Veneer for shelves

[Mark Gibney]

Is paper-backed walnut veneer typically thicker than the veneer face on a 4x8 sheet of walnut plywood (1/4" MDF core)?

I'll be making five floating shelves 14' - 16' long. 2" thick, with a 1" front edge (1/8" thick solid walnut) that then bevels back for 2".

I know both veneers are very thin. I'm considering using the paper-backed veneer over walnut faced 1/4" MDF.
This way I am less liable to damage the show surface while making the shelves.

So, do you know if there is a difference in the thickness?
Any preference on which method you'd use?

These shelves will be used in an office and won't be abused.

thanks, Mark

[Kevin Jenness]

Paperbacked veneer is typically .010" pre-sanded veneer on a .010" paper backing. The actual wood thickness is probably very close to that on mdf core plywood. Standard dry veneer thickness prior to layup runs about .022" before sanding, but they are always trying to slice the baloney thinner.

I don't understand your description of the shelves. A picture would help.

Using pre-veneered panels requires a reliable method of flushing the edgebanding without damaging the face veneers. Veneering the shelves yourself allows for banding first and then veneering over the joint.

For such thick shelves you might consider using foam or lightweight wood grid or stringers for a core with 1/4" skins. In any case it will involve laminating for thickness and piecing for length.

[Jamie Buxton]

Paper backed veneer is typically 1/32 thick or so. I'm concerned about your description: 1" edge...bevels back for 2". You're saying that the bevel continues into the veneer? You certainly don't want to use paper-backed veneer then. You'll be seeing the paper, which is not walnut color.

Maybe thick veneer will help you. Certainlywood.com offers 1/16"-thick walnut veneer. But then you're going to need a veneer press. I recommend a vacuum veneer press. You can make your own bag to accept a 16'-long workpiece. Or, better, you make the shelves as 8 foot long, and butt them together on the wall.

[Jim Becker]

What Jamie brought up is also my concern

[Mark Gibney]

Sorry about my delay in replying. Thanksgiving guests!
Here's a sketch of the front and end of the shelves.
I'm leaning towards using paper-backed veneer on the top, bottom and the bevel.

511159

[Jonathan Jung]

Why not save yourself a heap of time and make them out of solid walnut? Sheppard brackets are quite easy to use.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I am a fan of paper backed veneer. Veneer suppliers generally disclose the thickness of the wood, unlike many sheet goods manufactures. The veneer on some sheet goods is so thin it only has one side. With paper back veneers one can use Heat Lock Iron On Veneer Glue or contact cement and forgo presses or vacuums. I do not have permission to view the OP's image. This reads like an interesting project.

[Richard Coers]

I'm just the opposite, I detest paper backed. You have to rely on a piece of paper and how well it was stuck to the veneer in a factory. Combine that with solvent and a layer of rubber, and you are open to separation issues if your project ever gets put in front of a south facing window. I've read about separation issues with too heavy of a coat of lacquer since lacquer thinner causes the glue to fail where holding the veneer to paper. If all the discussion is just about damaging the surface while working, just be more careful!

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I'm just the opposite, I detest paper backed. You have to rely on a piece of paper and how well it was stuck to the veneer in a factory. Combine that with solvent and a layer of rubber, and you are open to separation issues if your project ever gets put in front of a south facing window. I've read about separation issues with too heavy of a coat of lacquer since lacquer thinner causes the glue to fail where holding the veneer to paper. If all the discussion is just about damaging the surface while working, just be more careful!

Paper backed certainly has it pitfalls. I had the unfortunate experience of getting trained to apply it by a wallpaper hanger. Contact cement is terribly unforgiving. The heat processes are much less unforgiving. Neither one really feels like woodworking. I have never had any problem with the factory bond between the paper and wood.

The the product I like is backed with a phenolic resin. I should not refer to it as paper.

[Richard Coers]

I have used that phenolic backed as well. It was on a church restoration and to save some huge old doors, I used the phenolic backed like door skins. What saved that job was running a rabbet router bit around the edges and inlaid now wood. That gave a new crisp corner to let the veneer lay tight. The old doors with all the wear on the edges would not have worked as it was.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have used that phenolic backed as well. It was on a church restoration and to save some huge old doors, I used the phenolic backed like door skins. What saved that job was running a rabbet router bit around the edges and inlaid now wood. That gave a new crisp corner to let the veneer lay tight. The old doors with all the wear on the edges would not have worked as it was.

That is a very clever repair Richard!
I sometimes use counter top edge techniques when working with veneer. For example, DIY versions of Ideal Edge or a chamfer edge inlay of solid wood.

[Mark Gibney]

Thanks for the perspectives, guys. Off to the shop now to start on this.
Jonathan, the shelves will be 14' - 16' long, and the client's budget rules out solid walnut, so veneer it shall be!

[andrew whicker]

Why not pre veneered ply?

I did this one (more or less) the way you described yours above. Definitely was careful with alignment and sanding, but it worked out pretty well.

511215

[Mark Gibney]

Nice work Andrew.
That was the core of my original question - walnut faced MDF core vs paper-backed veneer. I've decided on the paper-backed veneer.