Best method to cross cut sheet goods over 16 inches, ie.e 24 inch?

[Benjimin Young]

I have always been challenged with accurately cross cutting sheet goods square when making pieces that are wider than 16", for example 24" wide for cabinet making. At my disposal are; RAS, sliding miter saw, highbred cabinet table saw, and of course a skill saw, I do not have a track saw and I find cross cut sleds for 24" much too big to manage. Up to now I rely on maintaining a factory OEM square corner to rip parallel against on the table saw fence, not very practical. I will be building new shop cabinets in the months to come and wanted to ask what other Creekers do to create square cross cut sheet goods around 24" wide utilizing economical solutions, i.e not a sliding table or expensive track saw system?

[Ralph Okonieski]

Make your own version of a track saw if you have a circular saw. That is as economical as it gets because you can use hardboard for the base. You could make several of different lengths even. There are lots of videos with methods to make although they are simple enough. With that, you can start with a nice straight edge for reference.

[Lee Schierer]

Shortly after I set up my table saw, I discovered that handling sheet goods alone took more hands than I had. I couldn't be on both sides of the saw when ripping long boards or cutting up sheets of ply wood. The fist thing I added was foot out feed/work surface on the out feed side of my saw. That helped, but still made it difficult for cuts wider than 16-18". I upgraded my fence to Beismeyer 50" fence and that was a significant improvement. I worked that way for a number of years using a 2' x 4' cross cut sled on the left side of the blade. This gave me the ability to cut wider pieces, but I was still limited when cross cutting sheet goods because the sled wouldn't slide far enough back and stay in the miter slot.

SO,
I designed and made an adjustable support table for the in feed side of the saw. This table, mad from scraps is a bit over 4 feet in length and about 20" wide.
513082513083
It has folding legs for support. There are toggle clamps and tabs that that fit over the Beismeyer fence rail that allow it to be securely attached to the saw.
513084513085513086
This extension table also has a miter slot that can be aligned with the miter slot in the saw table.
513083
This enables my crosscut sled to come back far enough to cross cut a 4 x 8 sheet into two 4 x 4 pieces if needed. I used this table extensively when I added 1" poly insulation board to support the fiber glass insulation in the floor before I dry walled the lower level ceiling. I was able to cut 15" x 96" pieces of the foam to fit between the floor joists.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Norm Abrams NYW videos are now on You Tube. Look at his table saw jigs as to how to make a panel cutter. I broke sheet goods down on a saw bench with a shop made guide, then sized them using my NYW style panel cutter. Spent over 30 years doing this before retirement.

[Ron Selzer]

I use Safety Speed cut panel saws. bought one new and two used. Have seen them for less than $500 on Craigslist, have to be patient. When they first are listed, they are priced at $1500 or more, as time goes by the price starts dropping, sometimes less than $500. Other places to look also, I bought both of my 4' crosscuts for around $500, small one looked like brand new when I picked it up, it is in the basement.
Ron

[Cameron Wood]

I have a cross cut sled 42" wide, and a little over 27" deep between the front & back fences, that easily cuts 24" panels, although I haven't made kitchen cabinets lately so a smaller sled gets used more often.

[Bob Jones 5443]

Shortly after I set up my table saw, I discovered that handling sheet goods alone took more hands than I had. I couldn't be on both sides of the saw when ripping long boards or cutting up sheets of ply wood. The fist thing I added was foot out feed/work surface on the out feed side of my saw. That helped, but still made it difficult for cuts wider than 16-18". I upgraded my fence to Beismeyer 50" fence and that was a significant improvement. I worked that way for a number of years using a 2' x 4' cross cut sled on the left side of the blade. This gave me the ability to cut wider pieces, but I was still limited when cross cutting sheet goods because the sled wouldn't slide far enough back and stay in the miter slot.

SO,
I designed and made an adjustable support table for the in feed side of the saw. This table, mad from scraps is a bit over 4 feet in length and about 20" wide.
513082513083
It has folding legs for support. There are toggle clamps and tabs that that fit over the Beismeyer fence rail that allow it to be securely attached to the saw.
513084513085513086
This extension table also has a miter slot that can be aligned with the miter slot in the saw table.
513083
This enables my crosscut sled to come back far enough to cross cut a 4 x 8 sheet into two 4 x 4 pieces if needed. I used this table extensively when I added 1" poly insulation board to support the fiber glass insulation in the floor before I dry walled the lower level ceiling. I was able to cut 15" x 96" pieces of the foam to fit between the floor joists.

Lee, I have a similar set of four of these, made from Home Depot 1x8 pine with two spindly 1x2 legs on cheap hinges. I have an unpredictable floor, so it’s actually an advantage to be able to set the legs independently. There’s no toggle clamp on mine, just the fence rail on the front and some simple L brackets clamped to the back rail holding the supports onto the saw. I got the idea from a Table Saw idea book by Taunton Press in about 2000. The supports are about 32” I think, just enough to extend about 40” in front of and behind the blade. When I rip an 8’ sheet, I add a rolling stand about a foot beyond the reach of the supports. Humble, simple, they take up no shop space since I hung them up on my French cleat wall.

I ripped a 4x8 sheet of 3/4” birch plywood with the four supports last week, 2 in front and 2 in back.. The hardest part was moving the sheet onto the supports from the floor by myself. I used one of those yellow sheet holders to lift the sheet high enough to lean it over onto the saw.

[Marc Fenneuff]

Ditto what Bruce said. Make a version of Norm's simple panel cutter.

I too used to have to try to build cabinet carcasses without being able to square a corner. A piece of half inch ply, a single hardwood runner, and hardwood fence are all you need.

[Lee Schierer]

Lee, I have a similar set of four of these, made from Home Depot 1x8 pine with two spindly 1x2 legs on cheap hinges. I have an unpredictable floor, so it’s actually an advantage to be able to set the legs independently.
If you look closely you can see the adjustable feet on the legs of my extension table legs. My floor is pretty flat, but I made the legs adjustable so I could level the extension to the saw table


I ripped a 4x8 sheet of 3/4” birch plywood with the four supports last week, 2 in front and 2 in back.. The hardest part was moving the sheet onto the supports from the floor by myself. I used one of those yellow sheet holders to lift the sheet high enough to lean it over onto the saw.

Yes, man handling a sheet of 3/4" plywood alone is a challenge when working alone.

[Alan Lightstone]

I also can't handle plywood sheets alone, and can't lift my large crosscut sled (that can handle 27" width boards). I bought an overhead electric cable hoist and had my electrician install it. You can find pretty inexpensive ones.

That large crosscut sled now lives over my table saw and is lowered with the touch of a button. No lifting on my part. Haven't lifted it in years. Crosscutting is now quite easy.

I do also have a panel saw. It's good for rough cuts, but I prefer the crosscut sled for final cuts as it's so accurate. And I do have a track saw or two, but only use them when nothing else will work.

[Jim Dwight]

I know a lot of people get good results from a sled on the table saw but they've never worked well for me. What does work is a track saw. There are a lot of less expensive options now. Like the Wen saw and track. About $225 for the corded saw and 110 inches of track (in two pieces with the connectors). I use an Evolution saw at church when volunteering. It's also about $150 for the saw. It works fine except the blade guard pivots like a circular saw. But it can use 7.25 inch blades decreasing blade Cost. $225 is a lot less than the $600 or so I paid for my DeWalt setup probably 10 years ago now. You can still spend a lot for a track saw but you do not have to. The Evolution saw with a 60 tooth Freud 7.25 inch blade makes cuts as good as my DeWalt or my SawStop table saw. I suspect the same can be said for other inexpensive options. They will not be quite as nice to use as a Festool, or even my DeWalt, but will make good cuts without costing so much.

[Tom M King]

I have used homemade tracks for circular saws for over 4 decades. I only built one set of cabinets for the spec house I was building a year for 33 years, with a few more sets thrown in for various reasons over 50 years.

First step was to make a cut list. Second step was to go get plywood with a pickup. I had two helpers. We would back up to the shop set up in the first built garage of the spec house, take the plywood out of the truck and rip each sheet as it came out. Cutlist number marked on each piece immediately after it was ripped. After it was all ripped, pieces were cut to length.

I used these. Including going after the plywood and returning, all the cabinet plywood was cut to size by lunch time.

For me, these work just as good as a commercial tracksaw except for dust collection. We did all that plywood cutting outside on a windy day with one helper using a leaf blower so dust collection didn't really matter. Job for the day was often selected by wind direction and strength.

I still use these even for normally "rough" cuts like cutting a stack of plywood for a roof with a 10-1/4" circular saw. Almost any long cut on plywood that can't be done on a tablesaw is easier and quicker with these. I have a couple for cutting quarter inch plywood with a 314.

The mirror image Porter Cable 347 and 743 circular saws can be selected for the direction I want to go. This picture shows a left bladed 743. I made that 20' long cut going the other direction with a right bladed 347 so I could plunge and saw towards either wall.

[Jim Becker]

A guided saw with the material on the floor or a table is likely the easiest and safest way to crosscut (and rip) large panels by many normal humans, especially those who have growing challenges with material handling. I will submit that a commercial track saw, even an inexpensive one of which there actually are options for these days, will do a better job in cut quality than simply running a traditional circular saw along a guide. Why? Because a true track saw does not let the saw wander away from the "fence" as one's hands shift around during the cut. But even so, a circular saw running along a fence, whether it's a nicely constructed guide fence, a clamp on fence or a clamped on simple piece of wood, is still going to do the job well.

[Tom M King]

I'll take that cut quality challenge against all comers. Here are a couple of pictures I took of just cutting some T1-11 for shop doors using the same shop made guides that must be over 30 years old. These cuts didn't need to be this good, but as I said earlier it's easier to use the guide than to cut to a line.

Hopefully you can zoom in.

I first saw the use of such saw guides in the mid 1960's. A carpenter was building kitchen cabinets in my best friends house out of 3/4" Birch plywood, which good quality was available in regular building suppliers up until the early 1990's. Those cabinets also have 3/4 ply doors with a full 45 degree back bevel that is also used for drawer and door pulls. Those cabinets were varnished, and are still in use today. I remember being impressed when I saw the guy doing it, and that was several years before I started any building myself.

I wish I had pictures of cabinet plywood cuts, but we never did anything to the plywood edges between sawing and assembling the carcasses.

First picture is with the guide. Second picture is cut to the line. You can still see part of the line and saw marks. Hopefully you can see there are no saw marks on the guide assisted cut.

[Edward Weber]

I use an aluminum clamp guide and a circular saw, nothing more is necessary for me.
They come in various lengths and styles.
If your circular saw is of decent quality and the foot and blade are aligned parallel, you don't wander away from the guide.

[Jimmy Harris]

If you're not doing a bunch of cuts like this, I'd just clamp a level or some kind of straight edge to the board and use a circular saw. They make aluminum clamp guides specifically for this as well. I have a cheap one from Harbor Freight that I have no complaints with. The level works better on really thin stock that might compress under the purpose made aluminum saw camp guides, as they want to squeeze the wood.

Kreg also makes some circular saw jigs for this type of stuff that people seen to like. But I've never used them.

[Bill Howatt]

I made a guide by fastening a straight-edge, used aluminum angle, to a piece of 1/2" (IIRC) ply that had a base wider than the distance from the straight-edge to the blade. Then put the saw against the edge and cut away the excess width. This give you an edge on the ply that is exactly where the blade will cut - no need to add/subtract the distance from the blade to the fence when laying out the cut. Only thing to watch out for is the blade width depending on whether you are cutting on the good or waste side of the line.

[Tim Greif]

I've used this saw guide for many years in crosscuts and ripping sheet goods to size. It's basically a zero-clearance guide. You can make shorter versions for shorter cross cuts so it isn't so unwieldy for short cuts. Construction is very simple. Rip a factory edge off a piece of nice quality plywood, at least 4 inches wide. Take a piece of tempered hardboard and attach it to the plywood from the bottom with screws leaving the factory plywood edge toward the saw location. The hardboard needs to extend wider than the saw cut. Put a fine tooth blade in the saw and push it along the guide, trimming the hardboard to the exact width of your saw and blade combo. This creates the zero clearance guide edge. Clamp the guide to your workpiece and cut away. As Jim mentioned, be mindful to keep the saw firmly against the plywood guide edge as you cut to eliminate wander.

I've used this successfully with hardwood plywood and melamine with great results.

513149513150513151

[Tom M King]

Tim and Bill's are pretty much the same as mine except I trim one side with a router for use with that router and straight spiral bit. That leaves either side wide enough to use quick clamps when wanted and be out of the way of the saw motor for deep cuts on stacks of plywood. I have one for trimming interior door bottoms that has to be over 40 years old. I used to use 1/4" Birch for the bottoms when that was readily available and had leftovers from cabinet backs. I have a couple now with 1/4" Luan bottoms.

Even my helpers that couldn't read a tape measure could make straight cuts with these.

That 60 tooth Diablo blade does a plenty good enough job for me, as seen in the pictures with the T1-11 cuts, and is less than 20 bucks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185581397699?epid=1709097520&hash=item2b358366c3:g:8FcAAOSwzeFjYTno&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0K8GcOtxTXMH%2Bg%2FIvj4PcYku1 xtw1WFkwQjbfNB%2Bw3BbG%2BBxch%2FZQMybwxqaax6BQWRot tX8VreOcysaDY42mX8vrB%2BAN48ZzgfePaz9x54U4THH9uWNl umAm7FlyBtnekiU3YKqM1w9tdMAtZAMKKkeUUveRgdWR7yNLXs wvjI9DAtekLjXT8V%2FE28nlDIPWi%2FYh2u1IFhbHjDHUpMZj Ib4%2Bdq3HlRNkrOTKUcfoyB2l2%2FXLJI3mJBYlkbOqvkY2Wd DL2%2BB%2Fd63jQfw3SAJDKU%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_qdz5qaYw

[Cameron Wood]

I have several that I made years ago from masonite. When the edge at the blade gets funky, I flip it over & run through the table saw to take a little off the fence edge. I have a triple chip blade for cutting door bottoms that can handle the little nails that often hide there.

That's all good, but the OP's question was about cross cutting plywood for cabinets. Using a saw guide and getting it square for each cut would be tedious.

[andy bessette]

...I do not have a track saw...

This is why you are having difficulty. You will regret not having bought one sooner.

[Benjimin Young]

Some great suggestions and I look forward to implementing once I get my shop moved. I will most likely start with circular saw, a good blade and homemade guide, maybe upgrade to a commercial track if I can find one in my budget. I will be adding a table saw extension, not just for table saw use but also to hold full sheets while I cut them down with a circular saw; nice pics Bob. Again, thanks to all.

[Tom M King]

Depending on your height, a table saw may be a little high to reach all the way across comfortably. Since we always did that cutting outside so the sawdust didn't have to be cleaned up, I always just used 2x's on sawhorses. A sharp pencil helps to mark an arrow point on each side to set the guide to. It's a pretty quick process once you get the system down.

[Jim Dwight]

I agree with Jim Becker. There are many ways to cut up plywood. I used my circular saw with a home made "shoot board", just two layers of 1/4 inch plywood glued together, for decades. I agree completely with those saying it can work fine. But I wandered off the guide sometimes and it did not work fine. Over time, the value of the material I damaged doing this was not inconsequential. A more skilled operator could undoubtedly do better. But it is a lot more difficult to wander away from the guide with a track saw. You have to lift the saw off the guide. In addition, the plywood edge of my home made guides got eroded over time and failed to tell me where the saw would cut. That happens to the sacrificial edge of the track saw track too but then you spend about $20 and put another edge on. The blade I use on the church's track saw is a circular saw blade so I do not doubt that a circular saw can also make a high quality cut but I never got as good of a cut from my circular saws as I routinely get with track saws. Maybe the bearings in track saws are better but that seems like a stress now that they are getting inexpensive although they still are higher priced than many circular saws.

I think it is also interesting to see who argues against track saws. It is predominantly if not totally people who do not own one. In many cases people who have not used one. I do not remember seeing anybody comment "I bought one and it didn't work so I went back to a guided circular saw". I found the track saw to be more handy than I thought when I bought it. Other volunteers at church have, over time, started to be converted. Track saws are not perfect and don't work miracles but they are a good way to make cuts on big workpieces - solid wood or sheet goods.

[Tom M King]

Quote from OP: "wanted to ask what other Creekers do to create square cross cut sheet goods around 24" wide utilizing economical solutions"

I have managed to build probably a million dollars worth of cabinets, and forget how many millions of dollars worth of houses that contain those cabinets without a track saw, and don't remember ever damaging anything with my simple saw guides, or wasting enough time for a commercial track saw to be worth the cost. The OP was asking about an economical solution for building some shop cabinets. I would never have any reason to suggest such a question get answered by suggesting to spend multiple hundreds of dollars for an "economical solution", especially for just building shop cabinets.

[Warren Lake]

made a thing like shown only 3/4 baltic. Put laminate on the guiding edge for the tool. Made it so the bottom section is bolted on and can be moved so you can always refresh the leading edge. made from scrap over 40 years on it and likely advanced it as far as I can go now. Mostly used a skill saw rough cut over by 1/16th and then cut with a router. This on large tops too large and heavy to put on a table saw.

[Edward Weber]

All of this is, of course, personal opinion.
Track saws are nice to have, but not necessary for a precise clean cut. If I had a need, I would own one, I don't cut much sheet product.

Track saws are what many reach for these days before they ever consider anything else, whether it's actually necessary or not. You see ads with guys crosscutting a 2x6 using one. I know this might be a shock to some but we used to cut wood straight and clean before track saws. There used to be a thing called "following a line".
When using a guide, I always have the drop portion on the free side of the guide/clamp. If you do happen to wonder away from the guide, you don't damage the keeper piece of the sheet. This is just common sense.
They may be safer, with less likelihood of kickback and anyone can cut a straight line but they are expensive and not necessary for occasional use.

I'm with Tom on this.
OP wanted an inexpensive solution, that's one thing a track saw isn't.

[andy bessette]

I have always been challenged with accurately cross cutting sheet goods square when making pieces that are wider than 16"...
wanted to ask what other Creekers do to create square cross cut sheet goods around 24" wide utilizing economical solutions, i.e not a sliding table or expensive track saw system?

Reading between the lines I interpreted this as saying:

"I have struggled my whole life trying unsuccessfully to crosscut large sheet goods. Surely there are other members here who are also too cheap to buy what actually has been well proven to work?" :)

I am also cheap, but not so cheap as to prolong the struggle or seek advice from others who insist on struggling. My own solution was to buy a used Festool track saw, track and Systainer for $350. This was many years ago, after having got by with homemade guides and such, and wasting a lot of time I can never get back. Of course there are many other functions the track saw does better than anything else I've come across in my 80 years, like plunge cutting, crosscutting without tear-out, straightening rough boards, etc.

I could have taken the attitude: "If he dismisses the very best solutions, offhand, let him continue to struggle." But there actually are economical solutions, such as buying used.

[Derek Kessler]

If you can't afford a track saw, then just buy a circular saw and make your own track for it. Another option to consider is the Kreg Rip Cut. I've had one for a few years now and it works great. Basically does the same thing as a track saw; works with any standard circular saw, and is less expensive.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Best method to cross cut sheet goods over 16 inches, ie.e 24 inch?

For me it's a cordless Makita track saw and a set of Woodpecker's Parallel Guides.

I tried the shop made route and ended badly.
I tried ripping a full sheet on a light weight jobsite table saw and that ended worse.

The cordless setup saves me a ton of money.
Instead of needing a truck or van to haul sheets of plywood, I just take the saw and guides to the store - cut the pieces to final size - and haul them home in my Hyundai Kona.
That's a nice plus from not having to drive around a truck so I could haul sheet goods a few times a year.

[Michael Schuch]

I have always been challenged with accurately cross cutting sheet goods square when making pieces that are wider than 16", for example 24" wide for cabinet making. At my disposal are; RAS, sliding miter saw, highbred cabinet table saw, and of course a skill saw, I do not have a track saw and I find cross cut sleds for 24" much too big to manage. Up to now I rely on maintaining a factory OEM square corner to rip parallel against on the table saw fence, not very practical. I will be building new shop cabinets in the months to come and wanted to ask what other Creekers do to create square cross cut sheet goods around 24" wide utilizing economical solutions, i.e not a sliding table or expensive track saw system?

I am just finishing a rebuild on my Delta Long Arm radial arm saw which will crosscut to 24". Up till now I have been using a high end Mafell track saw. From what I have seen low end track saws can do pretty much everything a top end one can and do it just as well. Track saws are quick, accurate and make really good cuts.

Prior to my Mafell track saw I used an aluminum clamping guide and it is no where close to being as fast, accurate and having as good cut quality as a track saw.

You can pick up a good quality track saw for $400- $500. I doubt you will be disappointed and I doubt you will regret the purchase.

[Mike Cutler]

Benjamin


"Up to now I rely on maintaining a factory OEM square corner to rip parallel against on the table saw fence, not very practical. "

This is a flawed statement. I have found very few of the OEM sheet good to be square. You need square corners! 64th's add up quick in a cabinet back.
Most of the responses I have read are concerned with cutting a straight line, and while this is important, that line also has to be 90 degrees opposed to reference. That's not so easy for a single guy in a workshop, muscling about a 4'x8' panel.
Two tools that for me are indispensable are a known straight edge, and known good square. A guy working alone in his garage for himself would be wise to invest in high quality layout equipment. I layout all of my lines and measure before I ever lay the tracks down, and then cut to my lines.
In this picture I have already cut the panel square, and I am checking for square by measuring the diagonals They will only be the same, if the panel is square. The triangle is setup for a 45deg angle from a reference edge. If everything is correct, the straight edge will bisect the corners and the will will be the same length along the hypotenuse. That particular panel is 43"x43".
That triangle square is used to set my tracksaw 90 degrees to the reference edge, and measured parallel to an established drawn line. You need good layout tools.
513207

For cabinets, you need to be able to layout the lines first unless you have some "more than basic" machines to work with.
There are many ways to beat the expensive tracks purchase, and I'll tell you for a fact that a Diablo circular saw blade from Home Depot, and roll of masking tape will yield cut lines every bit as clean as a Festool tracksaw. Make an edge guide, buy a new Diablo blade and a roll of tape. It's worked forever. ;)

[Tom M King]

I'm thinking since so many say they've had various troubles with using a circular saw and a shop made guide is that the problem may be the saw you're using. I use very smooth running pro saws mostly.

These saws in particular are Porter Cable 347, 743, and 447. They are lightweight 15 amp saws with almost all the metal being magnesium. They are very smooth running and if you look closely at the one cut in my earlier picture you can see that it's as good of a cut as you can get with a new Forrest blade in a good table saw. The 347 is a right bladed version, the 743 left bladed, and the 447 is like the 347 only it also has a brake. These saws haven't been produced for a while. They can go from more than they did new if you look on ebay. I have bought every good one that comes up for 50 bucks on CL, so I have some backups.

There are other good pro saws that run as smoothly.

I do have one cheap one that I keep a sheet metal cutting blade on that is used with a guide when cutting roofing panels. That one does chew up the edge of the guide, but I always thought it was from all the metal chips. It doesn't really matter for that job. It could just be the $35 saw.

That picture of the 20 foot long cut in the 1828 floor was either taken in 2012 or 2009. I don't remember exactly. In any case, I'm still using that same guide with the 1/4" luan bottom. I didn't make it for that floor job. It had been used for some number of years before then. The edge of it has not been harmed a bit in ever how many times it's been used over those years. It leaves clean edges with no tape still.

With the lightweight, smooth running saw, it is no trouble at all to do your one job of holding it against the guide board.

I have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of tools and equipment. If I had ever thought a track saw would pay for itself in time saved, I would have one. I don't work in other peoples' homes. If I did, I would get a track saw for the sawdust collection.

[Jim Dwight]

I think we all develop ways of making things that work for us. Then we resist changing because we know how to do it the way we do it. We all probably have enough things to spend money on and if you like using a circular saw and guide that's great.

But I can't see the "too expensive" option when a saw and track are now down to $250. A mid level like a Makita or DeWalt are more like $600. For a corded saw and track.

I also do not accept that they produce equivalent work. My main circular saw is a Milwaukee. I know I've used it with a 40 tooth blade but I have to admit I may not have with a 60 tooth piranaha. With the blades I've used in it the cut quality was not nearly as good. But the bigger issue is accuracy. When I made my 10 foot long dining room table, I prepared the edges of the cherry boards making up the 42 inch wide top with the track saw. My jointer is not nearly long enough for me to joint them on it. My glue joints are good, equivalent to those I make using my jointer. I just don't think you can do that with a circular saw.

If you produce finish cuts with your circular saws then maybe you really would not benefit from a track saw. But if you are breaking down large pieces with a circular saw and then recutting them on your table saw you can skip a step with a track saw. Mine makes cuts as good as my PCS. As accurate and as smooth. No need for the second step.

[Andrew Joiner]

I'm thinking since so many say they've had various troubles with using a circular saw and a shop made guide is that the problem may be the saw you're using. I use very smooth running pro saws mostly.




You're right Tom. I learned this back in the 70s when I bought my first safety speed cut panel Saw. It cut really straight and chip free. It had a high quality skill saw with good bearings. When you try to wobble the blade with your fingers there was no play at the bearing. I had a cheap saw that I used for rough cutting. That one if you wobbled the blade you could tell there was a lot of play in the bearings. Didn't matter for rough cuts on that saw.
After I retired from cabinet making I built a hobby woodworking shop around 1999. I made a vertical panel saw. My search started for a circular saw that didn't have blade wobble at the bearing. I visited several stores and surprisingly All the saws even the expensive ones had too much blade wobble. Believe it or not my local Walmart stocked a saw that had no blade wobble. I think it's a black and Decker. That homemade panel saw has cut over 300 4 by 8 sheets Perfectly square and chip free!

[Edward Weber]

But I can't see the "too expensive" option when a saw and track are now down to $250. A mid level like a Makita or DeWalt are more like $600. For a corded saw and track.

.

$250 is a far cry from a $30 clamp guide when you're trying to keep costs down.
These are shop cabinets, not museum pieces.

[Tom M King]

I've never had to recut an edge on a table saw. There is no way any tracksaw could produce a "better" edge. I will take any challenge from any person using their track saw for any bet for cut quality. If the closeup of that T1-11 cut with the old guide is not good enough, say what you need. What is the complaint with that cut out in the yard for a shop door T1-11 plywood edge. The saw it was cut with is probably 20 years old and has built several houses. The blade was a fairly new less than 20 buck blade.

I'm not arguing, but a number of others keep making claims that my way is inferior. What's the bet? Let's start with a bet that will make it worthwhile.

By the way, I did joint the boards for this 10' table on my old Delta 8" jointer. I don't remember the width since I built it in 1982, but 44" sounds about right. That was before the internet, so I guess I didn't have the advantage of learning on the internet that lengths of board straightened on a jointer were limited by the length of your jointer. I have seen that on the internet and got a good laugh out of it.

[Michael Burnside]

I've never had to recut an edge on a table saw. There is no way any tracksaw could produce a "better" edge. I will take any challenge from any person using their track saw for any bet for cut quality. If the closeup of that T1-11 cut with the old guide is not good enough, say what you need. What is the complaint with that cut out in the yard for a shop door T1-11 plywood edge. The saw it was cut with is probably 20 years old and has built several houses. The blade was a fairly new less than 20 buck blade.

I'm not arguing, but a number of others keep making claims that my way is inferior. What's the bet? Let's start with a bet that will make it worthwhile.

By the way, I did joint the boards for this 10' table on my old Delta 8" jointer. I don't remember the width since I built it in 1982, but 44" sounds about right. That was before the internet, so I guess I didn't have the advantage of learning on the internet that lengths of board straightened on a jointer were limited by the length of your jointer. I have seen that on the internet and got a good laugh out of it.

Tom, you might be taking things out of context. No bet necessary.

I don't think anyone is questioning your ability to do this. However, as learned from numerous posts by you, you have far more experience than the average person posting here. With that perspective in mind, it is conceivable that a track with sticky bottom, a guide to prevent saw deviation and a good blade, that person is likely to yield a better cut.

[Tom M King]

It's not a job that requires skill. I'm sure it does require a good saw.

Here is the condition of a 347, 743, or 447 that I would buy. You can tell how much use they've had by the wear on the finish over the magnesium on the bottom. This is one I would buy if it was on CL for 50 bucks. I have more than a lifetime supply, but this one would still be too hard to pass up if it was fifty bucks. There are still a lot sitting in someone's garage that may have used it for one homeowner job. I had one seller even drop one off at my house since he was coming this way anyway. It looks like someone that didn't know what they were doing cut the cord in two, but I'd still buy it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/375095861175?epid=16030319556&hash=item5755749fb7:g:YMgAAOSwLHBkhuoU&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwPi9S3OcbPKJWjUYY%2FNA8j2drSt DELMt9rqIG1FBxSNBn2yq1b010fZXfTQSGgXutMSbHuLt3weFe F%2Bx8RID%2BQvaSz7WH%2B0%2B8o7DOlFGuN9W5lwmXDZgVZa aY6rhYMPknCH1XTIaq5v8GMLimwFJzyNhfHh%2Ff2MCk%2BAE0 Rjhd0geSmnIGIlVk8sDACNVRqfDva9a9LOZM%2FvtTI6aT5wWD BeHXHlNn5RNctfKxA9pTF%2BmU26LEVqt1SeHtzSjf%2B%2FER A%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_CD66-bYw

[Michael Burnside]

It's not a job that requires skill. I'm sure it does require a good saw.


That I totally agree. I actually have a similar saw as the one you posted, long before I had a tacksaw. I built a 20x12 shed using the saw and a "chunk" of aluminum to cut dozens and dozens of 4x8 panels and they all came out square!

[Dan Barber]

The irony is, it sounds like Tom has bought enough Porter Cable saws that he could have easily paid for a track saw :).

I started out with a Saw Guide and this Porter Cable saw over 40 years ago, it's got a lot of sawing in it's past. 5 years ago I bought a track saw w/long and short rails and a MFT table. I never looked back. BTW, I think I paid $120 for that PC saw new in the 80's. That was a lot of money for a circular saw back then. I bought it because it's a drop foot design, not pivoting, thereby keeping the blade more square and parallel to the base. I also bought because my FIL had a Rockwell branded version of the same saw he had for 25 years before mine.
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513250

[glenn bradley]

A sled is my knee-jerk response.

513252

This one has a capacity of 27".

[andy bessette]

Pretty sure most of the track saw hate comes from those who've never owned one.

[Edward Weber]

Pretty sure most of the track saw hate comes from those who've never owned one.

Personally, I don't "hate" them.
I just don't understand those who swear by them, as if that's the only way to get quality cuts.
Clearly that's not the case.

[Benjimin Young]

Thanks Edward, much appreciated.

$250 is a far cry from a $30 clamp guide when you're trying to keep costs down.
These are shop cabinets, not museum pieces.

[Mike Cutler]

Pretty sure most of the track saw hate comes from those who've never owned one.

Andy
I don't think it's so much hate, as just folks explaining another way to do things, that yield the same results.
What makes a track saw attractive is that many people, just do not have the space for a large table saw, or a panel saw. If I can fit the panel on my table saw, I have a JessEm Mast-R-Slide on mine, I'll pick that all day, everyday, over my Festool rails and TS 75. I also have some of the earliest iterations of the EZ Smart rails, and to be brutally honest, they're much higher quality than the Festool rails, but they have a limitation, that the Festool rails do not. I also have shop made hardboard edge guides, and the work as well as anything else. They just take a little more prep.
Me personally, I think the Festool rails are a rip off. They're very poorly made, and machined, for something that cost that much. Two Festool rails should butt together perfectly, and that is not the case. I own four Festool rails, all of them have to be aligned with each other and they should not need to be. It's not that hard to machine perfect corners on aluminum extrusions.
When folks get locked into "one way", or "one system", it blinds them to other possibilities, thus limiting them, that may one day be their way out of a corner.
Tom has some very valid points. It's the tool, the hand, and creative mind, that are more important than "the system", or method.

[Jim Becker]

Personally, I don't "hate" them.
I just don't understand those who swear by them, as if that's the only way to get quality cuts.
Clearly that's not the case.
True, absolutely not the only way...but one of the easiest ways because of the tool being captive to the track and not subject to wandering because of the worker's hands. The splinter guard combined with the captive motion results in an excellent cut surface. It's as good and sometimes better than a table saw rip, especially for a long rip which is sometimes difficult to keep absolutely true to the fence. The edge of the track/sprinter guard is also "the line" so no need to calculate offsets, although some shop made solutions afford that, too. I one is happy with the function and quality of a shop made solution, that's the right one for them for sure, however. If you do get a chance to play with one, I suspect you'll like it even if it's not something you want to buy.

[Edward Weber]

Jim, I've used them and they're great, I just don't need one at present. For the small amount of jobs where one would be used it's not a justified cost.

My only pet peeve is that some, not all, usually the loudest ones, just can't fathom why someone would use any other method than a track saw, all the while saying things like "well they're ONLY $$$".
You'd like to think these things cure cancer the way people idolize them, or maybe that's the Domino, I'm not sure, same thing different tool.
As always, use what works for you.

[mike stenson]

I feel the same way when people spend two hours to jig up a cut that could have just been done in a minute with a hand saw though.

[jack duren]

I’ve got a guy getting into cabinets on another forum. He has a Festool and swears you have to square parts up before you go to the table saw.

[Tom M King]

None of the saws I own was ever bought with the intended use being with a guide. With a guide is only a small fraction of the total percentage any one is used. I just bought the extras after they started making them in Mexico while I could get made in USA and the extras were cheap. I built new spec houses for 33 years and a lot of other stuff since then.

Now that I have multiples, I keep different blades of them for different uses.

There is no figuring offsets. You set the edge the same way you set a track saw. I don’t have anything against tracksaws, just that the cost could never be justified. The one for the 10-1/4” saw is a big timesaver when framing a house. I never bothered to even look for a commercial one that size.

The one for the 314 is a real pleasure to use.

[Curt Harms]

Make your own version of a track saw if you have a circular saw. That is as economical as it gets because you can use hardboard for the base. You could make several of different lengths even. There are lots of videos with methods to make although they are simple enough. With that, you can start with a nice straight edge for reference.

That's sort of what I did. Used 1/8" hardboard with aluminum honeycomb material for a fence. Those materials should stay straight, no tendency to move over time. I use a Porter Cable 314 trim saw on it, the P-C saw's base is longer than it is wide unlike sidewinders and really tracks tight against the honeycomb fence with no effort. I made 2, 1 4' long and 1 8' long. Probably not suitable for production use, takes too long to position and clamp but for the occasional long cut it works quite well.

[Cameron Wood]

Amid the track saw digression, I don't think this was addressed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ze31mW3bo

[Ron Selzer]

Amid the track saw digression, I don't think this was addressed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ze31mW3bo


No way no how is there room in my shop for that wide sled
Ron

[Mike Cutler]

No way no how is there room in my shop for that wide sled
Ron

That's a big sled, and very nicely done.
My shop is 9'x19', and I have a JessEm Mast-R-Slide, with a 48" plus fence to the left of my blade, that doesn't take up much less room than that one when in use.
I can't leave it in place though, it's too big. It gets used and put away. Not very efficient. :(
What I'd like to see is how he stabilized it in front of the blade. That's a pretty wide panel he's pushing into the blade.

[Curt Harms]

There is I think another consideration mentioned in passing above. Cheaper circular saws may not have a way to set the edge of the base parallel to the blade. If you run an edge of the saw's base against a guide but the blade isn't parallel to the guide, the saw is going to want to follow the blade not the guide. Cutting to a line that isn't going to matter, trying to follow a guide it may matter. The saw may want to pull away from the guide.

[andy bessette]

Now 80, I no longer have the strength to manhandle full sheets of 3/4" ply, sled or no.

[Edward Weber]

There is I think another consideration mentioned in passing above. Cheaper circular saws may not have a way to set the edge of the base parallel to the blade. If you run an edge of the saw's base against a guide but the blade isn't parallel to the guide, the saw is going to want to follow the blade not the guide. Cutting to a line that isn't going to matter, trying to follow a guide it may matter. The saw may want to pull away from the guide.

Yes, I mentioned that and have a cheap skil saw to prove it.
Many of the cheaper saws had stamped steel bases with nothing more than bent tabs to attach them. This makes it almost impossible to align the base, even if the saw has a decent motor.

Even if you're not using a guide and are sawing following a line, the blade is essentially dogtracking, twisted slightly in the cut, making for horrible results. Adding a sub foot/plate of your own making is about the only way to actually make the saw useful. BTDT
Now, with most saws being aluminum and/or plastic, one can sometimes enlarge the mounting holes but it's not always guaranteed that the foot remains parallel, relying on only a few self tapping plastic screws to keep it aligned.
JMHO

[Ron Selzer]

Andy posted I no longer have the strength to manhandle full sheets of 3/4" ply

I am a little bit younger and can't any more manhandle 3/4 plywood, melamine, etc. Which makes me glad that years ago I bought a SSC H-5 panel saw and attached it to a wall in the garage. Since added a smaller Milwaukee panel saw in the basement shop. I can drag, maneuver, etc, sheet goods to the panel saw in the garage to cut down to finish size. Panel saw in basement is to size up solid wood glued up panels that are too wide for radial arm saw. I have just enough room to the left of my table saw to squeeze past.
Ron

[jack duren]

I hear of woodworkers man handling 4x8 sheets for a track saw , but I find it no different to man handling a sheet on my table saw. Now as tye OP states he must have a small table saw and understand. But if you have a cabinet saw setup , I don’t understand a track saw..

[Jim Becker]

I hear of woodworkers man handling 4x8 sheets for a track saw , but I find it no different to man handling a sheet on my table saw. Now as tye OP states he must have a small table saw and understand. But if you have a cabinet saw setup , I don’t understand a track saw..
Consider the level of effort required to maneuver a full sheet of 3/4" sheet goods accurately along the cabinet saw's fence with your hands and body and get an accurate, clean rip vs laying the material on the floor on top of a piece of foam or some 2x scrap stock, placing the track "on the line" and then running the saw down the length of the track to make the cut. Moving the saw is a bit less tedious than moving the sheet. Again, it's not for everyone.

[Dan Barber]

I hear of woodworkers man handling 4x8 sheets for a track saw , but I find it no different to man handling a sheet on my table saw. Now as tye OP states he must have a small table saw and understand. But if you have a cabinet saw setup , I don’t understand a track saw..

My setup is a set of saw horses with slats on edge between them to create a work surface for the track saw. I only need to slide the panels out of the truck bed and onto the grid, much easier than struggling with a full sheet against a table saw fence. Then the track saw completes all the cuts on that sheet. Next, step get the next sheet out of the truck. Bonus is, when done, everything folds and stacks away. Or, if a large work surface is needed, just throw a lower grade of 4 x 8 stock on the grid and now we have a large assembly table. I don't even own a table saw at this time. I'm doing all my ripping of solid stock on an 18" band saw with a wide resaw blade. It doesn't seem that anything will persuade the anti-track saw crowd. I'll just share the following picture in case it might help someone.


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[Warren Lake]

sheet against the fence falls down as the outside edge is likely not straight. Even ripping using a straight edge to a 12" approx dimension it was clear it moved after it was ripped from tension release.

[Jim Becker]

Dan, I essentially do similar for ripping sheet goods, but I have a flattening table that it's not hard for me to tip the material up onto, so it's a single movement of the big sheet.

[mike stenson]

Sheets slide out of the bed of my truck and onto a work table. Then get cut with a track saw. Then again, I hate sheet goods and so I rarely use them. If I were making cabinets all the time, my shop would be laid out completely differently. Since I do not, my cabinet saw is setup for making rips and cross cuts of relatively narrow (I even cut my rip capacity in half to make better use of my space) and short solid stock.

My unisaw is the second least used tool in my shop. Right behind my lathe.

[jack duren]

I know exactly the effort required to cut sheet goods on a table saw. I was the cut man for 7 years at the commercial shop Jim….

[jack duren]

sheet against the fence falls down as the outside edge is likely not straight. Even ripping using a straight edge to a 12" approx dimension it was clear it moved after it was ripped from tension release.

Not sure I understand this ..

[Cameron Wood]

Saw guide in use today. No claim that it is as good as a track saw, but I guess good enough as I have not bought or even really thought about buying one.
This is probably over 40 years old, & has been trued several times.


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[Warren Lake]

outside edge not straight on a 4 x 8. Used a precision edge as a guide cut approx 12 in whatever it was once cut the cut edge turned it around cut the factory edge off. Looked at the 12" rip was not straight as the material had moved.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have used homemade tracks for circular saws for over 4 decades. I only built one set of cabinets for the spec house I was building a year for 33 years, with a few more sets thrown in for various reasons over 50 years.

First step was to make a cut list. Second step was to go get plywood with a pickup. I had two helpers. We would back up to the shop set up in the first built garage of the spec house, take the plywood out of the truck and rip each sheet as it came out. Cutlist number marked on each piece immediately after it was ripped. After it was all ripped, pieces were cut to length.

I used these. Including going after the plywood and returning, all the cabinet plywood was cut to size by lunch time.

For me, these work just as good as a commercial tracksaw except for dust collection. We did all that plywood cutting outside on a windy day with one helper using a leaf blower so dust collection didn't really matter. Job for the day was often selected by wind direction and strength.

I still use these even for normally "rough" cuts like cutting a stack of plywood for a roof with a 10-1/4" circular saw. Almost any long cut on plywood that can't be done on a tablesaw is easier and quicker with these. I have a couple for cutting quarter inch plywood with a 314.

The mirror image Porter Cable 347 and 743 circular saws can be selected for the direction I want to go. This picture shows a left bladed 743. I made that 20' long cut going the other direction with a right bladed 347 so I could plunge and saw towards either wall.

I have an old Speedmatic that I used for that for years. It is too heavy for general use, but was great in a track, still the best cut of any I own. Trying to find a new switch for it now.

[Curt Harms]

I hear of woodworkers man handling 4x8 sheets for a track saw , but I find it no different to man handling a sheet on my table saw. Now as tye OP states he must have a small table saw and understand. But if you have a cabinet saw setup , I don’t understand a track saw..

Manhandling a 4 X 8 sheet it's not just a matter of strength but of space as well. A 4 X 8 sheet requires a fair amount of space to maneuver, more space than those of us with single car garage or basement shop spaces may have.

[Tom M King]

I have an old Speedmatic that I used for that for years. It is too heavy for general use, but was great in a track, still the best cut of any I own. Trying to find a new switch for it now.

I might have a switch. I kept spares. I'll look today to see if I have one. All my old saws are hanging around the top of the wall in an old office and not used any more. Which Speedmatic? Porter Cable made a few saws not quite up to the old standard of smoothness of the all metal saws before they came out with the 347/743 models. I wore out some of each. I never put any more work in them than a switch or brushes, but just went and bought a new one.

[Larry Edgerton]

I might have a switch. I kept spares. I'll look today to see if I have one. All my old saws are hanging around the top of the wall in an old office and not used any more. Which Speedmatic? Porter Cable made a few saws not quite up to the old standard of smoothness of the all metal saws before they came out with the 347/743 models. I wore out some of each. I never put any more work in them than a switch or brushes, but just went and bought a new one.

Its out in my barn, to cold today to play out there. That thing will sit and spin for about two minutes when you shut it down. I had some tools stolen a bit ago, so I have to make sure its still here, but if it is you can have it. The witch turned on but would not shut off. I am not going to use it any more. Like you I had a lot of guys working so I have way more of that kind of stuff than I need. Want a PC door hinge jig, I have two of them?

[Tom M King]

Larry, I appreciate the offer but my collection of power tools that I won't ever use again is plenty complete enough, as is the house building stuff. I looked for that switch yesterday but didn't find it. I probably had used the last one. I did find a bunch of other stuff that I had forgotten I had like about a half dozen Trojan jewelers saws in the old drawers that used to be built in a step van.

[Dave Roock]

I have a Sawtrax C52VP - it was the first larger tool I got, it does a fantastic job of breaking down/cross cutting sheets. With the mid level fence, cross cutting of dimensional lumber is no problem also. Uses a Makita 5007f Circular Saw which is one the best circular saws you can buy imo. A new high quality blade and finish cuts have been done on cabinet hardwood plywood. Getting a used panel saw is also a viable option.

[Anuj Prateek]

I have a crude method but it works for small scale work.

I square the long edge and short edge using a handplane. Factory edges are mostly square so it takes very little work.

After that I use those two edges for all cuts, as rip cuts. After cuts I square any minor errors using handplane. Anything less than 16", I use a sledge.

If a project will require too many of these large crosscuts, I will buy a track saw.

[Dan Barber]

I have a crude method but it works for small scale work.

I square the long edge and short edge using a handplane. Factory edges are mostly square so it takes very little work.

After that I use those two edges for all cuts, as rip cuts. After cuts I square any minor errors using handplane. Anything less than 16", I use a sledge.

If a project will require too many of these large crosscuts, I will buy a track saw.

You must be pretty good to make 16" crosscuts with a sledge :D

[jack duren]

I hope after 77 posts we have figured out how to cut 16”

less complicated to keep using my table saw..:p

[Anuj Prateek]

You must be pretty good to make 16" crosscuts with a sledge :D

Nah! It gets me close. Then handplane comes out.

[Lee Schierer]

You must be pretty good to make 16" crosscuts with a sledge :D

You just have to train all the dogs to keep their paws away from the blade.514167

[Anuj Prateek]

You just have to train all the dogs to keep their paws away from the blade.514167

LOL! Now I get it!


After reading the comment I was confused. Have been using the sled (not sledge) for sometime and its pretty accurate. Even when cut comes out off, it's close enough that a few swipes with handplane fixes it.