MM16 Questions

[John Hulett]

Through a strange sorted path, I have a new MM16 headed to my garage in the next month or so (won't be ready to ship until 2/15). I went to the Woodworks show in Ontario, CA yesterday with my MIL. One of my objectives was to get to know Laguna and MiniMax a little better. I almost pulled the trigger on a Grizz just before the New Year, but held off. MIL loves home improvement; in fact, she has a habit of spending a lot of money for things that are well beyond her needs (the $12k chipper and $16k tractor come immediately to mind), but not necessarily means.

So we see the Laguna - nice machine, then later find the MiniMax booth. We were both just blown away by the MM16. To be fair, it may or may not be exponentially better than the Laguna, but the "used car salesman" approch that the Laguna rep was taking (not to mention he was catering more towards the older gentleman who appeared more likely to buy on the spot) just pushed me away from the booth.

So MIL turns to me and says, "We could split it!"

"I don't have ANY money and your daughter would KILL me."

So she buys it anyway - herself - and she intends to keep it in my (garage) shop.

Ouch!! Stop twisting my arm!

So that's the story. Now to the questions. As I said, with this beautiful machine headed my way, I find myself researching after the purchase. MM's web site is lacking in detail. The User Manual online seems somewhat generic, and for specifics, it's totally lacking. Any answers would be appreciated

1) What is the blade length for this machine?

2) What is the footprint size?

3) The display at the show had the Lenox Tri-Master 1" blade. I saw on some review that the reviewer did not recommend putting this blade on the 16", but it was okay for the MM20. Likewise, I downloaded the Owner's Manual, and it echo's the sentiments in the online review. The problem appears to be the wheel radius, more so than with tension. Thoughts?

4) What type of circuit are you folks running this on? Would a 30A circuit be too much? (I picked up what I needed to run a 30A run into the garage, along with the twistlock plug and receptical - do I need to exchange some parts?)

Thanks for your input...

- John

[tod evans]

john, go sign up to the mm group at yahoo, they`ve got the "english" manual you can read or download. a 30 amp will do fine for the circuit and as far as i know the trimaster will do fine on the 16, mine`s the older version so the blade is shorter, sorry.....02 tod

[Butch Spears]

John,i will pick my mm16 up in Austin on the 18th, Here is some info,154" on blade,31x30 foot print,30 amp@ 230v with 10AWG wire you will have to supply the plug for the pig tail.535 lbs. I am really looking to get it and getting it set up. Good luck. Butch

[Doug Shepard]

Despite some current problems I'm having with the electrical switch I think the saw is great and their manuals suck (can I say that here?). Here's just a few of my beefs:
1) No mention whatsoever in the Crating & Unpacking section of needing to remove bolts and reposition the brake pedal then rebolt. Once you understand what's going on it's an annoying ommision. I did my setup on a weekend so had to rely on user posts to try and determine why I couldn't get the Johnson bar under the brake pedal. I was convinced from several posts that I had a problem with the brake hanging up, so removed the lower wheel to fix it. Then slapped myself once I could see the entire brake lever mechanism and realized there was nothing wrong with the brake and the wheel didn't need to be removed.
2) There's not a single picture of the electrical switch or how to diagnose any problems with it.
3) If memory serves, the setup and adjustment instructions are somewhat out of sequence - meaning you'd end up repeating some steps that really need to be done after other things are done first.
4) The parts list diagrams really needs to have part names not just numbers.
Sorry if I'm venting, but I just think for the amount of money you pay for their machines they could do a LOT better job in the documentation department.

[Jim Becker]

Congrats on "your" new MM16 that will soon be on the way to you! :) 'Love mine...

The old version of the Trimaster was a potential issue with the 16" saws, but the currently shipping version has a softer, more flexible back and should work fine for a LONG time with proper care and feeding.

Do download the updated manual from the Mini Max Yahoo group site as it's much easier to understand.

[John Hulett]

The old version of the Trimaster was a potential issue with the 16" saws, but the currently shipping version has a softer, more flexible back and should work fine for a LONG time with proper care and feeding.

Do download the updated manual from the Mini Max Yahoo group site as it's much easier to understand.

By "proper care and feeding," I assume you mean releasing the tension when not in use? Anything else I should know?

I did see the link to the Yahoo group, and signed up - still waiting for my approval.

I have another question, but probably warrants a new thread.

[John Harden]

Hi John, congrat's on the purchase. I was also at that show and bought the MM 20" floor model they had there. Brought it home yesterday afternoon and set it up.

John Strain was there and talked me through the in's and out's of the saw. Got a pretty good buy on it and didn't have to pay sales tax, so I was happy.

Both the 16" and 20" models they had have the same, 230V, 20 amp motors, which I believe he called 4.8 hp. In any event, they have plenty of power. I spoke at length with one of the other Mini Max guys about the electrical and he had some good advice. Go to Home Depot and get 2, NEMA 6L30, twist lock, male plugs, 1 female plug, a receptacle (all twist lock) and enough 10/3, braided cord to make a 10-20' extension cord (or whatever length you need).

Install one of the male twist locks on the pigtail cord coming out of the band saw. Then, install one male and one female on the "extension cord" you are making. Finally, install the 30 amp receptacle into your wall outlet, making sure it's serviced by 10/2 Romex that goes back to a 30 amp breaker.

That's all there is to it. The plugs aren't cheap, but the brand they carry at our local HD here in SoCal sure are nice. I liked them so much I bought some to replace the ones on my table saw and planer.

Couple of points about the saw. The 1" Lennox, carbide blade is nice and cuts well, but because of poor design of the mobile package, you can't install/remove a blade of this width with the rear wheels installed on the saw. The lower door of the saw hits the front rear wheel so you can't open it far enough to slide the blade through. The solution is to put the saw where you want it, remove the wheels and install the leveling bolts with wooden pads underneath them. Re-installing the wheels when you want to move the saw takes all of 30 seconds.

Jim was showing me how the new, blade guard design is stronger and better made now, but unfortunately doesn't allow for narrower blades such as 3/8" or 1/4". The easy fix is to take a dremel and grind back the clearance on the blade guard right in front of the blade. You'll see what I mean when you try to install a narrow blade. Should be an easy fix.

Other than those nag's, it's a great saw. The cut with the 1" Lennox blade seems to be pretty rough, so my saw probably needs some more tweaking to bring it into alignment. Nice thing about these saws is that these adjustments are pretty easy to make. The engineering of the critical components and alignment features seems to be very good. I'll mess around with it some more in the coming weeks.

Regards,

John

[Mark Rios]

John, I'd check your code requirements for wiring 220 in your shop here in California. I think you might find you'll need more than 10/2 wire for the receptacle to the panel.

Congrats on the new saw. Those MM16's look really sweet.

[Jim Becker]

John, I'd check your code requirements for wiring 220 in your shop here in California. I think you might find you'll need more than 10/2 wire for the receptacle to the panel.
10-2 is three conductor for Romex in the wall; you need 10-3 for the rubber cord to the machine. For some reason they use different conventions in the naming.


John Strain was there...
Umm...that would be Jim Strain. :) And he's the president...the chief cook and bottle washer at Mini Max USA. So you were dealing with the top dog! Congrats on your new saw, too!!


By "proper care and feeding," I assume you mean releasing the tension when not in use? Anything else I should know?
Yes, detensioning is important to help maintain the blade life, especially with the thicker blades like the TriMaster. It "should" last you for a couple years or more, depending on how often you run it.

[John Harden]

What I posted was correct as Jim pointed out. In sheathed cable, only the individually insulated wires are called out. Thus, in 10/2 Romex, there is a black and white wire and a bare copper. This is all you need for single phase, 30 amp circuits.

Yeah, I noticed I called him John early in the post before correcting myself later. He was a pretty nice guy and while he didn't care much for Laguna, having been a former employee of theirs, he refrained from talking them down. I appreciated that as I wasn't at his booth to bash Laguna, only to learn from him about the saws he was selling.

Regards,

John

[Mark Rios]

What I posted was correct as Jim pointed out. In sheathed cable, only the individually insulated wires are called out. Thus, in 10/2 Romex, there is a black and white wire and a bare copper. This is all you need for single phase, 30 amp circuits.

Regards,

John

Yeah, I wasn't referring to the nomenclature of the cabling but to the number of conductors needed. Being that the NEC now requires a four-wire circuit for appliances (10/3 w/ground in the wall) in residential codes, I didn't know if John (Hulett) needed the same for his tool application. After checking with our building dept. up here, they informed me that yes, in a garage or shop application, a three-wire cable will suffice, as long as the motor is wired that way as well. However, they did mention that there are certain areas, like down in So Cal where John is from, that may require the extra conductor or have other code compliance issues that would need to be addressed, like UL listings for example. There is another member going through that trouble with his shop right now from Laguna CA, IIRC. Anyway, just trying to give a helpful hint there.

[Dick Latshaw]

The 1" Lennox, carbide blade is nice and cuts well, but because of poor design of the mobile package, you can't install/remove a blade of this width with the rear wheels installed on the saw. The lower door of the saw hits the front rear wheel so you can't open it far enough to slide the blade through. The solution is to put the saw where you want it, remove the wheels and install the leveling bolts with wooden pads underneath them. Re-installing the wheels when you want to move the saw takes all of 30 seconds.
Be careful when installing the leveling bolts. They are not QUITE long enough to reach to the top of the base (the threads are on the bottom of the base). It is possible for the bolt to slip down inside the frame. You then either get to fish for it or tip the saw up to get it out. DAMHIKT.

[Howie French]

... Jim was showing me how the new, blade guard design is stronger and better made now, but unfortunately doesn't allow for narrower blades such as 3/8" or 1/4". The easy fix is to take a dremel and grind back the clearance on the blade guard right in front of the blade. You'll see what I mean when you try to install a narrow blade. Should be an easy fix.

...
John

I just ran into this when I installed a 1/2" blade, I kept looking at this and couldn't figure this out. I assumed that I must have messed something up when I adjusted the guides. I went out to the Mini-Max user group, and sure enough... that is the fix that Mini-Max is recommending. Hard for me to believe that when you buy a top-of-the-line tool, that you have to take a grinder out and hack away 1/2" of metal.

I think at the very least they should make you aware of something like this.

I also ran into the issue regarding the brake pedal.



Howie

[John Hulett]

I have a comercial electrical contractor I work with three to four times per year through my job, and have built up a good relationship with him. So good, when I got my TS and I wanted to run a couple of quads in my garage, he came down, brought a couple of breakers and receipticles and his bar-bender and showed me the ropes on techniques of bending the EMT, and everthing else I needed to know, then left me to finish up.

About a month ago I mentioned to him that I was looking at a saw that could be wired either way; 110 or 220. Without hesitation, he said, "go 220." He encouraged me, saying that I had already run the other new circuits - I had already run the EMTand had an existing ground in the conduit, so all I had to do was get the right breaker, run two hot's and I'd be set.

As for color - I thought WHITE was for Neutral. I went to BORG looking for black and red, but no red available, so I went with black and blue.

I feel pretty comfortable with what I need to do with the power. I just have a little extra work in switching out a couple of existing 20A circuits to duplex breakers to free up an extra slot in the box.

Thanks again for everyone's advise.

- John

[Jim Becker]

John, the reference to "white" conductor in a 240v-only application largely revolves around the common use of 14-2, 12-2 and 10-2 Romex for wiring both 120v and 240v circuits. This variety of cable generally comes with black, white and bare conductors. One is supposed to mark the white conductor with black tape or marker at terminations to signal that it's being used as a hot conductor...not everyone actually does that, however. In your case, since you are using conduit with individual conductors, you can pick your colors and if it were me, I'd avoid white for a hot in that application...because you can.

[John Thomas]

I have had my MM16 for about a year. I ran into the door problem, but since I move it around a lot, I just lean it over a little and pull the wheel off. It is easy to do.