Comparing dust produced by tradtional tools with carbide tools

[Brian Deakin]

Can anyone please advise

We have a turner at our club who will only use carbide tools

Can anyone please advise Do carbide tools produce more dust and if so how much more

The separate issue is necessary to start with a lower grit sandpaper if you are using carbide tools

[Edward Weber]

"In general"
Most all carbide insert tools (not all) are scrapers. They remove material by abrading more than shearing, thus they produce more dust and leave a rougher finish.
How much more dust depends on the mc and species of wood.

[Richard Coers]

There are now shearing cup shaped carbide inserts and negative rake carbide inserts. Then the consideration of a carbide insert scraper and a traditional scraper has to come into play. A shearing cut HSS gouge or skew will make no dust.

[Neil Strong]

A shearing cut HSS gouge or skew will make no dust.

Richard

Certainly much less fine dust, but no dust?

I'll do some measurements the next time in my workshop to get some precise numbers.

[Randy Heinemann]

I doubt there is any woodworking task that doesn't produce some dust. Even usning HSS gouges where mostly havings are coming off the blank produces some dust. I can see that when I forget to turn on my dust collector or the blastgate to that branch is closed. Carbides, like Easy Wood tools, definitely produce more smaller particles and probably even finer dust than a HSS tool that is producing shavings.

I think there is no one way to turn and, even carbide inserts, have their place. When I started turning I didn't want to learn how to sharpen HSS tools, so I bought Easy Wood tools. They worked great, but put some limitations on the finished product, especially the surface of the piece. However, I still find that my Easy Wood tools are useful to me for creating consistent tenons quickly and easily.

So, if someone wants to use carbide insert tools, that's great. Them may sand more, but if that is what they are comfortable with they should stick with them until they feel the need to change. It came for me when I tried HSS tools and, even though I needed to work on the technique, I could rough out blanks more quickly and my final piece required less sanding. That was my own revelation.

[Neil Strong]

I'll do some measurements the next time in my workshop to get some precise numbers.



Her we are...

After turning off DE systems this is the background reading before doing any turning...


515277

Reading after shearing cuts with D-way HSS gouge...


515280


So some dust in the air, but quite acceptable.

And here is the reading after using flat carbide tip in scraping mode...


515279

Those numbers are not acceptable and even more worrying is that it took 15mins for those numbers to come down with my highly efficient DE system running to scrub the air clean.

[Dave Fritz]

Neil, You're measuring PM 2.5 correct? The PM is in the line, I just wanted to be sure.

[Richard Coers]

Richard

Certainly much less fine dust, but no dust?

I'll do some measurements the next time in my workshop to get some precise numbers.

Do you get dust off your hand plane? Same shearing cut on the lathe.

[Richard Coers]

Her we are...

After turning off DE systems this is the background reading before doing any turning...


515277

Reading after shearing cuts with D-way HSS gouge...


515280


So some dust in the air, but quite acceptable.

And here is the reading after using flat carbide tip in scraping mode...


515279

Those numbers are not acceptable and even more worrying is that it took 15mins for those numbers to come down with my highly efficient DE system running to scrub the air clean.
If we want to get scientific, we will certainly want to test more than one person's results. Way too many variables; wood species, depth of cut, rpm of the lathe, sharpness of the tool, moisture content of the wood...

[Richard Coers]

I doubt there is any woodworking task that doesn't produce some dust.
If we want to question my comment, I'll question yours. Pretty sure I don't make dust chopping mortises by hand, and riving out windsor chair spindle blanks with a mallet and froe are two right off the top of my head.

[Neil Strong]

Yes, Dave, PM 2.5. That micron size is the one of most concern according to the respiratory experts. The PM 10 is what you would see yourself under the right lighting and what would colour your snot, but too large to lodge it the lungs, so of less concern unless toxic.

The other factor is exposure time. The occupational guidelines use both short time high exposure limits and long term 8hr x 5day/week max total exposure.

If your lungs are in good shape and your exposure time is limited you might get away with it.

When I started woodturning over 50yrs ago I had no idea how much woodturning I was yet to do. Fortunately I erred on the side of caution otherwise, I have no doubt, I would be severely compromised by now.

And, of course, as we know, it's the sanding and in particular the power sanding that generates the most fine dust. My particle counter is positioned so that I can always see it when I'm working at the lathe and I consider it to be one of the most important items of equipment in my workshop.

[Neil Strong]

Do you get dust off your hand plane? Same shearing cut on the lathe.

I'm not sure how many board feet you would hand plane in say a minute, Richard.

If I'm turning a 12" bowl at 2,00 rpm then at the circumference that's a length in inches of Pi x R = 18.9" and at 2,000rpm that's or 3,143ft/min. That's going to spin off some fine dust into the air regardless of the cut.

If the air quality in your area is like most I expect that any outside air coming into your workshop is going to register more on the particle counter than any miniscule amount from hand planing...:)

[Neil Strong]

If we want to get scientific, we will certainly want to test more than one person's results. Way too many variables; wood species, depth of cut, rpm of the lathe, sharpness of the tool, moisture content of the wood...

Nothing scientific with what I did, Richard.

Yes, all the of the variables you identify would change the results, but at least I have something more than my nose to go by. Without the particle counter I would just be guessing.

This particular thread began with the question about whether carbide scraping generates more dust than HSS gouges. I just took a piece of seasoned oak and used a freshly sharp tool with both methods and noted some readings on my economy particle counter. A similar level of rigour to taking a moisture meter reading or a weight. I got more of a difference than I expected, recorded that, and shared it here in case it was of interest to others.

[Brian Deakin]

A huge thank you Neil for providing the comparative readings and support my experience of working close to a turner that only uses carbide tools