New Dust Collector Help

[Dan Richeson]

Hello

I have a smaller 1 stage grizzly dust collector with the filter on top and the plastic bag on the bottom.G0583 It has worked fine for me but with having a CNC now and the bag is a pain to empty. It seems I need to clean the filter every time also. Time to up grade. From most of the reading I have done on here the short cyclones are not that great for the money. I don't want to do a large oneida unit and spend 4 grand on that plus all the ducting. I was thinking is it dumb to buy a PM 1300 or PM1900 and add the oneida large dust deputy to it on a 30 gallon drum.

The harvey ones seem cool but the 700 machine does not really have that much CFM for the 3000 dollar price. I did stop by grizzly tools last month but I just not impressed with them. So they are out as a choice. I want to spend around 2 grand is my budget. I watched some stuff on the Laguna and it seems people go both ways on them also. Thanks

[Steven Cooper2]

If you plan on adding a chip separator, just do it and see how it works, you might not need to upgrade the dust collector itself.

I made my own from an old water softener brine tank, but a trash can would work as well. I use it with the 2hp harbor freight collector.

99% of the stuff will go in the bucket which is a bit easier to deal with compared to those stupid bag things. It's also quite large

Though I'm looking to get a short cyclone to save space at some point cause I'm in s small basement, maybe a g0860 or the next size up.

[Jim Becker]

Don't underestimate the Harvey G700. I'm running my new shop on one with a pretty large duct network and the results have been outstanding. (I had a big Oneida cyclone in my old, physically smaller shop) The Harvey is also much better on the sound level side. Be careful with the CFM listings for the mass market single stage units, too. They are, um...marketing numbers...

I'll also note that my CNC doesn't produce a "yuge" amount of dust/chips compared to other tools, such as my jointer/thicknesser. I did need to cut the grate out of the inlet on the Harvey because of how the Tersa knives on my jointer/thicknesser create fluffy shavings that can plug things up quickly. Emptying the bins is easy and I'm still using the original liner bags which I dump into 55 gallon heavy bags for disposal since I cannot compost them here on this much smaller property.

Here's where the G700 lives:

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Overall view including duct work:

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[Mark Wedel]

I recently added a chip separator to my HB dust collector. Fairly cheap to do - ~$20 for the elbows/fittings and ~$20 for the garbage can (I got a 20 gallon garbage can so that it fits under my workbench). It does a good job collecting a lot of the debris. What drove me to do this was I've started to do a bunch of bowl turning, and those shavings tend to be long and straw like, and the would tend to clog on the fan guard in the dust collector - the pre-separator means they don't get that far, and I think that taking a plastic garbage can to dump the wood chips out is easier than the plastic bag.

As far as the filter bag, before I'd empty the plastic bag, I'd just unhook the filter bag and knock all the loose dust from it (not removing it from the machine) so it would fall into the plastic bag. In theory, you want some amount of dust lining the filter bag - while it reduces airflow, it improves filtering as it clogs the holes of the filter bag to some degree.

[Aaron Inami]

The G700 is very nice, but you are paying for a lot of engineering. Great if you want the high end engineering and design (i.e. variable speed, quiet, good separation to a point).

I would look at the Jet JCDC-2 cyclone, based on your budget:

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/jet-cyclone-dust-collector-2hp

Though, it looks like Amazon has it for a very good price:
https://www.amazon.com/Jet-JCDC-2-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/dp/B01683ZVN8/ref=sr_1_1?th=1

It has a good size 14-1/2” impeller and will definitely pull a lot of air.

Your G0583 has a VERY small 9” impeller and you will see a significant increase in performance with either the G700 or the Jet JCDC-2.

[Aaron Inami]

The Laguna stuff can be nice, but I have read that they have spotty support. also, there is typically a lifetime of 4-7 years on their tools before they switch to a new manufacturer. The Jet will have parts/support available for a long time.

[Bill Dufour]

I see lots of good used units on craig's list for about 1/3-1/2 new prices. Not much to go wrong. May need motor bearings and a better filter.
Bill D

5HP Clearvue, $1,800 near you.

https://orlando.craigslist.org/tls/d/mount-dora-clear-vue-5hp-cyclone-dust/7698381620.html

https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/product/cv1700-three-phase/

[Michael Burnside]

I had a Laguna, I think C-flux 1? It was a bit older so I don't remember exactly. While nice, the CFM was laughably overrated. Like Jim says...marketing. I felt the footprint was rather large too. Build quality was decent but nothing to write home about. When I built the new shop I replaced it with an Oneida Supercell. It's outstanding, built to the highest standards and powerful, but 500-700 over your budget. The only other contender, for which I have experience and in your price range, is the Oneida Gorilla. IMHO Oneida is the best...all they do is dust collection. But they aren't the cheapest option, unfortunately.

I thought long and hard on the Harvey 700 and from what I researched, it's a great DC too, but it's also over your budget. I looked at ClearVue and I've seen one in person. While ClearVue no doubt make a great machine, they just seem huge to me LOL.

[Ole Anderson]

No need to spend tons on ducting. Just use 26 ga snap-lock from your local sheet metal supplier. https://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158878-DC-Steel-Duct-Install&highlight=

[Dan Richeson]

Thanks for the reply's. I wanted to have a budget of 2k but I know it will be more like 3k to find a nice machine. With buying a CNC this year put a big dent in the toy fund. I do like the harvey. Do you find the dust bin to be small? Is it like 14 gallons in size? Have you found any dislikes? I see that it is variable speed. Not sure why you would need that on a large machine like that.

I do like that super cell from Oneida. That one has some pretty cool features.

[Jim Becker]

The G700 has a dust bin capacity of about 35 gallons. The variable speed lets you enjoy even lower sound levels...the only time I run the VFD pedals to the metal is when I'm using the jointer/thicknesser. Otherwise, I knock it down about 20% or so. The only things that I've had to deal with on the G700 are the aforementioned grid in the inlet clogging with the fluffy shavings my FS35 produces with its Tersa knives and the master power switch being on the rear of the unit which while fine for mobile use like I did before getting all my quick connect ductwork installed, is an issue with a fixed position against a wall (and under a bench in my case). At the moment I use the breaker to kill it when I'm not in the shop, but I have the parts to construct a master electrical disconnect that will be mounted on the front of the bench.

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks for the reply's. I wanted to have a budget of 2k but I know it will be more like 3k to find a nice machine. With buying a CNC this year put a big dent in the toy fund. I do like the harvey. Do you find the dust bin to be small? Is it like 14 gallons in size? Have you found any dislikes? I see that it is variable speed. Not sure why you would need that on a large machine like that.

I do like that super cell from Oneida. That one has some pretty cool features.

I think I’d have a hard time getting used to any DC now that I’ve had a supercell. Being able to use a 2.5 hose that’s 30 feet long to clean my shop and tools is awesome. It’s seriously powerful. There is no tool in my shop that the Oneida cannot keep up with. I own all the usual suspects. My 15” planer doesn’t even bother it.

I always wear ear protection so it’s not loud IMHO, but I’m sure the Harvey is in the range where if you’re wearing them, you might not know if you’ve turned it on yet LOL.

[Larry Frank]

The G700 is unique and quiet but price is very high given the performance curve. I think 700 cfm for $2400 plus $500 shipping is a lot of money for that level of performance.

[Jim Becker]

The G700 is unique and quiet but price is very high given the performance curve. I think 700 cfm for $2400 plus $500 shipping is a lot of money for that level of performance.
I originally thought the same, but it's surprised me a lot...it's performing better than the Oneida I had in the old shop. Now to be sure, my duct work network is a better design here which is largely because of having the ability to run it more efficiently and also optimize it better than at the old shop.

[Aaron Inami]

The G-700 actually has a somewhat smaller impeller (only 12"), but it achieves its performance by using a VFD and running the motor at higher RPM (4275). This is 25% faster than your typical 3450 RPM induction motor. I hope the guys at Harvey selected a motor that is built and rated for this higher RPM. I googled and found a couple comments regarding higher RPM on a normal TEFC Induction motor:

https://www.quora.com/How-we-increease-the-speed-of-an-induction-motor-above-the-rated-speed

-In an induction motor you can over speed the motor using a variable frequency drive. You will lose power output as you go above the rated speed. This is due to the fact you will get less magnetic saturation of the stator as the frequency increases.

-Running the motor at full torque and higher frequency may, however, cause overheating due to excess magnetic and copper losses.

Just some thoughts...

[Dan Barber]

At only 25% over nominal speed, the VFD should not affect the motor substantially if the motor is of decent construction (which I'm sure it is). Now doubling the design speed, that could cause issues. Overspeeding is done routinely in industrial applications with VFD's. The dust collector motor is lightly loaded so overheating is unlikely.

[Aaron Inami]

Actually, a dust collector motor is one of the highest current pulling motors in a wood working machinery. You will frequently reach "max running amps" easily in many situations unless you are running the motor at 50% speed. If you have blast gates open and you are moving air, the motor is using a lot of amps! In comparison, a table saw motor running at idle will only be pulling about 1/3 or so of the rated amps.

[Dan Barber]

Okay, "lightly loaded" was taken too literally. I understand a fan in a dust collector is loaded heavier with more blast gates open, up to its HP capability. That loading does not affect its life in anyway previously described. VFD's have specific settings for handling fan and pump applications. The point is 25% overspeed is not an issue with a decent motor.

[Dan Richeson]

Thanks for the info on the super cell. It’s yours the turbo or standard model? Is the turbo just a bigger motor? Thanks

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks for the info on the super cell. It’s yours the turbo or standard model? Is the turbo just a bigger motor? Thanks

Mine is the non-Turbo model. When I spoke with Oneida we concluded that the Supercell was more than adequate as I am only using 2.5” and 4” ducts. The turbo motors move even more air and can support 5-6” hoses. I’ve never felt I needed more on any of my machines (sawstop, 15” planer, 8” jointer, 19” drum sander, 14” bandsaw, etc.). As mentioned, for me, being able to use a 30’ long hose that’s 2.5” diameter to clean my shop/tools is invaluable. I tried the same hose on my Rockler 1250 just for fun and it was so, so bad LOL.

[Dan Richeson]

I was checking out the DC-1450 from baileigh. Found it on sale for just under 2k. Looks like they have been making that unit for about 10 years now. Seems that would be about double the power from the machine I have now. Anyone have any machines from them? My concern with the super cell is that when I have the cnc running and I want to use another machine the super cell is not rated to work like that.

[Aaron Inami]

Baleigh DC-1450 looks like a variation of the Jet JCDC-2 that I recommended earlier. The Jet is $1784 from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Jet-JCDC-2-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/dp/B01683ZVN8/ref=sr_1_1?th=1

The Baleigh does not publish impeller size. You would have to ask them directly if it's the same size as the Jet 14-1/2" impeller. That's the important part. Both machines are likely very similar quality. Jet has a slightly larger window on the drum to show sawdust level. Jet also has a remote control.

[Jim Becker]

Dan, I strongly suspect you will find that the unit you refer to was made in the same factory as others with different paint. I don't recall negative remarks about Balleigh machines and at one point, they were a forum advertiser if my memory is sound.

[Dan Richeson]

I did make a call to Oneida and talked with Guy. It seems the super cell maybe the way to go. I may just keep the old grizzly for the CNC machine as it does a good job on that. I did order one of those Jet separators to try out as Woodcraft had them on sale for 29 bucks from 180. For that kind of money I gave it a shot plus free shipping.

[Michael Burnside]

Sound logic Dan. While I do have the supercell too, I use a Rockler 1250 with Oneida separator dedicated to my CNC. I’m quite happy with it and I have the room. I like the idea of adding the wear and tear to the Rockler for longer CNC caves anyway. When it dies I’ll probably buy a Gorilla.

[Dan Richeson]

Thanks Michael, I see your in Colorado. We moved from there little over 2 years now. Lived in Colorado Springs.

I was thinking the same thing on wearing out the 450 dollar grizzly one for that longer run time and it don't make tons of dust. I was thinking of going with the turbo model but I think the extra price seems awful high for adding just one more motor to it. Seven hundred more!!! what is the cost of a replacement motor for these? I wouldn't think all 4 motors would cost 700 so why are they charging that for one extra motor? Just don't seem right to me. I could see a few hundred more.

[Patty Hann]

Mine is the non-Turbo model. ...

Michael, did you get the wall mount or then free-standing model?
Can you tell me please what the model# is? Thanks

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks Michael, I see your in Colorado. We moved from there little over 2 years now. Lived in Colorado Springs.

I was thinking the same thing on wearing out the 450 dollar grizzly one for that longer run time and it don't make tons of dust. I was thinking of going with the turbo model but I think the extra price seems awful high for adding just one more motor to it. Seven hundred more!!! what is the cost of a replacement motor for these? I wouldn't think all 4 motors would cost 700 so why are they charging that for one extra motor? Just don't seem right to me. I could see a few hundred more.

Yep, love Co Dan!

When I talked with Oneida and gave them a rundown of my shop/tools they said I didn't need the Turbo. I personally couldn't be more happy with it, and like I said, being able to use a 30' shop-vac hose to clean tools/shop is just awesome. I did opt for the 30 gallon version and I'm glad I did. I usually can do a couple of projects, including all the milling, without filling it. I don't know much about the motor replacements for the turbo as I quickly realized it wasn't for me. When I talked to Oneida about the non-turbo, it sounded like they sell the motors in a set ($290 I think), but if you had a bad one, you could technically use one motor but they recommend replacing as a set. Basically, they told me that they should last a long time (many years) and that if one hits end-of-life the others may not be far behind. IMHO replaceable motors are a HUGE plus. Everything else on this thing is a tank and will outlast me :)

[Michael Burnside]

Michael, did you get the wall mount or then free-standing model?
Can you tell me please what the model# is? Thanks

I got the wall mount version. I believe the model is XSK000030.

Basically, non-turbo, 30 gallon drum, wall mount. The wall mount unit is incredibly compact as it just goes up and doesn't stick out very far. You can also rotate the top motor and inlet portions to optimize what works best for you.

[Patty Hann]

I got the wall mount version. I believe the model is XSK000030.

Basically, non-turbo, 30 gallon drum, wall mount. The wall mount unit is incredibly compact as it just goes up and doesn't stick out very far. You can also rotate the top motor and inlet portions to optimize what works best for you.

Sounds like a winner.
I use 2-1/2" duct/hoses and smaller... may have a need for one 4 inch hose in the future.
Thanks

[Brian Holcombe]

I was recently between the G700 and supercell. Went with G700 since it’s quieter. This unit will be for the lathe and shaper.

I have an Oneida cyclone (plastic model), and I’m not thrilled with it. Been using it for years and it seems to constantly put material into the filter. I may replace it with either another G700, or Al-Ko depending on how much longer I can deal with the thing.

[Justin Rapp]

I have a Laguna c-flux 3 and it's ducted to all the tools in my shop with 6" 26g stove pipe hvac ducts, dropped down to 4 to connect to the tools. It did have one failure on the contactor device and Laguna sent me out the entire switch/control board unit without question, while under warranty. I've been happy with it and emptying it is a piece of cake compared to the single stage I used to have.

[Brian Holcombe]

The Harvey is in, delivered yesterday and I installed it. So far I'm very impressed by this machine, it's made beautifully, nice and quiet.

My only complaint is that I think they should have the rotary disconnect switch on the same side as the VFD panel. I have it backed against a wall, so I setup the electrical to have a disconnect at the wall and just leave the rotary in the armed position.

Outside of that minor gripe, I hooked it up to the shaper, seems like it should work well.

[Jim Becker]

My only complaint is that I think they should have the rotary disconnect switch on the same side as the VFD panel. I have it backed against a wall, so I setup the electrical to have a disconnect at the wall and just leave the rotary in the armed position.
I had the same "complaint" (which I did make back to them) about the main power disconnect being on the back of the unit. It's fine if it's mobile, but if it's installed back to the wall like it is in my shop and many others who use the system with duct work, the only way to kill the power to the VFD is by either unplugging or killing the breaker in the panel. I'm using the breaker currently, but bought a rotary switch to make up an alternative main cutoff between the 240v wall outlet and the cord of the unit. Because of the heavy steel construction, merely relocating the OEM main switch somewhere else on the unit isn't going to happen.

I think you're going to enjoy the G700. I really like being able to "dial it back" a little when I don't need maximum performance which in turn lowers the already reasonable sound level. I only use it "cranked" when milling at the jointer/thicknesser in my shop.

[Brian Holcombe]

Looking forward to putting it to work!