How to setup a jointer on questionable concrete?

[Jonathan Jung]

What are good methods for setting up a jointer? Where I've placed my jointer works well for shop flow, and up until yesterday it used to be about 1ft over such that one pedestal was over the joint of concrete. It seemed to slowly shift/settle because every several months I've had to realign the beds. So I moved it to where it is in these photos, but then it had such wobble due to non-flat concrete, I had to shim it. I'm wondering what options I have to stabilize it, or am I chasing a ghost due to the movement of concrete? Where is now, should it be ok?

I'm seeing the benefits of the 3-legged Porter machines.

511989
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[Richard Coers]

You can always buy floor leveling compound at the box store.

[Michael Burnside]

Is the concrete moving or are the wood shims absorbing moisture from the concrete and changing form? Personally I would use composite/metal shims for starters and reassess if you see a problem again.

[Mel Fulks]

Metal shims , not wood, Maybe some epoxy to make sure they don’t vibrate out . Seen old info saying oil bath machines should be level.

[Jim Becker]

I'm with Mel. Metal shims. But...those old machines were also commonly bolted down, so drill the floor ant put in some anchors to insure that the machine cannot move from use or vibration.

[Mark Hennebury]

Rubber pads.

[Michael Burnside]

I'm with Mel. Metal shims. But...those old machines were also commonly bolted down, so drill the floor ant put in some anchors to insure that the machine cannot move from use or vibration.

Composite shims are rated at 10k+ LBS and I think would be fine. That said, bolting down is a very good idea. You make a good point about vibration.

[Phillip Mitchell]

What about the heavy duty, threaded machine leveling feet you can get from places like McMaster Carr?

I have the same jointer (12” / 166BD) and have dealt with this to some degree but am currently using composite shims on top of concrete slab. Never really moved the machine out of its current location since it arrived.

If you care to go down a huge rabbit hole, spend a bit of time on OWWM.org reading the various theories and musings of different folks around the Oliver 166 base design and how “easy” it is to get the base slightly twisted due to an uneven floor and how that can affect everything above in pesky ways. I have not had to go to extreme lengths to plane/level out my jointer base and am thankful, but I can see how it would compound and make bed adjustments tricky and unreliable if the base were somehow twisted.

[Andrew Hughes]

I leveled my 166 and used a machinist level to remove twist out of the sashes the tables sit on.
It’s written in the manual.
Fortunately my machine came with the leveling bolts. My concrete slab has the roots from a live oak tree underneath so I have a very wonky shop floor.
Something I found with my 166 is the out feed table had a twist. The inclines are not able to completely able to take it out so had to shim part of the incline. I noticed the weight of the fence would tilt and move the plane of the outfeed enough to cause edging problems.
Following Oliver’s set procedures for setting up really helped with vibration too.
The leveling bolts look like this.
Good Luck

[Jonathan Jung]

Andrew, that's very helpful. The hole's in mine aren't threaded, are yours? Any idea what I could use, short of tapping them?

The issue I'm having is unrelated to vibration or movement of the jointer. My question is about settling of concrete, ease of leveling the jointer, and keeping it level.

The wood shims were just added yesterday in a quick effort to get the machine running.

[Warren Lake]

Patrick that used to be here did some ubber good restorations. He had high quality levelling feet. Ive had them on one machine before but height enters into it. I have a 20 inch jointer set in place but the floor in that room is horrible to match other machines and more so cause of my set up the jointer has had to come up too high to be comfortable to use so ill just put some ply down and raise me up and be better than being on concrete. I likely have a photo of the feet patrick used and each machine will be different we all need a comfortable working height and part depends on our height.

[Mike Cutler]

Buy two sheets pf stall mat at tractor supply. Shim underneath and use the 3/4" , 100lb., to reduce the vibration. and level out the weight footprint on the floor.
You probably won't need the shims, depending om the weight of that jointer. I use these underneath my car lift, on uneven concrete surfaces, and it works for up to 5000lbs.

[Andrew Hughes]

Andrew, that's very helpful. The hole's in mine aren't threaded, are yours? Any idea what I could use, short of tapping them?

The issue I'm having is unrelated to vibration or movement of the jointer. My question is about settling of concrete, ease of leveling the jointer, and keeping it level.

The wood shims were just added yesterday in a quick effort to get the machine running.

The holes are threaded in my machine.
Good Luck

[Bradley Gray]

I have an old fay and eagan jointer. Every few months it needs tweaking, which I attribute to dropping heavy s--t on the infeed. Get some rubber pads like Marc Hennebury says - he is an expert, or just fool with your shims every so often. expecting to set your jointer up and be done is a little like marking your guitar tuners where they are in tune.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I don't know if I'd say it's a given that you should be having to fuss with jointer adjustments on a semi regular schedule, particularly on that model.

I spent a long afternoon ~5 years ago really dialing my 166 in after moving it into my shop and have not had to touch it in that way since. That has included jointing lots of heavy wood over that time (think timber frame components.)

Now if the concrete is actually shifting over the seasons (and that is generally not something you can control very well...) then that changes things and is where a setup like the heavy duty leveling feet and a machinist level come into play and start to pay for themselves. Just my opinion, of course.

[Warren Lake]

scm stuff I have never touched and worked fine. Difficult job one time quarter sawn sapele drove me nuts went over the jointer blaming that got it dialed in to .0005 or some crazy number and still the same. Wasnt used to the wood and it didnt tension release the same as other stuff. Nice that the jointer was set very accurate. Other one never touched in its lifetime. Will have to do the griggio for sure as its out. Its one of those parrallelagram things not in my other machines.

[Bill Dufour]

Look up how to bolt down a metal working lathe. For a less precision tool like a jointer I would bolt it down with drop anchors at each corner. Use jacking bolts onto metal plates to spread the load over the concrete. Some use hocky pucks. Once it is level tighten the anchor bolts. You have two holes at each corner? I would not bother grouting it down once leveled. Sounds like the concrete is not good enough to be stable.
If you have to get a piece of 1/2 steel plate that spans all four bolt holes and lay it on down under the jointer. Try not to stub your toes on it.
BilL D

[Wes Grass]

I have this problem as well. Saw/shaper doesn't seem to care, but the J/P is another matter. Plan is hydraulic self leveling feet on the front ... the 'mobility' wheels on the back. Another project ... a 'labor of love'?

'Bolting' a machine down.... great idea if you've got a stable foundation ...

But anything less than 8" of concrete on 'expansive soil' ... IMO... but I'm a 'machinist' ... so I generally think 'worst case.

But when I move my 741 ... and it 'rocks' ... and not in a good way ...

[Warren Lake]

thanks for mentioning hockey pucks was once collecting them they feel nice under a machine. Past saved guys on you tube turning them into adjust able feet, again machine height depends I dont want the sliding table higher it already has more reach than the cabinet saws.

[Jonathan Jung]

Buy two sheets pf stall mat at tractor supply. Shim underneath and use the 3/4" , 100lb., to reduce the vibration. and level out the weight footprint on the floor.
You probably won't need the shims, depending om the weight of that jointer. I use these underneath my car lift, on uneven concrete surfaces, and it works for up to 5000lbs.

Like this one? 3/4" thick 4'x6' rubber 94lbs
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/4-ft-x-6-ft-x-3-4-in-thick-rubber-stall-mat

Are you recommending shimming underneath the pad or between pad and machine?

The jointer is 2,200lbs

[Jonathan Jung]

I have an old fay and eagan jointer. Every few months it needs tweaking, which I attribute to dropping heavy s--t on the infeed. Get some rubber pads like Marc Hennebury says - he is an expert, or just fool with your shims every so often. expecting to set your jointer up and be done is a little like marking your guitar tuners where they are in tune.

Like the pads I just linked to?

I think that these jointers shouldn't need regular setup, given how well they're built and that I don't move it around or abuse it.

[Jonathan Jung]

I don't know if I'd say it's a given that you should be having to fuss with jointer adjustments on a semi regular schedule, particularly on that model.

I spent a long afternoon ~5 years ago really dialing my 166 in after moving it into my shop and have not had to touch it in that way since. That has included jointing lots of heavy wood over that time (think timber frame components.)

Now if the concrete is actually shifting over the seasons (and that is generally not something you can control very well...) then that changes things and is where a setup like the heavy duty leveling feet and a machinist level come into play and start to pay for themselves. Just my opinion, of course.

I agree, a machine like this shouldn't need regular fiddling, unlike my Grizzly which did.

I hadn't thought about the concrete shifting with the seasons. I suppose it could, although I do keep the shop heated in winter.

[Jonathan Jung]

Look up how to bolt down a metal working lathe. For a less precision tool like a jointer I would bolt it down with drop anchors at each corner. Use jacking bolts onto metal plates to spread the load over the concrete. Some use hocky pucks. Once it is level tighten the anchor bolts. You have two holes at each corner? I would not bother grouting it down once leveled. Sounds like the concrete is not good enough to be stable.
If you have to get a piece of 1/2 steel plate that spans all four bolt holes and lay it on down under the jointer. Try not to stub your toes on it.
BilL D

So far I like the ideas of hockey pucks and levelling bolts, purpose-built levelling feet, or the rubber stall mats.

I don't want to do anything permanent into the floor since I'm hoping to move the shop within a year.

[Holmes Anderson]

Buy two sheets pf stall mat at tractor supply. Shim underneath and use the 3/4" , 100lb., to reduce the vibration. and level out the weight footprint on the floor.
You probably won't need the shims, depending om the weight of that jointer. I use these underneath my car lift, on uneven concrete surfaces, and it works for up to 5000lbs.

Has anyone used stall mats under woodworking machines with good results? I tried using the interlocking mats under a lathe and the mats seemed to allow the lathe to rock slightly. Not sure if the rubber wasn't hard enough or if the airspace between the dimples on the underside of the mat created the problem. Solid high density rubber worked better for me. The mats are great to stand on though. Not so great if they get water underneath, otherwise I'd cover the floor with them.

[Jim Becker]

True stall mats are pretty dense (and heavy), Holmes. They are far closer to the "hockey puck" than regular anti-fatigue mats in that respect.

[Mike Cutler]

Like this one? 3/4" thick 4'x6' rubber 94lbs
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/4-ft-x-6-ft-x-3-4-in-thick-rubber-stall-mat

Are you recommending shimming underneath the pad or between pad and machine?

The jointer is 2,200lbs

Jonathan

Either way would work, But I would shim under that mat, unless it's very spot specific.
My mats are smooth on top. No dimples. The dimpled one I've seen are only 1/2" thick???
Unless your concrete is really not level at all, the rubber pad will compress in areas that are out of plane with the jointer base.
My garage floor is a 6" thick pour, and not even at all. It's actually got a biscuit crown to the entire surface. I put my Ranger Quick Jacks on a stall mat and you can see that some areas compress into the mat more than others. My mini Coopers at 2700lbs. The Tacoma is 4000lbs. and my Denali is 5500 lbs.
I also have an 850lb. commercial washer through bolted to the floor, using drop in anchors, through a stall mat. That washer used to hit the spin cycle and vibrate the entire garage structure. With the mat in between it and the concrete floor, other than hearing the motor spin, you don't know it's running.
The worse than can happen is that you end up with a vibration damping pad. I can guarantee that your jointer cannot stress that mat, more than a 1200lb. horse. ;)

[Bill Dufour]

Drop anchors in concrete are easy enough to hide when you move. Just install them in a 1/2" hole a little below flush and use 3/8 All thread. When done unthread the rods and fill the hole with a little cement. If you are ambitious pound them down as far as they will go before filling. Make sure the hole does not go so deep that it goes below the concrete slab.
Cheapskates , like me, have been known to set the all thread in wet cement or epoxy instead of using anchors. Then then the all thread will have to be cut off flush with an angle grinder.
BilLD

[mike stenson]

True stall mats are pretty dense (and heavy), Holmes. They are far closer to the "hockey puck" than regular anti-fatigue mats in that respect.

All mine also have dimples on the bottom, so water drains and evaporates. I have my benches on them, not my machinery, but even the one with a tool chest will slide around and doesn't leave dimples.