Anyone have an auto shutoff leak detector system?

[dennis thompson]

I am thinking about having an automated leak detector and shut off system installed ( not by me, I don’t do plumbing) so that ,if I’m away and a plumbing leak occurs, the water will quickly be shut off to whole house.
Can anyone recommend a system they’ve successfully used?
Thanks

[John Lanciani]

Do you have a well or municipal water? answers will be different accordingly.

https://www.skillingsandsons.com/water-shutoff/

I use the RS for my well pump

[Jim Becker]

Had it on the washer at the old property, but not whole house. I agree with John in that due to pressure differences, the solution for public water may be different than for an on-site well setup.

[Dan Barber]

Interesting, I'd like to hear more about the rational that well water and municipal water would have differing solutions. In my experience a shut off valve is a shut off valve, as long as it's rated for the systems pressure it shouldn't care where the water is coming from.

OP, perhaps one of the better known systems is Moen Flo Smart. It is app controlled and they offer insurance against water damage if you are interested in that. One of my business partners has had one for 5 years, no problems that he's experienced, but no shut off events either.

[Jim Becker]

Operative word is "may", Dan. Some solutions may not be suitable for public pressure/sizing. For anything like this, checking the specifications is important.

[Dan Barber]

Jim, I will acknowledge the "may" part. I know when I was researching these devices, they all specified to install the valves after the water meter, the main shutoff, and any pressure reducing devices. Also they specified the same for well supplies, the shut off would therefore see similar pressure in both applications. The Moen device for instance is rated at 175 PSI, far more than any municipal or well supply. Most all I had researched were rated at 125 PSI minimum.

[John Lanciani]

Interesting, I'd like to hear more about the rational that well water and municipal water would have differing solutions. In my experience a shut off valve is a shut off valve, as long as it's rated for the systems pressure it shouldn't care where the water is coming from.



The system for my well shuts off the electric supply to the pump, the system for municipal water uses a valve to shut off the water.

ETA; the nice thing about shutting off the pump is that no matter where the leak is it gets mitigated (and saves the pump). With a valve, if the leak is on the supply side of the valve it is useless.

[Dan Barber]

The system for my well shuts off the electric supply to the pump, the system for municipal water uses a valve to shut off the water.

Interesting John, shutting off power to pump approach would not have worked on my last house with a well. I had a 10,000 gallon above ground storage tank that would require a valve in-line to prevent the head pressure in the tank from flooding the house.

[Bill Howatt]

Even the amount of water in a well's pressurized bladder tank could be a disaster on a fancy floor or elsewhere and shutting off the pump does nothing to stop this.
Also, you might consider an electrical shut-off for a hot water tank that is triggered at the same time so elements aren't running out of the water - don't know about gas water heaters.

[John Lanciani]

Even the amount of water in a well's pressurized bladder tank could be a disaster on a fancy floor or elsewhere and shutting off the pump does nothing to stop this.
Also, you might consider an electrical shut-off for a hot water tank that is triggered at the same time so elements aren't running out of the water - don't know about gas water heaters.

My pressure tank is only 4 gallons (I have a constant pressure system that doesn't use a large tank) and its in the basement at that. Water heater is solar with a boiler zone as a backup, and the only way for it to ever be empty is if someone purposely drained it. Worst case for me would be +/- 5 gallons of water on the concrete floor, far better than if the pump ran at 10gpm for however many hours...

If you had municipal water and the leak was on the line side of a shutoff valve (failed meter maybe) you're looking at 20-40 GPM until it gets shut off at the curb.

Dan's large storage tank is acting more like a municipal gravity system than a well, I'd definitely be looking for a solution outside of the house at the tank if it were me.

[Stan Calow]

I have the Flo by Moen system for about a year. I got it after my neighbor had a total disaster in his house from an overnight leak in an upstairs bathroom.

It's great peace of mind. If I am away from home, I get a text and a phone call telling me an unusual high usage has been occurring, and I can verify it's OK or it will shut off automatically. It is self-learning system, so it knows if you are having a high flow at a time of day/week that is not normal, like a long shower or lawn sprinkler. Also signals high pressure events. It sends a weekly report telling me of total water usage. It's sensitive enough that during humidifier season (currently) it sends a note saying possible small leak detected overnight, which I ignore once I figured out it was the humidifier.

It cost me about $1200 to have it installed, which included a new pressure regulating valve.

[Bill Howatt]

... Worst case for me would be +/- 5 gallons of water on the concrete floor, far better than if the pump ran at 10gpm for however many hours...
...
I agree 5 gallons is better than a strong flow but there is nothing guaranteeing the leak will be onto the concrete floor. 5 gallons on a hardwood floor is enough to destroy it.

[Bill Dufour]

I have a Watts flow sensor valve on my washing machine supply. Problem is it shuts off halfway through the cycle so I by passed it. It is suposed to sense the machine running and turn on the supply valves then shut them down when the machine stops. It works to fill then shuts down during the spin and soak cycle and will not come on again that day. They are known for sensor failures.
BilL D.

[Bill Dufour]

At the lab we had seismic shutoffs on the gas supplies. They are a simple pendulum or ball that moves and shuts down. They worked during a minor quake 4.5? Took almost a week for maintenance to locate and reset them all. My building got gas back on in under a few hours since it was highest priority due to having live animals that have to be kept at a constant temperture.
Bill D

[dennis thompson]

We seem to be wandering away from my question:)

[Jim Becker]

It did wander, Dennis, because it's potentially material to the solution, although not the only factor. Do you have public or private water? It seems there may be some differences based on some commments.

[dennis thompson]

It did wander, Dennis, because it's potentially material to the solution, although not the only factor. Do you have public or private water? It seems there may be some differences based on some commments.

I have city water

[George Yetka]

Im not sure that they how useful they are. A sensor on the floor by the washing machine may be the only valid way to trigger them. A sudden loss of pressure upstream is how they are triggered if I run my hose or washing machine and that doesnt stop it then that could be pouring into the wall theoretically. Most leaks i've come across are pinholes that cause damage over years or frozen/cracked lines thawing. A buddy just lost his kitchen to an undersink drip that ate the subfloor and joists all the way up to the flooring and cabinets. It wasnt noticed until the cabinet started showing mold.

It is a good idea to turn off water when you are away from the house

[Dan Barber]

That is one of the benefits of the sensor systems, you can turn off the water via an app on your phone. That way if you forget to turn off the water manually before you went on vacation, you can do it remotely if you desire. Some of the flow sensors are pretty sophisticated in their algorithms for detecting even small leaks. I think some will even offer insurance against water damage. I've had significant water damage twice due to burst toilet supply lines. Finally traced to excessive pressure. I am considering one of the systems for our new house.

[Bill Dufour]

If you do install one I would add a pressure regulator upstream since the plumbing is being moved around already.
Bill D

[Bill George]

I do what George does… gone from the house more than one day, water turned off.

[Bill Howatt]

If we are going away for the whole day or more, then the water is turned off. Ball valve makes it easy. I also have audio alarms on the floor by the washing machine, water heater and the water system (bladder tank, Culligan system). None of it is perfect since you have to be there to hear the alarms and take action and a failure when water is not shut-off for a 2 hour shopping trip could dump enough to make a big, expensive mess.
Neighbor has had 2 pin-hole leaks due to old, poor copper pipe. I was totally amazed at how much water comes out a pin-hole in a few hours.
Where I live, most insurance companies now insist on replacing the water heater every 10 years regardless of what you think. My friend who always replaced his sacrificial anode at regular intervals tried arguing with them - to no avail.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Dennis, I have a FloLogic recently installed in a vacation home. The unit is installed into the plumbing as close to the entrance as possible, the unit detects the volume of water that is flowing into the home, if the unit detects too great a volume, it closes off the supply of water.

I know it’s a small sample size (two months), so far the unit has not been more of a nuisance than a help.

[Matt Schroeder]

I just had a Moen installed last weekend. Still figuring it all out. There is currently a known problem (according to Moen) with the real time monitoring on the app (flow doesn't always show properly on the app while being properly monitored by the device) but the unit is supposedly doing what it is supposed to behind the scenes even if the app is sometimes incorrect. Hopefully that glitch will be figured out soon. In addition to the flow monitoring by the valve you can add water detectors near likely leak points (laundry room, or where the water line enters the house before the valve) that sync with the app and can also control the valve (doesn't help if something is upstream of the valve, but would if you wanted extra protection downstream and either way you get immediate notification of an alarm). During set up it asks about irrigation and if you have a whole house humidifier to help it learn what normal use should look like (a whole house trickle humidifier looks a lot like an intermittent leak...). I have already learned that my daughter uses twice as much water for a shower than I do. I ordered my valve from Crutchfield, it came in one day and was the best price I could find at the time; my plumber was happy to let me source the valve for him to install.

I also considered the flowlogic but decided to try the cheaper Moen one first, and my plumber said he felt good about the Moen as well from previoous installs. He mounted it with quick disconnects and appropriate valves so I can isolate and bypass the Moen if it needs to be removed for service or replacement in the future. My insurance company (Erie) does not offer a discount for having the valve.

[Ron Citerone]

I do what George does… gone from the house more than one day, water turned off.
I have city water and a gas water heater. Does anyone know what happens if I turn the water off and the water heater springs a leak?

[Bill Howatt]

No direct experience with that configuration but my experience is that a water heater will develop a very slow leak first as it rusts through. Without the applied city water pressure the leak would be very, very little. This is where one of those inexpensive audio alarms would be a good thing.
The last time I had a hot water heater leak there was a warning given that I didn't pay attention to - there was a "hot musty" smell caused by the initial leaking before it became obvious on the basement floor a couple of weeks or so later. I don't have a plastic pan under it but if my heater was in or above a finished level I certainly would.

[George Yetka]

I have city water and a gas water heater. Does anyone know what happens if I turn the water off and the water heater springs a leak?

Your house and water tank drain to the level of the leak. With any luck you get vacuum bound and some of the water stays in the house piping

[Robert LaPlaca]

I have city water and a gas water heater. Does anyone know what happens if I turn the water off and the water heater springs a leak?

I believe you will windup with 40+ gallons (assuming you have a 40 hot water heater) leak. Even that is a whole lot better than 100’s or 1000’s of gallons of water, without the shutoff device..

[Ron Citerone]

I believe you will windup with 40+ gallons (assuming you have a 40 hot water heater) leak. Even that is a whole lot better than 100’s or 1000’s of gallons of water, without the shutoff device..

Thanks. I was wondering more about a the natural gas part. Would the water heater shut down or would a gas shutoff be needed?

[Robert LaPlaca]

Wow that’s an interesting question Ron, not so sure either a NG or electric hot water heater has a safety to know the water tank is low or empty..A question for a plumber

[Bill Howatt]

Don't know about the others but I've been told the regular electric water heater does not and the elements should be always covered. From what I see the thermostat mounts on the outside of the tank and there is nothing inside other than the heater. Now, a gas/oil one may be more like a boiler system and boiler systems do have low water monitors.

[Jerome Stanek]

when I leave for any exteneded time I shut the water off. When I was on my own water system I would turn the breaker off

[Kev Williams]

For a few months, when in the basement bathroom, I could hear a slight tinkling of water from upstairs in the plastic sewer line which was right next to the john... I finally determined the valve in our bedroom bathroom tank wasn't shutting totally off. Finally replaced it one day, and only a few days later I got a letter in the mail from the City, alerting me to the fact that they have leak-detectors on their water meters, which detected a very slow but steady constant flow of water. I thought that was pretty cool, that the water dept. would know about it even if I didnt--