OK, this is overkill, but wanted to do this for some time

[Alan Lightstone]

OK, so my workshop is out of wall space. Seriously, there's a cabinet, or machine, or just something on every bit of wall space. Except on the wall over the door to my finishing room. I've used the tops of the cabinets to store a large variety of jigs, etc... over the years, but it involves climbing up a tall step ladder and bringing down sometimes heavy, unwieldly sleds. Not the safest thing I can think of, and I really am getting too old to go up ladders.

My workshop is pretty unique in that I have 15-1/2" tall concrete ceiling with tin sheets covering it. The house was built to withstand at Cat-5 hurricane.

I've had my large crosscut sled suspended by an electric overhead chain hoist in two houses now over the outfeed table of my table saw. That way I can use the heavy monster, and not ever have to lift it. I have a couple of other hoists installed that hold up a long ramp for rolling in heavy equipment, and a few other things. The hoists are rated for 1100/2200 lbs. Not wimpy HF things. Plus, had serious Tapcon bolts driven into the concrete ceiling. Rated for far, far more weight than this ever will involve.

So, I finally got bored enough that I decided to build and have installed an overhead storage shelf to hold a number of jigs that have been taking up progressively more and more floor space, tucked into every nook and cranny that I could think of.

To prevent it getting tippy and dropping jigs on the floor or someone's head, I installed two 1-1/4" linear rails and bearings for it to ride on. I was worried that they would be too precise and hang up, but actually they work great. There is also a chain and four stops on the rail to prevent the shelf from dropping unexpectedly.

Not a Youtube kind of guy, so here are just a few pictures of it:
514570
514571
514572

Clearly overkill, but safer than a tall stepladder IMHO, and a fun engineering project. Certainly not cost-effective, but fun nonetheless.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thats very clever. A guarantee that no one is coming through those doors adds value.

[Kyle Stiefel]

That is awesome, fun stuff

[Bob Riefer]

Love it. Very smart approach, and good idea to avoid ladders when possible.

Two ideas for you:

- Fun/Joking (but maybe not really) - A little mini basketball hoop on the front of that would be fitting given your ceiling height.

- For real - a light on the underside of the shelf would be handy.

[Ron Selzer]

very nice, good use of dead space
Ron

[Jim Tobias]

Love it....gotta make use of every square inch.

jim

[Bill Dufour]

I was expecting a bridge crane. Nice job. Can you get out if the power fails?
Bill D

[Patty Hann]

I was expecting a bridge crane. Nice job. Can you get out if the power fails?
Bill D

You must not have noticed the fire axe on the wall ;)

[Alan Lightstone]

I was expecting a bridge crane. Nice job. Can you get out if the power fails?
Bill D
Yes, the double door isn't the way out - though could be in an emergency. If the shelf is all the way down, you can still get out either of the other two doors. A non-issue.

I originally wanted a bridge crane. As it turns out, having multiple hoists in different locations lets me use several at once - far more useful to me.

[Alan Lightstone]

Love it. Very smart approach, and good idea to avoid ladders when possible.

Two ideas for you:

- Fun/Joking (but maybe not really) - A little mini basketball hoop on the front of that would be fitting given your ceiling height.

- For real - a light on the underside of the shelf would be handy.
Yes, I agree. A light underneath would be nice. Have to figure out a way to do that without getting the cord in the way. A wireless LED motion sensing fixture might be the answer.

[Bill Dufour]

Bridge cranes use feston cables to get power to the hoist. They can also use special extra rails that provide power to the bridge. Similar to trolley cars and slot cars. Not recomended on the wall where people can touch them. I would recommend two parallel pieces of copper pipe.
A cord reel would work. I remember, in the 60's, little balls with a internal cord reel for hanging lamp cords so they can be pulled down or pushed up high. Swag lamp anyone?
Bill D

[Michael Burnside]

Overkill is underrated. I like it, making good use of otherwise useless space.

[Alan Lightstone]

Yes, I agree. A light underneath would be nice. Have to figure out a way to do that without getting the cord in the way. A wireless LED motion sensing fixture might be the answer.
And here they are. Battery powered, USB charged, and motion sensing. Not the brightest of bulbs, but they do help.
514916
514917

Now, to figure some way to have a warning light outside the entry door to show that the shelf is lowered and the door would hit it. Would also have to be wireless.

[Michael Burnside]

Alan if you know anything about Home Assistant that task would be easy to do!

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan if you know anything about Home Assistant that task would be easy to do!
Never heard of it, Michael. What is it?

[Michael Burnside]

It’s a whole new rabbit hole of home automation. The basis is a server running on a Raspberry Pi. My home is automated in so many places using home assistant automations.

That said, have a look at what Shelley offers as you can have a cover switch drive a light.

https://www.shelly.com/en-us/products/shop/shelly-uni-us

[mike stenson]

I'd go with a contact switch. Mostly because it's not going to panic, or otherwise have a logic failure.

Even if the home automation stuff is cool (and I'm eventually going to get motors to drive my awning clerestory windows to automate their opening /closing based on conditions)

[Alan Lightstone]

It’s a whole new rabbit hole of home automation. The basis is a server running on a Raspberry Pi. My home is automated in so many places using home assistant automations.

That said, have a look at what Shelley offers as you can have a cover switch drive a light.

https://www.shelly.com/en-us/products/shop/shelly-uni-us
Trying to understand this. Would you need two devices - one to "see" that the shelf is down and send a wireless signal to the other that then turns on a light?

Would be kinda messy/ugly to run wire between the two, maybe...

[Bill Dufour]

I would mount a magnetic switch to the wall and a magnet to the moving stuff. See what burglar alarms use. Or use a lever action proximty switch if you do not want to deal with a contactor etc.
BilL D.

https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-switch-WLCA12-2-Q-Adjustable-Momentary/dp/B01HHN1LBY/ref=asc_df_B01HHN1LBY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598351578920&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14294931841310068836&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032277&hvtargid=pla-1635490837175&psc=1&mcid=d21437448de53b17a8fe5c5a35cae678&gclid=CjwKCAiAiP2tBhBXEiwACslfnrqqEAnK6AHmDOz_T1bD J7pyiVZqQbCjvwbSN9rfLyNlXGzPXtefuxoClzoQAvD_BwE

[mike stenson]

I'd go with a normally open magnetic contact switch. 12v ones should be under $15. Mounted in the closed position, as soon as it moves the light would go on.

[Bill Dufour]

Wiring to the platform is easy enough for moderate use. Attach an extension cord as close to the ceiling as possible. Lower platform to full down. Attach electrical box on the other end of then extension cord. Arrange it so the cord loops down as low as possible and is only an inch or so off the floor. Hanging unobstruted in a giant U shape.
Of course I mean use an extension cord wire and proper strain reliefs hard wired at each end not just some twist locks. You should use proper
festoon cable, but where will you get that?
That is how the used to do it for elevators.
Bill D

[Alan Lightstone]

I would mount a magnetic switch to the wall and a magnet to the moving stuff. See what burglar alarms use. Or use a lever action proximty switch if you do not want to deal with a contactor etc.
BilL D.

https://www.amazon.com/Baomain-switch-WLCA12-2-Q-Adjustable-Momentary/dp/B01HHN1LBY/ref=asc_df_B01HHN1LBY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598351578920&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14294931841310068836&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032277&hvtargid=pla-1635490837175&psc=1&mcid=d21437448de53b17a8fe5c5a35cae678&gclid=CjwKCAiAiP2tBhBXEiwACslfnrqqEAnK6AHmDOz_T1bD J7pyiVZqQbCjvwbSN9rfLyNlXGzPXtefuxoClzoQAvD_BwE
I love the concept of using these as limit switches to prevent the hoist from raising the shelf too high, or going too low. But once it cuts the power off, I don't know how you'd get the power back on again to the hoist.

Have to think about how to use this to trigger a light. The down position could vary by about 2-3 feet from the top of the double door to a little over the door knobs where I don't want it to hit.

[Michael Burnside]

Trying to understand this. Would you need two devices - one to "see" that the shelf is down and send a wireless signal to the other that then turns on a light?

Would be kinda messy/ugly to run wire between the two, maybe...

A lot of people are mentioning a switch to control the light directly. I didn't recommend that, though it is ultra simplistic using an optocoupler, NO switch, magnetic sensor, etc. The problem with all these is that they assume a direct connection between said light and said switch+sensor. If you have that as an option, go for it, it's simple. I thought you mentioned that you only had USB powered lights, no wires, etc. so I assumed maybe you could install a battery pack or something along side and power sensor and have it wirelessly talk to the light.

I was assuming that the light you want to control was not directly accessible and is perhaps the actual man-door light, usually required by code. Since you hadn't heard of Home Assistant (this would be cake with an Arduino and some HA code), I linked you Shelly's product line because they're the best IMHO.

I would get any limit switch off the shelf, 5-10 bucks for a pack of them.

Wire it to this device, which would be powered either with a USB power pack or next to the wall and wired to the limit switch wherever you choose to place it. What's fun is you could have two limit switches, one to trigger for the light and another to kill power to the motor if it gets too low :) (sorry, I digress, but it's totally possible with this device)

https://www.shelly.com/en-us/products/shop/shelly-plus-uni#node-om8u2dlkrxnh4

Then install one of these at the door light switch. This will allow your light to work perfectly as it did before via switch but also be controlled by a smart device (i.e. the device above).

https://www.shelly.com/en-us/products/shop/shelly-plus-1-ul

Then within the Shelly app, setup a trigger that when the limit switch is pressed, it turns on the light. When the limit switch is open, the light turns off.

Again, if everything is hard wired, then go the simple route but I though that might have been obvious, so I suggested a wireless option that should cost you less than 50 bucks. Bar none this would be the cleanest solution. I'm a novice woodworker, but I do this stuff for a living :)

[Alan Lightstone]

Interesting.

But let me clarify. What I want is a light outside the door entering the shop. If the shelf is down and the door would hit in when opening, the light would shine (red warning light indicating do not enter, or don't open door much if you do.)

This is not to control the two LED strip lights that I have shown. They work quite well, actually, with motion detectors built in. Not exactly as bright as the sun, but they do help.

This is a picture from outside the door, opening it:
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In this case the shelf is higher than the door, so feel free to enter (assuming you know the door code, leave a DNA sample, retina scan, and 23andme check of your family.)

[Dan Barber]

A simple limit switch wired in series with the light would do that trick.

[Michael Burnside]

Interesting.

But let me clarify. What I want is a light outside the door entering the shop. If the shelf is down and the door would hit in when opening, the light would shine (red warning light indicating do not enter, or don't open door much if you do.)

This is not to control the two LED strip lights that I have shown. They work quite well, actually, with motion detectors built in. Not exactly as bright as the sun, but they do help.

This is a picture from outside the door, opening it:
515047
In this case the shelf is higher than the door, so feel free to enter (assuming you know the door code, leave a DNA sample, retina scan, and 23andme check of your family.)

Yea, I understood it wasn't for the LED light strip. If you want to keep it simple and you don't have a light there yet.

- Limit switch - https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-KW12-3-Roller-Switch-Normally/dp/B07X142VGC/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2MKEQP3G5AKEL&keywords=limit+switch&qid=1707079730&sprefix=limit+switch%2Caps%2C371&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1
- LED 12V bulb - https://www.amazon.com/Warning-Light-Indicator-Pilot-Directional/dp/B07J6N96S7/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3D9J3VGNDGUAO&keywords=12V%2BRED%2Bbulb&qid=1707079678&sprefix=12v%2Bredbulb%2Caps%2C365&sr=8-7&th=1
- Power supply - https://www.amazon.com/inShareplus-Mounted-Switching-Connector-Adapter/dp/B01GD4ZQRS/ref=sr_1_8?crid=18G27U5AMTME&keywords=12v%2Bpower%2Bsupply&qid=1707079765&sprefix=12v%2Bpower%2Caps%2C515&sr=8-8&th=1

Wire limit switch in series to the bulb and you're done. If you don't like the LED bulb linked, just pick one that you like.

[Alan Lightstone]

Yea, I understood it wasn't for the LED light strip. If you want to keep it simple and you don't have a light there yet.

- Limit switch - https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-KW12-3-Roller-Switch-Normally/dp/B07X142VGC/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2MKEQP3G5AKEL&keywords=limit+switch&qid=1707079730&sprefix=limit+switch%2Caps%2C371&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1
- LED 12V bulb - https://www.amazon.com/Warning-Light-Indicator-Pilot-Directional/dp/B07J6N96S7/ref=sr_1_7?crid=3D9J3VGNDGUAO&keywords=12V%2BRED%2Bbulb&qid=1707079678&sprefix=12v%2Bredbulb%2Caps%2C365&sr=8-7&th=1
- Power supply - https://www.amazon.com/inShareplus-Mounted-Switching-Connector-Adapter/dp/B01GD4ZQRS/ref=sr_1_8?crid=18G27U5AMTME&keywords=12v%2Bpower%2Bsupply&qid=1707079765&sprefix=12v%2Bpower%2Caps%2C515&sr=8-8&th=1

Wire limit switch in series to the bulb and you're done. If you don't like the LED bulb linked, just pick one that you like.
Thank you, Michael. Very interesting.

An issue, though. The shelf doesn't stop at the same location in the down position (or up position for that matter). So I could see me manually lowering the shelf with the overhead hoist control and breaking off the limit switch as it goes lower than the switch mounted location.

Now if I could have switches limiting the upward and downward motion of the hoist, that would be great (and a great safety improvement). I can't think of a low-tech way of doing that. Having limit switches on the upwards and downwards limit would stop the hoist, but how would I then get it restarted. Its power would be shut off.

I'm sure there is an easy hi-tech way of doing this. Just need suggestions for that too. Once those limits are wired in, using the limit switch to turn on the lights sounds like a great solution.

[George Yetka]

Automating the lighting is a fun project but is it necessary. I think just having it come on with shop lights would be sufficient. To that end I would of maybe added a small cable chain or an expanding cord. and wire it into the lighting circuit.

[Alan Lightstone]

Automating the lighting is a fun project but is it necessary. I think just having it come on with shop lights would be sufficient. To that end I would of maybe added a small cable chain or an expanding cord. and wire it into the lighting circuit.
The problem is that the ceiling is 15-1/2 feet off the floor to get to the lights. Not going up a ladder to do that, and very costly to have my electrician do it. The motion sensing, battery lights actually work quite well under the shelf.

But I think the safety issue is really preventing the hoist from raising, or lowering the shelf too far. I'd love some way to install limit switches that would stop the hoist at the limits, but still have it powered so I can reverse direction and use it after the switch activates. Really want a way to do this.

The addition of a door light outside the entry door to warn people to not open the door widely when the shelf is down is just a nicety. At worst the door would hit the shelf and put a dent/scratch in the door. Not much of a safety hazard, just a nicety.

[Michael Burnside]

Obviously having a hoist with a limit switch built in is ideal. Maybe you can see if this feature exists on the one you installed? If not, the original set of items I provided would accomplish the task with the addition of a switch override (push and hold to keep on) that could provide power and override the sensor's condition, providing power until the hoist is away from the switch. Then you could let go of the push-to-hold button. Apologies that I don't have any off-the-shelf ideas that work in isolation that you just buy a kit on Amazon. I have solved a few examples like this, but not in isolation. Using Home Assistant, a limit sensor and Wi-Fi enabled switch to the hoist power would be a trivial automation task, but it's not a trivial solution for the uninitiated. I'd probably even install a Lockley automated door lock that would lock the door so it can only be opened from the inside and forgo the light :)

[Bill Dufour]

They add limit switches to electric actuators. They have one at each end. It goes to the limit and stops but it can reverse. I bet they are two way switches?
I meant the limit switches to control the light on/off. possibly a rope switch
Bil lD

[Jerry Bruette]

The problem is that the ceiling is 15-1/2 feet off the floor to get to the lights. Not going up a ladder to do that, and very costly to have my electrician do it. The motion sensing, battery lights actually work quite well under the shelf.

But I think the safety issue is really preventing the hoist from raising, or lowering the shelf too far. I'd love some way to install limit switches that would stop the hoist at the limits, but still have it powered so I can reverse direction and use it after the switch activates. Really want a way to do this.

The addition of a door light outside the entry door to warn people to not open the door widely when the shelf is down is just a nicety. At worst the door would hit the shelf and put a dent/scratch in the door. Not much of a safety hazard, just a nicety.

Alan, I think you can wire in some limit switches to stop the hoist wherever you want, and turn on your warning light.

I think all you'd need is a junction box with some terminal strips, a couple limit switches and some extra wire. You need to put the limit switches in the proper place in the circuit. That would be between the pendant and the hoist motor.

This should give you power to both switches in the pendant out to the j-box then to the NC limit switches. When either limit switch is tripped to the open position, stopping the hoist, the other pendant switch still has power to go in the other direction.

You could wire the warning light into the down half of the circuit.

Where I used to work we had numerous setups like this. Most of the time a PLC was involved, but that was to control several functions on several machine components and most of those components were 3 phase.

[Alan Lightstone]

That sounds very interesting, Jerry. I hate to get into the pendant cable, as it's reach is somewhat limited and the cable has to go up to the ceiling, which is too high to access now. But that sounds like a way to not stop the hoist from changing direction when it reaches its limit.

Much easier to get into the AC power cord before it gets to the outlet with a bypass push-button switch, but that isn't as idiot proof as the method you're suggesting.

[Wes Grass]

I worked out how to do this on 'something' some years back. Lever switches with a cam plate running past them, or a momentary pushbutton ... which I think was near impossible to find?

Wiring is lost somewhere in my head, maybe. Or a tattered notebook somewhere.

[Ron Selzer]

Alan
Do you really need limit switches to stop up and down travel or just one limit switch to turn warning light on when the lift is too low?
Set limit switch to kill power to warning light when lift raises up 6" past top of door.
Ron


clamp/screw wood,? to cable to trip the existing up limit, drop the shelf down and shorten the cable to set bottom limit

[Alan Lightstone]

I worked out how to do this on 'something' some years back. Lever switches with a cam plate running past them, or a momentary pushbutton ... which I think was near impossible to find?

Wiring is lost somewhere in my head, maybe. Or a tattered notebook somewhere.
No, I think for safety reasons I really need to kill power to the overhead hoist. There are nails driven into the wall next to the track that should physically prevent downward movement, but with a heavy enough shelf and contents, they may be overwhelmed.

On upwards travel, if the shelf goes off the top of the track, it could potentially tip forwards or backwards dropping heavy contents 6-8 feet from the air onto someone. Again a safety issue.

I picked up a pair of adjustable rotary level limit switches from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HHN1LBY?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Should be able to handle the AC load from the hoist. I'll need to have a bypass switch installed also if I take this route.

For now, trying AC control first, although may change to DC with a relay (more complicated. ? Safer, but really probably just a wash)

[Ron Selzer]

Allan
I understand your safety concerns, which are covered if you clamp something on the cable to engage the existing limit built into the hoist you will stop the upward motion. If you cut the cable to the proper needed length the shelf cannot come down any farther. Both are simple things that can be done from the ground without hiring anyone.
Ron

[Alan Lightstone]

Allan
I understand your safety concerns, which are covered if you clamp something on the cable to engage the existing limit built into the hoist you will stop the upward motion. If you cut the cable to the proper needed length the shelf cannot come down any farther. Both are simple things that can be done from the ground without hiring anyone.
Ron
Really, simple, sensible suggestions, Ron. Wish I had thought of those before installing the shelf. With the very tall ceilings, and depth of the shelf, I don't think I can get to the cable high enough up to make the upwards stop work. But really good suggestion.

As far as the bottom limit, I really can't take the shelf off now to cut the cable, even though that's a great idea too.

Oh well, I think back to the electronics drawing board with the two limit switches. The biggest difficulty now seems to be drilling through the wood supports for the linear rails to run the electrical cables through. Not insurmountable, but need a right angle hole drilled through the 1x6 wood supports.

[Alan Lightstone]

So I took some of the excellent advice above, and installed a rotary limit switch on the bottom of the run, with a wired momentary override switch to give power back to the overhead hoist when it reaches the lower limit. The wiring was a bit of a pain, but it seems to work great.

Now adding the limit switch to the top is much harder due to its height. Have to see about that one. I'm also thinking that it needs to be wired in series with the lower limit switch - so both are NC, but when one triggers the power gets cut off - as only one will trigger at a time.

As far as the light outside the door to show that the shelf is down -- still pondering that one.

[Alan Lightstone]

OK. Now have the rotary limit switch on the top of the run too. Both seem to work flawlessly, as does the override switch. Not the most elegant of installations, but seems to work perfectly.

I still haven't found a great solution to a wireless LED light outside the entry door for the workshop that would signal others that the shelf is down, and the door will hit it. I can power the inside portion of it, but it really would be easier if it had rechargeable batteries on both the signaling module (whatever that is, telling the receiving module that the light beam is broken, or the LIDAR senses an object, or an ultrasonic or photoelectric beam is broken) and a light turns on.

[George Yetka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICX5S9lsNpI

Alan

In this video towards the end (around 19:40)he wires limit stops. He doesnt provide a diagram though

[Alan Lightstone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICX5S9lsNpI

Alan

In this video towards the end (around 19:40)he wires limit stops. He doesnt provide a diagram though
Wow. And I thought what I was doing was overkill. Amazing, and quite elegant. But tremendous overkill.

[George Yetka]

Wow. And I thought what I was doing was overkill. Amazing, and quite elegant. But tremendous overkill.

I think thats this guys thing. :)

[Bill Dufour]

Why does this warning light have to be wireless? An electric eye type switch seems easy enough to adapt. Even a solar powered light that the sensor head goes into a can when the door comes down.
Bill D

[Alan Lightstone]

Why does this warning light have to be wireless? An electric eye type switch seems easy enough to adapt. Even a solar powered light that the sensor head goes into a can when the door comes down.
Bill D
Because getting wires around the double inside door under the shelf, and through the wall would be pretty unsightly. And there's no power outside the door.

I could get power to an electric eye on the inside. It's getting the signal to the outside and powering the outside light that's the issue.