A Christmas Wish

[Patty Hann]

An ongoing gripe I have is that very few of the more specialized suppliers of tools will post the COO (Country Of Origin) in the description.
Maybe the Super-high-end suppliers do, but in that case I doubt if they are using any country outside the US/CN or W. Europe.
Not talking about the big (or not so big) machines.

Lee Valley will mention it if the COO is Canada or Japan.
Infinity Tools might post it but I can't recall for certain.
Taylor Tools doesn't post it unless it is made in the US.
Same with Peachtree, only posts CCO if it is US.
Woodpeckers does not for the very few tools they don't make.
I'm just naming a few off the top of my head... I know there are many more.

And you can't assume that if no COO is listed then the tool is made somewhere in China or Taiwan or Korea.
It could be made in India, Pakistan, Poland, The Czech republic...
Even if the seller has it listed on Amazon (which I think requires a COO in the description) the COO listed may be incorrect.
I have found that to be the case many times.

It just gets really old having to contact suppliers to learn the COO of something, and then it may only send a boilerplate reply, or not answer the question I am asking.
It's really a simple question: "Where is item [part#] manufactured? ", and I emphasize 'manufactured'.
It's amazing that so many CS reps apparently don't understand English (or maybe it's the multi-syllabic word "manufactured" that stumps them :rolleyes:)
I am "running out of time" and I just hate wasting it on back and forth emails, that would be unnecessary if the COO was posted at the end of the tool description.

So my Christmas Wish (after Peace on Earth, which we sorely need) is that suppliers post the COO of an item.
(Yep, I know...Good luck with that.")

[John Ziebron]

I hope your wish comes true Patty. The simple solution might be to just not buy the tool if the COO isn't listed. But then if it's somethinig that you would really want waste a little time trying to find the answer. And in that case maybe a little customer coercion might work, like "I'm interested in your tool but won't buy it unless you can tell me the country it was made in". And explain that "assembled in" is not the same as where the parts were made.

[Patty Hann]

I hope your wish comes true Patty. The simple solution might be to just not buy the tool if the COO isn't listed. But then if it's somethinig that you would really want waste a little time trying to find the answer. And in that case maybe a little customer coercion might work, like "I'm interested in your tool but won't buy it unless you can tell me the country it was made in". And explain that "assembled in" is not the same as where the parts were made.

Oh, I almost always get a satisfactory answer... eventually.
By satisfactory I mean it makes sense, or actually answers my question, and the answer most often is "China."
Still, I have been surprised at times with answers like "The Czech Republic."
But what I'm getting at is the waste of [my] time in having to have that conversation in the first place.
Just post the COO, da^^^^it, and be done with it.
And the I won't have to email or call.

[roger wiegand]

I suspect if you get your wish you'll find labeling like the food label "may contains". Even simple things almost certainly originate in multiple countries, and the sourcing varies from month to month or year to year, depending on what it costs to do different operations where at different times. In machines with multiple parts that list of origins is going to be long indeed.

By the time you build a complex machine like a CNC router or a high end combination machine with hundreds or thousands of parts I suspect it would take a serious forensic accounting effort to compile the list of origins for any given machine and add substantially to the cost if such accounting were required.

I strongly prefer to buy tools where the high value steps get done in countries with reasonable labor standards, I have to admit that I don't have the energy to worry about where each capacitor and resistor in the VFD came from.

[Patty Hann]

I suspect if you get your wish you'll find labeling like the food label "may contains". Even simple things almost certainly originate in multiple countries, and the sourcing varies from month to month or year to year, depending on what it costs to do different operations where at different times. In machines with multiple parts that list of origins is going to be long indeed.

By the time you build a complex machine like a CNC router or a high end combination machine with hundreds or thousands of parts I suspect it would take a serious forensic accounting effort to compile the list of origins for any given machine and add substantially to the cost if such accounting were required.
I strongly prefer to buy tools where the high value steps get done in countries with reasonable labor standards, I have to admit that I don't have the energy to worry about where each capacitor and resistor in the VFD came from.

if you re-read my post, I'm referring to smaller tools/hand tools, not big machines.
If Lee valley is selling some chisels I want to know where they are coming from.
If it's China I don't care which of the 300 factories in China they come from or if Lee valley changes which factory in China it is using. I just want to know the country.
It shouldn't be a big problem for a set of chisels or dust collection adapters or a set of Router bits to say in the description copy "Made in [country]".
They say it readily enough for the tools they sell that are made in Japan, or in Canada.

[Frederick Skelly]

Good Christmas wish!

On a tangent that’s still “kind of” related to COO, I read an article yesterday that said Nippon Steel is trying to buy United States Steel.

[Stan Calow]

I am old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" was a running joke for everyone to describe something cheaply and shoddily made. Now it's a sign of quality.

I don't think it is common in much of the world to require labeling of COO, but I agree that I'd like to know where something comes from. I may not have a choice, but it's suspicious if it doesnt say. Nevertheless, the market will always drive jobs to where labor is cheapest, and most people will buy most things on price only.

[Edward Weber]

An ongoing gripe I have is that very few of the more specialized suppliers of tools will post the COO (Country Of Origin) in the description.
Maybe the Super-high-end suppliers do, but in that case I doubt if they are using any country outside the US/CN or W. Europe.
Not talking about the big (or not so big) machines.

So my Christmas Wish (after Peace on Earth, which we sorely need) is that suppliers post the COO of an item.
(Yep, I know...Good luck with that.")

I feel your pain.
Every time I look to purchase something/anything, I feel I should put on my deerstalker cap, strike a match, light my pipe and start looking through my magnifying glass to get to the truth of what's what.

What I consider as normal, obvious information is often lost, missing or hard to find on many products, COO being just one.

[Rick Potter]

I go at it backwards. If it doesn't say where it is manufactured I assume it is made in China or some other place like it. Items made in 'friendly' countries are proud to be labeled.

[Jim Koepke]

if you re-read my post, I'm referring to smaller tools/hand tools, not big machines.
If Lee valley is selling some chisels I want to know where they are coming from.
If it's China I don't care which of the 300 factories in China they come from or if Lee valley changes which factory in China it is using. I just want to know the country.
It shouldn't be a big problem for a set of chisels or dust collection adapters or a set of Router bits to say in the description copy "Made in [country]".
They say it readily enough for the tools they sell that are made in Japan, or in Canada.

It may be the people writing the ad copy are also left in the dark about where the products are made. They may even be working for a different company than the one selling the item.

While in a retail store yesterday there was a kit of tools without any indication of where they were made. At one time, I believe, it was required for products to list their country of origin. If it is no longer the case, how did that happen? Most likely somehow our lawmakers received enough pressure (spelled m-o-n-e-y) to change the law.


As a general matter, the Tariff Act of 1930 (Tariff Act) requires that every article of foreign origin (or its container) imported into the U.S. be marked in a manner that indicates to the ultimate purchaser the article's country of origin.


Every article of foreign origin entering the United States must be legibly marked with the English name of the country of origin unless an exception from marking is provided for in the law.


On December 18, 2015, Congress repealed the original COOL law for beef and pork, as a part of the omnibus budget bill because of a series of WTO rulings that prohibited labels based on country of origin on some products.

jtk

[roger wiegand]

The trade regulation definitions of country of origin are a real rats nest, driven largely, I suspect, by the needs of Ford, GM, and Stellantis to call cars with 90% foreign content "American".

[Edward Weber]

The trade regulation definitions of country of origin are a real rats nest, driven largely, I suspect, by the needs of Ford, GM, and Stellantis to call cars with 90% foreign content "American".

Yes, like all those tools that have a red, white & blue flag decal that says,
Assembled in USA with global parts

[Brian Runau]

With the 51% rule a lot of companies by parts offshore and put in 51% of the cost here making it made in USA. Really is about the company, the specifications they provide, sample testing they do and control and monitoring of their supply chain. Many levels of quality coming out of offshore manufacturers. Brian

[Ole Anderson]

The issue isn't really the country of origin, it is the specifications the company uses when negotiating offshore manufacturing. China is perfectly capable of producing very high quality goods (think Apple). It is when they accept the notion that when they go offshore, they let the manufacturer set the standard rather than giving them a tight specification and requiring QC.

[Edward Weber]

The issue isn't really the country of origin, it is the specifications the company uses when negotiating offshore manufacturing. China is perfectly capable of producing very high quality goods (think Apple). It is when they accept the notion that when they go offshore, they let the manufacturer set the standard rather than giving them a tight specification and requiring QC.
Not everyone seems to understand that, but it needs to be said more often.

[Jim Koepke]

I have seen quality products from almost every country on this planet.

The same goes for junk made in almost every corner of the earth.

My preference is to spend my hard earned money paying the salaries of my fellow occupants of the North American continent.

That way they might have a chance of coming back my way some day.

jtk

[Patty Hann]

Not everyone seems to understand that, but it needs to be said more often.
Actually I do understand that.
As someone mentioned (here?) a country that can successfully launch space vehicles has no problem building to spec/to very tight tolerances.
But I prefer not to send my shekels to China (Taiwan is OK because it's not China) if there is an alternative (and sometimes there isn't).

[David William]

I completely understand your frustration with the lack of Country of Origin details. It's essential information for informed decisions. Hopefully, suppliers will take note of your wish and make it easier for customers. May your Christmas be filled with peace, joy, and straightforward COO listings!

[Edward Weber]

Actually I do understand that.
As someone mentioned (here?) a country that can successfully launch space vehicles has no problem building to spec/to very tight tolerances.
But I prefer not to send my shekels to China (Taiwan is OK because it's not China) if there is an alternative (and sometimes there isn't).

I would also prefer to spend my money on American made products, unfortunately, there is often little to no choice as you say. There are also budgetary concerns that always need to be considered. The COO listings (properly displayed) would help the discriminating consumer.
I have a shop full of tools from probably every country that makes tools, they all have their place.

I did a quick gogle search for "where are Milwaukee tools made"
Milwaukee tools today are manufactured globally in China, Germany, Mexico, the United States , and Vietnam
and
DeWalt, Mexico, Brazil, the United Kingdom, and China.
Makita, Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, Romania, the United Kingdom, Germany, United Arab Emirates, Thailand, Canada, and the United States

I don't remember ever seeing these countries on the package.
It's pretty much the same for most power tool brands

[Patty Hann]

I would also prefer to spend my money on American made products, unfortunately, there is often little to no choice as you say. There are also budgetary concerns that always need to be considered. The COO listings (properly displayed) would help the discriminating consumer.
I have a shop full of tools from probably every country that makes tools, they all have their place.

I did a quick gogle search for "where are Milwaukee tools made"
Milwaukee tools today are manufactured globally in China, Germany, Mexico, the United States , and Vietnam
and
DeWalt, Mexico, Brazil, the United Kingdom, and China.
Makita, Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, Romania, the United Kingdom, Germany, United Arab Emirates, Thailand, Canada, and the United States

I don't remember ever seeing these countries on the package.
It's pretty much the same for most power tool brands

I've noticed that with some of the small hand-held power tools, the country of manufacture is model dependent.
At the time I bought my Craftsman ROS they were made in Mexico, along with all the Dewalt model (both owned by Stanley) .
I was told the Craftsman and Dewalt ROSs are identical, with the exception of a variable speed control on the DeWalt, which probably accounts for the Dewalt price being about half again as much as the Craftsman.
From reading and watching YT I think that is right ...same guts different color.

Anyway, my question of COO is more aimed at the tools/parts like chisels, bits , clamps, handplanes, etc.