Shopping for a new beast of a planer

[dirk martin]

Hey gang....
Right now I've got a Woodmaster planer, with a 7.5" motor and spiral head.
I'm considering a serious upgrade, now that end of year says I can afford it.
I'm looking at the Laguna P25 (https://www.elitemetaltools.com/tool-shop/products/laguna-tools-p25-25-industrial-planer?sku=MPLAN25-10-1-0130)

My favorite features:
Digital setting of cut depth
Variable speed feed
Anything over 15" of width is plenty for me
Minimum thickness it can plane, is 1/8. I do a ton of thin material.


Any other suggestions besides this Laguna model?
Must be single phase.

[Jared Sankovich]

Hey gang....
Right now I've got a Woodmaster planer, with a 7.5" motor and spiral head.
I'm considering a serious upgrade, now that end of year says I can afford it.
I'm looking at the Laguna P25 (https://www.elitemetaltools.com/tool-shop/products/laguna-tools-p25-25-industrial-planer?sku=MPLAN25-10-1-0130)

My favorite features:
Digital setting of cut depth
Variable speed feed
Anything over 15" of width is plenty for me
Minimum thickness it can plane, is 1/8. I do a ton of thin material.


Any other suggestions besides this Laguna model?
Must be single phase.


At that price point I'd be looking at a used low mileage scmi s630 or s520 and a phase perfect.

If sticking to new Pacific rim machines cantek seems to be well liked.

[Brian Gumpper]

If you like that machine, save a little money.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-25-15-hp-3-phase-extreme-series-planer-w-helical-cutterhead/g0603x

Same machine, different color and I kept getting a 5% discount offer.

[Bill Dufour]

Only one 5" dust port? My Powermatic 18" has one 6" dust port.
Bill D

[Larry Edgerton]

I have a SCMI 520S and it is all the things you want, except single phase. I went with the Tersa Head and would never have anything else at this point. Changing all 4 knives takes 4 minutes, better cuts than my previous PM with a Byrd. Its a 4 speed, which I actually prefer to electronic speed control. 16-72FPM. Almost no sanding.

[Richard Coers]

If you really want a beast, buy some old iron. I had a 24" Yates American and it had variable speed and could take 3/8" off a board with not so much as a whimper.

[dirk martin]

Brian, that's 3phase. I'm set up for single phase.

[dirk martin]

Only one 5" dust port? My Powermatic 18" has one 6" dust port.
Bill D

Bill, do you really think I'll notice the difference?

[dirk martin]

If you really want a beast, buy some old iron. I had a 24" Yates American and it had variable speed and could take 3/8" off a board with not so much as a whimper.

Richard, it it single phase? Does it have electronic table positioning? Can it plane down to 1/8"....or 1/4"

[dirk martin]

I have a SCMI 520S and it is all the things you want, except single phase. I went with the Tersa Head and would never have anything else at this point. Changing all 4 knives takes 4 minutes, better cuts than my previous PM with a Byrd. Its a 4 speed, which I actually prefer to electronic speed control. 16-72FPM. Almost no sanding.

Very nice machine, Larry. I think the Tersa head would be fine too, and I love the quick change...but that 3phase requirement, is kind of a show stopper.

[dirk martin]

I was considering Laguna's PX22 at 7.5 horse, single phase. Even has the segmented infeed roller, and digital read out.
At $8,200 I'd save a lot of money.

I wonder how much differnece i'd notice, planing with 7.5hp vs 10hp.
Anyone have insight on that?

Looks like the Laguna P25 normally comes with 15hp, but the one on the link at the top of this thread, is 10hp....which keeps it at single phase. The planer is expensive enuf, that I don't need to throw on a $3k (or more) phase changer. And, I'm more than fine planing down no lower than 1/4"....and then finishing off on the sander. I'd like to go SCM, but they jump to 3phase right away when we get to this league.

[Richard Coers]

Richard, it it single phase? Does it have electronic table positioning? Can it plane down to 1/8"....or 1/4"
I said "I had". Sold it about 5 years ago. It was 3 phase, way too old for electronic table positioning, and if you dropped the big bed rollers it would do 1/4" stock. Too much distance from the chip breaker and pressure bar to the head to do 1/8" stock.
513472

[dirk martin]

I have a SCMI 520S and it is all the things you want, except single phase. I went with the Tersa Head and would never have anything else at this point. Changing all 4 knives takes 4 minutes, better cuts than my previous PM with a Byrd. Its a 4 speed, which I actually prefer to electronic speed control. 16-72FPM. Almost no sanding.

I looked into this more, Larry, and I'm finding it for roughly $15,100. Adding a Phase Perfect (15HP 230V Digital Phase Converter) is another $5,200.
So, we're starting to get well above the Laguna P25. Looks like the SCMI is 11hp, and the P25 is 10hp. So, no difference there.

[dirk martin]

I said "I had". Sold it about 5 years ago. It was 3 phase, way too old for electronic table positioning, and if you dropped the big bed rollers it would do 1/4" stock. Too much distance from the chip breaker and pressure bar to the head to do 1/8" stock.
513472

I see. Well, 1/4" would be fine, actually. I can sand my stock down to 1/8", just fine.

[Larry Edgerton]

Very nice machine, Larry. I think the Tersa head would be fine too, and I love the quick change...but that 3phase requirement, is kind of a show stopper.

I run my whole shop on a converter. 3 phase is not available here. Once you have a converter, all other 3 phase equipment is a possibility. Rotary converters are fairly cheap. Phase Perfect is nice, but not a necessity. I would not be afraid of a used SCMI or equivalent, Mine has run hard for 25 years and , has never failed. I see them on the used market for around $5k, as are other premium brands.

You are on the right track, having this planer has been a great thing. Repeatability, quiet, and did I mention repeatability? Its nice to watch the readout and know that .75 is always .75. Having had both, I seriously have to recommend a Tersa, just so simple and fast. Quiet because it has no gullet, and the cut is as it gets. Power height adjustment is awesome. Whatever you get have fun!

[Larry Edgerton]

I run my whole shop on a converter. 3 phase is not available here. Once you have a converter, all other 3 phase equipment is a possibility. Rotary converters are fairly cheap. Phase Perfect is nice, but not a necessity. I would not be afraid of a used SCMI or equivalent, Mine has run hard for 25 years and , has never failed. I see them on the used market for around $5k, as are other premium brands.

You are on the right track, having this planer has been a great thing. Repeatability, quiet, and did I mention repeatability? Its nice to watch the readout and know that .75 is always .75. Having had both, I seriously have to recommend a Tersa, just so simple and fast. Quiet because it has no gullet, and the cut is as it gets. Power height adjustment is awesome. Whatever you get have fun!

I bought mine at a trade show, the floor model and saved a ton as they did not have to take it home. Just a thought......

[Phillip Mitchell]

You have already had several good recommendations to look for good condition used 3 phase industrial + a phase converter.

You're going to have a hard time finding something in this build quality range in single phase and there's a reason for it. Most real, truly heavy duty planers are 3 phase. I would not put new Laguna in the same category of quality as industrial Euro brands like SCMI, etc.

When I upgraded my planer in 2019 (to an older 20" 9hp SCM with Pro Scale DRO), choose to add a phase converter at the same time to open up my options for a more industrial machine. It started with a used Kay RPC and now I have a Phase Perfect and almost all of my main machines are 3 phase. I am in a small shop in my walkout basement, not an industrial space, fyi. Very glad I made that's choice and have the option of used 3 phase equipment.

Is there a reason you seem set against adding in a converter and considering 3 phase?

Edit: I just looked up the price on the Laguna (!?!) You seem to have ample budget for a nice condition, newer, used SCMI with digital bed positioning and readout and Tersa head or similar and a top of the line phase converter (Phase Perfect)...and maybe even some leftover.

[Kevin Jenness]

I agree with Philip and Larry. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a good used machine like an SCMI, especially with a Tersa or helical head, and a phase converter. A rotary phase converter opens up the door to a universe of industrial machinery and need not be that expensive.

[Alan Lightstone]

With digital electronics, do you need a Phase Perfect, or will a rotary converter fry the electronics? Not suggesting anything, just don't know the answer to that.

I just took the Phase Perfect route and a Felder D951 planer. Love it, and much cheaper, but not 25" of course, but you said anything over 16" would work (it's 19-7/8"). The Digi-Drive and Power-Drive are really fantastic.

[Larry Edgerton]

With digital electronics, do you need a Phase Perfect, or will a rotary converter fry the electronics? Not suggesting anything, just don't know the answer to that.

I just took the Phase Perfect route and a Felder D951 planer. Love it, and much cheaper, but not 25" of course, but you said anything over 16" would work (it's 19-7/8"). The Digi-Drive and Power-Drive are really fantastic.

Not sure about that? Mine is a mechanical readout like an odometer. I actually prefer it, nothing to go wrong and it has been perfect for many years. I kid that I check my dial caliper with my planer once in a while. You do have to raise the table with a pair of switches, one high speed, and a fine adjustment button, but its easy. As long as it does not have a crank!

Be curious about that question? I have a 50HP RPC, can't afford a PP that large.

[andrew whicker]

I think you should get this:

https://360degreemachinery.com/shop/certified-pre-owned-machinery/buss-model-dl-30-x-8-planer/

[Bill Dufour]

I have to ask do you have enough amps to run that machine on single phase? A vfd will give you soft start and reduce starting amps by a large percentage.
Bill D

[Nick Crivello]

Two options to consider:

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tls/d/sun-valley-new-ironwood-p500-planer/7705016160.html
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tls/d/sun-valley-ismi-planer/7705016018.html

Edit to add:

24" 299D 10hp Oliver planer
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/tls/d/orange-oliver-planer/7699972742.html

[Warren Lake]

now thats a beast. US made some serious machinery.

[Larry Edgerton]

Two options to consider:


https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tls/d/sun-valley-ismi-planer/7705016018.html



This is a screaming deal! Hell, I'd buy it if it wasn't on the wrong coast and I already have one. Don't wait or it will be gone.

[Jared Sankovich]

[QUOTE=Nick Crivello;3294419]Two options to consider:


https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/tls/d/sun-valley-ismi-planer/7705016018.html

UOTE]

This is a screaming deal! Hell, I'd buy it if it wasn't on the wrong coast and I already have one. Don't wait or it will be gone.

Same here. Seller has no idea. 5hp in the ad and 33 amps on the data plate.

[Nick Crivello]

I thought the 24” Oliver with spiral head at $4k wasn’t too shabby…

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Here is a big one far away up for auction. I have used a shaper and a drum sander made by Woodmaster. They are both excellent machines. This planer shares the same design ascetic as the sander and shaper, with weldments prevailing over castings.

https://www.purplewave.com/auction/240131/item/DP8795/Woodmaster-W-725-Machine_Tools-Woodworking_Equip.-Texas

[dirk martin]

Is there a reason you seem set against adding in a converter and considering 3 phase?



Mainly because I wanted to stay with a new machine, and not used.
But, perhaps I need to adjust my thinking.
So, not being familiar with the used planer market, where do I search for something like this?

Here's my new desires:

Used ok.
$16K or under, including a phase converter. I think the needed Phase Perfect would run about $3k, thus leaving $13k for the planer.
20" or wider.
Digital bed positioning, and readout.
Tersa head, or spiral.
Minimum stock thickness 1/4"

Nice, but not Must Have:
Segmented infeed (sectional infeed)
Infinite variable infeed speed

Where do I look for a used quality machine like this? I'm in Wisconsin.

[Nick Crivello]

You did say beastly, right??

https://bloomington.craigslist.org/tls/d/bloomington-36-oliver-planer/7698017588.html

[andrew whicker]

That's a huge budget and you live in the rust belt.

Go used and you can get nearly anything your heart desires.

[dirk martin]

You did say beastly, right??

https://bloomington.craigslist.org/tls/d/bloomington-36-oliver-planer/7698017588.html


Clearly that would have a digital read out, yes?
lol

[Bill Dufour]

Clearly that would have a digital read out, yes?
lol
You should be able to get someone to buy and install one for well under $3,000.
Bill D

[Nick Crivello]

Clearly that would have a digital read out, yes?
lol

you could certainly add it. That one is allegedly a complete package; converter, transformer, hell it even comes with the dust collection..

[Patrick Kane]

That SCMI is a very good deal in LA. I thought that was where the OP was located, which would mean the end of this discussion. I see he is in Wisconsin now. I would search Facebook Marketplace, Wood Web, and Craigslist. You can also peruse the auction sites, but I think you are better off seeing the machine in person before committing. With most auctions, it is hard to get that chance.

You didnt say what you make. Also, what is your current machine?

If you are currently getting by with a 15-20" import 4 post planer, then i think

(3) Marketplace - SCMI S52 20" Planer 3ph | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/771057908196962/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A9c7d9745-f212-475a-9cc5-d0ff635ebc36) or (3) Marketplace - S630 24" SCMI Planer | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1071380617324791/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A9c7d9745-f212-475a-9cc5-d0ff635ebc36) would be solid upgrade budget machines. It definitely frees up enough room in the budget for a phase converter, and adding a small widebelt sander. Depending on what you do with your 1/8" pieces--are these bent laminations for spiral staircases and railings?--you might be better served with finishing to final dimension with a sander. A fair amount of knowledgeable guys have good things to say about the 15-16" cantilevered import widebelts that at maybe $5-6,000. I assume your 1/8" thick pieces are under 20" in width.

(3) Marketplace - 24” planer EMA | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/203235502622386/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A9c7d9745-f212-475a-9cc5-d0ff635ebc36) while these are generally considered a very robust planer, i think this is getting older than you want and more prone to being a headache if it breaks.

If you really want a one-and-done planer, and you can be patient, then i would wait around for a white(newer) SCM s 630 that should have interchangeable rollers. You can swap out the outfeed rollers for rubber coated ones. Maybe you get lucky and find a xylent cutterhead, but the standard tersa is just fine. I have a 20" tersa head jointer and it gives me a better surface finish than my 20" byrd head planer. I would expect to max out your budget with a phase converter for this option.

I was in a similar situation as you years ago. When you want better quality than a 20" import planer, but are limited on power etc. it is a very shallow pool of choices. The Oliver 299 is actually one of the better choices for a high quality planer that doesnt occupy a massive footprint and typically only has a 5-7.5hp motor. I cannot power a 10+ motor along with my cyclone on my home's current service. I ended up just stomaching my 20" powermatic planer with the intent of moving one day. I also toned down my side hustle wwing business as my primary job skyrocketed.

[Derek Kessler]

I have a SCMI 520S and it is all the things you want, except single phase. I went with the Tersa Head and would never have anything else at this point. Changing all 4 knives takes 4 minutes, better cuts than my previous PM with a Byrd. Its a 4 speed, which I actually prefer to electronic speed control. 16-72FPM. Almost no sanding.

Great machine you got there.

[Robert London]

Here’s one of the few machines in 10 hp with single phase. Powered movement, segmented infeed.

https://baileigh.com/woodworking/wood-machinery-specials/numerically-controlled-planer-ip-2509-hd

[Justin Rapp]

Here’s one of the few machines in 10 hp with single phase. Powered movement, segmented infeed.

https://baileigh.com/woodworking/wood-machinery-specials/numerically-controlled-planer-ip-2509-hd

That is the exact same as the Laguna with a different paint job, for about $1000 less. Not bad!

[Robert Hayward]

You did say beastly, right??

https://bloomington.craigslist.org/tls/d/bloomington-36-oliver-planer/7698017588.html

Do they even make planers that wide any more?

[dirk martin]

You didnt say what you make. Also, what is your current machine?

If you are currently getting by with a 15-20" import 4 post planer, then i think

(3) Marketplace - SCMI S52 20" Planer 3ph | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/771057908196962/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A9c7d9745-f212-475a-9cc5-d0ff635ebc36) or (3) Marketplace - S630 24" SCMI Planer | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1071380617324791/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A9c7d9745-f212-475a-9cc5-d0ff635ebc36)

(3) Marketplace - 24” planer EMA | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/203235502622386/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A9c7d9745-f212-475a-9cc5-d0ff635ebc36)

If you really want a one-and-done planer, and you can be patient, then i would wait around for a white(newer) SCM s 630 that should have interchangeable rollers. You can swap out the outfeed rollers for rubber coated ones. Maybe you get lucky and find a xylent cutterhead, but the standard tersa is just fine. I have a 20" tersa head jointer and it gives me a better surface finish than my 20" byrd head planer. I would expect to max out your budget with a phase converter for this option.


Thanks for the reply, Patrick. I'm currently using a Woodmaster 15" with spiral head. And, I have two 15" Grizzly widebelts. I'm getting a 30" dual drumsander, tomorrow.

Really appreciate the Marketplace searches.
I rule out the SCMI S52, because I really want a fully electronic read out, along with digital bed movement.
I rule out the S630, because too many features weren't working (I spoke w/seller).
I rule out the EMA planer, because it's non-digital.

Indeed, I do plan on doing my final finishing on my new drumsander, but being able to plane down close to final dimensions, helps with production time. I supply the crafters marketplace with wood premilled to exact specs, both thick and thin...however being able to mill the thin stock, is the most challenging. Most of my 1/8" pieces are under 15".

I too think I may need to wait for a newer S630, or a Felder, or a Minimax, or who knows. I'm not well versed on machines at this level of quality, so this thread is helping me a lot.

[dirk martin]

Here’s one of the few machines in 10 hp with single phase. Powered movement, segmented infeed.

https://baileigh.com/woodworking/wood-machinery-specials/numerically-controlled-planer-ip-2509-hd

Wow...this could be my solution, Robert....
I wonder if I can swap the outfeed rollers, for something rubber....
I'm not familiar with Baileigh brand. Anyone else know of them?

[Phillip Mitchell]

Just a note that you can add an aftermarket digital read out to the planer bed raise and lower that is of equal or higher quality than what is integrated into the OEM package, even on this higher end Euro equipment. I have an Accurate Technologies Pro Scale DRO on my older SCM planer, and it is accurate to within 0.001” across the entire width of the 20” bed. Of course, you have to be able to set knives parallel to the bed to the same tolerance for that to be fully utilized (and I do) but this is easier/eliminated with an indexed cutter head.

I would argue that something like a Pro Scale might even be preferred long term as they are easier to service / replace parts for if and when something goes wrong years down the line compared to something that was integrated into the machine by the OEM that is likely to change specs and details over time as the models receive factory updates, etc.

My planer does not have automated / digital bed positioning, but does have a motorized rise and fall with a switch and fine adjust with a hand wheel. This is simple and future proof, imo, but I do understand the convenience of digital bed positioning in certain production situations.

Just for reference, I have about $2000 into this machine as it sits and it is accurate to within 0.001” across the entire bed width, has a top quality DRO, can plane down to 1/8” and up to 9”, and can take anywhere between minimal / 1/64” and ~1/4”+ passes and do it all day. A Tersa style head would be a nice convenience eventually, but quality HSS set accurately can produce remarkable results. You can get what you need easily within your budget or perhaps considerably less and can afford a machine that is much higher quality / multigenerational machine that isn’t Chaiwanese if you look used and 3 phase.

[Warren Lake]

What was the cost of the digital scale approx? I get by without that stuff and dont need a power table as the invincible is so smooth its easy to raise then its only 300 MM approx. Have a wadkin to bring to life (24") and its powered and has a hand crank that is a pain compared to the SCM but the table is serious weight compared and its the lighter of the two wadkins actually the middle one as there is one lighter one. I priced a tersa for it and it was about 7k if I understood all. For your knife accuracy which is very good are you getting that off the grinder or setting them in. Past experience shops that grind dont get stuff that straight so I arrive at a fine level with a bit of tapping.

[Phillip Mitchell]

What was the cost of the digital scale approx? I get by without that stuff and dont need a power table as the invincible is so smooth its easy to raise then its only 300 MM approx. Have a wadkin to bring to life (24") and its powered and has a hand crank that is a pain compared to the SCM but the table is serious weight compared and its the lighter of the two wadkins actually the middle one as there is one lighter one. I priced a tersa for it and it was about 7k if I understood all. For your knife accuracy which is very good are you getting that off the grinder or setting them in. Past experience shops that grind dont get stuff that straight so I arrive at a fine level with a bit of tapping.

Last I checked the Pro Scale DRO is around $400. I think I got mine for less when they were having an annual sale a handful of years back. Of course, there is Wixey for ~1/3 the cost, but I don't think it matches Pro Scale in quality, longevity, precision or customer support...so you get what you pay for.

The DRO has changed my world when planing; I would not want to be without it at this point from a workflow and efficiency standpoint. I do prefer something aftermarket like the Pro Scale, though compared to an integrated OEM supplied unit as something will inevitably go haywire with it and accessing and servicing it will likely be less straightforward than dealing with Pro Scale, who you can call and easily source and replace any part of the system. Just my opinion, of course...I like DRO, but I do not really like onboard, integrated computer / automated stuff on my machines from a long term reliability POV...personal preference as someone who works on their own machines when they need it and values the simplicity of analog most of the time.

What model is the Wadkin? T630?

I am not using the grinder these days on the L'invincibile as it needs a new wheel and a bit of tune up and I just haven't had the time to sort it all out 100%. I've actually taken it off the machine since the above photo was taken, but have it stored for another day.

I'm setting knives with Panhans magnetic knife setting guides/blocks and a dial indicator on mag base stuck to the bed. I have the mag guides set precisely at this point and use them to set, then check/verify with dial and lightly tap while final tightening as needed but it's usually extremely close or dead on with the magnetic guides. I have a few sets of nice HSS knives from CGG Schmidt and they stay sharp and cut beautifully for quite a while as long as I don't send junk through them.

[Jim Becker]

I'm not familiar with Baileigh brand. Anyone else know of them?
They were a vendor sponsor of this forum for awhile back when vendor advertising was more prevalent. A number of 'Creekers have machines from them. AFAIK, they source machines about the same way as many other sellers so it's likely that the same machine is available in "multiple colors". I have no personal experience with the company.

[Tom Yaegle]

I had boards planned by 3 different planers when I was fighting over my planer head. One was a Laguna, it was the worst for scallops. It was not a new model so maybe not a problem any more? Just something else to think on.

[Patrick Kane]

Thanks for the reply, Patrick. I'm currently using a Woodmaster 15" with spiral head. And, I have two 15" Grizzly widebelts. I'm getting a 30" dual drumsander, tomorrow.

Really appreciate the Marketplace searches.
I rule out the SCMI S52, because I really want a fully electronic read out, along with digital bed movement.
I rule out the S630, because too many features weren't working (I spoke w/seller).
I rule out the EMA planer, because it's non-digital.

Indeed, I do plan on doing my final finishing on my new drumsander, but being able to plane down close to final dimensions, helps with production time. I supply the crafters marketplace with wood premilled to exact specs, both thick and thin...however being able to mill the thin stock, is the most challenging. Most of my 1/8" pieces are under 15".

I too think I may need to wait for a newer S630, or a Felder, or a Minimax, or who knows. I'm not well versed on machines at this level of quality, so this thread is helping me a lot.

Personally, i would wait out a newer SCM too. Those green/cream models are from the 90s--which isnt as recent as i wish it was. Ultimately, you are talking $4-5,000 between a decades newer machine, and i think the premium is worth it. Everyone;s situation is different. I would feel differently about the EMA if it were cheaper. Unitronix/Fortis/Gomad/DSMC all look identical, and they are very stout 24" planers that TYPICALLY sell for fairly cheap, because of the generic names. Ive seen these well under $3,000 every now and then, and combined with Phillip's setup, could be a formidable workhorse.

Are these super figured pieces? How much lumber are you processing? Are you hand jointing all this lumber? If you are ripping through 10,000 board feet of rough cut a year, then you might want to think about a small S4S and not a tricked out planer.

[Warren Lake]

thanks Phillip. The digital is a thing I dont really need but would consider it. If planing its usually one setting and dialing in is maybe one minute slower or half of that. If you want to match a board thickness to another then just run the board in stop the feed wind the table down till you hear the knives and it will be the same. Likely id enjoy, thanks for the brand and price. The Wadkin is a BAJ which was their mid level 24" planer. Forgotten the details as I put time into it when I got it, found issues and been too busy since. The knives you got from Schimdt are they 18 percent tungsten? I have another jointer that is wired and I had cut knives for it from Dimar only to measure and find one of four is thinner. I checked that after reading Mel that you want all your knives from the same bar stock. Likely mentioned it for Shaper but its a good thought and will go to Dimar when i have time.

[dirk martin]

Are these super figured pieces? How much lumber are you processing? Are you hand jointing all this lumber? If you are ripping through 10,000 board feet of rough cut a year, then you might want to think about a small S4S and not a tricked out planer.

i do work with a lot of curly and quilted stock. 10K BF/year...at least.

Small S4S? Do they make those? Every one I've seen, are monsters.

[Patrick Kane]

i do work with a lot of curly and quilted stock. 10K BF/year...at least.

Small S4S? Do they make those? Every one I've seen, are monsters.

Sure, the 5 and 6 head moulders are more common, but there are smaller 4 head machines. Wadkin, Weinig, and SCMI are a few manufacturers of the smaller machines. I havent seen one in person in maybe 7 years, but i remember it was about the same footprint as my 20" jointer, just chest height with the cutterhead enclosure/controls etc. The length and width werent overwhelming.

SCMI SINTEX MOULDER 4 SIDED S4S PLANER (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vTLMW2j3nk)
Michael Weinig Q23P 4 HeadFeed Through Moulder (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqWz3MAP9kc)

I found two short youtube videos of the smaller machines to give you an idea of size. Have you spent anytime on WoodWeb? I would go poke around and try to find smaller shops that made the switch. Ask to talk to them for 5-10 mins, and you will have a better understanding of where to spend your $16,000. I remember years ago when i made countertops that i was constantly searching for efficiencies in the milling process. After speaking with a few pros, they recommended making the switch to a moulder when you surpass the 6-7,000 bdft a year mark. I was right around that point. As you know, that is a ton of man hours spent at the jointer and planer. Depending on the starting material, that is also a decent amount of wear and tear on your body. I remember i would be pretty sore after a full day of manually dressing a stack of 8/4.

Im really complicating your situation, because a small moulder will absolutely require a phase converter. Also, what is your main service? I think i heard in the video that SCMI had TWO motors of 7.5hp and 9hp. That is going to pull some amps. Finally, i recall guys recommending to take a hard look at DC, because these machines put out chips.

We can debate planers--and i love talking machines--but i would take 3 steps back and think about workflow and where your bottlenecks are. I think one thing is for certain, you need to find a means of powering 3 phase equipment for your future.

[Curt Harms]

Wow...this could be my solution, Robert....
I wonder if I can swap the outfeed rollers, for something rubber....
I'm not familiar with Baileigh brand. Anyone else know of them?

I don't know where you are in Wisconsin but Baileigh's web site shows an address of 1625 Dufek Dr. Manitowoc WI. 54220 920-684-4980. They used to have a showroom in that area, don't know if they still do or not. It would be worth a call I'd think.

[Jared Sankovich]

Sure, the 5 and 6 head moulders are more common, but there are smaller 4 head machines. Wadkin, Weinig, and SCMI are a few manufacturers of the smaller machines. I havent seen one in person in maybe 7 years, but i remember it was about the same footprint as my 20" jointer, just chest height with the cutterhead enclosure/controls etc. The length and width werent overwhelming.

SCMI SINTEX MOULDER 4 SIDED S4S PLANER (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vTLMW2j3nk)
Michael Weinig Q23P 4 HeadFeed Through Moulder (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqWz3MAP9kc)

I found two short youtube videos of the smaller machines to give you an idea of size. Have you spent anytime on WoodWeb? I would go poke around and try to find smaller shops that made the switch. Ask to talk to them for 5-10 mins, and you will have a better understanding of where to spend your $16,000. I remember years ago when i made countertops that i was constantly searching for efficiencies in the milling process. After speaking with a few pros, they recommended making the switch to a moulder when you surpass the 6-7,000 bdft a year mark. I was right around that point. As you know, that is a ton of man hours spent at the jointer and planer. Depending on the starting material, that is also a decent amount of wear and tear on your body. I remember i would be pretty sore after a full day of manually dressing a stack of 8/4.

Im really complicating your situation, because a small moulder will absolutely require a phase converter. Also, what is your main service? I think i heard in the video that SCMI had TWO motors of 7.5hp and 9hp. That is going to pull some amps. Finally, i recall guys recommending to take a hard look at DC, because these machines put out chips.

We can debate planers--and i love talking machines--but i would take 3 steps back and think about workflow and where your bottlenecks are. I think one thing is for certain, you need to find a means of powering 3 phase equipment for your future.

Width capacity is usually the big limiting factor on s4s machines. Imho a 4x7" 4 head doesn't replace a 20 or 24" planer.

[Patrick Kane]

Width capacity is usually the big limiting factor on s4s machines. Imho a 4x7" 4 head doesn't replace a 20 or 24" planer.

Definitely, i dont disagree with you for a typical FURNITURE shop's needs. However, the OP sounds like he is processing lumber to set dimensions and not really building a project. For example, he doesnt make it seem like he is gluing panels etc. or coming anywhere near the capacity or capability that a 24" single sided planer offers. Now, there are 1,000 different reasons to buy a 24" planer without needing 24" of width capacity, but im offering the potential consideration of the OP keeping his existing planer/jointer for material greater than 7-9" in width, and look at the S4S moulder for 80%+ of his material handling.

My only point is that he atleast consider the bigger picture. This conversation started with, "i have $16,000, what planer do i get?", and i think it should start with, "i have $16,000, how do i make my business life easier/better?". Im very interested to see what direction he goes, because it gets out of my range a bit, but it's a road i thought about going down a few years ago. I never discovered too many resources on effectively outfitting a 1-2 man shop. From what he describes, he is operating with pretty 'bare bones' equipment and making a decent profit. It is the equivalent of the one man cabinet shops that are getting by with a PM66, 8" jointer, lunchbox planer, dewalt miter saw and 3hp small format shaper. Ive walked shops identical to that description that do great work and make money. I feel a little guilty, because my dumb basement hobbyist shop is significantly better equipped and i know what $10,000-15,000+/- would do for those guys' capabilities. I am not exaggerating when i say it would be life changing. It's not that they dont have the money, i just dont think they know another way.

[Nick Crivello]

A bump with quick question: Would I be correct in thinking that an American Rotary AR20 with 28amp max starting current and 56 amp running current wouldn't handle an SCMI s630 with 12hp/33amp tag?

[Phillip Mitchell]

Probably not going to cut it in my opinion and experience in the past of starting larger motor/cutterhead diameter planer on an RPC rated to start 10 HP.

[Warren Lake]

call the manufacturer and ask them. Depends on the brand. My !0hp starts 10 hp even if hard start and its only the middle model. Ive started more then 3Hp on an other primitive Roto same brand no gizmos in it just simple and still worked fine.

[Nick Crivello]

:)
Probably not going to cut it in my opinion and experience in the past of starting larger motor/cutterhead diameter planer on an RPC rated to start 10 HP.

Darn, and my electrical service won’t support a larger rpc. Probably a good thing… 😆

[Nick Crivello]

call the manufacturer and ask them. Depends on the brand. My !0hp starts 10 hp even if hard start and its only the middle model. Ive started more then 3Hp on an other primitive Roto same brand no gizmos in it just simple and still worked fine.

The machine I have supports a 10hp saw and 5hp dust collector without issue. The saw has 24amps on the plate.