Setting high speed knives on any jointer

[Tom Bussey]

I first started to reply to another post on the topic, then I though better of it and I will respond on how to and to what doesn't work even though you think it does. My qualification for writing this is I served a 4 year apprenticeship ( 55 hours a week) as a Tool and Die Maker. I worked 60 years in the trade and I am still working 15 hours a week. And also in that time I managed to also serve a 4 year apprentice in Mold making, and for 3 of the four years I was a lead mold maker or the projects. And secondly if you have an inserted cutter head, they have nothing in common with what I am writing.


First things first. The out feed table is your Datum, and the cutter head may or may not be co-planner with the out feed table. A Datum is a line, plane, surface or feature assumed to be prefect. It does not carry a tolerance but every is referenced from it. Manufactures do a great job getting a cutter head co- planner with the outfeed table, but it still depends on who located the parts, what day it was machined or even what time of day it was machined as well as how accurate the machine that machined it. In other words you will be very lucky to have one that is prefect.

And feeler gauges suck when measuring anything. But if it is all you have it is at least in the right direction. Also magnates do not work and if you think so you have been sold a bill of goods. There are some that set on the cutter head and where does it leave you if the cutter head is not co-planner with the out feed table. Then there are some that set on the out feed table and the knives are held in place in the cutter head. Which is a great starting place. The problem is as the knives are tightened down with screws and there is rotation of the screw when tightened causing the knife to usually rise a little when tightening. As was mentioned on a reply on the other post. If you tighten it down tight and then move on the shift is greater than just snugging it down and then torqueing down in stages. Because of the twisting of the screw the magnet can not hold the knife in place.

Now if your cutter head has jacking screws you are very fortunate. Mind does not. If you do snug down the two out side screws and then raise the knives a little until all are set at the same height and tighten

The tool I am going to show fixes the problem. It is placed on the outfeed table and it will read the high point of the blade as it is rotated under it. The indicator point is a 1/2 diameter flat so you can rock it back and forth to get a reading. The out feed placement has no bearing on what is next. Rotate the cutter head and try to make it so all thee knives are at the same setting I prefer to rotate the dial to zero. it is an easy number to remember. Do not assume anything go back and recheck the other side. Tighten a little and repeat the process over until fully tightened. I adjust the knives so that the total difference is no more than .002 Don't try to get to prefect at first it will come in stages.

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Next set the gauge to zero while it is on the outfeed table and then slide it over the cutter head and raise or lower the outfeed table so it is zero. Now the out feed table is exactly the same height as the knives and all three knives will take exactly the same depth of cut. and then move it over the infeed table to set the depth of cut you want. I prefer to set my table at .0156 which is 1 /64TH 2passes is equal to 1/32 and 4 is equal to 1 /16 I prefer 4 light passes to one 1/16th pass and I can do a 8 inch wide board the length of my table and then some with one hand.

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[Ron Citerone]

Tom, that was an awesome post! I wish I knew that stuff years ago when I had to switch out straight jointer blades on several jointers. Luckily now I belong to a shop with carbide cutter bits that are set by an very experienced crew. I love the no nonsense approach you shared right there!

When someone with your training and experience posts I listen. Others should also.

[Cameron Wood]

Good info., thanks!

[Andrew Hughes]

Curious Tom why don’t you use a button tip? Then you can roll the head backwards and indicate the knives without moving the holder. Once the top dead center is found. The button tips I have have a small flat that’s plenty big for a knife edge.
I set all the knives as close as possible out of the head. The outfeed is set by letting the cut determine the height.

[Kevin Jenness]

Good advice about sneaking up on tightening the gib screws and rechecking as you go. Like yours, Tom, my jointer lacks jack screws so I have plenty of experience at prying and pushing the knives into line. Since I went to carbide tipped I do it less than once a year which is fine with me. I use a straight edge resting on the outfeed and watch the "carry" distance that the rotating knives pull it along to gauge knife height, then adjust the outfeed table according to the cut.

[Joe Calhoon]

I set manually for years on my SCM cast iron J/P.
One thing I found helpful was wiping a light coat of oil between the knife and gib. This helped keep movement to a minimum while tightening. That machine had a setting jig that rested on the jointer table that did not work great. Ended up buying a dial indicator for planer heads from woodworkers tool works. Then setting the out feed table to the head with a well planed hardwood piece to get 3mm movement.

[Brian Runau]

I first started to reply to another post on the topic, then I though better of it and I will respond on how to and to what doesn't work even though you think it does. My qualification for writing this is I served a 4 year apprenticeship ( 55 hours a week) as a Tool and Die Maker. I worked 60 years in the trade and I am still working 15 hours a week. And also in that time I managed to also serve a 4 year apprentice in Mold making, and for 3 of the four years I was a lead mold maker or the projects. And secondly if you have an inserted cutter head, they have nothing in common with what I am writing.

Tom:

Not being a machinist, just a woodworking guy, but a technical sales background I have a couple questions. Is there a source for the tool you show in your pictures? .002 you mention is that the final tolerance in height across each blade from one side to the other?

Thanks. Brian

[Tom Bussey]

I believe it was called a One Way Gauge and Wood Craft sold it. I am not a good searcher so I do not know if they still do. Andrew, The point came with the gauge. But I love the tip which can be gotten from MSC. The body can be made out of wood, but the weight is very nice and the hole for the indicator needs to be as perpendicular as possible. Since it is a direct reading indicator you will have a cosign error if it is not perfectly, in this case, perpendicular. if used on other applications watch your accesses. When using it for a short travel situation the cosign error isn't enough to make a difference but a full 1 inch travel it will.

I turn it over and use it for setting my my planner knives. My planner is a Delta 33 13 inch planner It has a cast iron bed. And just for reference the bed of the planner is the datum surface, again not the cutter head. I also use it to set the blade height on my table saw and for raising and adjusting cutter heights on my router tables. It lay on it side and I can set my miter gauge square. Lots of uses, I would be lost without it. I also make very fine moves on my rip fence.

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[Kevin Jenness]

https://oneway.ca/products-category/miscellaneous/Multi-Gauge

[Tom Bussey]

Brian,

It total indicator run out (TIR) from side and rotational also As you move it from side to side and also rotate the cutter. It doesn't need to be that close

I prefer knives to carbide inserts. They cut with less pressure so it is easier to get a board flat. I change out knives about once a year. It is next to impossible to machine all the pockets the same it for nothing but cutter wear and all the inserts are sintered and if you magnify your surface it will look like Bucky Beaver chewed it Anyway those are my two main reason not to change. Did I mention I sharpen my blades on a surface grinder so there is no cost to me.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I’m about to mill maybe 40 board feet of hard maple — half of it down to 5/8” thickness — and I haven’t changed my jointer or planer blades in a while. This process is intimidating for me. I know the work would go smoother with sharp knives, but I’m not confident I’ll achieve the setup I need for good work. I have no complaints about the surfaces I recently got with pine, but maple will ask more. I wish I could have someone who knows what they’re doing come by and tune up the two machines.

It’s not fun to admit this.

[Simon Dupay]

I have one thing to say taking off only a 1/64th at a time is hard on your knifes, the chips take away the heat from the cut, a 1/32ed is minimal for good knife life

[Robert Hayward]

https://oneway.ca/products-category/miscellaneous/Multi-Gauge

For a version a little more wallet friendly.

[Mark Hennebury]

A well explained method Tom.

I always set my knives using a stick of wood instead of a dial indicator.
use any stick , maple is always good, no particular size, 1-1/2" square 8-10" long.
Put two pencil marks on one side a couple of inches from the end. The photo shows three marks, the first one is not necessary.
raise the knives until they barely touch the wood.
When you rotate the cutterhead by hand it should move the wood from the first mark to the second.
Repeat, along the knife and for all knives.
Check as you tighten.

Then you can joint /hone to micro-tune to the exact height with a sharpening stone as in the second photo.
A couple of ways to do that.
Position the blade edge ahead of top dead center, clamp a stop on the infeed table, I use a thin flexible 12" ruler, so that It can stay in place for all of the knives. as it can just flex up to position the next knife.
Tap a wooden wedge in to keep the cutterhead from moving while you hone a micro bevel. This method gives you pretty good accuracy, a high quality edge and a clearance angle.

Another way is to not use the stop, and just hand rotate the cutterhead under the hone, this removes the clearance angle.
It will give good accuracy and a good finish as long as you only have a very tiny honed edge, just to get the knives in the same cutting circle.
If you have anything more than a really small micro bevel, you will find that cutting will be hard and vibrate the wood, as with no clearance angle the wood will be riding on the heal behind the cutting edge..

Third way, probably frowned on by many, is to do the honing with the machine running. A very high level of danger, do-able, but not recommended or everyone.

not my photos, they are from the websites listed below.

https://www.woodmagazine.com/tuning-up-your-jointer
https://www.finewoodworking.com/project-guides/shop-machines/sharpen-jointer-knives-in-place

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[Kevin Jenness]

Mark, that's an excellent method for safely jointing the knives in place. It would be a good idea to tape the stone where it rides on the infeed table.

[Mark Hennebury]

Yes you can just wrap a piece of paper to prevent the hone contacting the metal of the outfeed table.


Mark, that's an excellent method for safely jointing the knives in place. It would be a good idea to tape the stone where it rides on the infeed table.

[Tom Bussey]

You can use a stick of wood it you want to but, they used horses to plow fields with, well into the 30"S and 40"s or just after WW11. And after reading how many post there are about how to sharpen a plane blade. It says they probably screwed up the edge. Me included. I use a Veritas blade holder to get mine sharp. Using a stone like that usually screws up the edge, but if you think it helps go for it. I wouldn't touch it, but it is what working in my trade has tough me. And 1/32 depth of cut is only an opinion. but it is a much better option to take 1/32 than 1/16th. Every one knows that if a board is cupped and twisted when it goes into a planner it is cupped and twisted coming out. The same applies to a jointer. Any down ward pressure on a bowed board will result in the board being bowed after the pass. And the deeper the cut the more pressure it takes to complete the pass. From experience carbide inserted cutters produce more resistance in the cut and on a milling machine it takes more Horse power. There is nothing wrong with a 32nd or even 3/54ths until you get close If you have a gage like mine you can reset the height anytime you like.

If you take off 4 passes of 1/64 you have removed 1/16. if you take off 2passes of 1/32 you have removed 1/16. If your board is skip planed at 7/8's and you take off 1/8th like some do because it is the only way they have to get around a poorly adjusted jointer you have no material left the plane off and still get a finished board at 3/4 or .750

I have shown you the best and most reliable way of setting jointer knives that I know of. I have said that it is called a one way gauge and one used to be able to get it from Wood Craft. One can buy the indicator at Menards, Harbor Freight. or it can be ordered from MSC or Home Depot. I do know that Mitutoyo makes the flat point. I would stay away from MSC for the indicator. So many to choose from and the prices down right spooky I have said that it can be made out of wood and that is why I told where to get the indicator. And at none of the places should it be over $30 and that would include tax. I would put a little weight on it if wood is used.

I have one that I made out of steel it works fine but will need to be blocked up if doing a planner. I will loan it out for free but shipping both ways are on you. PM if you interested.

[Andrew Hughes]

I use a dial indicator holder similar to a one way but longer. For my jointer its a better choice because the table lips on my jointer are very wide and have a sight half thou taper they are also more then 60 years old . I bought from a member on the creek that makes accessories for sidling tablesaws.
Im a firm believer in setting knives as close to as possible. My jointer is direct drive and the head turn 3400 rpm I can feel a high knife when it cuts.
I also preach good high speed steel T1 or American National knives M2. The stuff sold on Amazon cheap with unknown material it’s best to stay away from. Unless you use your jointer once or twice a year.

[Tom M King]

I use a strip of Boxwood and set the knives by feel. A few minutes for a set of three including cleaning out the slots in the head. Picture of surface finish produced after last freshly sharpened set with light reflecting off the board from a window. Knife is pushed down in place while rocking the head back and forth with the wrench until the strip of wood is all the way down on the outfeed table and you feel the knife rubbing on a fresh spot on the Boxwood. Would take longer to explain than showing while telling. Will take movie when BIL comes back in a few weeks. I used to use a dial indicator too, but takes too long. Tools used shown in the picture. Little hook to pull knife up if it gets too low, but I think it's been a long time since I needed to use it. I sharpen the blades often for some jobs and finish of two sides of a lot of projects come right off the jointer.

I vary the cut depth all the time depending on the job. Picture of 12' long bowed and twisted treated 4x4 that 1-1/2" bow needed to be taken out of the 12' length. You could look at these 4x4's and see three sides, but they had been drying in a shed since 2017 and I needed them for some handrails. I think I used 1/8" cut for those but don't remember exactly since it's been over a year. I think I rarely take more than an eighth. No standard, just what is needed for the job.

edited to add: That may not have been one of the 12' ones, but they were all like that. Picture of handrails on rental house added. They're still dead straight a couple of years later. All the parts for them came out of such old, dry treated 4x4's.

[Mark Hennebury]

Hi Tom,

I don't get your comments about plowing the field's, or using a stone like that usually screws up the edge?

If you like your method better that's great, if you want to share it, that's appreciated, you explained it well. But there are other methods.

I am seventy next month and have been woodworking and metalworking all of my life also.
I never had the luxury of lots of money, so I could never afford all of the fancy gadgets, tools and machines. I bought beat-up old big industrial machines and rebuilt them and tuned them up. I didn't get any formal training, so i learned by experimentation, observation, and analysis. I bought a couple of tool and cutter grinders and experimented, I learned a lot about tool geometry, I made lots of tools and jigs, and I learned a lot about marking and measuring and precision, and a lot about the relationships between parts. What I learned most is that gadgets wont help you understand the relationships, but when you understand the relationships you don't need all of the gadgets.

I don't have a problem with your method, didn't put it down in any way, just offered an alternative.

So what I offered was a way to set your knives accurately without having to spend any money, that's the way that I always set mine. And it is as accurate as using a dial indicator.

Not trying to steal your thunder, just trying to add to the collective knowledge.

I can set up most any machine as accurately with a stick of wood and as Tom King said, "feel", as any else can with a $1000 worth of metrology tools. I have nothing against tools and machines, got lots myself. Got loads of calipers, dial and digital indicators, huge granite surface plates and camel-backs etc..

I know a thing or two about sharpening knives also, so I wouldn't tell people how to screw up their blades

That's Ziersch & Bailtrusch surface grinder, a fully automatic Marunaka supersurfacer knife grinder, a manual supersurfacer grinder, and a Hembrug tool & cutter grinder, a couple of the dozens of supersurfacers that i rebuilt, and some shiny wood sliced with a sharp blade, done on the manual grinder.

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You can use a stick of wood it you want to but, they used horses to plow fields with, well into the 30"S and 40"s or just after WW11. And after reading how many post there are about how to sharpen a plane blade. It says they probably screwed up the edge. Me included. I use a Veritas blade holder to get mine sharp. Using a stone like that usually screws up the edge, but if you think it helps go for it. I wouldn't touch it, but it is what working in my trade has tough me.

[Kevin Jenness]

There are more ways to the woods than one. I used to use a dial indicator to set jointer knives but gravitated to the stick method. It works just as well and doesn't cost anything. I will try Mark's jointing method and I am sure that it won't screw up the knives, which are set very close to begin with. I used to run a planer that jointed the knives when the head was running and having all the knives cutting equally, even with a tiny land with no clearance, made a big difference.

Light cuts at a slow feed speeds can give a clean cut on squirrely woods but they are harder on the knives due to heat. If I had been seen routinely taking 1/64" passes in employment while milling stacks of lumber I would have received at least a wtf.

[Joe Calhoon]

The stick method is very accurate. I had a dial indicator to get the knives close in the head on the old J/P but the stick on the outfeed tells the truth. When I was running with conventional heads and HSS it was once a month knife change and sharpening on a Makita wet grinder. You get good at it. I still set the outfeed table with a stick with tersa heads. You get 2 - 3 mm of movement and you are good.
1/32” passes?

[Kevin Jenness]

Like Joe I find my jointer works best with the knives a scosh above the outfeed table. In theory they should be dead even, in practice not so much. I always check with a pair of 1x4s as long as the outfeed table and adjust the table height until I get a perfect mating joint with no gaps or snipe. I may adjust the outfeed down .0005" as the knives dull before swapping them out.

[Warren Lake]

started on wood then went to a dial at some point. I can set my knives to .050 above the head every time and the cutting circle remains the same other than wear.

Tom K looked at your photo, what is stopping the head so the knife is at the top of its arc every knife? otherwise your knives wont be the same. The dial shows you top dead center and other times ive also clamped a precision square and checked measure so the head is in the same place for every knife. In that case the base of the dial indicator rode on the straight edge.

The dial I have is very fine resolution. I set to .0005 which is more than enough I get but just done it that way forever. Its easy to see .00025 on the dial as the needle is so fine and every thou is two lines. Ive never checked the wood with a dial after. I did see a you tube once where the guy said he checked and it wasnt as accurate. At some point ill compare. I like numbers, the digital read out in the handle of the Sata spray gun. The speedometer in my car comes in handy as well.

Always honed when back from the sharpener. Hard arkansa with oil they end up wicked sharp. Dangerous sharp.

[Tom M King]

Swing the head back and forth with the wrench in place. Feel for TDC. Less than 30 seconds per knife. Knives all exact. Check finish on test piece. Can't get better than that. I sharpen mine on water stones that are good for HSS.

[Warren Lake]

Ill wait for the movie. Used water stones as well for a bit and stick on sandpaper for other stuff. Looking back to last change on one machine I see I tried those magnets for the first time and could not get them to make accurate results. A set came with some knives I bought at an auction.

Usually when you set knives you are on one side and if you get that right the other side is what it is, if you go set the other side and set it it will change the first one you have done because you changed the angle of the knife. Im on a 14" head which is a bit harder and im checking for accurate both sides and the middle. ill play around and compare with the wood and dial next time and maybe try those magnet things again and see if I get better results. would have thought they would give perfect results.

[Tom Bussey]

Andrew.
I like the looks of your gage and I think it works well and would work for setting table saw blade height as well as raising or lowering router bits. You are also correct about blade material. I believe there are 27 different grades of T grade high speed steel so there is a vast differences even in the high speed steel category. And then there is M2 and M4 high speed steel. And you will have to trust me on this one. You are not going to like anything about M4 except longevity of a cutting edge. Any way M2 is the best choice for knives as far as I am concerned. I like your gage and I 100 % agree with you on setting knives as close as possible. I also believe you when you can feel a high knife

If your cutter head is direct drive then does your jointer have babbet bearings?

[Andrew Hughes]

Andrew.
If your cutter head is direct drive then does your jointer have babbet bearings?


My jointer has oil bath direct drive 60 hz. Its actually closer to 3400 rpm. Here’s what sets it apart. I have a 5 inch cutting circle with a 36 degree hook angle. I direct my saw service to sharpen the knives at 42 degrees that leaves me 12 clearance. My machine has threaded holes on the table for knife grinder and the manual does recommend jointing for difficult woods. I don’t have the parts.
Your post didn’t fall on deaf ears I’ve posted many times about jointer knives. Setting them picking good hss and last but not least a joiner isn’t meant to clean dirty wood. Then there the myth about insert head being a upgrade
I once was gifted a set of knives from a friend that works at mill shop that were pretty special. They had a black coating on the face. I like them but they were too thick at 3/32 my jointer calls for 1/8. So I tossed them :o

[Dave Zellers]

Tremendous info Tom- Thanks for taking the time. I do have a Oneway gauge and I will utilize it next time I swap out the knives in my 8" jointer. I have used the stick method and I also have a magnet jig that has been successful for me but I do put a small anvil on it over the outfeed table to keep it from moving. I lost a couple of the springs that push the knife up in the head so the magnet does that job now. Fine tuning with the Oneway should be very helpful.

Your post is going into my keeper file.

[Brian Deakin]

I raise the height of the out feed bed so it is slightly higher than the planer knifes when at top or dead centre

I take a sheet of glass and spray one side with furniture polish to create an opaque film


I then place the glass film side down on the out feed table


I then slowly lower the out feed table and rotate the cutter head by hand


When the edge of the knives scrape the film of the glass the knife edges are level with the out feed table


You can also observe if the blades are co planer by how the film is removed

[Warren Lake]

Bob Vaughan has a you tube on this from 11 years ago. IM not watching it now but memory past he was pretty on track. Memory was a few things I do different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRnrWOwun68

Below the outfeed table is exactly .050 above the cutter head. The knife tips are .050 above the head and the cutting circle is the same every time then changes with knife wear. Tom makes a good point about bearing wear ive never thought of that and using 50 plus year old machines with original bearings. The two jointed pieces of wood after set up still show what you have when its running. I usually have one setting for faces and one for edges


Measuring off the head
514612 514613


now on the knife tip
514614 514615

Its set up the same every time, cutting circle does not change. this is good on a planer as feed rollers chip breaker etc once set up right will always work. My projection is .050 On a machine using a knife grinder it may be up to .120 as they want to allow some number of knife grindings and honings. Those machines usually have thicker knives.

[Andrew Hughes]

Warren it’s not necessary to set the knives at some specific number using the outfeed and dial indicator for the machine to cut flat straight edges.
Let the cut determine the height of the outfeed.
After all the knives are set precisely lower the outfeed slightly below the depth of infeed. Take a cut on a fairly straight board until 3 or 5 inches extends over outfeed table. Now raise up the outfeed table to touch bottom of board this with be exactly top dead center.
Bob Vaughan video is what I used to perfect my system. I have taken it one step further As should everyone that wants excellence in their work and from their machines.
Good Luck

[Warren Lake]

I get that Andrew. I set the same every time.

I tried knives higher and lower and I like that amount. Same every time. Ive already said I use the sticks to test when running. I change it in use for face and edge two different settings. Its a thing on some high end jointers, ones I hope to try one day. Tom made a good point about bearing wear.

The statement about the same is relevant to the planer, I mentioned there were several things are set to your cutting circle. You gain nothing by changing it on a planer if the stuff under the cutting circle is set up right. I know there is some fudge plus or minus in those settings.

I have machine now set up by morons cutting circle so bad Guiness Book calling me to put it in. Rollers and all below not working, kick back broke parts in the machine. Good they hire top people to teach students.

[Andrew Hughes]

Sorry Warren my mistake.
I wasn’t careful reading and digesting what Tom was saying. If I’m understanding correctly there will be a knife height difference in relation to the outfeed table between a idol machine and a running machine. Because of bearings maybe cheap sloppy bearing or higher quality but just worn. I completely agree and found it to be true.
I also have a two setting when I’m facing or running edges.
So I get that part too.
My first jointer was one of those craftsman with the fixed outfeed table. It wasn’t until the internet that I found out how horrible of a jointer I had.
I apologize for not clearly understanding
Good Luck

[Warren Lake]

thanks Andrew no sorry I was just going to post, I just didnt want you to think I do it that way as i dont get it. this whole thing is all words and i often use them wrong or you say a thing one way and there were better words. Its just how it is. On other topics I can be pretty bad but seems friends know me well enough they understand me. I run too fast most of the time and not careful enough. If I proof read after I see my fingers and brain at times were in two different places.

I always use the wood test I know the knives are bang on from the dial or close already. If you want to get picky you can see im not bang on there but that is hilarious level at that point. Its one or 2 tenths of a thou difference.

the school machine was out by memory .170 from high to low. Thats insanity almost someone purposely doing that to cause trouble. The machine failed inspection a few years and I got the history and it said it failed because a door was open,. thats like saying my car failed an Etest cause a door was open. Close the door moron., the reality is the machine was set up so bad it was unsafe and it broke parts.

So whats that reality? a company that is allowed to do inspections was too stupid or had so little knowledge they didnt even discover broken parts and deemed the machine safe once the door was closed.

This is the world we live in. Stuff happening that defies logic, people keep their jobs that set our world up and let it run this way. Im not sure what is allowed on you tube but this machine is the poster child for our education system at its lowest. I toy with the chances of doing a you tube on it showing the sale page, showing what it is and not being sued. I was going to cover he sale page with saran wrap to protect them :) It would be an interesting you tube and at some point ill have to talk to a lawyer on the reality of doing it from the start. Ive still left the knives in and just spent time past on cleaning the machine and not touching it or how its set up.

Sorry for the rant

Thanks Andrew for taking the time.

[Warren Lake]

Andrew since you said about your past jointer. I had a general 8 new from the start all other machines general. In school they had a few jointers one a general 8. Old guy walked by me on that general and said its mickey mouse. I said its what I have at my shop and he laughed. Years later I bought his SCM and he said its no Mercedes and I didnt have an answer. I do now every time I turned that machine on just the sound alone even before using it was so much nicer. It is so solid and just a quiet hum. There is so much to be said for weight in machinery.

[Andrew Hughes]

Andrew since you said about your past jointer. I had a general 8 new from the start all other machines general. In school they had a few jointers one a general 8. Old guy walked by me on that general and said its mickey mouse. I said its what I have at my shop and he laughed. Years later I bought his SCM and he said its no Mercedes and I didnt have an answer. I do now every time I turned that machine on just the sound alone even before using it was so much nicer. It is so solid and just a quiet hum. There is so much to be said for weight in machinery.

Yes sir like this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqxUblMqwUo