Red squares

[jack duren]

I’ve been on YouTube and checked out some DIYer woodworkers and I’m always seeing red colored square on the walls or being used. Am I missing something? Is there something with these squares, color, brand?


Do I need red squares?


Anybody know why I’m seeing these square frequently?

is it like the bessy k-body of 2000. Everyone has to have it?

[Michael Burnside]

I put my red squares, made by Woodpeckers, in my layout drawer...

[Tom Trees]

Red is a popular colour in Chinese culture, symbolizing luck, joy, and happiness. It also represents celebration, vitality, and fertility in traditional Chinese colour symbolism..

[jack duren]

I can buy a many square for the shop for the price of the woodpeckers.. Reason I’m trying to understand. Are they magical for layout?

$129

[Dan Barber]

I can buy a many square for the shop for the price of the woodpeckers.. Reason I’m trying to understand. Are they magical for layout?

$129

Yes, they are perfect to use with your track saw.

[jack duren]

That must be it as I don’t have a track saw..

[jack duren]

No… im asking why everyone is buying red squares.


Not what your thinking, Not trying to insult anyone..

[Jared Sankovich]

No… im asking why everyone is buying red squares.


Not what your thinking, Not trying to insult anyone..



The question you should be asking is why would someone spend $120 on a aluminum square of less than perfect (squareness) when one could purchase a set of precision ground machinists squares with an inspection certificate for the same money.

[mike stenson]

ahh another day, another product to gripe about?

probably cheaper than it would be to replace my starrett or mitutoyo squares with new ones.

[Dan Barber]

The question you should be asking is why would someone spend $120 on a aluminum square of less than perfect (squareness) when one could purchase a set of precision ground machinists squares with an inspection certificate for the same money.

Have you ever looked at a Woodpecker square's accuracy? They are very much as square as a machinist square but without a certificate (that's not important to me, I know what's square and what's not).

But that's oaky, this is just another opportunity to bust on people for how they choose to spend their money. I see quite a bit of that here. It's kind of disappointing really...

[jack duren]

I asked about red squares.im just trying to understand why DIYers are buying them.

Simple question…

[Jared Sankovich]

Have you ever looked at a Woodpecker square's accuracy? They are very much as square as a machinist square but without a certificate (that's not important to me, I know what's square and what's not).

But that's oaky, this is just another opportunity to bust on people for how they choose to spend their money. I see quite a bit of that here. It's kind of disappointing really...

The 12x8 is $130 and claimed .001".per foot accuracy a set of spi hardened and ground squares (3x4, 4x6, 5-1/2x9, 7-1/2x12) are $150 or $129 on sale at MSc.

[John Kananis]

The red squares are manufactured by Woodpeckers. They're good quality but don't cost as much as Starrett for instance (nor are they as highly regarded) so they're an in between price and calibur of product (maybe not in between in calibur, they're quite decent).


I asked about red squares.im just trying to understand why DIYers are buying them.

Simple question…


.

[Mike Cutler]

The aluminum needs to be anodized, and red is an eye catching color, so it's a little bit of marketing also. When I raced bicycles everyone anodized the aluminum parts purple and charged more than the guy that anodized them blue.


From Jared
"The question you should be asking is why would someone spend $120 on a aluminum square of less than perfect (squareness) when one could purchase a set of precision ground machinists squares with an inspection certificate for the same money."


If you're buying squares from the red box with white lettering company for only $120.00, you're getting a certificate of conformance from Starrett. If you get an actual NIST report, it's going to cost a lot more than $120.00. Regardless, if the NIST is not maintained, 367 days later, you have a piece of metal, and a piece of paper, and no longer have an " known,accurate" tool in your hands. It will cost you more than $120.00 to run that square back through a lab.
I started my working career when I got out of the Navy in a mechanical standards lab. I was once the guy calibrating those squares, and it was my initials on those pieces of paper, and reports.
I believe that if you go to Pinnacle, or Woodpeckers, websites, the "Red Square" people, they have their certificate of conformance assurance on their website. If their tools, meet their advertised spec's, they're quality tools. For disclosure, I do not own any Woodpecker, or Pinnacle products. My "red square" is from an independent maker.
People should enjoy their tools. 99.99999% of the time, there is no accuracy attribute in a woodworking tool. There is resolution and repeatability. Accuracy only comes when the NIST Certification is maintained.

[jack duren]

I got plenty of squares that are square, but not certified. What else would you do. Pitch all 20 squares and buy a certified square?

[Edward Weber]

People are free to spend their money as they wish.
IMO the OP is wondering why everyone is spending that kind of money on a square when you can get the same results for much less.
The accuracy of the red tools is not in question, what is, is why do people think they need it.
There is a certain school of woodworking that believes that they need machinist level accuracy with their woodworking tools, if that's what you want, that's great, though you can get it at a much lower price.

A square is only as good as the reference surface it's used with. So, unless you use an equally expensive straight edge to check on all you pieces that need square layout lines before you use your square, it's not much help.

The red squares are nothing more than overpriced machinist squares being sold to woodworkers.

Before you all jump down my throat, Overpriced has nothing to do with quality. It simply means it's priced higher than similar competitors tools.
There is nothing wrong with premium priced tools if they help you in some way achieve the final product you're after.
I'll stick with my $20 Shinwa, which is only slightly less accurate.

[jack duren]

People are free to spend their money as they wish.
IMO the OP is wondering why everyone is spending that kind of money on a square when you can get the same results for much less.
The accuracy of the red tools is not in question, what is, is why do people think they need it.
There is a certain school of woodworking that believes that they need machinist level accuracy with their woodworking tools, if that's what you want, that's great, though you can get it at a much lower price.

A square is only as good as the reference surface it's used with. So, unless you use an equally expensive straight edge to check on all you pieces that need square layout lines before you use your square, it's not much help.

The red squares are nothing more than overpriced machinist squares being sold to woodworkers.

Before you all jump down my throat, Overpriced has nothing to do with quality. It simply means it's priced higher than similar competitors tools.
There is nothing wrong with premium priced tools if they help you in some way achieve the final product you're after.
I'll stick with my $20 Shinwa, which is only slightly less accurate.

…………………..x2

[jack duren]

When I was 30 years old ai might have sunk every penny in my career as a cabinet maker. Forward 30 years later. Thank goodness, I found out I didn’t need every gizmo on the market..


if you like it and are will to soon paymoney great, but not always required.

[Frederick Skelly]

As an aside, I have these. They work just fine for a lot of things. https://www.northerntool.com/products/milwaukee-2pc-7in-rafter-square-trim-square-model-mlsq070p-5757483

For the rest, I have a WP square, a Starrett and various engineering squares.

YMMV.

[Mike Cutler]

Edward and Jack

If a person needs an "accurate square", it's very hard to beat the Staedler squares in an office supply store. You can get three of them for less than $10.00.
Groz makes a nice set of fixed squares also. There are three in the box and they're kind of small, but nice for machines, because you can get them into smaller places.
I have one "precision" square, or triangle. It's very large. It was purchased to setup the fence on the slider on my table saw. I use it in conjunction with a 6' Starret rule that lost its NIST certs many years ago, and thus became nothing more than a 6' long paint stirrer. We had actually put it in the scrap metal dumpster. ;)
Woodpecker and Pinnacle have done the work for the end user. They might be expressing their accuracies in +/- inches tolerances for people to understand easier, but I bet their actual spec's are expressed in least, and most, significant digits, machine sample rates in MHZ and baud rates. ;)

[Josko Catipovic]

Chinese squares are a much better deal for the money.

[mike stenson]

Chinese squares are a much better deal for the money.


then we complain that nothing is made in the US anymore. This is exactly why.

[Richard Coers]

I got plenty of squares that are square, but not certified. What else would you do. Pitch all 20 squares and buy a certified square?
As stated in the move O Brother Whee Art Thou , "He's bonafied!"

[jack duren]

Sound like if you got good squares, no what the color your good to go.

Just an observation of the few I watched.

[Edward Weber]

then we complain that nothing is made in the US anymore. This is exactly why.
Tools making today is much different than it used to be.
A competant operator can buy some equipment and manufacturer accurately machined parts. It's more money than know how these days. Meaning almost anyone can do it, it doesn't take a master toolmaker.

Just because the red tools are U.S. made, does not automatically make them better or worse. If I thought those tools were a fair price, I would own them. But I'm not paying a premium for artificially inflated tool prices, no matter who makes them or where.
Just today I got an email about the one of the red tools I considered at one point, the index-able square. While I like the concept, a 12" combination square for $150, on sale, just ridiculous IMO.

JMHO

[Steve Demuth]

They are also frequently red anodized aluminum. So some of the red squares the OP is seeing may well be cheap foreign knock offs.

[glenn bradley]

No… im asking why everyone is buying red squares.


Not what your thinking, Not trying to insult anyone..

It may be that a lot of you-tubers have bought off on those that came before them and have to have a back drop of Woodpecker tools on the wall to enhance their credibility whereas their skills may not(?). I have a few Woodpecker rules that are just great. I also shake my head in wonder at things like their clamp rack or spline jig at $150 or more. It is a world of massive selection and suppliers. Educate yourself, think about your needs, and choose wisely grasshopper :D