option , but expensive. I prefer the look of metal on the roofs. The roof behind me was done by a roofer that lived there. He has the biggest roofing company around here. He’s moved now and thought about asking him to order my materials. He put metal on his. I’ll put a picture up tomorrow..

[Warren Lake]

hats off to anyone that has been a roofer. That it is hard work. I rebuilt and reshingled two also doing facia and eves. Grace and Certainteed ice and water and Landmark 25's. This one some grace but more certainteed ice and water and facia eves and drip edges.

I used metal in a monty python area that changed direction on an area all built wrong. It has shingles same on both sides and I stuck them down and sealed that edge. Zero water in over the years. To fix properly would have been way over 100k over one third of the home ripped off so at least its water tight and no a concern that way. When I started I ripped out 25 feet of roof, new hip and ridge boards then new 2 x 6 and ply and and. no way I could roof over something out six inches. Still left 3 other sections all built wrong but at some point drew the line.

[Tom M King]

Sorry, it was 90 cents a pound. Phone won’t let me edit

[jack duren]

I’ve been on a few roofs working. Never the whole thing , but enough to get an idea how much work is involved. I’ll clean my gutters first and rip the front off first. I’m too old and too slow to do it all at once. I bought a used Stinger cap gun at a pawn shop. I fired it about 10 times yesturday and oiled it. I bought a new Bostitch roofing nailer last year on sale at Menards for $200. Bought roofing shovels on a 75% sale. I need two safety harnesses and ropes.

[Tom M King]

Good luck with it. I made a good living building houses by not paying anyone else to do anything except for paying a couple of helpers that no one else would hire. Just as you found with the pricing, I could build a house in 38 weeks for a little less than half of what I could sell it for. No getting around it being work though. Take every step to save steps but do every step the best you can.

When I was young (1976) and had one really good helper working for me, Charles and I put on 52 squares of shingles in one day including getting delivery that morning. He didn't stick with me though because I didn't work in the Summertime.

[Tom M King]

As an example, I thought of one step I did to save steps when dealing with shingles. I would set up some scaffolding, get the truck to back up to the scaffolding and we would set the bundles off the truck onto the scaffolding. With 6.5 foot high scaffolding, you can hand up bundles onto a single story roof without having to transport them from the ground up a ladder.

[jack duren]

You either pay yourself, or you pay someone else.

[jack duren]

Good luck with it. I made a good living building houses by not paying anyone else to do anything except for paying a couple of helpers that no one else would hire. Just as you found with the pricing, I could build a house in 38 weeks for a little less than half of what I could sell it for. No getting around it being work though. Take every step to save steps but do every step the best you can.

When I was young (1976) and had one really good helper working for me, Charles and I put on 52 squares of shingles in one day including getting delivery that morning. He didn't stick with me though because I didn't work in the Summertime.

My first job was working with my uncles as a block layer. Carrying 8” and 12” block ain’t fun. 100 degree Alabama heat isn’t fun..

[Andrew Hughes]

[QUOTE=Tom King said

When I was young (1976) and had one really good helper working for me, Charles and I put on 52 squares of shingles in one day including getting delivery that morning. He didn't stick with me though because I didn't work in the Summertime.[/QUOTE]

52 squares in a day that’s incredible. You beat my record at around 40 without a helper all field work with a couple pipes.
I worked with a couple guys that could throw down but the quality was poor.
I keep my rows straight and shiners minimum. I became a journey man in late 80s mostly flat and M tiles.
Good Luck Jack

[Tom M King]

It was a simple 5:12 roof. Only one little gable intersected it as the roof over the entry porch. I always snapped every line. Charles was a great athlete in High School, excelling in every sport. Charles fed me shingles as I nailed them with a 1" crown pneumatic stapler. That was before anyone had seen a roofing tack pneumatic stapler. The only thing that slowed us up was having to stop to reload. He died from lung cancer in middle age because he was a smoker though. This was a new roof on one of my spec houses, so not like we had to tear off an old one. We were both proud of that day, and I never matched it again. The people who bought that house owned six McDonalds in a major city. It was only resold a few years ago.

[Tom M King]

Every house I built here had a daylight basement with the part underground built from 12" blocks. I always bought SoLite blocks but the saying back then was that a 12" SoLite block "ain't but so light". No bragging about how many we laid in a day, but I've laid my share of those too.

[Andrew Hughes]

It was a simple 5:12 roof. Only one little gable intersected it as the roof over the entry porch. I always snapped every line. Charles was a great athlete in High School, excelling in every sport. Charles fed me shingles as I nailed them with a 1" crown pneumatic stapler. That was before anyone had seen a roofing tack pneumatic stapler. The only thing that slowed us up was having to stop to reload. He died from lung cancer in middle age because he was a smoker though. This was a new roof on one of my spec houses, so not like we had to tear off an old one. We were both proud of that day, and I never matched it again. The people who bought that house owned six McDonalds in a major city. It was only resold a few years ago.

Here in California they outlawed the SPS wide crown stapler. I loved mine it could hold far more fasteners then a coil nailer the senco coil nailer were ok we used to tweak the guns for rapid fire. Good Coil nails were expensive. The shop I worked for bought cheap Chinese nails that would jam the guns. Most guys including me has several guns we modified to properly feed coil nails. It was frustrating couple years until manufacturers got their shit nails send back to them. They did figure it out eventually.
My first and second men I worked with all have passed too. So sad my last friend jimmy died not too long ago from cancer.
He loved his smokes. The carpenters union screwed his wife out of his pension. I’m still really upset.
Good Luck Tom

[jack duren]

I don’t think anyone around here uses a stapler anymore. I wanted to move up to 1 1/4 galvanized ring shanks around here and there rare..

[jack duren]

It’s also unusual after putting w-metal down tye valley with with mastic or ice/water should down each side of it. It’s an extra precaution..

[Andrew Hughes]

I’m on the west coast it’s not a detail I’ve ever seen on a install. I can think of two reasons why I wouldn’t do it one is water shouldn’t be leaving the valley metal. Only a valley full of dirt and leaves create that problem of water leaving valley metal.
The second reason if you ever had to chase a leak you wouldn’t want the valley metal bonded to the underlayment. It would create tons more work and cause the roofer that’s chasing the leak to cussing profusely. Women and children would run in horror.
Good Luck

[jack duren]

It’s an added Layer of protection whether you need it or not. I can the reasoning behind it especially on the coast lines..It sounded like something for a few dollars more I might just want..

[Tom M King]

The roof I was talking about with the stapler was in 1976. I don’t remember how many more years they were allowed here, but I don’t remember using it past 1980.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Those staplers had the same flaw that coil nailers have. Operator error. The fastener right in front of the worker is OK most of the time. As the worker reaches out the stapler or nailer is seldom held straight. It tips and does not drive true. Leaving a very poorly driven faster. We have a few roofers in town who will still hand drive all of the nails, if paid extra.

515362

[Warren Lake]

first two I did with pros and both hand nailed. Did mine Senco SN 40 think it was, better than hand nailing funnel tip straight and no jams.

[Ron Selzer]

Had my roof replaced last year.
2 Crews, 5 guys from Miller Roofing in Millersburg, Ohio came, tore off, new tar paper, weather shield, hand nailed(no air guns at all), 50 year warranty. One day and done.
No nails, trash anywhere when done.
Price cheaper than locals who sub Mexican's with all air nailers.
Had dump truck that backed up flipped two lids out as wings and then slid the bed back to the house, pulled a trailer that had an engine to drive it around thru the yard to get to another part of house, same bed on it. Put plywood down in yard to drive trailer on. Very happy with them.
I have not been able to get on roof for 10yr. Stopped after having knees replaced.
Ron

[Andrew Hughes]

first two I did with pros and both hand nailed. Did mine Senco SN 40 think it was, better than hand nailing funnel tip straight and no jams.

I can hand fairly fast. If the job is small enough it’s good practice and kinda satisfying.
When were talking hundreds of squares working along side other journey men and everyone is piece working we count wrappers. Only a fool would try to keep up with a nail gun and a seasoned roofer. Plus you won’t have any skin left on your knuckles after a hundred bundles comp shingles are about like 80 grit sandpaper.
Good Times

[Warren Lake]

absolutely enjoyed hand nailing when I did but I was under no time pressure. I had to do way more than just reshingle then did even more being a cabinet maker in a foreign land. Way overkill.

Id peg the shingles at about 16 grit as I have 24 for an auto file and think they are the same or coarser. I ripped jeans in hours then got Blaakladder pants that lasted. Hands bled looked like crap, sort of like a shaolin master where they hit wood and bags and pushups on knuckles. At the construction show easy enough to see who the roofers were. That Senco model was a joy. I was very lucky they no longer had it here and a US senco guy decided I was a novelty and did a really kind thing, he listened and had time and next thing had found me that model in the US and told the canadian branch to take the offshore one back and treat me special and they did.

There were some nice things about it, being terrified of heights was no help but it had to get done. I had some real crap to deal with cause of past bad humans. Lost weight and was strong as hell when the roof was done. At least till it went away :)

[Cameron Wood]

I still have the nail strippers, for comp and for wood shingles, around somewhere- possibly even the butt pad.

Laminated shingles these days are much easier to install than three tab, except for the weight.

Before the holidays I roofed the cottage I'm working on with torch-on. About 500 SF but two layers. Those rolls are tough to get up a ladder!

[Tom M King]

I have one little building and one rental house here left with asphalt shingles on them. Those will be the last I ever do, and only tear those off and replace with standing seam metal when it becomes necessary.

[jack duren]

Hand driving isn’t an option for me. I cut the tips of ring and middle finger in 85. If I start hand riving and smash one of tye two with a hammer , I could do some serious injury to myself. I feel lucky they never had to go back and do more surgery..

[Tom M King]

I think the only advantage to hand nailing is if you happen to find the gap between sheets of plywood you know it. You can tell with a nailer too though if you have any feel at all for it. Even back when we used staples, I never had any roof suffer damage before it just wore out from old age. The staples were a pain to get back out though-much more aggravating than straight claw hammer claws to a roofing tack.

[jack duren]

Hand drive or not doesn’t make any difference.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I am very disappointed with my Bostitch coil nailer. I wish I had spent more and gotten a Hatachi or Senco. The quality of nailers has gone down hill. Modern guns are much lighter but they sure do not work as well.

[jack duren]

I am very disappointed with my Bostitch coil nailer. I wish I had spent more and gotten a Hatachi or Senco. The quality of nailers has gone down hill. Modern guns are much lighter but they sure do not work as well.

It use to be Hitachi, but it changes like the seasons. I bought the Bostitch cause it was the talk eveywhere, but depends on the model. I want to use Bostitch brand nails, but want ring shank nails. I’m caught trying to decide..

I bought the rn46

I did search around looking for an individual like myself who roofed their roodpf and wanted to sell their tools. Not much luck..

[jack duren]

I’ve got to check with Menards about delivery.

[jack duren]

Keeping an eye now on a sale. Probably won’t happen, but I’m hopeful.

[jack duren]

Considering..
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/7177267255722416/

[Warren Lake]

the senco with the funnel tip was the best roofing nailer ever made.

The canadian distributor who only had china to offer and could not get me one said there were problems with it. The US guy at Senco tore some strips off him for that and also found one for me in the US. What great service.

[Tom M King]

I can send you this on loan, as I think I've said before, and you just send it back when you get finished. I don't believe it has ever misfired. I don't expect to ever put on another asphalt shingle, but don't want to get rid of the nailer.

[Warren Lake]

Yeah thats the one.

I have foam glued to mine it as a few times even with the rubber bumpers it started to travel and since I knew id never find another one I want it to stay where i set it down

You are a nicer man than me Tom, while I do loan some tools to friends and have machined enough stuff for them my Senco stays with me

are you losing a pin there on the nail cover? good to see the rubber on the air. have you ever tried a swivel fitting on them. I know its very different but ive grown to like them, good ones on many tools as im not holding the air line rather it drops almost straight down.


515532

[Tom M King]

I had forgotten, but yes it's missing a pin. The 3/8 industrial ends swivel enough for me. I don't remember why there is an adapter between the gun and the quick connect fitting either. I probably stole the one off of it for something else and cobbled that up the last time I used it, which was a good while ago. I don't even remember the last asphalt shingles I put on something.

[jack duren]

I bought a new Bostitch months ago. Still in the box. I probably woukdld have bought Hitachi if I was to do more than one roof.

I was thinking my boy could nail the back of the house with me..

[jack duren]

This is the roof color..
https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/roofing/roofing-shingles/owens-corning-reg-trudefinition-reg-duration-reg-designer-architectural-roofing-shingles-32-8-sq-ft/1513189/p-1444450482552-c-5814.htm

[jack duren]

Called to get a price on shingle disposal. That’s a joke

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Columbia MO has our own landfill and charges $35 a ton. It is for residents only. I am trying to find where Odessa trash goes, it may be Warrensberg. A dumpster for a tiny house re-roof in NH last summer was going to be $1500. I bundled all of the old shingles with twine and took them to the town transfer station in the van, 5 trips @ $20 each. In NH the trash is trucked to a landfill in Maine.

This site has a search tool
https://www.countyoffice.org/mo-landfills/

[jack duren]

Looking at trailers on Craigslist. Cheaper to buy and remove myself

[jack duren]

Called suppliers about buying Owens Corning shingles from a supplier. Nope. It’s a monopoly

[jack duren]

My neighbor who use to live behind me has a remodeling company. Because nobody with sell me Owen's Corning without an account, he sells package deals . I come up with what I want and they deliver for an up charge. She says they use Rhino, but ai don’t want Rhino…

the problem I’m having. Not being a roofer and the fact that when I look up ice and water or synthetic, I get hit with trying to choose which one. This is the confusing part of trying to decide what to put on your roof..


Too many choices,.

[Warren Lake]

I had two choices grace and Certainteed. I used mostly grace first one then certainteed on the second.

What happens down the road when you have to reshingle again to the ice and water when the roof is stripped?

A big deal in the roofing bus at a show told me the bus was built on a scam made to be self perpetuating. He said stuff could last many times longer. Im still getting kernals off the landmarks on one I did in 2009.

[jack duren]

Ordering material will begin Monday. Trying to find razor knifes, etc.

[jack duren]

Guess I’m going to do a closed valley.Didnt like the crooked look of it. Looking for two razor knifes. Going to HD.

[jack duren]

I go today to pick up supplies. I saw a YouTube video that recommended synthetic over the ice and water shield so the shingles could be removed in the future, otherwise the shingles stick to the ice shelf and they have to rip the plywood off and replace it..

[jack duren]

So you would put down the ice and water shield with minimum fasteners. Then roll over it with synthetic and fasten it as usual. Then roof.

I can’t see that this technique would hurt anything..

[Jim Becker]

If you use a self-healing membrane, it takes any required mechanical fasteners out of the picture. It adds a little cost, but you get a better moisture/water barrier under your actual roof.

[Warren Lake]

ice and water seals around nails. Thats new some sort of paper over the ice and water. I likely asked one supplier what happens down the road for reshingle and was told you rip the deck off.

If that is accurate thats pathetic and makes using ice and water almost a joke. Ice and water had different textures the Grace was one thing the Certainteed I used had a different finish and bet shingles would release better.

Jack is that what they told you when you reshingle after ice and water you rip the whole roof deck off? will shingles not pull up off the ice and water maybe some heat involved.

[jack duren]

No Warren , it just makes sense. If the asphalt shingle sticks to the ice and water shield, how you getting the shingles off? Take a shovel to it. Tear it. Then it’s no good. If you apply a synthetic over it , you have lost nothing and gained even more protection..pull simply pull the synthetic up

it doesn’t affect the ice and water at all..

[Warren Lake]

that wasnt around when I did this so is that your idea? paper going down makes sense to not tare up the ice and water but then you wont have them sticking down the same way if they are on paper

[jack duren]

No a roofer recommended it. It makes sense to me

[jack duren]

Everything is ready. Now the weather isn’t good. Was going to buy the shingles when ready, but may buy them and store them in the shop..

Got my Stinger buttons. Finally got to try my Bostitch nail gun. Got a little kick to it..

trying to find be a used radio somewhere..

[Jim Becker]

Being prepared is not horrible things, especially for a roof job. Nothing bites more than finding out something is missing while you are trying to move things along and get OFF the roof!

[jack duren]

Yesterday was awful. Winds were bad here in KC. I’m trying to do this section before and big rains.Was talking to my neighbor down the street.He said he had them put ice shield on his house, but the house to the right of me had none put on. The section I took a picture of im roofing had nothing between the shingle and plywood. Builder grade houses aren’t inspected enough and tye builders subs get away with anything they can..

[jack duren]

Then came the rain. Did get my new Flexilla

[jack duren]

Stripped the roof..

[jack duren]

It’s wind an cold… Trying to cut ice and water and get it started..

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Be careful up there. It looks like a perfect week ahead.

517091

[jack duren]

Got most of the ice shield and synthetic on. Trying to get it weathered in with rain on the way…Yes, I love my button gun…