Moving 'START' button on Felder K700 saw

[Rick Potter]

I am fighting the start button on my Felder K700 slider. It is almost impossible to reach with any panel on the saw. Actually the last time I cut one, I had my almost 5 year old GG son crawl under and push the button. I usually push it with a stick. Pretty Mickey Mouse, I know.

It is a 2014 model, and I know they offered a remote button, but mine does not have it. I cannot find it on the Felder site, and probably couldn't afford it anyway.

Anyone know what I need to install a remote start button. Stop button is no problem when cut is finished.

Thanks

[Michael Schuch]

Most contactors / motor starters use a NO (Normally Open) button for a start button and a NC (Normally Closed) button as the stop button.

To add a set of remote start/stop buttons you need a NO button wired in parallel with the existing NO Start button. You will also need a NC button wired in series with the existing NC Stop button.

https://opentextbc.ca/basicmotorcontrol/wp-content/uploads/sites/314/2020/01/Multiple-Pushbutton-e1579639660240-2048x734.png

This link where the above diagram came from has a video explaining the operation of a second remote start/stop button pair.
https://opentextbc.ca/basicmotorcontrol/chapter/three-wire-with-multiple-push-buttons/

I use a 4 conductor cable for the remote start/stop switches. 3 conductors for the control lines and a 4th for ground.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Thread moved to this forum and given a bump for attention.

[Lisa Starr]

My son (he designs and installs CNC controls for a living) added a "remote" Start/Stop station to my SC2C. It permits either station to be used interchangeably. I'm not sure how similar the wiring of the two machines are, but I'd be happy to PM the wiring changes he made.

[Warren Lake]

I knock one of the shut offs by accident on the Slider a bit too often. Guy set up a remote stop start switch for the Roto phase. Very nice. Worth taking the time to do what you want to do.

[Bill Dufour]

Note that the power running through those switches is very low. Lamp cord or even phone wire is probably plenty big enough. Voltage may be low as well.
Bill D

[Nick Crivello]

I run into the same issue with panels as well. Would love a second switch on the tail like the new saws.

[Bill Dufour]

A stop or start only station only needs two wires and a ground. A stop/start station needs three wires plus ground. Two wires and a ground can be from the cheapest grounded extension cord you can find. Three wires with ground, harder to find, more expensive. Or use flex conduit.
If the stop switch is hidden I would recommend an illuminated stop switch in case something happens and your wife has to rush in and turn it off in a panic. My wife knows where the shop panel main off breaker is and also knows she can just turn off the house main breaker, just in case. Would she remember in a panic? probably not.
22mm is the standard industrial switch hole mount size. The actually button runs 40-60 mm and bigger. Search for 22mm stop switch
Bill D.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/404424772836?hash=item5e29984ce4:g:w8AAAOSwaSZZ9BD g&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0HVqY0rWn%2BsAIxjoQRL1xwePrTg nqD4aJJ%2FlfrtmagzMKyuWvm89bLOI%2BoAFswl7nZhrOjNXh sjL6p%2B1D04gTnD3X1GmDoid%2Bva%2FPd3oy8KP%2FuLKaFf 1UYwMMDz1ilbFC%2FY%2FhFZApFSG6sTB7eFvt%2F1UTZ%2FGb SlDUdn63fJM22bMmyTU5eynx1%2BVdcTTH80LFPfACd3nbBeDT wXtMb5mR6z5lA85KTpdxSU%2BDHy7YhObd4b9XaRZ0rFb4eCpN r69yCsgg0PFOqusARcqLNePHXc%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8K6v8in Yw

https://www.amazon.com/Alpinetech-Emergency-Button-Mushroom-Illuminated/dp/B01ID0VY4O/ref=asc_df_B01ID0VY4O/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309774137275&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10043447199275618449&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032277&hvtargid=pla-664316140770&psc=1&mcid=b5b418b8d46a35f19e97ed798cea3113&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2vyWvcr2gwMVMy2tBh0DOAjUEAQYASAB EgI0KPD_BwE

[Rick Potter]

Thanks for the replies. Some very helpful answers.

Michael, thanks for the video. It took me two tries to realize it was actually working, at first I thought it was a still pic. It explained it very well.

Now..where should I put the new buttons? Would a coiled wire hanging from the slider with buttons on the rear be best, or maybe something above the table? Has anyone done this? I searched you tube with no luck.

[Michael Schuch]

Thanks for the replies. Some very helpful answers.

Michael, thanks for the video. It took me two tries to realize it was actually working, at first I thought it was a still pic. It explained it very well.

Now..where should I put the new buttons? Would a coiled wire hanging from the slider with buttons on the rear be best, or maybe something above the table? Has anyone done this? I searched you tube with no luck.


Your welcome, I am glad it helped.

When you figure out where to put the remote start/stop let me know. I am just finishing up the restore on my slider and I already know that the factory start/stop location REALLY sucks!

[Bill Dufour]

Thanks for the replies. Some very helpful answers.


Now..where should I put the new buttons? .
Why not both?
Bill D

[Sebastien La Madeleine]

Hi Rick,

I did this modification on my Hammer K3. One word of caution, your Felder, if single phase, might require more than what was indicated by the previously posted diagram. I suggest checking the wiring diagram of your machine.

In the case of my Hammer machine, I needed 6 wires to go to the new start stop location.

2 wires for the stop button, 4 wires for the start button. The reason is that the start switch needs to be a DPST, two wires signal the contactor to turn on and 2 wires to put the start capacitor in circuit while you are holding the button. Finding the right switch was hard. I settled on these:
https://new.abb.com/products/1SFA611142R1102/mpd13-11g

With those push buttons you need to buy the right contact module and I was able to find the double on, single off button module.

Hope this helps you save some time and frustration.
Sébastien

[Rick Potter]

Thanks Sebastien,

Mine is single phase for sure. I should have mentioned that in my original post.

RP

[Travis Porter]

I have an external after the fact switch on my Felder. It came with it from the original owner. It has a decently long coil cord attached a high quality single gang plastic enclosure. There are a couple of magnets on it so I can move it along the track which I find pretty useful.

[Rick Potter]

Travis pretty much describes what I am trying to do. Again, mine is 220V single phase.

I opened the switch box, and it has four wires. One in, one out for each switch. The wires are 18 gage at most, and the switches are by Eaton, and made in Germany. I have been trying to remove the wires from the switches but am not sure how. It looks logical, but nothing happens when I try to pull them out, and I don't want to damage anything.

I have found a nice coiled 10' wire made for trailer hitches, on Amazon. It is 18 Gage four wire, but I am confused why I need six per Sebastien. I am going to try to test start the machine with a simple jumper wire first, then go from there.

Meanwhile, a few days ago, I found that the belt driving the scoring blade was broken. I rarely use it, and have no idea how long it's been that way. Of course I needed it to crosscut some prefinished plywood. Found a belt on Amazon, just need to order it.

[Michael Drew]

There are a few DIY threads at the FOG site for remote switches. It is more complicated than one might assume. The most innovated I saw, was where someone installed a wireless transmitter in a 3D printed holder at the end of the slider. I'd consider that option if I had the time and ingenuity to do myself..... Every time I use my Hammer slider I get angry at the idiotic switch location.

[Travis Porter]

Here is what mine looks like. My saw is 3 phase with industrial scoring, so I can’t help you with the wiring. I will check if there is anything in the felder survivors guide though.

Good luck.
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[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Rick, Felder and Hammer machines almost always need at least 5 conductors for start/stop if they’re single phase.

That’s because there are 2 start button contacts, one for the run contactor ( 3 conductors) and one for the start contactor, as well as 2 conductors for the stop button.

Regards, Rod.

[Lisa Starr]

My SC2C is 220 Volt, Single Phase. This is the list of parts used and a photo of the install.

[Jim Becker]

My SC2C is 220 Volt, Single Phase. This is the list of parts used and a photo of the install.
Can you show the connections inside the control panel? (I do realize that could be a pain so no problem if no)

[Rick Potter]

Here are pics of the control panel and it's wiring. Sorry to take so long, but my wife and I took over two hours to figure out how to post the pics. In octogenarian hours that is a looong time.


First pic shows the control panel for my 220 Volt single phase saw. The wiring size seems to be 20 GA. My trusty HF tester shows 27 Volts to the switches.



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Second Pic shows the back of the switches and the 4 wire setup, just like the drawing Michael showed. The green one is a momentary start switch (normally open) and the red one is a momentary stop switch (normally closed).


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Third pic shows how I tested it with small nails stuck in the wiring clips, and a jump wire. When I jumped the start switch, the saw started. When I jumped the stop switch, the saw stopped.





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Looking through the great answers I received to my question, it appears there may be variation between manufacturers or even models of the same mfg. Throw in various three phase situations, and it can get complicated.

Fortunately for me, mine is pretty simple, and is wired just like Michael Schuck's diagram early in the thread. Four wires with make and break switches. Yes, I am going to get both start and stop remote buttons, and keep the originals where they are. My shopping list matches Lisa Starr's list almost exactly, except I will probably opt for a complete setup with the box and switches all in a package. (When you Google for these parts, the whole shebang is called a 'switching station). It seems simple enough for a DIY guy to manage, but only time will tell.

I will report when I get the parts in and installed. Hopefully this will help others with the same problem. I am pretty sure I am going to get a coiled wire, and hang the box on the side of the slider, unless I see something I like better.

[Nick Crivello]

Here is what mine looks like. My saw is 3 phase with industrial scoring, so I can’t help you with the wiring. I will check if there is anything in the felder survivors guide though.

Good luck.
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Hey, that's my saw! Can you post how that was done on yours?

[Tom Bender]

My TS has a foot switch wired into the control circuit in the VFD. This circuit carries very low power but the big wire helps to position the switch. I really like the foot switch as I can start and stop without moving my hands. The white switch is off when the saw is not needed. BTW it is DPDT to reduce the risk of lightning getting to the VFD again.

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[Rick Potter]

Never would have thought of a foot switch Tom. I have decided mine will be like the pic from Travis, with the switch box attached to the rear of the slider.

My saw is a short slider, and the wire has to extend 5' to the rearmost position , and 2' to the forward position. I looked around and could not locate any nearby places to buy the parts, so I just ordered them from Amazon yesterday. Should be here within a week. I went ahead and got the switchbox with an emergency stop button plus the start and stop buttons. Meanwhile I will build a holder to attach it to the slider.

I will document how I do it, for future use.

To be continued...

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tom, I’m curious why you have a stop and an e-stop button on your remote push button station?

Regards, Rod