Full sheet slider... space required?

[andrew whicker]

How do you find space requirements for a full size panel saw?

Is it basically sheet cut length times 2 for length?

[jack duren]

You should be able to get that from the website.

[Kevin Jenness]

How do you find space requirements for a full size panel saw?

Is it basically sheet cut length times 2 for length?

More than that. Basically twice the carriage length plus a couple of feet so that it starts clear of the scoring blade and ends beyond the riving knife. My saw is designed for cutting 4' x 8' sheets and needs a minimum of 13'6" wide x 20', plus 4' behind the carriage for a place to stand and load a sheet onto the saw. Realistically it's only a couple of feet longer than if you were using a cabinet saw for breaking down sheets.

[Pat Rice]

I have full size slider in my 24' x 24' hobby shop, love being able to rip full 8' on the slider.

[Bryan Hall]

Dims available through manufacturers.

[Jim Becker]

How do you find space requirements for a full size panel saw?

Is it basically sheet cut length times 2 for length?
SOrta, but with a little more space overhead. The 8'6" slider I had on the SCM/Minimax S315WS at my old shop required 19' for the full throw of the wagon, end to end for a cut. The wagon is longer than the actual cutting capacity to get the material beyond the main blade and scoring blade with a full "rip" cut.

[Nick Crivello]

Like the others, I have about 24’x24’. Full length slider is aimed at the garage door. Outrigger/fences can be set to complete most cuts with the door closed. Open the door for full length/panel cuts.

Most fail to consider the infeed and outfeed requirements that still exists with cabinet saws; with the slider it’s marginally bigger but fully supported throughout.

[Aaron Inami]

The front edge of the sliding table has to move back far enough to where it's just behind the scoring blade. Then it moves forward to where the rear edge of the table is just about centered on the the blade. I would say that a rough estimate is:

length of sliding table X 2 plus about 10-20" (depending on if you have a dish/handle or something else attached to the rear of the sliding table).

I would imagine this varies based on the brand of the saw.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Andrew, essentially it’s the same as required for a cabinet saw as you need a full sheet space in front of the blade and behind the blade.

A slider may need one foot more because if you’re straight line ripping a sheet the sliding table loses maybe 6 to 8 inches because the crosscut fence will be on the front of the table.

Aside from that you may save some ancillary space as you don’t need an infeed or outfeed table if you use a parallel ripping device on the slider.

Format saws also can use clip on infeed and outfeed tables, they’re only there if you want one.

On my saw the outrigger isn’t normally mounted, saving space.

Regards, Rod

[Mick Simon]

One thing that solidified my decision to order my 8'6" capacity slider was laying it out in CAD (39 iterations) along with all my other equipment. Had I not done that, I would have ordered a shorter stroke saw. As it is, I have 2" on either end and plenty of room to walk around with the carriage centered.

[David Zaret]

One thing that solidified my decision to order my 8'6" capacity slider was laying it out in CAD (39 iterations) along with all my other equipment. Had I not done that, I would have ordered a shorter stroke saw. As it is, I have 2" on either end and plenty of room to walk around with the carriage centered.

this. my martin slider handles 10’ stock in my 35x65 shop, facing the short way. but, layout was achieved in software very carefully with many iterations. spend the time to model it.

[jack duren]

Think if you were squaring up a sheet of plywood. You would have 96” roughly to the blade(left) plus whatever the right side would be. Then figure the amount of space it required to cut that on length..

[Kevin Jenness]

One thing that solidified my decision to order my 8'6" capacity slider was laying it out in CAD (39 iterations) along with all my other equipment. Had I not done that, I would have ordered a shorter stroke saw. As it is, I have 2" on either end and plenty of room to walk around with the carriage centered.

Very good point. My former employer had a short stroke slider but "no room" for a full size one until I did some CAD work and figured out how to shoehorn one in. You need to model the material paths along with the machine footprints, and there may be ways to pack things in by using different machine heights so that material paths can overlap. Both that saw and mine are positioned off-axis from the shop floor to get needed clearance.

[John Pendery]

As others have said, add about 2’ length to the sliding table length doubled. My saw needs bare minimum of 13’ width, but realistically needs more than that. If you never planned on working with material longer than 8’ you could probably get by with 15’ of width. One thing I’ll add is that when I was looking for a slider I had zeroed my search in to 10’ sliders. I came across a decent used 12’ machine and I don’t regret having the extra length. 90% of the time I have the crosscut fence pulled back a couple feet on the sliding table, but the extra length comes in handy (especially if you add air clamps, etc…) and it really doesn’t take up much extra space. You don’t use the full stroke on every cut after all. Hope you find a nice saw for your shop!

[andrew whicker]

I appreciate all the responses. I'm asking generically because I don't know what I may end up with. Attached is a simple drawing of my shop. Some tools, workbenches are missing, but I'm willing to make some adjustments on that end. What I am showing is equipment that is hard to move. It can be done of course, but it will be a big project.

I'm going to be buying a container to keep my lumber / sheet goods in right outside my garage door. Ideally, I only bring the bare minimum amount of material into my shop. So having the table saw as the first piece of equipment in front of the garage door. I would need room in front just to move things in and out, store stuff, etc.

I'm starting to think I need to overhaul my layout.. the joiner and planer both feed perp to the garage door. But w/ a large slider that isn't going to work anymore.

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[Jim Becker]

Andrew, even though it makes "some folks" cringe, I'm going to suggest to you that you not just consider machinery orientation parallel to walls. Sometimes angles are your friend when it comes to the combination of infeed/outfeed and workflow. That, combined with paying attention to work surface heights makes for what ultimately worked for me. That is true in my new shop and I would have done that in the old one, too, except I had a sloped floor at the old property and that was too complicating for the slider which has to be level for obvious reasons. Now, I have a smaller space than you, but the idea potentially could be helpful to you.

[andrew whicker]

I agree. I think putting an angle on the shaper is necessary if the bandsaw stays where it is. Running a 10 ft piece is problematic. Of course the fence can be angled, but would be nice to have the fence in it's std position and the machine angled.

The planer and joiner could be angled. Obviously, the planer needs a lot of height variability considering the bed moves up and down.

I don't have a tablesaw drawn because I'm trying to make a decision on what the solution is going to be. Currently I have my unisaw on a roll around table. If I keep that or buy something similar (cabinet saw) but higher HP / bigger blade, etc. I'd like to get rid of the wheels and really build out a sturdy island for the saw.

[andrew whicker]

Here is an upgraded image w/ some more details.

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[Johannes Becker]

You can fit a slider into a relatively small space if needed. Obviously it is better to have plenty of space around it and shoehorning it into a space impacts productivity. I did a lot of modeling and ended up with a full size 10ft slider in my 450sqft workshop and am very happy with it. Normally, I am not processing full sheets on the slider (i break them down in the garage where I store my sheet goods) but I can crosscut or rip a full sheet if necessary.

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if you are space constrained, have a good look at the working heights of the different machines. For example, my outrigger and any sheet goods clear over my workbench if necessary. In practice, that rarely occurs and most of my work is shorter so that I don't need that capability. I actually use it much more often to rip solid boards and then often need the full length (I would recommend going 9-10ft table length so you easily rip an 8ft board). One thing that I only realized after getting the slider is that on the KF700 you need to move the table all the way to the front to change blades.

[Jim Becker]

Andrew, you may have seen this in the past, but this shot should show you want I ended up doing to make for clean infeed/outfeed pathways including complimentary heights in my new shop. It's not a big space, per se, but to-date, I've not run into any material conflicts.

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[andrew whicker]

That looks really tight. I think you've said you have "short stroke" slider? It doesn't look too "short", but it doesn't look full size? What is that bed table in the bottom right? Is that for storing the sheet goods you cut?

How big is your overall shop space? I have about 1700 sq ft with a badly placed bathroom / furnace area. I definitely should be able to fit one, but it's wild how quickly space disappears. I need to be more disciplined w/ my space. I've been removing tools I don't need and, like I said, a container will help out w/ excess material, job material, and on site tools.

I do need to spend some time doing the YouTube shop tours. I generally don't like a lot of YouTube woodworkers.. most of them seem over tooled up and produce videos more than projects.. so I'm up for recommendations of good shop tours that are clearly used.



Andrew, you may have seen this in the past, but this shot should show you want I ended up doing to make for clean infeed/outfeed pathways including complimentary heights in my new shop. It's not a big space, per se, but to-date, I've not run into any material conflicts.

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[Jim Becker]

24x36x10, Andrew, and yes, that's a short stroke slider. If I do happen to do a "traditional" rip of 8' or longer material on the saw, it clears the other worksurfaces no problem. The table, bottom right is for my flattening system but I also use it as a saw table with the track saw and as and assembly surface where "large" is convenient. An example of that was the 7' long table top for the three season porch I made this past year. The open, but "flat" grid made clamping easy without having to physically lift the material onto the clamps. That structure breaks down into three pieces (two tops and a lower support) plus the two sawhorses for storage if I don't need it or need the space for some other reason. That takes about 15 minutes tops.

I could have easily fit a bigger slider in this space, but actively chose to go with a short stroke slider for both cost (bought for not much more than I sold the larger saw for when moving) and practical reasons based on my general usage.

[Warren Lake]

you can combine machines the green radial arm can be on the slider side in front or back of it and they each become support for each other. I put the radial inline with the slider and then a jointer after and a bench is already in front so the bench slider right side radial and jointer are all in order and support and work together. more critical all machine heights are the same

[andrew whicker]

thanks for the reply.

When I see some of the heavy built short sliders, they look so much more useable on every day furniture style cuts than the big euro sliders. The surface area of the sliding portion seems easier to work on vs the mostly empty space of the sliding part of say an Altendorf or similar. It seems like a full panel size saw starts to get so specialized for cutting sheet goods that it loses capability for lumber?

I will have to find some videos on the bigger sliding saws by users that do cabinetry AND furniture.

Because I can see a version of my shop where I own a short slider (over 48" cross cut) and a 12" cabinet saw built into an island and really get the same results, but with possibly more lumber capabilities.

[Nick Crivello]

Andrew,

You have a huge space to work with. I have a 10' full length K700 in my little 24x24 shop. The 16" Porter jointer is co-planer with the K700; outfeed for long pieces land on the K700. I don't always have the outrigger mounted; Easily pops off onto it's roll around carriage and lives in front of the K700 by the compressor in the corner. The outrigger can move forward/backward on the slider, and the short fence can also be used in it's place. There is a narrow fork pallet jack that lives under the K700.

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[Joel Gelman]

If you can see the saw or a similar saw where you have a tape measure in hand, you can get a good idea. This is what I have done when re-configuring. For sure you need to have room for the wood and the slider to be in front of the scoring blade before the cut, and you need room for the slider and wood to travel though the blade. However, to the side of the slider, you want to have room to maneuver and load the plywood (crazy horse dolly is nice for this). Always nice to not be cramped when the slider is all the way forward before the cut and you want to have room in front of the front of the slider.

Another thing to consider is if you want to crosscut long boards that are either too wide for a chop saw or if you do not have the infeed clearance or if for some other reason you want to use the slider. On the slider side, if you are cross cutting a 4x8 sheet to cut off 1 ft, you need 7 ft to the slider side of the blade along the length of the cut.

An impressive footprint requirement to really not be cramped

[Kevin Jenness]

thanks for the reply.

When I see some of the heavy built short sliders, they look so much more useable on every day furniture style cuts than the big euro sliders. The surface area of the sliding portion seems easier to work on vs the mostly empty space of the sliding part of say an Altendorf or similar. It seems like a full panel size saw starts to get so specialized for cutting sheet goods that it loses capability for lumber?

I will have to find some videos on the bigger sliding saws by users that do cabinetry AND furniture.

Because I can see a version of my shop where I own a short slider (over 48" cross cut) and a 12" cabinet saw built into an island and really get the same results, but with possibly more lumber capabilities.

Seems like you should try to visit some shops doing the kind of work you want to do and see what they are working with. There must be some businesses or hobby shops in Salt Lake that would give you a nickel tour.

For sure, many of the full size panel saws have wide carriages, 16" or more, which makes ripping conventionally awkward. On the other hand, you can do a lot of work from the left side of the saw using positioning jigs on the carriage. On most saws the crosscut fence can be positioned on the near side of the outrigger for cutting narrow stock more comfortably, and the outrigger can pop off and be stored in a corner. To my thinking a large saw has the advantage that you can do glueline quality 8'+ rips on both sheet stock and lumber and you can cleanly cut all your cabinet parts on one machine. It really depends on the type of work you are doing and what you are comfortable with. You can look at all the youtube shops you want but hands-on experience will tell you more.

Joe Calhoon is primarily a doormaker and he seems to use a full-size panel saw for a great deal of his work. Of course he also has a smaller Martin T17 on the floor, so it might be worth asking his advice on the subject. I have room for only one saw in my 1100 sq ft shop and I'm happy with my 4'x 8' saw for both panel and solid wood processing.

I have a somewhat similar layout to your shop but smaller. My slider has the right (rip fence) side against an outside wall with my crosscut saw bench on the infeed side at the same height. The jointer, planer and shaper run parallel to the panel saw. In your case you could consolidate the radial arm and miter saws closer together and have the slider more or less centered on the posts. It's definitely worth the effort to play with multiple layouts, realizing it may change over time. Good luck.

[Jim Becker]

ALong the lines of what Kevin mentioned, if you contact Felder and SCM/Minimax, they often can point you at owners in your geography that are open to prospective customer visits. I've had a few folks over the years come to my shop for that. It not only lets you get to see "tools", it lets you talk about how they are being used by folks actually using them. :)

[John Pendery]

thanks for the reply.

When I see some of the heavy built short sliders, they look so much more useable on every day furniture style cuts than the big euro sliders. The surface area of the sliding portion seems easier to work on vs the mostly empty space of the sliding part of say an Altendorf or similar. It seems like a full panel size saw starts to get so specialized for cutting sheet goods that it loses capability for lumber?

I will have to find some videos on the bigger sliding saws by users that do cabinetry AND furniture.

Because I can see a version of my shop where I own a short slider (over 48" cross cut) and a 12" cabinet saw built into an island and really get the same results, but with possibly more lumber capabilities.


My shop is 30x60, so very similar square footage to yours, and I do a lot of cabinets, millwork and occasionally furniture, but all mostly one off custom stuff and no large volume production work. So I think the type of work you and I do at least overlaps.

I started with cabinet saws and went to the double cabinet saw island you often see. I then got a short stroke slider and immediately found how useful the built in slider was. From there got the full slider and if I could only have one saw it would absolutely be a slider with at least 10’ capacity. It takes a bit of a mindset shift to adapt workflow from a cabinet saw to slider, but I think it’s a misconception that large sliders are only useful for breaking down sheets. I do prefer ripping on a cast iron cabinet saw, but if I had to make a choice I would sacrifice this preference since the slider does everything else so much better. Cut quality alone when using the sliding table is in a different league.

I don’t say any of this to try to convince you or any one of anything, just sharing my personal experience. I know a lot of production shops are selling sliders and panel saws and going CNC, but for mostly one off stuff I haven’t found a way to justify the expense and space for one. Come the day I do go CNC I’ll probably be kicking myself the same way I did when I switched to a sliding table saw…

Space disappears very quickly in shops our size, so I totally get the dilemma. I think Kevin offered some really good advice. Best of luck with whatever route you choose!

[John Pendery]

Andrew, just noticed a very nice looking Robinson short stroke joinery saw for sale on woodweb that Mark Hennebury is selling. Might need a transformer but that’s a pretty nice saw that might fit your description.

[Joe Calhoon]

Joe Calhoon is primarily a doormaker and he seems to use a full-size panel saw for a great deal of his work. Of course he also has a smaller Martin T17 on the floor, so it might be worth asking his advice on the subject.

Kevin, My 10' slider does not get used much to the full capacity in solid wood for millwork, doors and windows. I built a kitchen for myself a while back but dont anticipate using much in the way of sheet goods in semi retirement. When I bought the saw 24 years ago we were doing a lot of case work. I have a SLR for ripping. If I did not have that i would be using the larger capacity of the T72 for that. Very safe for ripping using the F&F with rubber edging. see photos. I also use this saw a lot with the MiterX double miter. It turns a large format slider into a bench saw with a accurate adjustable sled. My short stroke Martin T 17 gets used mostly for accurate crosscuts, dados, shaper cutter setups and general joinery. I could actually get by with that for most solid wood work. I keep a cross cut blade in that most of the time and a combo blade in the big slider. most crosscuts in door joinery are fine with the combo. I think I would find the short stroke slider frustrating to use for sheet goods. I would probably use it in combination with the track saw if I had to do that. Funny thing everyone says ripping on a full format slider is awkward. Once I was used to it I like it. I can rip like a conventional TS in the T17 and that feels very weird and dangerous now. The big thing with the large slider is you are away from the path of the blade and using F&F correctly your hands are nowhere near the blade.
In my work If I were in a tight floor space I could get by nicely with a in between 6' or so slider.

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[John Pendery]

Joe, I have a MiterX double miter fence on the way and can’t wait for it to arrive. Been using a modified incra miter gauge for the last couple years, but look forward to the upgrade. I think old habits die hard. I have spent so many years on job sites ripping material against a fence that I still gravitate to the T17 for ripping. I’d like to make the switch to ripping on the slider as you do, but think it might take an accurate parallel stop on the rear end of my sliding table to get me in the habit. I bet you’ve got all kinds of tricks up your sleeve that would change how I work though!

[Joe Calhoon]

You will like the MiterX John!
Parallel stop is for sure more accurate and I use it a lot for length ways miters. Takes a bit of setup though. Using the fence as a bump stop with F&F not quite as accurate because of fence lead out but for me I go through the planer on edge for final sizing.

[Daniel O'Neill]

I have full size slider in my 24' x 24' hobby shop, love being able to rip full 8' on the slider.

Any chance you can post a picture of that setup?

[Pat Rice]

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I have a 2800mm slider which allows me to rip 8’ using my Airtight clamps.

[David William]

Determining space requirements for a full-size panel saw involves considering the sheet cut length times two for the length. It's great that you have 3-phase power for optimal functionality.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

You have enough room there for a 10’ slider. Take my advice: get the 10’ versus the 8’ slider. Most rough lumber is sold in 10’ or longer lengths. I use the slider all the time to straighten edges on rough lumber. I wish I had a 12’!!! Get the biggest sliding table you can afford.

[Nick Crivello]

Pat, the shop is looking good. Very lean and organized.

[John Pendery]

You will like the MiterX John!
Parallel stop is for sure more accurate and I use it a lot for length ways miters. Takes a bit of setup though. Using the fence as a bump stop with F&F not quite as accurate because of fence lead out but for me I go through the planer on edge for final sizing.

I’m waiting very impatiently for the MiterX to arrive! Looking forward just as much if not more to the upcoming door workshop. I imagine it will be an eye opening experience