Router table vs Shaper

[Steve Demuth]

I'm just about ready to buy a European combo machine (A Minimax C30G, to be precise) to replace my low-end, but perfectly servicable hybrid table saw, standalone jointer and Dewalt 635 planer. All good - I've pretty much convinced myself to live with combo planer-jointer limitations. The thing that's holding me up is that I have a cast iron router table with quality lift and a good router spindle, and a wide collection of bit profiles that I use a lot in my woodworking. It's attached to the table saw, and I really don't have room for it as a standalone machine in the shop, if I go ahead with the Minimax. So my go to machine for most router work will have to be the shaper on the Minimax (I can do some things with my horizontal router table/mortiser, but not most things).

Anyone have experience with going from a very solid router table setup to a combo machine shaper, and the resulting bit profile poverty and change in capabilities? Regrets?

[Zachary Hoyt]

I made my current router table from an 18" square aluminum plate, 3/8" thick. It is hinged to the end of a work table so that when it is not in use it can be folded down, and the router then sticks into the space under the table. You might be able to take your current router table top and hinge it to a wall, table or other machine in a similar way, so that you could keep it for when you need it without taking up too much room.

[brent stanley]

Hi Steve, can you get a router spindle for your shaper? That might solve a lot of your problems though the RPM will almost always be lower than what a router can do though that is leas limiting than people think. I have two good quality shapers and a huge assortment of tooling, but still use my router table a half dozen times a year.

[Richard Coers]

If you use router bits in a shaper, you have to learn to feed much slower due to the lower speeds of the shaper. Most important for small diameter router bits. LOTS of difference between the cut at 18,000 to 9,000 rpm. I have a bench top planer and a free standing router table along with a Minimax combination machine. Not unusual that I don't want to convert the combination machine from jointer to thickness planer for 2 boards. Same goes for the router table.

[jack duren]

I would think it depends on how much work you do.

[Derek Cohen]

Steve, since the shaper and router table are not the same you have choices:

1. Keep the router table you arefond of and use it in place of the shaper. In which case, get a combination machine without the shaper.

2. Get the combo machine with the shaper, and use both. Each excels in different ways.

3. If challenged for space, add the router table to the outfeed on the combo machine (I did this with a Hammer K3).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rod Sheridan]

I’ve always had a shaper and don’t own a router table.

Having a combination machine, I enjoy a sliding table, a tilting spindle, the ability to reverse rotation and of course a stock feeder.

You can also use an outboard fence with a feeder and dimension and profile in one pass.

I would never consider a router table a replacement for a shaper.

Regards, Rod

[Jim Becker]

Another option that's available to you is to use a small, benchtop router table setup for simple "small tooling" edge work, etc., and employ the embedded shaper in the combo only for the heavier work with larger diameter tooling (even if it's still router bits) where RPM can be slower with less effect on the work. There are so many designs that folks have come up with for smaller router workstations that can fill this role. When not in use, these things can tuck away really easily.

[jack duren]

I’m afraid I’ve worked with both. Unless you are setting up to run cabinet doors, etc, or 1000+ft of trim, the router table will handle most everything.If your determined to get a shaper then you’ve probably decided..

[ChrisA Edwards]

I have a router table, actually two, and a Shaper.

My router table gets used 99.99% of the time. I would not give up my router table for a Shaper if it was a choice between one or the other.

[Mike Cutler]

My router table was also fairly large and heavy duty. It also took up quite a bit of space.
Once I bought a shaper, and got over the internet misinformation about running router bits in a shaper, my router table eventually became a gardening bench. All of the insert hardware is still in the shop though, should I ever want to integrate it into something else.
It's tough, because you have a lot of $$$$ tied up in your current system. Router bits may be cheaper than shaper cutters, but they're still not inexpensive.
If the combo machine comes with a router collet adapter, give it a whirl so to speak with your current router bits. Keep your router table if at all possible, at least for awhile. It's very handy to have the ability to have two machines setup to run different profiles, or steps, in a project.

[Steve Demuth]

Once I bought a shaper, and got over the internet misinformation about running router bits in a shaper

Can you say more about this? What is your experience running router bits in the machine?

[brent stanley]

Can you say more about this? What is your experience running router bits in the machine?

I have run a number of router bits in my shaper at 9000rpm without any issue. You will need to listen to the machine and find the sweet spot between overfeeding and going to slow and burning, but you'll find it's quite possible. I believe the smallest I did was a 1/2" straight flute bit and chose to hand feed so I could make instant feed rate changes and feel my way along, and it worked fine.

[Jared Sankovich]

I used to have a rt in the right wing of my TS, I removed it years ago when I changed table saws and haven't missed it. I still have thr jessem lift and pc7518 but they just sit in a drawer. I can do 99.99% of what was RT work on one of my shapers with a 40mm or corrugated knife.

[Warren Lake]

A reality will be the shaper cant do tight radius work. Havent had the router table in over 40 years but prefer the router in my hand so jig up so I can hand hold and climb cut as much as I want.

[Mike Cutler]

Can you say more about this? What is your experience running router bits in the machine?

Steve
You can run any router bit in a shaper, that can be mounted in a router table, and some work even better. The larger router bits for rails and stiles, table edges, T&G's, etc, are designed to be run at 10Krpm. I have some Freud, and Whiteside, cabinet profile router bit sets and they work very nice. A 1/2" spiral bit with a top bearing, works really well in a shaper table at 10K.
The smallest bits I have used are 1/2" diameter straight bits. Contrary to popular belief, you can perform plunging operations with router bits on a shaper table, and do it accurately. You do have to make accommodations for dust collection though. That can be a little tricky.
I started using a shaper when I was about 12 years old, I'm 64 now. It's a machine that I am comfortable with. We didn't have router tables in wood shop in school in the 70's, and routers in the 70's were kind of "beefy". Not as nice, and cross functional, as they are now.

[Joel Gelman]

I used to have a Knapp Saw-shaper and a Jointer-Planer combo. Having the JP was not very problematic. Having a Saw-Shaper.... I ended up not using the shaper. I now have separates with more shop space. I know that there are people out there who say the changeover is not so bad, but I would not say that is the majority. I think that is especially the case if you are using a router spindle and bits on it in addition to shaper tooling as then you have frequent changeover.

My 0.02 is to avoid having a Saw-Shaper combo if at all possible. If you end up with the saw-shaper, then why not keep the router table, even if in storage, and see if you can get that shaper to work as your router table before getting rid of the nice router table. That is what I did. I ended up getting rid of my nice router table with Excalibur cast iron top, Incra fence, and router lift. Some shapers function with router bits better than others. Depends on the fence setup. My max speed is 12k, that I have no problem with that including smaller bits. Sure it is "supposed to turn faster, but at 12k it cuts the wood properly and that is what I care about.