Large wall cabinet advise

[Tim Mailloux]

Looking to build a large wall cabinet for the kitchen to hold all the plates, bowls and glassware. It will be a face frame style cabinet approximately 64” wide x 42” tall with 3 equally spaced inset doors and I will be making the cabinet box out of 3/4" thick pre-finished plywood. My wife would like the cabinet to be (1) large box with no divider panels between the doors to maximize storage space apposed to making it out of multiple boxes. My concern is if the cabinet will be strong enough to hold the weight of all the items that will be stored in it. I will be constructing the cabinet box with glue and face screws as all the screws will be concealed by decorative end panels applied to the cabinet box. The face frame will be attached with glue and brad nails. I am also considering having all the shelves fixed to help reinforce the box. Am I over thinking this?

[Paul F Franklin]

I don't think you are over thinking it. That's a very large cabinet and you are putting heavy stuff in it. Instead of a thin back with a hanging rail as is typical for kitchen cabinets, I would use a 3/4 back inset to the sides and secure the sides to the back very well. On my 36 wide by 30 tall wall cabinet, I used steel right angle brackets inside the cabinet at the very top to provide additional reinforcement of the back to side connection. The forces on a cabinet like that are going to try to rip the sides away from the back at the top. Using fixed shelves would also help a lot provided you fasten them to the back of the cabinet as well as to the sides. And make sure you fasten it very well to the studs at the top and bottom of the cabinet.

BTW, if storage capacity is a concern, going to a 14 or 15 deep cabinet really helps. Of course that makes the need for stout construction and mounting even more important.

[Cameron Wood]

Definitely fixed shelves. Inset doors take up some depth so make sure the plates fit. Maybe vertical 3/4" cleats behind the middle face frame stiles with triangular braces under the shelves, since the inset doors have no adjustment.

[Tim Mailloux]

thanks for the advice, I was going to use a 1/2" back panel for strength and don't have an issue going to a full 3/4" thick panel. I will be attaching the fixed shelves the back panel

[Tim Mailloux]

i should have mentioned that my wife wants the cabinet 14" deep

[Tim Mailloux]

When we bought the house many years ago it still had the original 1960’s site built kitchen cabinets. All the uppers were one big open assembly built from plywood and attached with nothing but finish nails ( no glue ). When it came time to demo those things I thought it was going to be a cake walk…….boy was I wrong. Those cabinets were strong as hell!

[George Yetka]

The wall cabinets I just built. Are 27" wide 50" tall and 14" deep to the FF. I havent finished them yet but I ran 3- 6" wide stretchers, 3/4 prefinished ply they will be locked in with adjacent cabinets. My assumption is that everything above the bottom 2 shelves will be lighter unused items.

Also assuming I wont be using #8 Rawl plugs

[Jamie Buxton]

Shelves 64" wide, heavily loaded? Maybe it is made with 3/4" plywood? I'd be concerned about sagging. Look up "sagulator". It is an online calculator which calculates sag for you.

[Kevin Jenness]

That cabinet, even with the shelves fastened to the back and face frame stiles, is likely to sag in the middle without any vertical partitions. I would recommend increasing the shelf thickness, with reference to the sagulator as Jamie said.

[Bill Dufour]

I would add angle iron to the front of each shelf. Will this cabinet sit on the floor, no problem. Hang it from then wall and that is a big cabinet. Now will you lift it into place?
Bill D

[Holmes Anderson]

That cabinet, even with the shelves fastened to the back and face frame stiles, is likely to sag in the middle without any vertical partitions. I would recommend increasing the shelf thickness, with reference to the sagulator as Jamie said.

This type and size of cabinet is often attached to both the wall and the ceiling with nailers in my limited experience. The ceiling nailer provides additional support against sag.

[Kevin Jenness]

This type and size of cabinet is often attached to both the wall and the ceiling with nailers in my limited experience. The ceiling nailer provides additional support against sag.

Yes, if the face frame can be attached solidly to the ceiling framing and the shelves to the face frame that would make for a solid install.

[roger wiegand]

Solid wood shelves dadoed into a structural back and ends won't sag appreciably, even a small lip on the bottom side of the front of the shelf will strengthen them considerably. I think the sagulator calculation will allow for that kind of design. The dividers between the doors can also provide significant support if they are installed as structural elements, perhaps dovetailed, eg not just with a few screws the way face frames are typically put on-- gluing the face frame to the carcass will add a lot of strength as long as the stiles are firmly attached to the rails (a single large half-blind dovetail should do the trick nicely.

For ease of hanging that monster I'd definitely use a French cleat lagged into the studs.

[Bruce Wrenn]

thanks for the advice, I was going to use a 1/2" back panel for strength and don't have an issue going to a full 3/4" thick panel. I will be attaching the fixed shelves the back panelPocket screw them to the face frame at the front. We have a 48" & 30" upper, hanging from floor joist (ceiling) above over our bar. Glassware, plates and bowls are stored in them. They are face frame, with doors on BOTH sides. Been here 43+ years, and cabinets are fine. Rental house next door has same style of cabinets over bar, just hung from blocking resting on bottom chord of trusses.

[Larry Edgerton]

I do it all the time. I like cabinets in one piece rather than a series of boxes screwed together. I use 1/2 backs in a 3/4" rabbit and I screw it on using Roo Glue as I use prefinished. Almost always inset doors, and I have no problem with sag, which would show up with insets. I also do long shelves, and usually fixed, but that is just because I hate the series of holes in Euro boxes. You can put shelf pins in the 1/2" back and in extreme cases in the inside of the face frame is the shelves are adjustable. Face frames get a full 1" M&T and are extremely strong on their own.

I just built a 8' chest of drawers in this manner and out of curiosity left it set in the shop over the weekend with just the outside legs on it to see if it would sag. I piled a bunch of heavy stuff in the drawers and checked it with a long Stabila on Monday morning. No sag. Now, if you are pocket screwing face frames it may be a different story, they are weak. I really think M&T face frames are the key to a strong frame.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I built a 4' wide 8' tall 15" deep cabinet in the kitchen here that sits on the floor. The shelf loading is not as much as if there were heavy dishes everywhere, but there are some heavy things. I used 1/2" maple plywood for the shelves and the ends, and used cherry lumber for the face frame. The cabinet has no back, but each shelf has about a 1x3 support running the full length and screwed into the wall studs behind the cabinet. The drywall acts as the back of the cabinet. It seems quite solid, and I have not had sag problems. I used screws, but not in a pocket setup. The shelves are through screwed from the ends and the face frame. The face frame screw heads are plugged, but the end screw heads are visible. It's not something a lot of people would like but it's good enough for me.

[Dan Chouinard]

I have been making upper cabinets of the size you describe for 15 years without issue. Multiple boxes screwed together look like horse poop and are a waste of material. With all due respect to your wife, I think it is a little silly to be concerned about loosing 1.5 inches of storage in a 64" cabinet. Many reasons to change her thinking about this cabinet in terms of storage flexibility. Most important in that regard is shelf layout. With three separate compartments the shelving in each can be customized for different height items. Look at what she wants to store in the cabinet and bore shelf pin holes only where needed for shelves in each compartment. Center compartment could have two shelves for taller items while adjacent compartments may have three. Additional holes can always be drilled in the future if her preference were to change.
As far as the build is concerned with an inset cabinet, without partitions where are the center door hinge mounting plates going to be fastened? The partitions will also make the cabinet much stronger. Definitely use 1/2" back. 3/4" is way overkill. We dont use prefinished plywood which allows the back to be glued and screwed to the box. Others cabinet makers can better guide you when using prefinished backs.
Enjoy the build and good luck!

[Bruce Wrenn]

We dont use prefinished plywood which allows the back to be glued and screwed to the box. Others cabinet makers can better guide you when using prefinished backs.
Enjoy the build and good luck!I use Titebond Melamine glue to attach prefinished plywood.

[Dan Chouinard]

I use Titebond Melamine glue to attach prefinished plywood.

Thanks for that Bruce. Have you had any opportunities to test the strength of that bond?

[Michael Schuch]

With all these great additions don't forget to factor in the cost of the 10 ton crane and cutting a hole in the roof to install this cabinet.