4 1/2 as smoother vs 5 1/2 as super smoother

[Tony Wilkins]

I have an LV custom 5 1/2 that I got to be a super smoother/panel plane/Charlesworth technique plane. A recent thread on an LV custom 4 1/2 made me wonder about the difference. What is the difference between the two in smoothing operations? How does the shorter length of the 4.5 really effect its use?

(for reference I have a 4 and a coffin smoother)

[steven c newman]

all depends on the size of the work...I have both, but they are Stanley Type 11s

[Derek Cohen]

I have an LV custom 5 1/2 that I got to be a super smoother/panel plane/Charlesworth technique plane. A recent thread on an LV custom 4 1/2 made me wonder about the difference. What is the difference between the two in smoothing operations? How does the shorter length of the 4.5 really effect its use?

(for reference I have a 4 and a coffin smoother)


Tony, since both planes are the same width, the size of the work is not the deciding factor.

It comes down to (1) how flat the workpieces are - since a longer plane needs a flatter surface to take a continuous light cut, and (2) how frequently you will use the plane - both are heavier than a #3 or #4, and become fatiguing if used throughout the day. On the other hand, used for an occasional pass, it really makes little difference ... and back to point #1.

The #5 1/2 really will suit a blended woodworker better than a largely handtool worker.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Jones 5443]

Two of my four planes are a L-N 4-1/2 and a Type 15 Stanley 5-1/2. Not exactly applicable to the question because the Type 15 5-1/2 is only 2-1/4” wide while the 4-1/2 is 2-3/8”. Factor in length and they’re different tools. Still, using the Charlesworth smoothing method of cambered iron and shaving scallops from pencil-marked faces, I usually don’t have a clear preference for one plane or the other. I do like the longer toe of the 5-1/2 sometimes, to give me a longer runway into the shaving.

The L-N feels denser, so the force seems more concentrated on the work.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what Derek posted.

Also add shorter planes can take a fine shaving over a slightly out of flat surface. We are talking about maybe three thousandths of an inch or less out of flat. The longer plane will ride above slight variations when taking a very fine shaving and leave a void in the shaving.

When working smaller areas with problematic grain it is easier to get to a smooth surface with the shorter plane.

This is where the smaller smoothers like a #3, #4 or a coffin smoother may be more advantageous.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

The 7’x37” walnut table top I have to smooth has me thinking about it, for reference.

[Tony Wilkins]

Tony, since both planes are the same width, the size of the work is not the deciding factor.

It comes down to (1) how flat the workpieces are - since a longer plane needs a flatter surface to take a continuous light cut, and (2) how frequently you will use the plane - both are heavier than a #3 or #4, and become fatiguing if used throughout the day. On the other hand, used for an occasional pass, it really makes little difference ... and back to point #1.

The #5 1/2 really will suit a blended woodworker better than a largely handtool worker.

Regards from Perth

Derek

So far I’ve used/planned to use the panel plane on presurfaced lumber. The current one is rough and it’s the first time in quite a while I’ve used it.

[steven c newman]

Have said many times....I size the plane used to the size of the work being done...I Can go with a #6c...or a No. 7c....and can even go with that #8c....Other days, it might be a #4....or a No. 4-1/2c....other times..Maybe a #3c and a No. 5-1/4....same width..just a different length. Have been known to use a No. 60-1/2, too.

The No. 5-1/2 I have, is a type 11, and is the same width as the #4-1/2, the No. 6c and the No. 7c....

Just depends on the size of the task, and how I am feeling that day.....although...an hour of pushing around a #8c is a bit of work....

[Tom Trees]

Never used a no.4 1/2 myself, I could see it being practical for someone thicknessing spruce guitar tops,
but for the back, generally something tropical or fancy, I'd question the performance compared to a no.4, being a bit much effort when one sets the cap iron closer,
That's a closer setting than my 5 1/2 has, the apex of the camber no greater than 1/32" away from the edge, whilst my smoother, around half that.....

Bearing in mind, that distance is determined by how conservative of an angle one hones on their cap, and mine being honed at 50deg is about the minimum
one can get away with, in order to make use of the cap iron.
So, by not honing it steeper than some might suggest, means the cap would need be set closer, which may work for a panel plane,
but for a smoother with no greater camber than 1/64", basically means you'll have no camber, as the cap would overshoot the corners.

Basically saying, that short and wide of a plane, looks a bit much if you want the results from the plane to be guaranteed tearout free.
Perhaps Warren might mention how much camber he can achieve, with his very steeply honed cap irons, for use in the same setting.
That'd be the only thing what might make me even consider a jumbo smoother.
511153

And a side note, the right camber being more tricky the wider the iron gets, a different ball game when setting a smoother to do above.
The only foolproof solution I found was from Weaver's suggestion
Terribly named, I'll not mislead folks, and try to describe in my own words...
but try honing corners without leaning, nor tilting the iron, with a single finger on the corner, NO leaning I said! :)
and yes I mean getting that finger in the slurry, merely placed on the exact spot where one wants to mirror the other side

It works much better than trying to focus in on a certain spot by other means.
Once again, I'm talking about a unnoticable camber to some, and if you want to see the same setting, Derek has done a much better job of photographing this,
as the last time I shown it, someone suggested the glint of the iron seen when set as such, was a nasty burr on the edge.:rolleyes:

So test out a no.4 before splashing out, should you need a smoother.
All the best
Tom

[Mark Salomon]

I have both. The 4 1/2 excels as a smoother; I use the 5 1/2 as a panel plane. I don't find them interchangeable and would give up the smoother for the panel plane.

[Jim R Edwards]

I have both, I tend to reach for the 5 1/2 more than any other plane I own. I have no scientific reason why, I just like it more than any other plane I have and its always on the bench!

[John Kananis]

My numbers 3 and 4 are my best friends. That said, the 4 1/2 is really great in some cases but I reach for maybe 1/10th the time I reach for the others. I tend to reach for the 5 1/2 after using the 6 (and before using a longer plane) or when I have to make something not so long, flat.

[Prashun Patel]

Personally, I prefer smaller "smoothing" planes. They balance better on small items, and are less demanding of a flat piece in order to do their job. A #4 is IMHO perfect. It's large enough to be fairly efficient, and long enough that any variance in flatness that it cannot see is likely not visible to me.

I think it's a necessary journey that we have to try a bunch of different planes and tools to eventually settle into what is comfortable for our hands and style of work.

My advice is (if you can afford the cost, and enjoy the process): get the 4 1/2, try it. Maintain it. Keep it or sell it. You'll then know for sure what your truth is.

I had to own and work with about 15 planes before selling 2/3 of them.

[Jim Koepke]

I think it's a necessary journey that we have to try a bunch of different planes and tools to eventually settle into what is comfortable for our hands and style of work.

My advice is (if you can afford the cost, and enjoy the process): get the 4 1/2, try it. Maintain it. Keep it or sell it. You'll then know for sure what your truth is.

I agree with this. That is why there is at least one of every size of bench plane in my shop.

Different jobs can benefit from bigger or smaller planes.

511194

The #4-1/2 was very useful on this large piece. Many other planes went over this hunk of wood, including scrub planes, jack planes, try planes and jointers.

With smaller pieces a smaller plane is called to task.

511193

This is a small piece of ebony used as a target on a winding stick.

If one is always making the same size projects it would be easy to select 3 or 4 planes to fit their work. For me, there are some projects of only a few
inches on up to shelves or cabinets that are eight feet tall.

jtk