super surfacer knife grinder?

[Kevin Jenness]

What sort of machine is required to maintain the knives of a super surfacer (fixed knife finish planer)?

[brent stanley]

Hi Kevin, here is a video my Mark Hennebury talking about a dedicated machine for the job, though I expect this may have been the Rolls Royce approach.

https://youtu.be/caixlHgND6I?si=UuZZ-2snef3nHJWS

B

[Bill Dufour]

Surface grinder or maybe a jig to hold the blade on your planer bed then use the planer knife grinder on it.
Bill D

[Richard Coers]

I use a Jet version of the Tormek with a Tormek planer blade attachment for my Makita SS blade. I also do my jointer and planer blades

[Mark Hennebury]

Here is a manual grinder. They have the rough grinder and a super-fine cup wheel for honing a 1deg micro-bevel. the geometry is pretty specific.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfFq8StyQv0

[Richard Coers]

Not bad for a what ,a $5,000 grinder?

[Mark Hennebury]

They are a lot more than that new. But they can earn their keep in the right situations. The are incredible machines, they do an incredible job for sharpening incredible blades that go on incredible machines, that do an incredible job surfacing incredible wood.....I guess you have to appreciate incredible though. :)
Almost forgot the grinders were made in the 70's ...not a bad Return on investment.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRjg8wQIxKQ


Not bad for a what ,a $5,000 grinder?

[John Pendery]

They are a lot more than that new. But they can earn their keep in the right situations. The are incredible machines, they do an incredible job for sharpening incredible blades that go on incredible machines, that do an incredible job surfacing incredible wood.....I guess you have to appreciate incredible though. :)
Almost forgot the grinders were made in the 70's ...not a bad Return on investment.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRjg8wQIxKQ

That right there is incredible!

[Richard Coers]

Here is a manual grinder. They have the rough grinder and a super-fine cup wheel for honing a 1deg micro-bevel. the geometry is pretty specific.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfFq8StyQv0
What is the specific geometry they require? The blade in my Makita super surfacer is a single bevel.

[Matt Tebo]

Kevin,

Kanefusa also makes disposable knives that fit in a dedicated knife holder, eliminating the need to have the grinder. Mark probably knows more about these.

Thanks
Matt

[Mark Hennebury]

hollow ground backs on the blade and back-knife.

Knife Rough grind 30° ± 30´
Knife Lap 31° ± 30´ lap 0.3 - 0.5mm micro bevel.

Back-knife Rough grind 35° ± 30´
Back-knife lap at 65-80° ± 2° micro- bevel is 0.2 - 0.3mm
Round off the edge between the rough-grind and lap face.

Chip-breaker set-back is critical to surface finish
On hardwoods 0.2 - 0.3 mm
On Softwoods 0.3 -0.4 mm
Throat opening 0.4 - 0.5mm
Nose bar protrusion above table 0.04 -0.06

Good starting points, but Experiment with these as it is somewhat dependent on the species and grain of the wood, and the shear angle and the thickness of the shaving.

There is a sweetspot, the perfect relationship of all the variables, once you have witnessed it it is like a drug, a bright light, where you need to stay, the sound of a razor-sharp knife slicing through wood fiber's, a beautiful delicate shaving, remarkable separating from the wood surface and gracefully floating down, and the wood surface, shimmering in high definition, with deep vibrant color's every pore clean and visible, smooth a silk.
The pursuit of absolute.


What is the specific geometry they require? The blade in my Makita super surfacer is a single bevel.

[Mark Hennebury]

What fun is that?:)
Yes you can get disposable knives, with a special knife holder, apparently they do a great job, I have not used them but have bought them in for customers.

Kanefusa make awesome cutting tools! Best router bit that I ever had was a Kanefusa.


Kevin,

Kanefusa also makes disposable knives that fit in a dedicated knife holder, eliminating the need to have the grinder. Mark probably knows more about these.

Thanks
Matt

[Bradley Gray]

A bit of a post ambush. I have been interested in super surfacers since Makita USA released theirs about 40 years ago. I noticed several used machines for sale on ebay from japan - 100 volt. Is it possible to power these in the US?

[Brian Holcombe]

I use the Kanefusa disposable knives, they're excellent.

[Mark Hennebury]

This is a video made in Japan in the 80's i believe. A study of the relationship between several variable's in chip-breaker set-up; shaving thickness - chip-breaker lap angle - chip-breaker setback from the knife cutting edge and the resulting effect on the wood finish. It is quite fascinating. A great educational video for anyone using handplanes or supersurfacers


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19lTQHX3i34

[Mark Hennebury]

Messing with the supersurfacer to see how fine of a shaving i could get


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[Cameron Wood]

A bit of a post ambush. I have been interested in super surfacers since Makita USA released theirs about 40 years ago. I noticed several used machines for sale on ebay from japan - 100 volt. Is it possible to power these in the US?


I have several 100V tools & use this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056BC7FE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

They come different sizes/ratings. Quite heavy, & I think mine pulls 40W on standby so I turn it off when not in use.

Power tools from Japan can be a bargain and in some cases have no US equivalent. I recently got a 12 1/4" power plane for $280 shipped.

[brent stanley]

Messing with the supersurfacer to see how fine of a shaving i could get


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Wow. If you don't have a grinder system, is it at all practical to do the sharpening at home or will you be looking to send them out for sharpening? And if you are sending them out for sharpening, are they something a reasonably equipped sharpening outfit could sharpen?

[Cameron Wood]

Don't send knives like that to my local sharpening shop- they might come back worse than they went out.

[Bradley Gray]

I have several 100V tools & use this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056BC7FE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1)



Thanks. I'm going to watch the ebay listings and look for a good one.

[Richard Coers]

Thanks. I'm going to watch the ebay listings and look for a good one.
Would you be interested in a Makita LP1812C in Peoria, IL? It's like new. Still has the protective film on the remote and new blade in the package. Extension tables in the original box.

[Cameron Wood]

More to fill in one's knowledge of these machines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-E9LqxJ5IY

[Mark Hennebury]

I got very frustrated, very fast sending knives and router bits out to be sharpened, I bought a Marunaka Grinder/ lapper that did all of my straight knives, and i bought a huge tool and cutter grinder for router bits etc.
I dont know if any grinding shops grind and lap straight knives, The rough grind from the Marunaka was better than any grind from a commercial sharpening shop that I had used. You can of course do the finish lap yourself with a handheld stone.
I never found anyone that could/ would sharpen the Kanefusa router bit, micro-grain carbide with a mirror finish. That was decades ago, maybe different these days..


Wow. If you don't have a grinder system, is it at all practical to do the sharpening at home or will you be looking to send them out for sharpening? And if you are sending them out for sharpening, are they something a reasonably equipped sharpening outfit could sharpen?

Chip-breaker setup jig with micrometer adjustment to precisely set the distance from the cutting edge to the chipbreaker edge
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Hembrug tool and cutter grinder
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Marunaka Manual grinder/ lapper
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[Zachary Hoyt]

The super surfacer looks like a really neat machine, but more than I would ever need or likely have space for. I was thinking that those giant shavings would work really well for starting fires in a wood stove, and that got me wondering what you do with them when you have a lot to deal with. Can you give them away easily, or do you have a use for them in the shop?

[Mark Hennebury]

There are some small supersurfacers. Makita, Hitachi and Ryobi introduced them into the US in the 80's .
Mostly just threw out the shavings, got so many.



The super surfacer looks like a really neat machine, but more than I would ever need or likely have space for. I was thinking that those giant shavings would work really well for starting fires in a wood stove, and that got me wondering what you do with them when you have a lot to deal with. Can you give them away easily, or do you have a use for them in the shop?

[Mark Hennebury]

Chipbreaker variables blades are wedges and want to split the wood fiber's, chipbreakers help to prevent the splitting ahead of the cutting edge allowing the cutting edge to cut the fiber's Created by Professor Yasunori Kawai and Honorary Professor Chutaro Kato, Faculty of Education, Art and Science, Yamagata University. Video taken in Yamagata Prefecture, Japan.

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[Mark Hennebury]

a few more -photos Created by Professor Yasunori Kawai and Honorary Professor Chutaro Kato, Faculty of Education, Art and Science, Yamagata University. Video taken in Yamagata Prefecture, Japan.

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[Kevin Jenness]

Would you be interested in a Makita LP1812C in Peoria, IL? It's like new. Still has the protective film on the remote and new blade in the package. Extension tables in the original box.

I am interested if Bradley doesn't jump on it. Send me a pm.

[Bradley Gray]

Richard, I may be interested. I sent you an email.

[Richard Coers]

Richard, I may be interested. I sent you an email.
I didn't get an email Bradley. I'll send in the money to become a contributor tomorrow so we can start a conversation here. I don't imagine I can post my email address here.

[Bradley Gray]

Short money for a good cause. Send me a message and I will reply.

[Richard Coers]

I'm not sure my private message went through. I had trouble posting the picture, it didn't give me the option to download from my computer.
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[Bradley Gray]

Richard, I sent you a message.

[Jon Dobrowolski]

Hi Richard. I am a recent new member. I just now saw your post dated January 9, 2024 regarding the Makita LP1812C. If by some chance it is still available please let me now. Thanks Jon Dobrowolski
Would you be interested in a Makita LP1812C in Peoria, IL? It's like new. Still has the protective film on the remote and new blade in the package. Extension tables in the original box.

[Richard Coers]

I sent you a private message Jon.

[John Pendery]

I'm not sure my private message went through. I had trouble posting the picture, it didn't give me the option to download from my computer.
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Richard, I tried sending a private message, but I’m not sure I sent it correctly. I’m not trying to skip ahead of Jon, but if he doesn’t buy your machine I’m interested. I drive through Peoria several times a year, so shipping won’t be an issue. Again, not trying to edge out Jon, just getting in line behind him. Thanks!