Chasing my tail on a long edge joint

[Tony Wilkins]

Still working on the 7’ table top. Planing the edges of the last panel to put on the edge. Both edges seem plat along their length to my long veritas straight edge and square side to side with my small square. When I put them together there is a gap on both sides full length that doesn’t want to close up. I even tried match planing them to no avail. Thoughts?

511246

[steven c newman]

Most of the times I get a gaposis...I check right at the ends...right where the jointer plane starts it's cuts...

[Rafael Herrera]

Does the top panel pivot at the middle?

I'd take a smoother with a straight edge and set very fine and I'd take a shaving in the middle and test.

[Tony Wilkins]

Most of the times I get a gaposis...I check right at the ends...right where the jointer plane starts it's cuts...
First places I checked, one end is the largest gap, the other consistent with the rest.

[Tony Wilkins]

Does the top panel pivot at the middle?

I'd take a smoother with a straight edge and set very fine and I'd take a shaving in the middle and test.
Didn’t try that with the two panels together. They’re too heavy and long for me alone to do that. If I get help I might be able to try that. My 50” straightedge doesn’t pivot in either board anywhere.

[Daniel Culotta]

Are the gaps the same on both faces? Sometimes that can help chase down slightly out-of-square spots if the joint is slightly open on one face but closed on the other side. If you think it's an issue with flatness along the length, sometimes it's best to start over by making a distinct low spot in the middle (so you know the ends are high) and then taking the ends down so you're just touching the middle again with the plane. You might even leave a bit of a spring in the joint if it pulls together nicely.

And if all else fails, find a friend with a nice jointer :) Long edge joints can be tough.

[Tony Wilkins]

Are the gaps the same on both faces? Sometimes that can help chase down slightly out-of-square spots if the joint is slightly open on one face but closed on the other side. If you think it's an issue with flatness along the length, sometimes it's best to start over by making a distinct low spot in the middle (so you know the ends are high) and then taking the ends down so you're just touching the middle again with the plane. You might even leave a bit of a spring in the joint if it pulls together nicely.

And if all else fails, find a friend with a nice jointer :) Long edge joints can be tough.
unfortunately it is both sides. I thought if I did the match plane thing I might overcome it if it was a side to side straightness issue but not so far.

[Jim Koepke]

unfortunately it is both sides. I thought if I did the match plane thing I might overcome it if it was a side to side straightness issue but not so far.

I am confused Tony, my impression is your stock is much thicker than an inch.


Match planing is a method whereby two thin boards (typically less than 1″ thick each) are placed face-to-face and their mating edges are planed simultaneously.

This method sounds great in theory. One problem is if there is a bump or dip anywhere along the plane's path, the error will be doubled on the finished pieces.

Where light shows through a joint are low spots. These do not need any further planing.

Where no light shows through is a high spot. Mark these areas and using a smoother set fine bring these areas down. Do not plane past the bump.

jtk

[Tom Trees]

You could cheat by rubbing the boards together to burnish the high spots,
you could get a 2 meter fairly nice dual milled spirit level, and get some artist graphite sticks, like large allenkeys, one will last years,
to highlight the technique further.
Or make a suitable rigid enough straight edge (x2 for the "three plate method", to double the error, one can get great accuracy doing so)
and when done with that, get an old style long reach angle poise lamp with at least 7.5" shade, Ikea do them for cheap, "Tertial" type, on my side of the pond,
I've got a sliding block what rides on the back of the bench, to mount it to, what's a much less fancy thing than Cosmans, but works the same.
These lamps will fight you if you try to mount them higher, and they need be easily movable to get along with them,
but nothing compares to them IMO.

Tom

[Tony Wilkins]

I am confused Tony, my impression is your stock is much thicker than an inch.



This method sounds great in theory. One problem is if there is a bump or dip anywhere along the plane's path, the error will be doubled on the finished pieces.

Where light shows through a joint are low spots. These do not need any further planing.

Where no light shows through is a high spot. Mark these areas and using a smoother set fine bring these areas down. Do not plane past the bump.

jtk

The boards are just over an inch each. The two boards together are just about the most a #7 can handle. Concerning light, my problem is that I can’t find a place where there isn’t light coming through. I know there must be a high spot somewhere because I didn’t get the antigravity lumber. I might have to go back and create a definite hollow as suggested earlier unless y’all can suggest something different. Re match planing: hadn’t been doing it but tried it to see if corrected an out of kilter plane side to side. The boards are high enough in the bench that it’s been throwing off my natural planing square.

[Jim Koepke]

The boards are just over an inch each. The two boards together are just about the most a #7 can handle. Concerning light, my problem is that I can’t find a place where there isn’t light coming through.

Is your blade cambered?

That is one possible way to allow light through over the full length.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

Is your blade cambered?

That is one possible way to allow light through over the full length.

jtk
My blade is cambered. I have a straight blade for my 5 1/2 and keep my BU jack straight; I could use one of these to see if it fixes it?

[Rafael Herrera]

The boards are just over an inch each. The two boards together are just about the most a #7 can handle. Concerning light, my problem is that I can’t find a place where there isn’t light coming through. I know there must be a high spot somewhere because I didn’t get the antigravity lumber. I might have to go back and create a definite hollow as suggested earlier unless y’all can suggest something different. Re match planing: hadn’t been doing it but tried it to see if corrected an out of kilter plane side to side. The boards are high enough in the bench that it’s been throwing off my natural planing square.

When you say that there is a gap at each end, do you see a gap for the width of the board or a gap either the front or back of the joint (that is, the edge is not square)?

If the answer is yes to the 1st question, then you're shaving a bit much as you start and end the plane pass. In other words, you have a convex edge. You could try to start the plane one or two inches into the board edge and stop cutting one or two inches before the end of the edge.

If you're boards are 1" each and your #7 is cambered, I wouldn't plane them together. Is it a minuscule camber or a significant one?

Even though it may be difficult to mount one board on top of the other, that's the best way to check and fit the joint. Mount one of the boards on the vise so the edge is at or above the level of your bench top, clear the bench top and lay the other board there. Flipping it an placing it over the other board should be a little easier.

[Tony Wilkins]

When you say that there is a gap at each end, do you see a gap for the width of the board or a gap either the front or back of the joint (that is, the edge is not square)?

If the answer is yes to the 1st question, then you're shaving a bit much as you start and end the plane pass. In other words, you have a convex edge. You could try to start the plane one or two inches into the board edge and stop cutting one or two inches before the end of the edge.

If you're boards are 1" each and your #7 is cambered, I wouldn't plane them together. Is it a minuscule camber or a significant one?

Even though it may be difficult to mount one board on top of the other, that's the best way to check and fit the joint. Mount one of the boards on the vise so the edge is at or above the level of your bench top, clear the bench top and lay the other board there. Flipping it a placing it over the other board should be a little easier.
It’s strange, the gap seems consistent from one end to the other and on both sides. It’s a fairly minuscule camber but not none. I only tried match planing because I couldn’t figure anything else out. The way you described testing fit is the way I’ve been doing it. Wears me out but the only way to do it that I’ve found.

[Brian Hale]

It's hard to tell but are the boards surfaced both sides to the same thickness

[Tony Wilkins]

It's hard to tell but are the boards surfaced both sides to the same thickness
No, they aren’t and there are varying degrees of bow.

[Brian Hale]

I was working on this 58" walnut table top until another "urgent" project popped up. As i was working on each joint i'd rub chalk along the edges, stand them up as you are, and rub the 2 pieces left to right a couple inches. This shows where the high spots are. Not sure if that would help 511261

[Tony Wilkins]

I was working on this 58" walnut table top until another "urgent" project popped up. As i was working on each joint i'd rub chalk along the edges, stand them up as you are, and rub the 2 pieces left to right a couple inches. This shows where the high spots are. Not sure if that would help 511261

I’ll try that.

[Mel Fulks]

Do you mean a small gap in the middle?

[Tony Wilkins]

Do you mean a small gap in the middle?
No, it doesn’t seem to join anywhere. I know there must be a high spot somewhere but I can’t find it. There is light all the way around and both sides.

[Rafael Herrera]

When you mount one board on top of the other, carefully, you can try to pivot the top board. It will pivot around the high point. Push the top board side to side from each end.

It is when the board doesn't pivot or pivots around the other end when you have a good match.

There's a video. Let me find it.

[Rafael Herrera]

No dice, all the videos in the channel I had in mind have been taken down. I can make a quick one later if you want. I don't have 7' boards, your project is more difficult.

[Tony Wilkins]

I know what you mean. I may have to try that when I have two helpers. I can’t manage that in my own and I’m doubtful that I could do one end.

[George Waldner]

If the faces of the boards are not flat it will be almost impossible to get a good fit whether by hand or powered jointer.

[Tony Wilkins]

If the faces of the boards are not flat it will be almost impossible to get a good fit whether by hand or powered jointer.
No. I’ve managed 5 other joints in this top so far.

[Warren Mickley]

If the faces of the boards are not flat it will be almost impossible to get a good fit whether by hand or powered jointer.

In hand work it is much more efficient to join the boards before flattening the faces. We use straight edge and winding sticks to ensure that the boards mate well and only flatten the face afterwards. This saves having to flatten the faces of each individual board, and then the glued up board.

Tony: You need to be able to identify they high spots and plane only those spots (not the whole length) until until there are no gaps. Set the plane very fine.

[Tony Wilkins]

In hand work it is much more efficient to join the boards before flattening the faces. We use straight edge and winding sticks to ensure that the boards mate well and only flatten the face afterwards. This saves having to flatten the faces of each individual board, and then the glued up board.

Tony: You need to be able to identify the high spots and plane only those spots (not the whole length) until until there are no gaps. Set the plane very fine.
Been trying to find the high spots to no avail. Going to try (maybe tomorrow) the chalk and rub suggestion earlier in the thread.

[Chris Parks]

Supporting both boards high enough to run a light under the join might help, I have never had the need but it may work to find the high spots(s).

[steven c newman]

Question: does the gap got all the way through...or just one face? maybe the high spots are around in back? So that from where the OP is standing, it would LOOK like a gap all the way along the boards...?

[Tony Wilkins]

Question: does the gap got all the way through...or just one face? maybe the high spots are around in back? So that from where the OP is standing, it would LOOK like a gap all the way along the boards...?
As far as I can tell, all the way around. I’ve looked from both sides and there’s a gap on both.

[Rafael Herrera]

Can you draw or take a picture of what you have now? I'm confused by what kind of gap you have. I thought you only had gaps at each end of the board and full contact for most of the length of the boards.

Are your edges rounded across their width?

[Tony Wilkins]

Can you draw or take a picture of what you have now? I'm confused by what kind of gap you have. I thought you only had gaps at each end of the board and full contact for most of the length of the boards.

Are your edges rounded across their width?
I’ll try to get a picture but here’s the best I have now…
511282

I’ve checked both boards at several points with a square across and it seems square, not rounded. I’ve been looking for a high spot but I can’t see one from either direction. I know it has to be there - somewhere.

[Rafael Herrera]

Do you mean that you have a gap along the length of the joint? did you verify that by trying to insert a piece of paper or a feeler gauge?

Since your faces are rough, there'll be a step where the edges meet, possibly giving an impression of a gap.

Are the edges in wind? If both edges are not in wind, they'll separate at some points along their length when put together. It's not quite like having a high point.

511283

[Tony Wilkins]

Do you mean that you have a gap along the length of the joint? did you verify that by trying to insert a piece of paper or a feeler gauge?

Since your faces are rough, there'll be a step where the edges meet, possibly giving an impression of a gap.

Are the edges in wind? If both edges are not in wind, they'll separate at some points along their length when put together. It's not quite like having a high point.

511283

I’ll add checking wind to the things to try.

[Tom Trees]

No, they aren’t and there are varying degrees of bow.


I’ll try to get a picture but here’s the best I have now…

I’ve checked both boards at several points with a square across and it seems square, not rounded

I wouldn't touch a square for this.
Is the bench/planing beam as long as the work?
If the surface is true, then all you need do is see how it lays on the bench, i.e Charlesworth's techniques, hinging or pivoting, rocking, etc
On something thin like laminations for a decently long benchtop, (maximum length capacity, if you will..)
then I like the timber to hinge off the centre, but not pivot, whilst still some friction on the ends of the work yet,
as the material will deflect under it's own weight, and the bench has a very slight crown to it along it's length, what's something like 84" long.
Unnoticable by eye, until timbers are paired to "double the error" , so if going solely by stopped shavings, then check both against each other, from the get go, and well before going anywhere near your lines, as you might likely snipe way too much off the ends if getting used to both hinging, and the timbers characteristics over such a length,
and not with some short lengths either, but the full length of the bench.

The angle poise lamp will serve you well here
511284511285511286

Having two parallel in height lengths, so you can flip one over, should both timbers have a matching bow, then that would show a massive gap.
511287

Those lamps can be bought very very cheaply, and saves much time.
Being able to see where the high spots are is very easy, as you can project the light on either side of the timber with two fingers bringing the shade where yer lookin.
Fair enough, having a fairly clean shiny benchtop might irk some, but I consider it my surface planer bed.:D

[Rafael Herrera]

I wouldn't touch a square for this.
Is the bench/planing beam as long as the work?
If the surface is true, then all you need do is see how it lays on the bench, i.e Charlesworth's techniques, hinging or pivoting, rocking, etc
On something thin like laminations for a decently long benchtop, (maximum length capacity, if you will..)
then I like the timber to hinge off the centre, but not pivot, whilst still some friction on the ends of the work yet,
as the material will deflect under it's own weight, and the bench has a very slight crown to it along it's length, what's something like 84" long.
Unnoticable by eye, until timbers are paired to "double the error" , so if going solely by stopped shavings, then check both against each other, from the get go, and well before going anywhere near your lines, as you might likely snipe way too much off the ends if getting used to both hinging, and the timbers characteristics over such a length,
and not with some short lengths either, but the full length of the bench.

I'm sorry but I don't understand how what you are saying or how it applies in this case.

He's already laminated several boards and now he's trying to join two big boards. See his original post. He's holding the boards in front of his bench, not on top of the bench.

He needs to verify he's shot those edges properly at this point.

[Tom Trees]

Sorry I missed that bit.
Pretty much the same rules apply for joining the halves though.

If gluing, it might be worth giving the top surfaces a lick with a plane, as some cleats for alignment saves a big fight, that you may not win,
DAMHIK :o
I would have done the bottom aswell, as I left plenty of material, but the glue grabbed before I could wrangle it back to where it was.
Getting pretty cold, need to keep a feel of all that thermal mass, as it may take some time to warm up, hopefully not on the floor.
Good luck

Tom
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[Robert Hazelwood]

Well, they're touching somewhere. If you can't see where, try sliding a feeler gauge or slip of paper along the joint and see where it gets stuck.

I agree with the comment about checking for twist. Twist can cause weird issues that are hard to explain with a straightedge and square. The faces of your boards look rough still - which is fine and normal for doing this kind of work by hand. But it means you can't reliably use a square to check the edges with precision. I'd plane up a couple of winding sticks and use those to check that your edges are not twisted along their length.

Once you have corrected any twist, make sure that you can get a full-length, full-width shaving along each edge. Pay close attention to the shaving as it comes out of the plane- if there are any breaks or narrow spots in the shaving then you are not done yet. Once you get full shavings on both pieces you should be very close - you might have some small gaps at the ends that you'll need to correct by planing the middle only.

[Reed Gray]

I am wondering if this relates to the question I just posted in the 'big shooting board' post. Hand planes do not have infeed and outfeed tables. The end result, especially on longer boards, is a slight crown in the middle. After getting to the point where you take a continuous shaving along the length of the board, you then start in the middle and take passes working your way to a one final long pass. Think I saw a video about this.

robo hippy

[Robert Hazelwood]

I am wondering if this relates to the question I just posted in the 'big shooting board' post. Hand planes do not have infeed and outfeed tables. The end result, especially on longer boards, is a slight crown in the middle. After getting to the point where you take a continuous shaving along the length of the board, you then start in the middle and take passes working your way to a one final long pass. Think I saw a video about this.

robo hippy

If the sole is flat or very slightly convex you can maintain a flat surface with full length shavings, and not have to do stopped shavings. It takes practice and a lot of concentration, focusing on keeping the pressure at the toe as you enter the cut and on the heel as you exit. Otherwise the tendency is to plane more at the ends and you end up with the hump. If the sole of the plane is even slightly concave it will be difficult or impossible to avoid the hump. Better for a plane to be .005" convex than .001" concave.

It's worth practicing because when doing this kind of work you will often need to adjust the squareness of an edge that is already straight. If you create a hump while you are correcting the angle, then you have to go through the whole stopped shaving routing again.

[Warren Mickley]

I am wondering if this relates to the question I just posted in the 'big shooting board' post. Hand planes do not have infeed and outfeed tables. The end result, especially on longer boards, is a slight crown in the middle. After getting to the point where you take a continuous shaving along the length of the board, you then start in the middle and take passes working your way to a one final long pass. Think I saw a video about this.

robo hippy

No, not at all. We plane the high spots and avoid the low spots. If you start with a straight edge and develop a hump by planing, your technique is sloppy.

[John Kananis]

Seems like you're beating a dead horse here. Try this, get a fresh piece of lumber and plane that flat and true - your plane is just following a long contour at this point. Then, clamp that to the edge you need to joint. Ride the heel of your plane on the correctly joined piece and the cutter along the wavy piece. Once that edge is straight and true, you can repeat with the matching board.

[Tony Wilkins]

Hope I made some progress. Winding sticks were my first tool of choice to diagnose the problem. This revealed two things. A) there was a slight amount of twist in both boards. Nextly, there was a slight bump in the middles of each board. After planing out the twist, I used the cambered #7 to take down the middle and then went over it with the flat blade #5.5. Seemed to help. I chalked it for when I have a helper tomorrow to do the rub together bit.
511313

[Rob Luter]

I have a suggestion to offer up. My history jointing long edges is spotty. I can get them plenty straight, but keeping the edge exactly 90° to the face is tough. Keeping the edge flat (as opposed to crowned) is tough too. What I've started doing is jointing per usual to get a straight edge, then peeling off any imperfections with an edge trimming plane set for a super light cut. It assures the edge is 90° to the face and all I wind up peeling off is the high spots. It's worked surprisingly well.

Disclaimer: I've never done anything as large as you are working with.

511314

[Tony Wilkins]

I have a suggestion to offer up. My history jointing long edges is spotty. I can get them plenty straight, but keeping the edge exactly 90° to the face is tough. Keeping the edge flat (as opposed to crowned) is tough too. What I've started doing is jointing per usual to get a straight edge, then peeling off any imperfections with an edge trimming plane set for a super light cut. It assures the edge is 90° to the face and all I wind up peeling off is the high spots. It's worked surprisingly well.

Disclaimer: I've never done anything as large as you are working with.

511314

Dont have one of those. Sometimes I cheat and use the fence attached to my LV 5 1/2. I might do a final pass with that.

[Thomas McCurnin]

+1 for Beating a Dead Horse.

As much as I love the satisfaction with working with hand tools, this might be the time to contact a local woodworking shop with a long bed jointer and have them run it through for a few passes. I am unclear but I would also have both sides surfaced so they are identical, like a wide belt sander. I would probably sand this rascal before jointing it.

[Rafael Herrera]

Learning to use hand tools is beating a dead horse, in the Neanderthals forum. Much better to have lugged the boards somewhere to have them run through jointer and a planer.

What would have been left for Tony to do? Glue them together, how exciting.

[Tony Wilkins]

Learning to use hand tools is beating a dead horse, in the Neanderthals forum. Much better to have lugged the boards somewhere to have them run through jointer and a planer.

What would have been left for Tony to do? Glue them together, how exciting.
Had a snarky comment type in response to those answers but decided not to. I tried a few of the suggestions made so far and hopefully they had an effect. If not, I’ve still got a couple to try. I’d completely start over on the edges before I tried a machine.

[Jim Koepke]

What I've started doing is jointing per usual to get a straight edge, then peeling off any imperfections with an edge trimming plane set for a super light cut. It assures the edge is 90° to the face and all I wind up peeling off is the high spots. It's worked surprisingly well.

511314


Dont have one of those. Sometimes I cheat and use the fence attached to my LV 5 1/2. I might do a final pass with that.

For an edge plane (like the #95) or a plane with a fence to work properly the board's face must first be flat. If a plane is guided by undulations and variations, it will transmit them to the edge being worked.

jtk

[William Fretwell]

The first challenge is to get the jointer to produce a 90 degree edge all along the board. Check with a square as you work. After that match the boards as in your picture with a light behind the joint. Mark the dark spots with chalk. Use a smoother to fine tune the boards. The light will go out between the boards. When the boards get close just fine tune one edge only.

Just work with one joint at a time. Yes it is tedious but when you see the light going out most rewarding. When the light is out all along the board do the next joint. Those boards have no flex so you need to match all the edges and then glue them up all at once.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have a trick for checking the shape of long edges. I use a small quick clamp on the ends of one at a time if the opposite side opens up I have convex edge along the length. And that’s not good.
Before I had my very long bed jointer it wasn’t always easy to make good fitting edges. Thick glue lines were my enemy.
Good Luck

[Robert Hazelwood]

In this situation you can't reliably use a fence, and even checking with a square is not that useful. The main thing is to first plane all twist out of the edges, and to make sure each edge is flat and not convex across its width. Then when you test fit the joint, place a straightedge across the width of the panel at several places and see how well the two faces of each board align with it. You want the faces as close to co-planar as possible, meaning there are minimal gaps under the straightedge. With rough boards it won't be perfect, but getting it as close as you can will save you a lot of work planing the panel after assembly.

You can adjust the angle of one or both edges to achieve the best fit with the straightedge, but it won't necessarily be 90 degrees on either board, nor will it be a consistent angle relative to the face if you check at various spots along the length. So don't think about it like the usual edge-joining technique used for smaller pieces, where a prepared reference face exists to check the edge against. This is more like establishing the initial reference face, that happens to be an edge.

[Tony Wilkins]

In this situation you can't reliably use a fence, and even checking with a square is not that useful. The main thing is to first plane all twist out of the edges, and to make sure each edge is flat and not convex across its width. Then when you test fit the joint, place a straightedge across the width of the panel at several places and see how well the two faces of each board align with it. You want the faces as close to co-planar as possible, meaning there are minimal gaps under the straightedge. With rough boards it won't be perfect, but getting it as close as you can will save you a lot of work planing the panel after assembly.

You can adjust the angle of one or both edges to achieve the best fit with the straightedge, but it won't necessarily be 90 degrees on either board, nor will it be a consistent angle relative to the face if you check at various spots along the length. So don't think about it like the usual edge-joining technique used for smaller pieces, where a prepared reference face exists to check the edge against. This is more like establishing the initial reference face, that happens to be an edge.

Tried the fence and I should have listened to you guys. Ended up with a very high side in a couple of passes. I know what you mean about the square— now. Found my little bullet level and winding sticks to be the best solution. Ran out of energy fixing the first board. Just have to take out the high side on the second. Fortunately it’s not as bad.

[Jim Koepke]

Another good tool for checking a surface for being straight is a simple trick with a length of string.

This is an old post by Stanley Covington > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?258087 < it explains how to use a string and three small blocks of wood to check a surface for flatness.

There is an image of me using the method in this post > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?272588 < Though in my case an extremely light shaving or two were removed from the test block.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

Another good tool for checking a surface for being straight is a simple trick with a length of string.

This is an old post by Stanley Covington > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?258087 < it explains how to use a string and three small blocks of wood to check a surface for flatness.

There is an image of me using the method in this post > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?272588 < Though in my case an extremely light shaving or two were removed from the test block.

jtk
I’ve seen that.

[Mark Rainey]

Tony, I admire your persistence. On long heavy boards which are not face jointed it is a challenge to get the edges flat and out of twist. These hand tool techniques are best mastered with a journeyman present, and a helper too! Lacking that, hopefully good advice from forum members will help. I posted about my edge jointing without flat faces here (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?304737-Table-top&highlight=).

[Frank Maraschino]

I have a suggestion to offer up. My history jointing long edges is spotty. I can get them plenty straight, but keeping the edge exactly 90° to the face is tough. Keeping the edge flat (as opposed to crowned) is tough too. What I've started doing is jointing per usual to get a straight edge, then peeling off any imperfections with an edge trimming plane set for a super light cut. It assures the edge is 90° to the face and all I wind up peeling off is the high spots. It's worked surprisingly well.

Disclaimer: I've never done anything as large as you are working with.

511314

Interesting method

[steven c newman]

And, people on here were wondering WHY Stanley and others offered a fence for their Jointer planes....Hmmmm?

[Jim Koepke]

And, people on here were wondering WHY Stanley and others offered a fence for their Jointer planes....Hmmmm?

Stanley offered all kinds of items on which they felt people would spend money. This is how businesses make money.

Many wonder why anyone with experience would need a jointer fence.

Do you use one?

jtk

[steven c newman]

Can't find them around here...then again...I don't have projects quite as big as the OP's.....5' long is about as long as I seem to do....

Then again..I here that Rockwell/Delta once sold a Powered jointer plane.....and, I have one in the shop made by WEN. Saving THAT one for when I need to install the next doors in my house...so I can wake up the neighbors....

[James Pallas]

Back in 2020 I did several posts about flattening and edge jointing using string lines, winding sticks, and other tools. The string line is the most important part of it. I believe they are titled Using a string line. You may find those posts useful.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

And, people on here were wondering WHY Stanley and others offered a fence for their Jointer planes....Hmmmm?


Stanley offered all kinds of items on which they felt people would spend money. This is how businesses make money.

Many wonder why anyone with experience would need a jointer fence.

Do you use one?

jtk


Can't find them around here...then again...I don't have projects quite as big as the OP's.....5' long is about as long as I seem to do...



Did you ever think that maybe there aren't that many because people didn't find them very useful?

One problem is the face the fence rides on has to be straight and flat before working the edge. If not, any imperfections can transmit to the edge. Give it a bit more thought and you might realize if a person can get a face flat and straight, they can also likely plane the edge flat and square.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Or...MAYBE so useful that nobody wants to sell theirs? 2 sides of THAT coin. All depends on what one is trying to sell....isn't it

Then "Fence" I use on all my jointers ( and is a case of one size fits all).....fence hooks onto the side of the plane, right about at the front handle/knob. the rest of the Fence curls down, and under the side of the plane..

Fence? My Left Hand. Was used by people LONG before any fancy MADE fences were sold. Left Thumb hooks over the left side of the plane. Index and Social fingers are UNDERNEATH the sole on the left side of the plane..and ride against the face of the wood being jointed...even has "wear marks" on them from all the rubbing. 2 fingers, so I can feel IF the plane is trying to tilt along the way...the rest of the fingers? They are just trying to stay out of the way...

That Fence will fit on any of my planes, from the #3c, Type 11, up to the Stanley No. 8c...

And, since I am going WITH the grain, instead of against it, there is little danger of catching a splinter along the way.

As for the subject from the OP ( remember him?) Something strange IS going on, indeed....when one has two LARGE planks, that one can barely move around, and yet has a gap between them with no high spots making contact along the joint? Maybe, slide a thin 3 x 5 index card along that gap...I think you will soon find the Spot(s) that are causing that gap.
511447
And..
511448
There is NO gap, top board has a slight bow, and creates a shadow line...
511449
And..both boards are in this panel.

BTW: IF you are so offended by the thought of a fence on a Jointer...better go and remove the one on that electric powered one...( your Bias is showing....)

[Jim Koepke]

BTW: IF you are so offended by the thought of a fence on a Jointer...better go and remove the one on that electric powered one...( your Bias is showing....)

No offense "by the thought of a fence on a jointer" and no electric powered one in my shop from which to remove a fence.

My objection is to suggest spending money on an accessory will somehow solve the problem.


And, since I am going WITH the grain, instead of against it, there is little danger of catching a splinter along the way.

My fingers have also been used in this manner though most of the time the face they are riding on has been planed and made sure to be free of splinters.

This thread has become similar to so many sharpening threads where someone asks more experienced users for help with a problem they are having with a plane.

One "expert" will chime in about trying the Paul Sellers method with the convex bevel. Someone else will mention needing a secondary bevel. Another "expert" will instruct the knowledge seeker about using the "ruler trick." Then finally some one will insist the blade needs to be cambered.

Then after all of this is done there is still a problem. Is the problem with the Sellers method? The secondary bevel? The back bevel? The camber?

To my way of thinking it may be better to solve the problem with what the OP already has on hand instead of spending money on things that may or may not solve the problem.

jtk

[John C Cox]

Edge jointing is technique and experience more than anything else.

Do NOT "Match" plane where you clamp both sides together and then plane. The only thing this accomplishes is doubling the error by putting the "Oopsies" on both boards.

Hand planing will tend to create hollows where the work is clamped and proud areas halfway between clamps. Use this effect to your own benefit.

Plane one edge, checking often with a ground straight edge and a square. Then do the other. Then "Candle" the boards together using a light source underneath to verify the whole joint dry-fits gap free. As some have said, it's probably preferable to err with a slight gap in the center that closes with minimal clamp pressure.

Do mark the show faces of the boards, and candle with the show faces on top and in the correct planned orientation with the light underneath.

Do set your plane for nearly transparent, but full width shavings. Jointing works best when the plane is super sharp and the shavings are really thin.

So, for example, you have trued up your planned glue joint surfaces, candled, and found too much hollow in the middle. Rearrange the clamps towards the ends and work each board's jointed face, start with planing the ends preferentially, and end with a full length shaving. When doing this, pay attention to the defect size and try to split it between the boards. So say you candle and estimate a 0.020" gap. That's 0.010" per side, or about 5 thin shavings off each board to true things up and one more full length shaving so you don't have lumps where it starts and stops.

Pay attention to your clamp and hand pressure locations. It matters.

It takes a bit of practice, but you'll get it.