Chisel handles

[Carl Beckett]

I purchased a set of Narex chisels with no handles. I will be making the handles. First timer.

The end that goes into the wood handle appears cast, then perhaps polished. This makes it somewhat rounded corners and smooth overall.

Should I try grinding these corners more square/sharp, to provide more 'bite'? (which also might allow more interference without splitting, although rounded corners might offer more surface area 'friction' at the contact points).

I understand fitting may be some trial and error depending on the wood hardness - do you have starting point recommendations on the degree of interference?

Appreciate any insight.

513035513036513037

[David Carroll]

For those types of tangs I would be tempted to leave them exactly how they are, drill a tight-ish "clearance" hole (snug, but not a force fit) and then epoxy them in place. I've done this to a number of decent chisels that came to me with horrible plastic handles, but which were otherwise fine. It's not the traditional approach, but yours are not traditional tapered tangs.

DC

[Edward Weber]

+1
This is really the best way of attaching this type of tanged tool.
You can take a file to the tang and cut some grooves if your concerned about loosening but it's really never been an issue for me.

The epoxy can always be heated up to remove the handle later on down the line.

[Jim Koepke]

Handles for some of my projects have been drilled slightly smaller than the size of the tang or shaft on the item to be mounted.

513047

This scratch awl was made with HSS drill rod. The handle was drilled with a bit a few thousandths smaller than the rod. It has held quite well.

If a file can easily cut your tangs, that would mean the shaft is soft. You might be able to create some barbs on the tangs with a cold chisel (a chisel made for metal work). I've done this with cut nails to make an extra holding grip.

It might also be possible to drill a hole in the tang and then through a ferule on the handle and use a pin to hold it in place.

513048

That was used to hold a chuck from an old brace in the handle pictured.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

Chisels are nowadays drop forged. I wouldn't bother grinding the tangs unless they have a burr or some other roughness.

The right drill bit to use will depend on the size of the tang, perhaps the manufacturer has a recommendation, ask them. If the hole is slightly smaller than the tang, then you can just mallet the handle top and fit it using only pressure, no need to glue.

I re-handled a few chisels some time ago. You can see three examples at the top of the picture.

In order to get a good fit between the bottom of the handle and the conical bolster, the hole must be straight along the axis of the handle. You might need to hollow the area around the hole to prevent a gap once the tang won't go in any more.

513109513110

If this proves difficult, you could use a leather ring to hide the gap. Here's an example of a poor fit.

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[Christopher Wellington]

I have done one homemade handle for a Richter chisel (I tried to turn down the factory ash handle on the lathe and ended up splitting the wood).

I made the handle from hard maple, drilled a 3/8" pilot hole for the tang, and drove it home with a mallet. It felt like a good, tight fit without risking splitting, and the chisel has been solid ever since. Don't forget to put the ferrule on first!

513118
Factory Richter on the left, custom maple handle on the right.

The idea was to make the handle a bit less top-heavy to improve precision and reduce fatigue from the "pencil" grip. The shape is modeled after a LN mortise chisel, which I find to be comfortable. This 3/8" Richter is now my most-used bench chisel in the shop.

[Derek Cohen]

I purchased a set of Narex chisels with no handles. I will be making the handles. First timer.

The end that goes into the wood handle appears cast, then perhaps polished. This makes it somewhat rounded corners and smooth overall.

Should I try grinding these corners more square/sharp, to provide more 'bite'? (which also might allow more interference without splitting, although rounded corners might offer more surface area 'friction' at the contact points).

I understand fitting may be some trial and error depending on the wood hardness - do you have starting point recommendations on the degree of interference?

Appreciate any insight.

513035513036513037


Carl, the tangs on the Narex chisels are similar to those of Japanese chisels ....

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/KiyohisaRebuild2_html_m5fa0ab18.jpg

I have detailed re-handling these chisels in an article below, with some thoughts about doing it better the next time.

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/KiyohisaRebuild2.html

Then I completed re-handling a full set of Kiyohisa ...

https://i.postimg.cc/L5qn1Xnm/KK7.jpg

The chisel below began life as a black plastic handled Stanley. The only difference with the Narex was a round, rather than square, tang ...

https://i.postimg.cc/vZWqLL1w/EAA22-F2-D-BB71-412-D-AE41-BB9-DD8-B5-E5-E7.jpg

To answer your question, a slip fit is generally all that is needed. Sometimes, however, the tang does not make this easy as it is not uniform. Getting it square in the handle then is tricky, and waste needs to be chiseled out. By then the mortice is wider, and a little epoxy is needed to be used to line all up securely.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Edward Weber]

[QUOTE=Rafael Herrera;3292919]
In order to get a good fit between the bottom of the handle and the conical bolster, the hole must be straight along the axis of the handle. You might need to hollow the area around the hole to prevent a gap once the tang won't go in any more.

If this proves difficult, you could use a leather ring to hide the gap. Here's an example of a poor fit.

QUOTE]

I have a set of the unhandled Narex chisels, they come with a leather washer designed for that purpose and to absorb excess shock when being struck.

[Carl Beckett]

Thank you all for some great insights.

The set I have do indeed have leather washers - but - assuming I can get a good snug fit to the shoulder handle, is the leather washer preferable?

All else being ideal, would you put the leather washer on it or leave it off?

My first thought would be if there is shock absorbing it implies movement. And movement, over time, will loosen. So I was inclined to leave these out but welcome opinions.

[Rafael Herrera]

The set I have do indeed have leather washers - but - assuming I can get a good snug fit to the shoulder handle, is the leather washer preferable?

You won't see leather washers in older chisels. My skeptical side tells me they came up with them to hide an imperfect fit and then explained it away as an improvement, to dampen the mallet strike, which sounds goofy if you think about it.

The chisel certainly looks better if there is no visible gap between the handle and the bolster, so the leather washer is insurance for a good look.

[Edward Weber]

You won't see leather washers in older chisels.

HUH :confused:

I've seen plenty

[Jim Koepke]

My first thought would be if there is shock absorbing it implies movement. And movement, over time, will loosen. So I was inclined to leave these out but welcome opinions.

It seems the washer would be compressed with the first few blows of a mallet. How much movement would there be after the washer being compressed?

Many wood handled chisels came with leather washers at the top of the handle. Most of these had a dowel at the center of the leather washers. This didn't absorb the mallet's blow. It did keep the top of the handle from mushrooming.

Is it possible a leather washer at the junction of wood and steel keeps this from happening at the bottom end of the handle?

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

HUH :confused:

I've seen plenty

Old as in early 20th century and older.

Marples made chisels for quite some time and is a good reference for the different types of chisels that were offered in the past.

https://williammarplesandsons.com/chisels/

Here is a Howarth catalog from 1884.

https://archive.org/details/jameshowarthandsonspricelist4thillused/page/n12/mode/1up

Or a 1894 Buck Bros. catalog.

https://archive.org/details/BuckBrosPriceListNo71894/mode/1up

---

The washers seem to be a relatively recent innovation. Of any significance, that is debatable.

[Edward Weber]

That was going to be my next question, what's your version of old.
Apparently it's in the 125 year range.
Then what do you consider new? less than 125 or something else?
I see a chisel with a leather washer from the 1950s, I don't consider it as relatively recent innovation.

And Jim, that's exactly my understanding. The washer at the connection point help keep the wood from mushrooming outward and eventually splitting. Which also depends a lot on how the ferrule is fitted.

[Jim Koepke]

The washers seem to be a relatively recent innovation. Of any significance, that is debatable.

This made me curious so my old Stanley catalogs (.pdf versions) were consulted.

My oldest, a 1914 edition didn't show any chisels.

The 1926 version showed some socket chisels with leather topped handles.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

Stanley was late to the chisel party, but made a splash with their patented Everlasting line in 1911, the ones with steel caps.

https://archive.org/details/stanleynewtoolsadded/page/n1/mode/1up

There was a leather washer between the steel cap and the wooden handle.

The majority of their chisels were socket chisels with leather capped handles, not really what we have been discussing.

Leather caps for the handles were offered by other makers as early as 1912.

https://archive.org/details/LoganGreggHardwareCatNo30/page/n78/mode/1up

--

I thought the debate was regarding the leather washer between the chisel bolster and the bottom of the handle.

In the last 100 years chisels have not changed in a fundamental way. I don't think the addition of leather washers, whether on top or bottom of the handle, is of any significance. The steel composition has evolved to the point where today there are many options, O1, A2, PM-V11, Cr-V, etc. etc. There are plenty of options for the needs of any woodworker.

The cast steel used in the 19th century was really good stuff for woodworking tools, finding a decent Ward, Sorby or Marples bench chisel is always a treat. On the other hand, I've a 1/4" thick plate of 26C3 steel that some day will turn into a set of bench chisels.

[Christopher Wellington]

The washer at the connection point help keep the wood from mushrooming outward and eventually splitting. Which also depends a lot on how the ferrule is fitted.

I was going to mention this in my original post about fitting a Richter with a new handle. The tenon was sized for an interference fit with the ferrule. At assembly, I hammered the ferrule in place and then drove the handle over the tang.

I have a hard time imagining the wood ever mushrooming or splitting with a tight-fitting, substantial steel ferrule around it, but I put the leather washer in anyway. I don't see it as particularly beneficial or detrimental, to be honest.

[Edward Weber]

I thought the debate was regarding the leather washer between the chisel bolster and the bottom of the handle.

In the last 100 years chisels have not changed in a fundamental way. I don't think the addition of leather washers, whether on top or bottom of the handle, is of any significance.

The older chisels had forged bolsters, not machined. The leather washer evens out the rough surface and creates a more uniform interface between the bolster and handle.
Today, the bolster is machined as a perfectly flat surface. One would argue that the washer was needed more in the older tools than the newer ones.

They may be more prevalent now but not new by my standards.
50-100 years, vintage
100-300 years, antique
300+ years, artifact

Some mat find this helpful to the discussion
https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/627
https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/623

[Warren Mickley]

The older chisels had forged bolsters, not machined. The leather washer evens out the rough surface and creates a more uniform interface between the bolster and handle.
Today, the bolster is machined as a perfectly flat surface. One would argue that the washer was needed more in the older tools than the newer ones.



Most of my chisels are from the early 19th century. They are hand forged. None had leather washers when I got them; none have leather washers now. The bolsters are filed to true them up and there is no need for leather.

There are over 40 chisels in the Seaton Chest (1796). None have leather.

[Rafael Herrera]

Even Joel (the blog writer) hated using the leather washer for that mortise chisel. He has some thoughts about their inadequacy and I kind of agree with him.

There seems to be a notion that older tools were "crude" because they were hand forged. That's a fallacious idea. Skilled craftsmen or women strive to produce their work efficiently without wasting time and material, which is fair and honest towards their customers, they don't pay for what is not necessary. This was true in the past and it is true today. Over engineered or garishly finished tools may appeal to people with the cash to spare, but are not really better tools.


So, in the case of the bolster and handle, there's plenty of room to get a good fitting. Spending the time and effort to make everything perfect around the bolster was obviously seen as wasteful. It's also worth pointing out that oval bolster mortise chisels were sold without a handle, at least that's what I've read in some places and what I notice in the catalogs. It'd have been trivial for a woodworker to make one in their free time.

It's interesting that the Ray Isles mortise chisels sold at Joel's store don't have leather washers.

513173

Lastly, this guy in YT is able to whip up a well fitted handle in less than half an hour without much fuss. Notice the use the hacksaw to fine tune the socket fit at the end, same as what was mentioned in Joel's blog post.

https://youtu.be/snU1sg-N2CI

[Derek Cohen]

I agree - no leather washer. When parts are fitted carefully for a perfect fit, there is no need to use a "spacer".

This is ever more evident when fitting a handle to a Japanese chisel. Not only does one need to fit the ferrule ...

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/KiyohisaRebuild2_html_m3fb1e705.jpg

... but the join between the ferrule and socket is not a given - you may get lucky and the fit is coplanar, but in most cases it requires that the high spots are filed down to create the flow, and then the shiny steel is blackened to remove all evidence.

Collection of orphan chisels by Kiyohisa chisels with different handles ...

https://i.postimg.cc/3Rxy39h4/KK3.jpg

Rebuilt to create a collection ...


https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels_html_m1cad268.jpg

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels_html_m2692c6a3.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Edward Weber]

Even Joel (the blog writer) hated using the leather washer for that mortise chisel. He has some thoughts about their inadequacy and I kind of agree with him.

There seems to be a notion that older tools were "crude" because they were hand forged. That's a fallacious idea.

I'm not trying to argue, nor imply that old tools were bad or crude in some way, those are your words.
Many of the old tools came unhandeled and the bolster was not given any extra attention since the purchaser was going to "fit" their own handle how he wanted to. The bolsters were not filed to a perfectly flat surface with squared corners. A leather washer was often used, not always, to seal the connection, to avoid any gaps.

All I was saying is that a leather washer was used very far back as the link I posted points out. Your the one that said
"You won't see leather washers in older chisels. My skeptical side tells me they came up with them to hide an imperfect fit and then explained it away as an improvement"
You also said
"The washers seem to be a relatively recent innovation."

This is just not true, pleas argue with someone else

[Rafael Herrera]

You stated that older chisels would have needed washers for a proper fit more than modern ones. The implication was clear, yet browsing old catalogs reveals chisels were not sold that way. It's the modern ones, like these Richter chisels, that come fitted with the washers.

Within the context of the last 300 hundred or more years, which is the span of the western European/American woodworking tradition we practice, features added to a tool 60 years ago can be considered recent. That's just my opinion. Your time frames seem to be smaller and that's fine. My opinion on what's old or recent doesn't really matter. What's interesting to discuss is if these washers are any good.

Based on the old chisels (my concept of old) I've seen and used, they're not necessary and I already stated why I think they came about. Others may have a different opinion, that's fine, this is a forum, people exchange opinions, they will not always agree. If my opinions bother you, there's not much I can do about that.

[Carl Beckett]

I agree - no leather washer. When parts are fitted carefully for a perfect fit, there is no need to use a "spacer".

This is ever more evident when fitting a handle to a Japanese chisel. Not only does one need to fit the ferrule ...

... but the join between the ferrule and socket is not a given - you may get lucky and the fit is coplanar, but in most cases it requires that the high spots are filed down to create the flow, and then the shiny steel is blackened to remove all evidence.

Collection of orphan chisels by Kiyohisa chisels with different handles ...

Rebuilt to create a collection ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek, after some reflection and learning from this thread, I am going to try without the washer.

Additionally, I am not a fan of the cylindrical ferrule. This creates a step and I do sometimes hold the chisel around the area. Hence I was leaning towards fabricating a tapered ferrule as you show here (and many of my other chisels have), although I was planning to make this from brass since it might be easier machining for me. I like the continuous transition this would create.

[Carl Beckett]

Strike 1. Not concentric.

And I am not sure I like the transition from the ferrule to the handle, will mock one up that is a smooth transition (besides being concentric). I machined this from a plumbing fitting which worked pretty well.

No worries, trying a change in fabrication sequence to get it to line up. Then will decide what wood to use. Assuming they get finished at 'some' point in the future, the mere passing of time gets me closer...

513787513788

[Carl Beckett]

Next iteration went quickly, and came together nicely. (still need to cut off the tail...)

I can live with this. And may just leave these as cherry. Appreciate the inputs - I did not use the washer. A simple interference fit no glue. We will see if they fall apart in time.

Now to repeat 5 more times.

What should I use for a finish?

:)

513803513804513805

[Jim Koepke]

What should I use for a finish?

It depends on what you like.

Shellac or lacquer are both good for a shiny smooth finish.

Mine are often left unfinished for some woods like ash or rosewood.

Others are rubbed on the lathe with my shop oil rag. It is mostly saturated with Howard Feed-N_Wax.

513807

Something similar to this could be made at home with 50-50 mix of mineral oil and bee's wax. (candle wax might also work) Melt the wax and pour in the oil, mix and let cool. It should make a soft wax easy to rub in. It may need a little turpentine or mineral spirits. Rub it on and then wipe it off with a dry rag.

If you have some furniture polish with wax in it that would likely also work.

jtk

[Edward Weber]

As Jim said, It depends on what you like.
Many simply leave handles bare, they will take on a patina over time due to use.
I like a penetrating oil of some kind, tung, hemp, etc.

[Rafael Herrera]

Raw linseed oil is also an option.

[Christopher Wellington]

I find that an unfinished or oil-finished handle becomes stained blotchy gray in short order from sharpening. The steel powder and slurry gets on my hands and then transfers to the handle. It's purely a cosmetic issue, but boy do they look ugly. Maybe I'm just messy with my sharpening.

I like a couple of coats of lacquer instead.

[Jim Koepke]

Not noted in my post on finishing handles is when shellac is used, it is usually sprayed on while the handle is still on the lathe.

What is easy to find locally is Zinsser spray shellac.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

If turning handles, along with sanding the surfaces, then use Ubeaut Shellawax. This cure with the heat of friction (holding a cloth) against the turning surface). The result is a smooth, glossy, clear, bullet-proof finish. Made in Oz and available around the world.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Carl Beckett]

Anyone want to take a guess what this wood is.

It is dense
It is hard
It is absolutely murderous on tools - virtually unworkable with regular blades.

I am salvaging it from a table I got on facebook. It was a disaster with epoxy filling, cracks all through it. BUT:

Once I get it to shape and sanded/polished it comes out like glass.

This is what I have so far - some rejects but looks like I will get 6.

514023514024

[Jim Koepke]

Did the table look to be made in a factory or could it have been made in a home shop.

If this was here in the west, I would say it looks a lot like myrtle or cascara. Cascara is a member of the buckthorn family. Is buckthorn common in Massachusetts?

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

Anyone want to take a guess what this wood is.

It is dense
It is hard
It is absolutely murderous on tools - virtually unworkable with regular blades.

My first thought was rosewood, since they look like rosewood chisel handles I once bought off of ebay. But it wouldn't be that hard to work.

Salvaged from furniture... Is it Ipe?

[Carl Beckett]

It was a piece that was handed around, so I do not have any insight on the origin local or otherwise.

I do not believe it is ipe. The seller said they didnt know, but guessed teak. I am pretty sure it is not teak.

It WAS outdoor table. And had been repaired multiple times over the years including some epoxy used to fill large cracks throughout (looks like JB Weld to me). So I have had to cut it up to get useful pieces.

It destroys a bandsaw blade in about 6" of cutting. The 'metal' blade made it about a foot before starting to burn.

My best luck has been a 12" ripping blade on the tablesaw. And 36 grit belt for sanding to thickness (the planer has no chance)

Given it was an outdoor piece, I assumed some type of tropical hardwood. But I have never experienced anything that kills the blades like this.

Whatever it is, it is now: Chisel handle wood

[steven c newman]

What is another name for "Iron Wood"....the stuff Farmers would use for Fence posts?

[Carl Beckett]

What is another name for "Iron Wood"....the stuff Farmers would use for Fence posts?

This very well may be..... some pics from a search look the same:

514054514055

And additional comments on machining fits my experience:

It has a Janka hardness value of 3,260.

Hickory, for comparison, has a Janka value of 1880.

This stuff EATS blades.

[Rafael Herrera]

The term Ironwood is used for basically any wood that's very hard.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironwood

Here's a piece of Ipe I cut a few years ago. It looks similar to yours.

514070

[Rob Luter]

What is another name for "Iron Wood"....the stuff Farmers would use for Fence posts?

Black Locust. It dulls chain saws in short order.

[Jim Koepke]

Black Locust. It dulls chain saws in short order.

A lot of woods dull tools in short order due to silica in the wood.

Here is a very old post on the subject > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?10997

jtk

[Carl Beckett]

The finished project. At least until they fall apart and I remake.

Thanks to all for the comments. No leather washer. Tapered ferules. Interference fit with the tang.

And used some scraps from the mystery wood. Did finish with the Shellawax although I like the unfinished feel mucking it up with sharpening slurry resonated.

Plenty of defects. I learned a few things and if I need to remake them they would come out better next time (unless I forget everything I learned, which is pretty plausible). My biggest gripe is the ferrule profiles/transitions not uniform. Definitely some design improvement to be made for the next time.

Thanks to all for the inputs.

514132514133514134514135

[David Carroll]

They look great from my yard!

DC

[Derek Cohen]

My biggest gripe is the ferrule profiles/transitions not uniform. Definitely some design improvement to be made for the next time.



Carl, the handles look terrific.

Regarding the ferrule fit, I mentioned in an earlier post that this is common with Japanese chisels. The fix is that the join is filed and sanded coplanar. Extra work, but work the effort.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Carl, they look very nice and more uniform in shape than most of mine.

My favorite part about buying old chisels, besides finding them cheap, is the making of new handles.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

They look great. The conical ferrules made it a more challenging project.

[Carl Beckett]

They look great. The conical ferrules made it a more challenging project.

Yes exactly. I didnt think those through completely (in fact were secondary), which is what made the transitions less than ideal. For sure I could have machined in place as Derek suggested - but my dimensions were off to begin with given the angles and pipe bushing I started with (which I had to figure as well, how to machine). So 'most' of them are different dimensions from each other. Making 6 identical is another type of challenge.

It will be straightforward the 'next time' to accommodate. Part of the learning process and why experience often yields a better result. And a fraction of the time.

But its all good - I set out to upgrade my everyday set with something reasonable cost. Mission accomplished. And overall, was quite enjoyable project. Which is my goal as a hobbiest.

Thanks everyone for sharing your insights/knowledge.

[Carl Beckett]

Which triggers another question:

What is the functionality of the ferrule? I assume to prevent splitting at the end of the wood. But - other than ascetics, does it matter how long they are? These are a little bit long to match the angles fore/aft.

My early attempt they were shorter, which in some ways I liked better. Does it matter?

[Jim Koepke]

What is the functionality of the ferrule? I assume to prevent splitting at the end of the wood.

IMO, the ferrule does offer some prevention of splitting yet chisels and other wood handled tools tend to look odd without a ferrule.

That could be an instinctual expectation built into people from so many years of it being employed in tool & utensil making.

Just my 514186…

jtk

[Edward Weber]

Ferrules are, as you say to keep the wood from splitting. As for size, that depends on many things, aesthetics being just one.
What material they're made from. how thick, etc, steel hoops on Japanese chisels are quite short, while brass hoops and ferrules on western tools are typically much longer., due to brass being a softer material.
Ferrules can be made from anything from string or wire, on up to steel pipe. The aesthetics is typically in conjunction with the material used.

[Derek Cohen]

There is a need for a ferrule only if there is a risk of the wood deforming. Since these chisels resemble sockets, the ferrule appears superfluous. However, they are attached with a tang. Could they do without a ferrule? Possibly not, as the tang is stout and the walls of the handle are thin at the join. With the ferrule, the overall construction is more a Japanese oire nomi or the Veritas bench chisels.

Carl, the time to file the ferrules flush is after the construction, not when they are turned on the lathe.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Carl Beckett]

The chisels came with straight (steel) ferrules which is what I modeled the dimensions from, but then it crept up in length as I added a taper. I went with brass because I had some fittings I could modify, and the wall is much thicker than the original steel ones.

But there are multiple ways to improve it with some basic design/assembly changes, and will try a different approach next time. Starting with more uniformity of the ferrules themselves.

At this point its a matter of putting them to use!