LT 18 Resaw Master new motor

[robert totorica]

I have an LT18 that I've had for a few years that is in need of a new motor. It still runs but it goes to max current (25A) as soon as you turn it on even with no load. I took it to a motor guy and he confirmed my diagnosis that it has shorted winding and it won't last long. The vintage if it matters is 1998. Since it is the resaw master version it has the 4.5hp (?) Italian motor currently. So what is the best way to go for a replacement motor? I've been trying to get a hold of Laguna for the last several days but I guess they are gone for the holidays. In researching it I saw where Laguna was offering a Baldor 3HP upgrade kit with an adapter plate but I don't see anything recent on this so I'm guessing they aren't doing it anymore. I saw a 3hp motor on their web site for $540 but there was no description or brand designation. I think they are deploying Baldor motors currently so is this one a Baldor ? I don't know that I'll be doing any huge resaw work so I was thinking a 3hp would be adequate, hopefully no regret if I go that way.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.
...robert

[Tom Trees]

"I've been trying to get a hold of Laguna for the last several days but I guess they are gone for the holidays"
Seems Laguna have dropped the Italian line, as I haven't been able to see any new LT series machines.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I;m left with the feeling the company sold out, or has switched to exclusively badging Far Eastern manufacturers?
as I've came across some mention of Laguna's "sister company" Charnwood.
I can't imagine the Italian's would be happy about that phrase.
Could have been in the workings for a long time....should that be reason why you see the Novellara made, ACM badged/spec'ed SCM formula machines
being sold in the USA now, might explain things?

Could be wrong there, and there's a difference between Laguna USA and UK?

Tom

[robert totorica]

This one was actually made in Italy.

[Tom Trees]

I believe Leeson motors are the go to choice for the Italian machines, well at least for the well heeled,
so it might be worth searching for something like "the Italian motors run hot"
to get some links perhaps?

Perhaps SCM might be able sort you out either, likely for an excessive amount though.
Felder seems to have halted the "smaller" Novellara saws, but could be worth seeing if that might be worth a look.

Tom

[Jamie Buxton]

Laguna currently offers the LT18 Resaw Master with a Leeson 5HP motor. In fact, all the LT saws I looked at use the same 5HP Leeson motor. They are referred to as Italian quality, and the owner's manual refer to ACM. The posting on the Laguna site says that the LT18 Resaw Master is not in stock, but the LT18 is in stock.

[Richard Coers]

I have an LT18 that I've had for a few years that is in need of a new motor. It still runs but it goes to max current (25A) as soon as you turn it on even with no load.
With a bandsaw, there is no such thing of starting with no load. You have to spin up 2 huge flywheels. All bandsaws go to max when you push the start button.. Start load is super high on bandsaws because the large rotating mass in the wheels, My first experience with high load starting on a bandsaw was a electrical guy I knew, said he could make me a static phase convertor. He installed the static phase convertor and hit the switch. The wheels started to spin, then a huge capacitor in his phase convertor exploded like a volcano. Proof positive of high start loading.

[Erik Loza]

Richard is right about the starting amp draw (that story is hilarious). To the OP, I think your most direct path forward would be to just call Laguna after the holiday weekend. Not email or chatbot, but actually pick up the phone, reach a human being, and see if they can sell you a new Leeson or Baldor plus whatever adapter plate is needed. If your current motor is Italian, it could even be 50Hz, so any US-spec motor would probably be a huge upgrade. Good luck and happy holidays.

Erik

[robert totorica]

Thanks guys.
I certainly do plan to get a hold of those guys after the holidays, I just thought I would see if anyone has had a recent experience with replacing Laguna motors. Happy to hear they are using Leeson motors right now, they have been good quality historically. Current motor is made by TM Motori in Italy, but as far as I can tell, they are out of business. It is 60Hz though.
As far as current draw, I wasn't really trying to indicate the draw during the first few seconds when the huge wheels are coming up to speed. I don't don't have an oscilloscope to instrument that. Using my meter it settles in at 25A after a few seconds. Same behavior even with the drive belts off so yes, the motor is close to death.
Good story about the phase converter though.... As an engineer, you need to understand the boundary conditions of your design , not just the steady state. I guess he missed that....

Merry Christmas
....robert

[robert totorica]

So I finally got a hold of Laguna and talked to one of there tech support guys. They don't really support these older saws much, he offered a 5hp motor for $1740 and I would have to come up with my own adapter plate. So they don't have much value add to work with them...

I found a 3 hp farm duty(I guess farm duty implies high starting torque) locally but it is a 1725 rpm motor instead of a 3450 rpm motor that it currently has. So the question....
Any reason I couldn't replace the current 2.5' pulley with a 5' to get the speed correct? It might be a little tight but I think it will fit. I probably would have to buy a new pulley regardless since I bet the euro motor probably has a metric shaft and any replacement motor wouldn't.
Thought on the pulley replacement?
thx

[John Kananis]

I would take that original motor to a shop and have it looked at. Why do you need a new one?


So I finally got a hold of Laguna and talked to one of there tech support guys. They don't really support these older saws much, he offered a 5hp motor for $1740 and I would have to come up with my own adapter plate. So they don't have much value add to work with them...

I found a 3 hp farm duty(I guess farm duty implies high starting torque) locally but it is a 1725 rpm motor instead of a 3450 rpm motor that it currently has. So the question....
Any reason I couldn't replace the current 2.5' pulley with a 5' to get the speed correct? It might be a little tight but I think it will fit. I probably would have to buy a new pulley regardless since I bet the euro motor probably has a metric shaft and any replacement motor wouldn't.
Thought on the pulley replacement?
thx

[robert totorica]

I've taken it to a motor shop and he said it is close to death. As I mentioned it goes to max current with no load and eventually trips the thermal overload.

[Dan Barber]

Can you post a picture of the name plate on the existing motor please?

[robert totorica]

513444Hopefully you can read this

[Tom Trees]

It might be worth noting that the pulleys on most the ACM saws are mounted quite far out from the motor shaft,
with an extremely close fit, so a replacement pulley on a differing motor would likely need be the same fit.
513451513452
If you need make a plate, it'll have to go inside the machine, and if it's a 4 pole motor with a larger pulley, then you'll want to make
sure it's aligned.
I can speak from experience, having replaced motor bearings by foolish assumptions before.
i.e fitting a new belt, of the same brand/spec, but not stretched, which might not have been OEM anyway...
whilst also having the assumption the back of the chassis might be a good starting point in regards to getting the bottom wheel to run nicely
without vibration.
So beware of disregarding that with a larger pulley involved, and be advised doing tests with a loose belt, should it be possible to have that luxury,
like they do with some other machines.
513446
That turned out to be a bad idea
513449

Incase you might be wondering, the upper wheel is where the datum point is!
i.e something like this
513450

So if your compact Italian saw is tight for space in that regards, then you might need align it, ideally with a wideish bit of timber something like below
proportions, cut to length as required, and need lower the motor for balance sakes, and using a pen instead of a pencil for best results.
513456
a bearing for clearing the shaft was what I used when the pulley was adjusted for depth.
513457

Hope that helps
Tom

[Erik Loza]

…Hopefully you can read this

Robert, I understand that the motor shop said your unit was “near death” but did they elaborate beyond that? I have no experience in motor repair but did have many customers get their motors re-wound. I mean, it’s just magnets, copper windings, bearings, and a capacitor, right? Just wondering if you explored that possibility with them? Inquiring because I don’t ever seem to recall a customer sharing that their motor was so far gone that it couldn’t be repaired.

Erik

[Dan Barber]

Robert, I understand that the motor shop said your unit was “near death” but did they elaborate beyond that? I have no experience in motor repair but did have many customers get their motors re-wound. I mean, it’s just magnets, copper windings, bearings, and a capacitor, right? Just wondering if you explored that possibility with them? Inquiring because I don’t ever seem to recall a customer sharing that their motor was so far gone that it couldn’t be repaired.

Erik

Erik,
I agree, a good motor shop should be able to rebuild that motor. If unable to find someone to rebuild it, I'd look for an equivalent IEC motor before messing around with modified mounting and pully gymnastics.

[Bill Howatt]

I was told by a motor shop that the cost of rewinding a motor that is under, say, 10 HP (IIRC) is not worth the labor and materials cost compared to replacing it. Of course, if you have motor that is not easily replaceable by a common type then the equation can change.

[Erik Loza]

I was told by a motor shop that the cost of rewinding a motor that is under, say, 10 HP (IIRC) is not worth the labor and materials cost compared to replacing it. Of course, if you have motor that is not easily replaceable by a common type then the equation can change.

Bill, I think the OP definitely falls into your category. It’s a metric-framed 5HP motor. Can you imgine how much time/work would be involved in trying to source out a direct replacement with appropriate rpm, shaft size, etc., versus getting the original unit rewound (if possible)? I’m super curious now.

Erik

[Brian Holcombe]

Shouldn’t be terribly difficult to get a new one. Order from a European brand rather than try to convert US stuff. Pick a similar HP motor with the same frame size, rpm and input voltage/phase.

I like a brand named Lafert.

[Tom Trees]

I'd personally want to make sure I wasn't paying a fortune to source a replacement like for like,
without knowing if the lower portion of the chassis which the motor is bolted to,
was aligned with the upper wheel.

Might as well upgrade the machine IMO to make the saw fully adjustable, so that the wheels can be aligned,
(without upsetting things)
as it ain't no fun repairing wheel bores.
Playin the lottery otherwise.
.
All the best
Tom

513505

[robert totorica]

Robert, I understand that the motor shop said your unit was “near death” but did they elaborate beyond that? I have no experience in motor repair but did have many customers get their motors re-wound. I mean, it’s just magnets, copper windings, bearings, and a capacitor, right? Just wondering if you explored that possibility with them? Inquiring because I don’t ever seem to recall a customer sharing that their motor was so far gone that it couldn’t be repaired.

Erik

The issue is even on the bench with no load, the motor draws 26amps. The full load current is 25amps. This is why it trips the thermal overload after running for a while. There is only one reason it would do this and that is shorted windings.

As far as repair with new windings, he said they don't do it much anymore because it isn't financially feasible until you are talking about a motor that is 100hp or more. Like everything else, I think the cost of labor is killing them....

[Tom M King]

Just for curiosity, call these people:

https://www.electricmotorshopnc.com/what-we-do/rewind-facility/

[robert totorica]

Tom, thanks for the great insight on what I have coming my way. I just closed a deal for a 3hp 4 pole motor for $175. It will take a little work to get it mounted of course....
Here is a pic of my situation. Like yours, the closest interference for the larger 5" pulley is the belt tensioner rod but it will clear with a 1/2" to spare.


513517

[Tom Trees]

I've since had a look at the saw in question, with the job in mind,
to see if looks like it's as easy as on my 24" ACM saw, and seemingly the most complicated issue one might have is bolting it to the right hand side of the machine.
There's about an inch of steel plate between the motor mounting bolt and the section let in for the trunnion,
so it would complicate matters slightly, perhaps bridging the gap might be the way to go, in order to have a fixing on each corner.

If thinking of hooking the motor up too quick, since you sound very speedy in that regards
Note if it has any housings to consider, as one may need to orientate it in some particular fashion to not foul against something,
that's considering it'll need be let into the machine slightly.
Be interesting to see if you're 18 inch wheels will give a reading with the scribing beam, as I mentioned alignment matters
especially regarding a pulley what's double the size. mine is a 3 phase 2 pole motor BTW, so perhaps a bit less thought needed,
as I see this machine comes in single phase, should the replacement have some differing shroud.



,
513520

Here's some links for that, as with all my links possibly better to read backwards
That's assuming you've bought a flange mounted motor, if not then not much else to see there.
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8456
https://www.woodworkforums.com/f27/dressing-bandsaw-tires-method-truing-wheels-edge-question-ye-244105/2
All the best
Tom