The Amalgimated Brain Trust

[Bruce Wrenn]

Earlier this week, went to local grocery to buy some sweet potatoes, which were on sale for $0.25 per pound. They come, 40# to the box, and I wanted 4 boxes (160#.) We like sweet potatoes, and these $0.25 per pound ones taste a lot better than the $1.19 per pound ones. Being as how they were in boxes, the local grocery store brain trust had to figure out how to price them and how much. Scale at register was too small to hold a box. After watching them try on cash register, and then on app on phone, I told them that the total price would be $40, plus 2% sales tax ($0.80.) You would think that they had just met Einstien, as I could actually figure the price without using a calculator, or an app on the phone. I'm not sure these kids could count to 21, unless they were naked in the shower. The local brain trust at work!

[Bill Dufour]

Be fair. I am sure teen girls are smarter and could count to 22.
Bill D

[Patty Hann]

Be fair. I am sure teen girls are smarter and could count to 22.
Bill D
Agreed. They would use both hands and feet and would still have a few fingers (or toes) left over.

[Jim Koepke]

I told them that the total price would be $40, plus 2% sales tax ($0.80.)

Sales tax on an unprocessed food item?

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

I do think we have entered an age of an Common Humanity's Brain Rot.

jtk

[Rich Engelhardt]

My son and daughter in law teach English to Chinese children via the internet.

We are so screwed.......

[Patty Hann]

Sales tax on an unprocessed food item?

jtk
Depends on the state/county/city laws.... in AZ some cities charge a sales tax on grocery store food purchases, some don't.

[Ron Citerone]

A few teens working a register that can’t do that math in their head is hardly indicative of a whole generation or of the future of society.

A boomer who needs help from his daughter or grandson to solve an iphone issue doesn’t mean old folks doom society either.

People learning a foreign language via the internet hardly proves we are screwed.

Whenever old folks start on the young people, they are shocked when I tell them they should meet some of the awesome young people in my life. My kids and their friends are not only smart but combined with their tech skills are amazing. In current lingo “They are killin it!”

Instead of looking for young folks to criticize I have learned to find an amazing one and compliment them. You just might be pleasantly surprised! I always am!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Roll back a lot of calendar pages, and you'd encounter my Dad's dismay at the certainty that his dope-smoking, war-protesting, long-haired, smart-mouth, lost-in-the-tall-grass progeny would certainly auger in, sooner rather than later.

I'm sorry to report that he was mistaken in his evaluation of an entire generation, not solely its most annoying representative.

The new generation will always be this week's sign that the apocalyse is upon us. That, methinks, is one of their key roles - keep the elders on their collective back feet.

As per Neil Young - Keep On Rockin' in the Free World

[Rich Engelhardt]

A few teens working a register that can’t do that math in their head is hardly indicative of a whole generation or of the future of society.

A boomer who needs help from his daughter or grandson to solve an iphone issue doesn’t mean old folks doom society either.

People learning a foreign language via the internet hardly proves we are screwed.

Whenever old folks start on the young people, they are shocked when I tell them they should meet some of the awesome young people in my life. My kids and their friends are not only smart but combined with their tech skills are amazing. In current lingo “They are killin it!”

Instead of looking for young folks to criticize I have learned to find an amazing one and compliment them. You just might be pleasantly surprised! I always am!In itself - the kids learning a foreign language - doesn't really mean much - I agree.
The fact that those kids are hungry to learn, always early, are sitting on the edge of their chairs excited to be learning, being helped at every turn by the education system in place in China, not subjected to all of the negative aspects of our education system - - and - - have the full and enthusiastic support of their parents - - - yeah - we are so screwed...

[Alan Rutherford]

Any of us, and I think this group is more older than younger, are entitled to feel as I do that "I don't know everything but I know more than anyone younger than I am". And every day there are more people younger than I am. I'd agree that many of them know things I don't, but 365 times this many years is worth something.

[Pat Germain]

Typically the young people who are very good at math and do really well in school aren't working at the local grocery store in a minimum wage, part time job with no benefits. Said young people are taking college courses while still in high school or they are already in college and studying their tails off for STEM degrees. When not in class and when not studying or writing papers, these young people often do corporate internships. Although, we will ocasionally run into one of the more advanced young people working at a grocery store for some extra cash.

[Doug Garson]

A few teens working a register that can’t do that math in their head is hardly indicative of a whole generation or of the future of society.

A boomer who needs help from his daughter or grandson to solve an iphone issue doesn’t mean old folks doom society either.

People learning a foreign language via the internet hardly proves we are screwed.

Whenever old folks start on the young people, they are shocked when I tell them they should meet some of the awesome young people in my life. My kids and their friends are not only smart but combined with their tech skills are amazing. In current lingo “They are killin it!”

Instead of looking for young folks to criticize I have learned to find an amazing one and compliment them. You just might be pleasantly surprised! I always am!

We need a like button on this forum. Well said.

[Doug Garson]

Roll back a lot of calendar pages, and you'd encounter my Dad's dismay at the certainty that his dope-smoking, war-protesting, long-haired, smart-mouth, lost-in-the-tall-grass progeny would certainly auger in, sooner rather than later.

I'm sorry to report that he was mistaken in his evaluation of an entire generation, not solely its most annoying representative.

The new generation will always be this week's sign that the apocalyse is upon us. That, methinks, is one of their key roles - keep the elders on their collective back feet.

As per Neil Young - Keep On Rockin' in the Free World
Another example of why we need a like button,again well said.

[Jim Koepke]

Depends on the state/county/city laws.... in AZ some cities charge a sales tax on grocery store food purchases, some don't.

Two states of my residence do not tax food. In Washington it used to be people from across the river in Oregon didn't have to pay sales tax here. At every check out the clerk used to ask, "Washington or Oregon?" Washington law exempts most grocery type food from retail sales tax. However, the law does not exempt “prepared food,” “soft drinks,” or “dietary supplements.” Businesses that sell these “foods” must collect sales tax. In addition, all alcoholic items are subject to retail sales tax.

California seems to have become more confusing since we moved north.

California provides a Tax Guide for Restaurant Owners. Sales of food and beverages for consumption at your place of business are usually taxable at the entire combined state and local sales tax rate, unless they are cold food products such as cold sandwiches, milkshakes, smoothies, ice cream, and cold salads sold to-go. Heated food is taxable whether or not it is sold to-go or for consumption at your restaurant. The same exception with hot baked goods, as explained above, applies.


A few teens working a register that can’t do that math in their head is hardly indicative of a whole generation or of the future of society.

One of my high school teachers told the class, the demise of society due to the antics or short comings of the youthful members of the human race is an ages old lament.

This from > https://goodwingrowth.com/younger-generation-going-dogs/


“This Younger Generation Is Going To The Dogs!”
That’s a quote from a bit of graffiti Napoleon’s soldiers found while excavating in Egypt.
The graffiti was from 800 B.C.
There were other comments on that wall – the younger generation apparently didn’t respect their elders, had no work ethic, and were not following tradition.


It seems the older generation has been not really seeing the potential of our younger generation for millennia.

jtk

[Mark Wedel]

I remember buying some lunch meat at the deli counter once and asking for 3/4 of a pound. The person there was like 'that is .5 right?', since they just have digital scales, and was bummed when I told them it was .75 since they apparently just missed that on a test they took. I thought fractions was something taught in elementary school.
However, I might also say that those kids working as cashiers or slicing lunch meat at the deli counter might not be the sharpest tools in the shed. The smarter kids might be working better jobs.

[Edward Weber]

Teens did not, will not, learn the same things we did.
Simple math should not be an issue, just as using a smart phone should not grant one special powers.
Every generation has a slightly different knowledge base from which to draw from.
There are however a few simple objective facts that everyone needs to acknowledge.
There is not an app for everything.
Google doesn't know everything.
You should be able to remember something simple, like a phone number, with having to put it in your phone.
Not everything old was better
and so on

I do tend to agree with the OP, this is not always rocket science when it comes to ample everyday tasks, although it does take a few more brain cells than swiping your phone.

[Jim Koepke]

I remember buying some lunch meat at the deli counter once and asking for 3/4 of a pound. The person there was like 'that is .5 right?', since they just have digital scales, and was bummed when I told them it was .75 since they apparently just missed that on a test they took. I thought fractions was something taught in elementary school.
However, I might also say that those kids working as cashiers or slicing lunch meat at the deli counter might not be the sharpest tools in the shed. The smarter kids might be working better jobs.

Now there's a thought, many service and counter attendant jobs are going unfilled. Could it be because there are so many young people whose education has propelled them beyond having to flip burgers or wrangle shopping carts?

jtk

[Alan Rutherford]

I worked part-time at the cash register in a grocery store my last year in high school. (When was the last time you saw an 18-year-old at the register?) That was in the late 1950's when registers did no math except for adding up the totals. The only price I remember was frozen orange juice in 6-ounce cans (half the size of the 12-ounce cans that are more common now). 6 for $0.75. I think the reason I remember them is that it would have been challenging to figure the price for quantities other than 6. But it was taken in stride. I'd like to see some of today's cashiers handle that.

BTW, the typical customer spent about $17 and if I remember correctly the $17 of groceries fit in 2 standard paper grocery bags. It might have been 3 bags. Prices have gone up some since then.

[Rob Luter]

Been there. About 20 years ago I was having lunch in a local cafe. The power went out. We finished our meal and went to the counter to pay. The register was down and the kid flying the counter was clueless. I did the math in my head, including tax. When I told him the total he looked at me like I’d just revealed the secrets of the universe. “How did you do that?” I wasn’t stoned in Jr. high math class.

[Zachary Hoyt]

6 for 75 cents is okay as long as they are bought in even numbers, at 2 for a quarter. Odd numbers would require rounding, which is never fun in a retail context.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A boyhood friend tried The Missing Dollar Riddle on me. I asked my mom for help trying to figure it out. She very quickly told me "That is not math, that is a trick of words" Mom was a teacher and usually taught English.

[Stan Calow]

The sweet potato calculation in the OP was what we used to be taught as a story problem. A calculator won't help someone figure out how to solve it if the person cant break down the problem into parts. It's the attitude that bothers me: "I dont need to know how to do some things because the computer will do the hard stuff for me." Taking pride in one's ignorance or lack of skill is not a commendable trait. A grade school teacher of mine used to say "if you dont learn how to think, you'll be paying someone else to do it for you."

[Maurice Mcmurry]

OP sure has an appetite for potatoes!

[Patty Hann]

OP sure has an appetite for potatoes!

SWEET Potatoes. Ever had Sweet Potato Pie? Yum.

[Jim Koepke]

SWEET Potatoes. Ever had Sweet Potato Pie? Yum.

I love Sweet Potato Pie. Down where I used to live most of the BBQ places also had Sweet Potato Pie on the menu, yummm.

jtk

[George Yetka]

I think the world could be saved if they stop making school so "inclusive" the no kid left behind way of doing things doesnt help anybody, no one is going to work for it and if they do it will be for a dumbed down version of a curriculum. People still have to live after HS and college. Life is the only real education we have left.

I do think that everything comes later. 60 years ago people had kids at 18 so life came at them fast(quick way to learn) now kids live with their parents till 30. The flipside is a person could afford a 3 bedroom house on an acre of land 60 years ago. Now you need to make your first 1/4 million before you can afford anything.

[Pat Germain]

I think there's a big misunderstanding about "No Child Left Behind". I've heard many people say that means students are promoted to the next grade with no consideration for their abilities. As I understand it, No Child Left Behind is a federal governmant program where students are regularly tested and if the test scores are consistently low, the federal government takes over the school.

I'm not saying students who are promoted to the next grade have actually mastered all the skills from their current grade. I'm saying whether or not students are advanced to the next grade has nothing to do with No Child Left Behind.

Personally, I attribute most of our country's current problems to perpetually underfunded public education, but a detailed discussion about that would not be permitted here.

[Ron Selzer]

"The flipside is a person could afford a 3 bedroom house on an acre of land 60 years ago. Now you need to make your first 1/4 million before you can afford anything."

BS. I tried to buy a house back in the 70's Wanted to buy a new house for 36-40k could not qualify with 2 incomes. Finally bought a house in 1980. House cost 13k NO inside toilet, outside outhouse. No central heat, had room gas heaters, upstairs had gas lights. 110 vac 30 amp electric service, 3 lights and 3 receptacles in the house. House was built in 1913, one family owned. Removed plaster to find brick inside the downstairs walls. Gutted the house, installed all new mechanicals, moved in and drywalled and finished as we could pay for it.
10% interest on the mortgage. A few years later rates went up to 18% with 5 year minimum before refinancing. Glad I bought when I did.
Interest rates all still very reasonable compared to back then. I won't go into which President and political party caused it, do to forum rules. I lived thru it, not the great times some people think it was. Better now than then.
Ron

[Ron Selzer]

Kids are not allowed to "fail" in the schools now. The Teacher must pass them, whether by tutoring, holding the whole class back to work with the ones who refuse to do their work, etc. Teacher has to pass the kids.
Ron

[Pat Germain]

"The flipside is a person could afford a 3 bedroom house on an acre of land 60 years ago. Now you need to make your first 1/4 million before you can afford anything."

BS. I tried to buy a house back in the 70's Wanted to buy a new house for 36-40k could not qualify with 2 incomes. Finally bought a house in 1980. House cost 13k NO inside toilet, outside outhouse. No central heat, had room gas heaters, upstairs had gas lights. 110 vac 30 amp electric service, 3 lights and 3 receptacles in the house. House was built in 1913, one family owned. Removed plaster to find brick inside the downstairs walls. Gutted the house, installed all new mechanicals, moved in and drywalled and finished as we could pay for it.
10% interest on the mortgage. A few years later rates went up to 18% with 5 year minimum before refinancing. Glad I bought when I did.
Interest rates all still very reasonable compared to back then. I won't go into which President and political party caused it, do to forum rules. I lived thru it, not the great times some people think it was. Better now than then.
Ron



I'm not sure of your overall point here.

Yes, you are certainly correct about current interest rates really not being that high considering recent history.

I'm glad you were able to find and buy a fixer-upper. No doubt you had to work very hard on that house. But the reality is even a fixer-upper is far beyond affordability for most young people here in 2023. Sure, you can find lower cost housing in some areas. But those areas have no jobs with decent pay which is why it's a lower cost area. In any area of the US which has any real economy with decent paying jobs, housing is uber-crazy-expensive and beyond the reach of most young people.

[George Yetka]

"The flipside is a person could afford a 3 bedroom house on an acre of land 60 years ago. Now you need to make your first 1/4 million before you can afford anything."

BS. I tried to buy a house back in the 70's Wanted to buy a new house for 36-40k could not qualify with 2 incomes. Finally bought a house in 1980. House cost 13k NO inside toilet, outside outhouse. No central heat, had room gas heaters, upstairs had gas lights. 110 vac 30 amp electric service, 3 lights and 3 receptacles in the house. House was built in 1913, one family owned. Removed plaster to find brick inside the downstairs walls. Gutted the house, installed all new mechanicals, moved in and drywalled and finished as we could pay for it.
10% interest on the mortgage. A few years later rates went up to 18% with 5 year minimum before refinancing. Glad I bought when I did.
Interest rates all still very reasonable compared to back then. I won't go into which President and political party caused it, do to forum rules. I lived thru it, not the great times some people think it was. Better now than then.
Ron



It is true mortgaging was high and hard to get but If you took your two incomes and found a way to live rent free for a year you could take your earnings and buy a house. Kids now would need 10 years salary for the same house and if they are lucky they dont have 200k in student loans. NJ is particularly high in real estate values.

[Edward Weber]

It is true mortgaging was high and hard to get but If you took your two incomes and found a way to live rent free for a year you could take your earnings and buy a house. Kids now would need 10 years salary for the same house and if they are lucky they dont have 200k in student loans. NJ is particularly high in real estate values.

I get what you're saying but finding a way to live rent free for a year? How do you do that?

When I was 21, thinking about looking at houses, the 12.5% interest rate slapped me in the face and said no. Young, single, limited to no credit history, there was no way to do it on your own. If you didn't have a parent co-sign or put up their house as collateral, there was simply no way to qualify.
Young people today may have a different set of circumstances, unique to the current economic climate but I don't see it as any more or less difficult.

[Alan Rutherford]

I remember reading something about the average person never having been able to afford a house - and that was probably in the 1970's. It's never been easy. Some times it's harder than others.

[Doug Garson]

Young people today may have a different set of circumstances, unique to the current economic climate but I don't see it as any more or less difficult.

Found this on Reddit, may not be 100% accurate but is consistent with what I've seen elsewhere. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/usj313/did_a_bit_of_math_for_wages_and_home_prices_in/#:~:text=House%20cost%20about%207%20times,average% 20was%20108%24%20a%20month.

"1970
Average yearly wage: $9,870
Average house price: $17,000
House cost about 1.72 times your annual (single income) salary.
2022
Average US yearly wage: $53,490
Average house price: $374,900
House cost about 7 times your annual (single income) salary.
Short story,
You need to work for 6.5 years to buy a house for what people could buy them for after one year of work in the 70's."

Another quote from a different source: https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-historical-study/
"To understand how expensive the American Dream has become — and whether it is still achievable today — we gathered Census data from 1960 to 2017 on home prices, rents, and household income. After adjusting for inflation over time, the future of the American Dream seems rather gloomy: Median home prices increased 121% nationwide since 1960, but median household income only increased 29%.
Home buyers aren’t the only ones struggling. Median gross rent increased by 72% since the 1960s, more than twice the growth seen by adjusted incomes, making renting costlier than ever and saving for a future home difficult."

So for the current generation, it is harder to find affordable rental accomodation than it was for previous generations (that means us) to buy a home.

[George Yetka]

Another quote from a different source: https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-historical-study/
"To understand how expensive the American Dream has become — and whether it is still achievable today — we gathered Census data from 1960 to 2017 on home prices, rents, and household income. After adjusting for inflation over time, the future of the American Dream seems rather gloomy: Median home prices increased 121% nationwide since 1960, but median household income only increased 29%.
Home buyers aren’t the only ones struggling. Median gross rent increased by 72% since the 1960s, more than twice the growth seen by adjusted incomes, making renting costlier than ever and saving for a future home difficult."

So for the current generation, it is harder to find affordable rental accomodation than it was for previous generations (that means us) to buy a home.

These percentages dont make sense compared with the first quote.

[Edward Weber]

Found this on Reddit, may not be 100% accurate but is consistent with what I've seen elsewhere. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/usj313/did_a_bit_of_math_for_wages_and_home_prices_in/#:~:text=House%20cost%20about%207%20times,average% 20was%20108%24%20a%20month.

"1970
Average yearly wage: $9,870
Average house price: $17,000
House cost about 1.72 times your annual (single income) salary.
2022
Average US yearly wage: $53,490
Average house price: $374,900
House cost about 7 times your annual (single income) salary.
Short story,
You need to work for 6.5 years to buy a house for what people could buy them for after one year of work in the 70's."

Another quote from a different source: https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-historical-study/
"To understand how expensive the American Dream has become — and whether it is still achievable today — we gathered Census data from 1960 to 2017 on home prices, rents, and household income. After adjusting for inflation over time, the future of the American Dream seems rather gloomy: Median home prices increased 121% nationwide since 1960, but median household income only increased 29%.
Home buyers aren’t the only ones struggling. Median gross rent increased by 72% since the 1960s, more than twice the growth seen by adjusted incomes, making renting costlier than ever and saving for a future home difficult."

So for the current generation, it is harder to find affordable rental accomodation than it was for previous generations (that means us) to buy a home.

( I write this fully knowing that numbers can be manipulated to support any position )

Interest rates
What a house costs and what you actually pay for it are usually much different.
In your two examples the inrerest rate is about the same, roughly 7%. In 1985, A 85k house with 12.5% 30 year rate would be well over 230k and the average income was about 24k. So the price was actually close to 10 times your pay.
So at today's rates, the total price including interest would be about 80k less and monthly payments about $200 less.

As for the wages, I agree. I really can't believe people are fighting about the FED minimum wage of $7.25 . We were making that as just unskilled laborers 40 years ago but with interest rates so high, you still couldn't afford anything, as I posted above.

In my era, we had decent wages and high interest rates, now it seems the rates are okay but wages are not.
As I said, no situation is better or worse than the other, just different.

[Keegan Shields]

Old people complaining about young people always makes me chuckle...

[Doug Garson]

These percentages dont make sense compared with the first quote.
Maybe, but note the second set of numbers are for a different time period (1960 to 2017 vs 1970 to 2022) and are adjusted for inflation. They are also from different sources and I suspect the second source is likely more reliable. In either case, and if you do a search you will find several other comparisons agree with the conclusion that wages have not kept up with increases in house prices and cost of living in general from the 60s and 70s to today. The house we bought about 25 years ago is now valued at about 3 to 4 times what we paid for it. The house we sold at the same time is now estimated to be worth about 4 times what we sold it for. In the same time period, average household incomes have increased about 2.5 times.

[Doug Garson]

Old people complaining about young people always makes me chuckle...
Luckily, young people never complain about old people. :rolleyes:

[Jerome Stanek]

Found this on Reddit, may not be 100% accurate but is consistent with what I've seen elsewhere. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/usj313/did_a_bit_of_math_for_wages_and_home_prices_in/#:~:text=House%20cost%20about%207%20times,average% 20was%20108%24%20a%20month.

"1970
Average yearly wage: $9,870
Average house price: $17,000
House cost about 1.72 times your annual (single income) salary.
2022
Average US yearly wage: $53,490
Average house price: $374,900
House cost about 7 times your annual (single income) salary.
Short story,
You need to work for 6.5 years to buy a house for what people could buy them for after one year of work in the 70's."

Another quote from a different source: https://listwithclever.com/research/home-price-v-income-historical-study/
"To understand how expensive the American Dream has become — and whether it is still achievable today — we gathered Census data from 1960 to 2017 on home prices, rents, and household income. After adjusting for inflation over time, the future of the American Dream seems rather gloomy: Median home prices increased 121% nationwide since 1960, but median household income only increased 29%.
Home buyers aren’t the only ones struggling. Median gross rent increased by 72% since the 1960s, more than twice the growth seen by adjusted incomes, making renting costlier than ever and saving for a future home difficult."

So for the current generation, it is harder to find affordable rental accomodation than it was for previous generations (that means us) to buy a home.

I don't know where those figures came from but back in 1970 I was making about $4000 a year. in 1978 I was up to $15,600 a year

[Doug Garson]

I don't know where those figures came from but back in 1970 I was making about $4000 a year. in 1978 I was up to $15,600 a year
I graduated in 1973 with an engineering degree, if I remember correctly my starting salary was around $12,000 so an average of $9,870 in 1970 sounds about right.

[Tom M King]

In 1970 I bought a new Olds 442 for $3300.

[Ron Selzer]

"kids" can start as custodians with no college needed or wanted for approx 40k at schools in Central Ohio, work overtime be at 50-60k. YET always short of custodians. 10 yrs as you say, that is 400K to 600k. NO house in my 800+ home sub devolpment sells for over 350k. One just listed for 234k. 3-4 bedroom 1200-2200sq ft all have basements, 2 car garage paved driveways. built between 1995-2004. Shoots your statement all to crap for this area and unemployment is low, "According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the unemployment rate in Central Ohio for October 2023 was 3.6% (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.oh.htm)1 (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.oh.htm)."
Ron

[Rick Potter]

December of 1964, newly married at 21, I made $440 a month as a brand new fireman. We bought a 12 year old 1100 sq ft house for $13,900. $300 down on FHA, and payments of $88 a month including tax and ins. Single income, and it cost us about $400 total (a month's income) to get in the house. Payments were under the 25% of income the FHA required at the time.

I seriously doubt anyone making bottom rung fireman wages today would qualify for that same (now 70 yr. old) house, much less meet the single income requirements. It is much harder to now own a home than we had it in the old days.

That is not even considering the 'extras' that today are considered essential, such as A/C, cable, internet, cell phone costs, etc..

[Doug Garson]

"kids" can start as custodians with no college needed or wanted for approx 40k at schools in Central Ohio, work overtime be at 50-60k. YET always short of custodians. 10 yrs as you say, that is 400K to 600k. NO house in my 800+ home sub devolpment sells for over 350k. One just listed for 234k. 3-4 bedroom 1200-2200sq ft all have basements, 2 car garage paved driveways. built between 1995-2004. Shoots your statement all to crap for this area and unemployment is low, "According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the unemployment rate in Central Ohio for October 2023 was 3.6% (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.oh.htm)1 (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.oh.htm)."
Ron
I think the 3.6% unemployment rate, which I believe is considered full employment, explains why there are school custodian jobs unfilled.

[Ron Selzer]

Work with a custodian in his 20's. He bought a 4 bedroom house in a decent sub development built early 90's. Lived in his mom's basement while saving up money for 20% down. Drives a beater car not something nice, stays out of the bars and clubs.
Had new roof and solar panels installed last year, electric bill now less than a dollar for a month over 6 months of the year. According to people on here no way should he have been able to do that. All that matters is how important something is to the individual, can't have Starbucks every day, bars and clubs every weekend, leasing new car every two years, etc. Have a secretary in the district, who her and her husband didn't have a working furnace until Feb a few years back due to new clothes, bars and clubbing, new vehicles were what mattered to them. Those are the people that cry they can't afford a house.
Ron

[Pat Germain]

"kids" can start as custodians with no college needed or wanted for approx 40k at schools in Central Ohio, work overtime be at 50-60k. YET always short of custodians. 10 yrs as you say, that is 400K to 600k. NO house in my 800+ home sub devolpment sells for over 350k. One just listed for 234k. 3-4 bedroom 1200-2200sq ft all have basements, 2 car garage paved driveways. built between 1995-2004. Shoots your statement all to crap for this area and unemployment is low, "According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the unemployment rate in Central Ohio for October 2023 was 3.6% (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.oh.htm)1 (https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.oh.htm)."
Ron

I just checked on online mortgage calcuator. With a $50,000 salary and a 20% down payment, the most I could qualify for was $163,00. Whats the future of a public school janitor? Nothing wrong with the work, but I suspect there's not a lot of potential earnings growth there which is likely why the job remains unfilled. That and some people just don't want to scrub toilets.

[Edward Weber]

Lived in his mom's basement while saving up money for 20% down.
Ron

This is just not an option for everyone.
Most of the friends I knew were all working, and on their own shortly out of high school.
This notion of, don't waste your money on frivolous things and save, while living free off your parents, just does not apply for most people.
Economic conditions, family dynamics, geography, they're all different for everyone. One size does not fit all.

Just because someone makes 40k per year does not mean after ten years they have 400k, even if they're living free in your moms basement.

[Ron Selzer]

Throwing different things out there. All of my friends graduated high school, none went on to college. Yet somehow most of us managed to buy houses, a few went to prison for dealing drugs and I lost track of them. I bought the new built house I live in, June 1999 with single income, wife was in between colleges, it is paid for now. Divorce and market crash 2008, just had to put my head down and work a lot of overtime and side jobs. You have to do what's necessary. Both kids went to college along with 2cd wife who divorced me after getting four years of college and a master's degree. 401k's, savings bonds gone to pay towards her college. No vacations for years, still none. Retirement, forget about it, flew past 66 birthday and keep on working, can't quit. However I don't cry about it. I made my choices some good some bad and I live with them.
First wife, no college, retired 6 years ago, travels the world as she wants, worth over a million now. Saved and did without unimportant things to get there.
ALL IN WANT YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE.
I see in the young generation all along as I get older. The ones that want to buy a house do without other things to get there.
The ones that have to be in the bars and clubs, always have new cars/trucks, latest clothes, cry about how unfair life is. Somebody needs to pay for their college, someone needs to give them a better house than their parents have now.
Ron

[Bill Howatt]

I agree that it boils down to "what you want to do with your life", "not everybody's the same", and people should be prepared to do some work.
OTOH, I do not agree that working lots of overtime, side jobs, not participating in social activities, no reasonable retirement age is "living".
There are lots of people, such as single parents, that do work extra shifts, extra jobs and these days it is often not even enough to get by.
I'll go out on a limb and risk ridicule, but I think the housing problem has been severely worsened by families having 2 instead of the traditional 1 income. Their increased income has facilitated increased housing prices.

[Pat Germain]

Throwing different things out there. All of my friends graduated high school, none went on to college. Yet somehow most of us managed to buy houses, a few went to prison for dealing drugs and I lost track of them. I bought the new built house I live in, June 1999 with single income, wife was in between colleges, it is paid for now. Divorce and market crash 2008, just had to put my head down and work a lot of overtime and side jobs. You have to do what's necessary. Both kids went to college along with 2cd wife who divorced me after getting four years of college and a master's degree. 401k's, savings bonds gone to pay towards her college. No vacations for years, still none. Retirement, forget about it, flew past 66 birthday and keep on working, can't quit. However I don't cry about it. I made my choices some good some bad and I live with them.
First wife, no college, retired 6 years ago, travels the world as she wants, worth over a million now. Saved and did without unimportant things to get there.
ALL IN WANT YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE.
I see in the young generation all along as I get older. The ones that want to buy a house do without other things to get there.
The ones that have to be in the bars and clubs, always have new cars/trucks, latest clothes, cry about how unfair life is. Somebody needs to pay for their college, someone needs to give them a better house than their parents have now.
Ron

Really? "Always?" Let's just ignore the ultra-skyrocketing costs of housing, higher education and everything else and blame the victims. Yeah, everyone who is poor due to their own fault and everyone has the same opportunities in life; NOT! This reminds me of all those BS YouTube videos telling people if they stopped drinking Starbucks coffee they will have a $100,000 in no time. Dorks.

[Edwin Santos]

A lot of this analysis varies dramatically based on location. I say this in terms of both sides of the equation, one being income opportunity and the other being cost of housing/living.

Interest rates for mortgages are an important factor, but for the purposes of evaluating pure affordability, it is not hard to look at the ratio over time between income and housing prices. This is basically what Doug has pointed out above. Over time, that ratio has spread significantly, meaning housing is much less affordable in relation to income today versus in the past. Personally I think those of us that got in when we did should be a little bit grateful, and the younger generation that is trying to get a foothold in today's economics deserve a little bit of empathy. Consider education and medical cost, and the picture becomes even worse. Maybe not much of a concern for those of us now on Medicare and/or who obtained their education when it cost 1/10 of what it costs today.

Again, this can vary a lot from location to location. And there are always plenty of anecdotal specific examples or outliers that will make any case you like, but don't let those distract you from a larger trend.
What I am referencing above is more of an average scenario in urban areas nationwide.

[Doug Garson]

What are the three most important things in real estate? Location, location, location.

Ron posted " NO house in my 800+ home sub devolpment sells for over 350k. One just listed for 234k. " Ok convert that to Canadian dollars that's about $480 Cnd and $320 Cnd. In my area you can't buy a vacant lot for those prices, the average home price is $1.3 million Cnd and it's not a high end neighbourhood. The average school custodian makes about $50k (which is 25% above the national average), don't think too many custodians are buying $1.3 million dollar homes.

[Edward Weber]

As I've said, you can make numbers say what you want.
Look at the median home prices by state.



State
Price


Alabama
$286,000


Alaska
$384,000


Arizona
$443,000


Arkansas
$259,000


California
$799,000


Colorado
$582,000


Connecticut
$432,000


Delaware
$335,000


District of Columbia
$606,000


Florida
$409,000


Georgia
$376,000


Hawaii
$713,000


Idaho
$460,000


Illinois
$295,000


Indiana
$258,000


Iowa
$239,000


Kansas
$282,000


Kentucky
$257,000


Louisiana
$260,000


Maine
$389,000


Maryland
$433,000


Massachusetts
$640,000


Michigan
$260,000


Minnesota
$353,000


Mississippi
$263,000


Missouri
$267,000


Montana
$527,000


Nebraska
$296,000


Nevada
$437,000


New Hampshire
$468,000


New Jersey
$498,000


New Mexico
$354,000


New York
$531,000


North Carolina
$378,000


North Dakota
$308,000


Ohio
$249,000


Oklahoma
$256,000


Oregon
$510,000


Pennsylvania
$300,000


Rhode Island
$471,000


South Carolina
$381,000


South Dakota
$332,000


Tennessee
$385,000


Texas
$362,000


Utah
$545,000


Vermont
$390,000


Virginia
$445,000


Washington
$621,000


West Virginia
$297,000


Wisconsin
$307,000


Wyoming
$323,000



Some of the prices mentioned in this thread are in the lowest brackets.
CA has the highest, at three times the prices of a few other states. Are the wages three times higher, he asks rhetorically. It is, what it is.
You can only ever change your circumstance to a certain degree, otherwise you play the cards you're dealt.
I've lived in 5 different states, they all have their pros and cons.

[Doug Garson]

It is, what it is.
You can only ever change your circumstance to a certain degree, otherwise you play the cards you're dealt.
Agreed and several Millennials I know, with good paying jobs and dual income households, accept the fact that home ownership, at least at this phase of their lives, is out of reach. So they save some money for future retirement (one works for a financial planner), and enjoy life with the rest of their money.

[Edwin Santos]

I think it becomes more interesting to take Edward's data and add in the income per capita and calculate the ratio. Historically for financial planners a 4x ratio was a good rule of thumb for affordability, but now almost all states are above that. I don't have any Canadian data on hand, but having visited there, I would guess the greater Vancouver area to easily be >10 these days.

If you're interested, I found an interesting site that charted the ratio of affordability over time. You can see on this chart that other than the housing bubble in 2006, we are WAY higher than historical norms right now. https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-income-ratio/#:~:text=Historically%2C%20the%20average%20cost%20 of,US%20median%20annual%20household%20income.



State
Price
Per Capita Income
Ratio of Home Price/Income


Alabama
$286,000
50,916
5.62


Alaska
$384,000
68,635
5.59


Arizona
$443,000
58,442
7.58


Arkansas
$259,000
52,618
4.92


California
$799,000
77,036
10.37


Colorado
$582,000
75,722
7.69


Connecticut
$432,000
82,938
5.21


Delaware
$335,000
63,243
5.30


District of Columbia
$606,000
95,970
6.31


Florida
$409,000
64,806
6.31


Georgia
$376,000
56,589
6.64


Hawaii
$713,000
61,779
11.54


Idaho
$460,000
56,614
8.13


Illinois
$295,000
67,655
4.36


Indiana
$258,000
58,323
4.42


Iowa
$239,000
60,222
3.97


Kansas
$282,000
60,424
4.67


Kentucky
$257,000
51,921
4.95


Louisiana
$260,000
54,501
4.77


Maine
$389,000
60,599
6.42


Maryland
$433,000
70,228
6.17


Massachusetts
$640,000
84,561
7.57


Michigan
$260,000
57,038
4.56


Minnesota
$353,000
68,840
5.13


Mississippi
$263,000
46,370
5.67


Missouri
$267,000
57,818
4.62


Montana
$527,000
60,984
8.64


Nebraska
$296,000
64,268
4.61


Nevada
$437,000
62,085
7.04


New Hampshire
$468,000
73,910
6.33


New Jersey
$498,000
77,199
6.45


New Mexico
$354,000
52,194
6.78


New York
$531,000
75,407
7.04


North Carolina
$378,000
58,109
6.51


North Dakota
$308,000
70,360
4.38


Ohio
$249,000
57,777
4.31


Oklahoma
$256,000
56,298
4.55


Oregon
$510,000
62,303
8.19


Pennsylvania
$300,000
64,506
4.65


Rhode Island
$471,000
63,557
7.41


South Carolina
$381,000
53,618
7.11


South Dakota
$332,000
68,176
4.87


Tennessee
$385,000
58,292
6.60


Texas
$362,000
62,586
5.78


Utah
$545,000
59,457
9.17


Vermont
$390,000
63,039
6.19


Virginia
$445,000
68,985
6.45


Washington
$621,000
75,332
8.24


West Virginia
$297,000
49,993
5.94


Wisconsin
$307,000
61,475
4.99


Wyoming
$323,000
73,248
4.41

[Doug Garson]

"The median household income in Vancouver is $86,988, which translates to being able to afford a purchase price of $347,000 with an insured mortgage or $411,000 with an uninsured mortgage. Meanwhile, the average price of a Vancouver home is $1,211,700. "

That makes the ratio 13.9, well north of 10 and West Vancouver where the real money is, the ratio is about 17. But that pales in comparison to Shanghai China at 43.8 which explains why so much of Vancouver's real estate is owned by Chinese nationals which is one of the reasons Vancouver real estate values are so high.

[Lawrence Duckworth]

today's average homes are nearly double the square footage of those built in the 70s. Modern homes often feature more bathrooms, ..elaborate kitchens, ..and outdoor living spaces. ....some friends recently remodeled their kitchen, and their cost was four times what we paid for our first home...:eek: there's a slew of other reasons young people are screwed when it comes to buying a new home especially first time buyers.. and you guys know why :mad:


wow, I just read the OP :D no where near on topic...

[Zachary Hoyt]

I would not have been able to afford a median priced home, but I was able to buy a house in a tax auction and completely repair it. I'm self employed and have no credit history at all, so a mortgage was not going to happen. I've spent about $95,000 at this point, which includes a new septic system, all new plumbing and wiring, complete spray foam insulation, all new windows, doors, woodwork, flooring, some roofs, a woodshed, a new 16x32 workshop, two wood stoves and a mini split, new porches, new cabinets in the kitchen, etc. I spent all the money I had saved up beforehand and a bit more over time, but now at age 37 I have a ~900 sf house that is largely new inside and all paid for, and I only have to pay taxes, insurance, electricity and internet. This would not have been financially feasible if I had dependents, unless I had a more lucrative career, or if I didn't have the skills to do most of the work myself (other than the septic system and spray foam).

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I would not have been able to afford a median priced home, but I was able to buy a house in a tax auction and completely repair it. I'm self employed and have no credit history at all, so a mortgage was not going to happen. I've spent about $95,000 at this point, which includes a new septic system, all new plumbing and wiring, complete spray foam insulation, all new windows, doors, woodwork, flooring, some roofs, a woodshed, a new 16x32 workshop, two wood stoves and a mini split, new porches, new cabinets in the kitchen, etc. I spent all the money I had saved up beforehand and a bit more over time, but now at age 37 I have a ~900 sf house that is largely new inside and all paid for, and I only have to pay taxes, insurance, electricity and internet. This would not have been financially feasible if I had dependents, unless I had a more lucrative career, or if I didn't have the skills to do most of the work myself (other than the septic system and spray foam).

Zach is a good poster child for the "I Don't Believe" thread. If a person loves their craft they will make it work.

[Doug Garson]

wow, I just read the OP :D no where near on topic...
Well, this is the "Off Topic" section.:cool:

[Bill George]

When I suggested moving some place or state less expensive like Iowa I got laughed out of another Thread. House prices for housing costs are taken from the major cities. I can guarantee you that you can find lower cost houses by moving... houses are not going for $300k in Wyoming or Alaska rural areas or smaller towns.

Get a skill. I have been working at skilled jobs all my life and most were Union. Both my sons also, we all have nice houses my youngest built most of his $350k new one, before that he remodeled two others for a healthy profit,,, yes we all have skills. I make more in retirement than most of the people I know working full time jobs. I was Union Refrigeration Pipefitter running mostly service and control work and also a licensed Master Electrician. Oh and I taught HVAC the last 12 years before retiring. In the JPG posted below those wages are higher today... but you get the idea, work with your hands and brain.

[Tom M King]

Back a little bit on topic, when I was involved with a Boy Scout Troop, we had a wide range of backgrounds that the kids came from. Some from educated families to some from families who could not read. From my experience, I can say that well educated families are educating their children better than educated families did when I grew up. Uneducated are about the same.

I grew up in a very rural county in Virginia where we had one High School and a few Elementary schools, so kids from all backgrounds went to the same school. All my friends who ended up with PhDs came from families that had gone to college. These kids from educated families came to the first grade not reading better than anyone else, but they always got what they could get out of school and always had good grades. The kids from uneducated families always struggled. I always expected the better educated kids got help and motivation from home. The gap grows wider.

These days, the very well educated people my age have children that they read to a lot and their kids could read very well when they were four years old. These children had a running start in school, ended up getting scholarships and higher education with very good jobs to start with. The ones from families who couldn't read ended up getting through school somehow but are still struggling decades later and hoping for someone to "give" them a high paying job.

I had one parent who finished high school, but somehow managed to get through school pretty easily and was lucky. We also read to our children a lot when they were young, probably at least 20 minutes a night when they were old enough to look at the book and listen, to longer as they grew. Both are pretty successful now and can do what they want to.

One problem we saw with the young guys starting in Boy Scouts was that they weren't comfortable talking to people who weren't their age. We went on a lot of camping trips and when we stopped at a fast food place on the way on long trips, they were required to order their own food. Most had not ever done this by age 11 or 12 and it took some effort to get them to the point that they could do it.

As leaders we saw and discussed that every year the boys that came in were less and less capable than last years boys, and most leaders gradually just dropped away from the job. Even the newer, younger leaders that came in were less and less capable of doing simple tasks like pitching a tent.

I could talk for hours about personal experiences, including working with guys who no one else would hire when I was building new houses. Out of the 30 or so that went through my "program", several are in jail, a couple shot and killed, and really only a couple of success stories over 33 years. One that took pride in never working on Mondays, changed his ways and is now married to a Nurse with three well behaved little girls. He owns 3 dump trucks, has every building license there is, and thanks me with high praises whenever we run into each other every few years.

It's a hard path to get out from a poor start. People who can't read think that being able to make out words on a page is knowing how to read. They will never understand.

As far as personal experience in owning a house, I/we lived in a tent during Summers for several years, and in the house I was building for sale through cold weather. The phenomenal, gorgeous woman that I've been with for 46 years and married to for 43 years stuck with me for a few of those years in a tent in Summer. We built a small house out of scraps, leftovers, and recycled materials around the time that we were married. We thought we'd stay here for a while and build a "real" house when we could. We're still here and raised two successful, capable children who have been grown and gone for a couple of decades now out of it. I have added onto the house a few times since then. We now have accumulated what is our dream place, and a lot of other people tell us theirs too, and I'm working on getting it to support itself to leave it to our kids.

[Alan Rutherford]

... all paid for....

Whether you're talking about houses, cars, cell phones or something else, that's a great feature.

[Pat Germain]

Back a little bit on topic, when I was involved with a Boy Scout Troop, we had a wide range of backgrounds that the kids came from. Some from educated families to some from families who could not read. From my experience, I can say that well educated families are educating their children better than educated families did when I grew up. Uneducated are about the same.

I grew up in a very rural county in Virginia where we had one High School and a few Elementary schools, so kids from all backgrounds went to the same school. All my friends who ended up with PhDs came from families that had gone to college. These kids from educated families came to the first grade not reading better than anyone else, but they always got what they could get out of school and always had good grades. The kids from uneducated families always struggled. I always expected the better educated kids got help and motivation from home. The gap grows wider.

These days, the very well educated people my age have children that they read to a lot and their kids could read very well when they were four years old. These children had a running start in school, ended up getting scholarships and higher education with very good jobs to start with. The ones from families who couldn't read ended up getting through school somehow but are still struggling decades later and hoping for someone to "give" them a high paying job.

I had one parent who finished high school, but somehow managed to get through school pretty easily and was lucky. We also read to our children a lot when they were young, probably at least 20 minutes a night when they were old enough to look at the book and listen, to longer as they grew. Both are pretty successful now and can do what they want to.

One problem we saw with the young guys starting in Boy Scouts was that they weren't comfortable talking to people who weren't their age. We went on a lot of camping trips and when we stopped at a fast food place on the way on long trips, they were required to order their own food. Most had not ever done this by age 11 or 12 and it took some effort to get them to the point that they could do it.

As leaders we saw and discussed that every year the boys that came in were less and less capable than last years boys, and most leaders gradually just dropped away from the job. Even the newer, younger leaders that came in were less and less capable of doing simple tasks like pitching a tent.

I could talk for hours about personal experiences, including working with guys who no one else would hire when I was building new houses. Out of the 30 or so that went through my "program", several are in jail, a couple shot and killed, and really only a couple of success stories over 33 years. One that took pride in never working on Mondays, changed his ways and is now married to a Nurse with three well behaved little girls. He owns 3 dump trucks, has every building license there is, and thanks me with high praises whenever we run into each other every few years.

It's a hard path to get out from a poor start. People who can't read think that being able to make out words on a page is knowing how to read. They will never understand.

As far as personal experience in owning a house, I/we lived in a tent during Summers for several years, and in the house I was building for sale through cold weather. The phenomenal, gorgeous woman that I've been with for 46 years and married to for 43 years stuck with me for a few of those years in a tent in Summer. We built a small house out of scraps, leftovers, and recycled materials around the time that we were married. We thought we'd stay here for a while and build a "real" house when we could. We're still here and raised two successful, capable children who have been grown and gone for a couple of decades now out of it. I have added onto the house a few times since then. We now have accumulated what is our dream place, and a lot of other people tell us theirs too, and I'm working on getting it to support itself to leave it to our kids.

I observed many of the same things when I was in the Navy. It seemed half the guys in my Boot Camp company were functionally illiterate. I can only assume someone fudged their ASVAB scores so they could get into the Navy. You could ask these guys to name the three parts of the fire triangle and they could correctly answer. Then they would take a written test and get it wrong. I couldn't figure out why this was happening. Then it became apparent they simply couldn't read and understand the test which was in front of them. When I got aboard ships, it was these same guys who were always struggling to get promoted because they couldn't pass the Seaman's test. These were the same guys who were always in trouble and ending up at Captain's Mast. Some got kicked out. Some just left the Navy after their enlistment was up and went back to their home towns. No doubt some ended up homeless.

[Lee DeRaud]

Many good things can come from sweet potatoes, but I'm not sure I even know enough people to burn through 160lbs of them before they go bad.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Many good things can come from sweet potatoes, but I'm not sure I even know enough people to burn through 160lbs of them before they go bad.

160 lbs, sweet or regular potato, smacks of BS to me too. . The missing dollar riddle was taught to my boyhood friend in college as a mathematical anomaly.

Missing dollar riddle - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_dollar_riddle)

[Tom M King]

They'll keep all Winter in a root cellar, but I don't think I've eaten 140 pounds in my entire life.

[Doug Garson]

I think I may have the solution. :cool: It takes 10 to 15 pounds of sweet potatoes to make one bottle (750 ml) of vodka. So, allowing for a few sweet potato pies, Bruce may have a case of Vodka in his shop. Of course he says it's only for making shellac but maybe......?
https://www.outsideonline.com/food/your-next-favorite-drink-brewed-sweet-potatoes/

[Lawrence Duckworth]

I couldn’t convert this in my head but gooogle says 160 lbeez of sweet potatoes is equal to 3.2 bushel

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A root cellar is on my to do list.

[Lee DeRaud]

I think I may have the solution. :cool: It takes 10 to 15 pounds of sweet potatoes to make one bottle (750 ml) of vodka. So, allowing for a few sweet potato pies, Bruce may have a case of Vodka in his shop.
Works for me: compact storage, never goes bad... :)

[Lawrence Duckworth]

so... can anyone here in their head, figure out how much 3.2 bushels of sweet potatoes would cost?

[Doug Garson]

Well if 3.2 bushels is 160 pounds per your earlier post, and at $0.25/pound per the OP, I'd say $40.

[Lawrence Duckworth]

Well if 3.2 bushels is 160 pounds per your earlier post, and at $0.25/pound per the OP, I'd say $40.


Good job Doug!!

[Doug Garson]

Good job Doug!!
Do I win a prize? I'll take a bottle of the Vodka. :p

[Patty Hann]

Do I win a prize? I'll take a bottle of the Vodka. :p

Since all of us learned our multiplication tables in third grade I thought the question was a joke.
Now if the question had been "Integrate the volume of the bushel basket in terms d/dx of f(x)", well, that might have been a bit of challenge to do in one's head :rolleyes:

[Bill Dufour]

1895 Kansas eighth grade graduation test. I can not do #2,3 and 7 on the math test.

This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina, KS, USA. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS, and reprinted by the Salina Journal. 8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS -1895
Grammar (Time Limit - one hour)


Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no Modifications.
Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of lie, play and run.
Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.


Arithmetic (Time Limit - 1.25 hours)


Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts/bushel, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at 20 per metre?
Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.


U.S. History(Time Limit - 45 minutes)


Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
Show the territorial growth of the United States.
Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.


Orthography (Time Limit - one hour)


What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?
What are elementary sounds? How classified?
What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
Give four substitutes for caret 'u.'
Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.
Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup.
Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the
sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.


Geography (Time Limit - one hour)


What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
Describe the mountains of North America.
Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
Name all the republics of Europe and give the capital of each.
Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.

Also notice that the exam took six hours to complete.
Bill D
https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/p_test/1895_Eightgr_test.htm

[Bill Howatt]

Maybe we can do an analog of the using calculators, spell-check, and other modern tools.
How about:
Don't use a planer; use a hand-plane, don't use a table (or other powered) saw; use a hand saw, don't use a router; use specialty hand-planes, carving knives and sandpaper.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Almost 30 yrs ago, I went to a big amusement park outside of Cincinnati Ohio. I was warned by a person, to watch every cashier closely. All day long, at nearly every register at nearly every concession, the totals were wrong. Sometimes low and about 60% of the time, too high. Toward the end of the day, I was getting very tired of it. My kids wanted a drink and I went to a stand and ordered a single medium coke for them to share. Price on the board was $1.70. The cashier rang it up and asked for $7.72. I said no way, for a single soda could the tax be 6 dollars. His response, "that is what the register says." I said get your supervisor. cashier suddenly says there is no reason to be hostile and says he will call security, that there is a line and I am holding things up. I said I am not moving, get your supervisor. The supervisor =, another kid, maybe a year older comes over and says what is the problem. I explained that I ordered a medium soda which according to the menu board is $1.70 plus tax and that the cashier wanted me to pay $7.72. There is no way that there is $6.02 tax. He looked at the register receipt and said the same stupid thing. I said call a security guard. A middle aged guy in a uniform shows up. The cashier says I refuse to pay or move. The supervisor says I am creating a scene and disrupting business. The guard comes to me and I explain using pencil and paper to show the math. Tell him these guys are obviously in business for themselves and should be arrested for theft. The guard laughed and said, "they aren't that smart" He goes back to the supervisor at the register and tells him to void the sale and ring it up again. This time the register totals $1.93 with the tax. The supervisor gets all apologetic. Guard asked my name, address and number. Two weeks later I got a free family pass in the mail with an apology from the park. Never used it.

two years ago, my wife and I were Christmas shopping at Walmart. They had plush blankets with Halloween designs on them marked 25 cents each in the clearance aisle. Dirt cheap for the dogs to use so we got 4 of them. Went to the check out and my wife noticed as they were rung up, the little screen said 4 for 25 cents. She tried to tell the cashier that they were 25 cents each. The response, that is not what the register rings. OK

So back in August a windstorm knocked a tree down against the house. There was some roof damage and ceiling damage in the master bedroom from the leaky roof. I called the insurance agent the next day to put them on notice. Expected the tree, the roof and drywall work and possibly replace insulation in the crawlspace would be a few thousand. So I took photots and texted them to the agent. The tree guy took down the tree, cut it up and removed it for $200. The roofing company crew of 3 guys came out at 3 pm on a Friday afternoon and had it fixed in an hour, using shingles that were left over when the house was built. Got the bill a few hours later in an email. - $400. A dry wall company sent two guys to do the dry wall and check the insulation. They pulled down the damaged drywall. Told me I was lucky because the way the house was constructed limited the damage to a narrow area. no insulation problem, all bone dry now. They fixed the dry wall and painted. looks like new. Four days later I got a bill for $360. So I have bills totaling $1,060 and a deductible of $1,000, so I tell the agent to forget about the claim and explain it was almost exactly the deductible which I did not expect. well last week I got a check in the mail from the insurance company for $4,400 for storm damage. I took the check to the agent. She said she called the company and told them to stop the claim. She gets on the phone and called the adjuster. Adjuster says, once they open a claim, they have to pay it and cannot close it. Keep the money. HUH? Where id they get the dollar figure. Oh that was based on our in house adjuster looking at the photos. The agent hands the check back to me, shrugs and says, take a vacation. I looked up the President of the company, called his office and got the address and sent the check, along with an explanation to him. Asking him to look into such a goofy outcome.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Some states have strange and varied sale taxes. No tax on unprepared food in PA, no tax on paper plates, but there is a sales tax on regular reusable plates. In PA there is no tax on candy, when my ex wife ran a retail store in DC, the sales tax differred according to what the item was. There was a special higher sales tax on candy, (10% as I recall. When in Virginia, there was sales tax on restaurant meals and carry out, but some counties had additional sales taxes on such food. So if I purchased a meal at the McDonalds a few blocks from my house there was a 12% sales tax, but across the intersection at the Popeyes (another county) the tax was only 5% In Virginia, IRRC, there is a general 5% sales tax, but towns can have add on sales taxes, so on Chincoteague island the minimum sales tax is 10%, higher for restaurants and motels. So folks who live there go off island to buy big ticket items.

[John Stankus]

Almost 30 yrs ago, I went to a big amusement park outside of Cincinnati Ohio. I was warned by a person, to watch every cashier closely. All day long, at nearly every register at nearly every concession, the totals were wrong. Sometimes low and about 60% of the time, too high. Toward the end of the day, I was getting very tired of it. My kids wanted a drink and I went to a stand and ordered a single medium coke for them to share. Price on the board was $1.70. The cashier rang it up and asked for $7.72. I said no way, for a single soda could the tax be 6 dollars. His response, "that is what the register says." I said get your supervisor. cashier suddenly says there is no reason to be hostile and says he will call security, that there is a line and I am holding things up. I said I am not moving, get your supervisor. The supervisor =, another kid, maybe a year older comes over and says what is the problem. I explained that I ordered a medium soda which according to the menu board is $1.70 plus tax and that the cashier wanted me to pay $7.72. There is no way that there is $6.02 tax. He looked at the register receipt and said the same stupid thing. I said call a security guard. A middle aged guy in a uniform shows up. The cashier says I refuse to pay or move. The supervisor says I am creating a scene and disrupting business. The guard comes to me and I explain using pencil and paper to show the math. Tell him these guys are obviously in business for themselves and should be arrested for theft. The guard laughed and said, "they aren't that smart" He goes back to the supervisor at the register and tells him to void the sale and ring it up again. This time the register totals $1.93 with the tax. The supervisor gets all apologetic. Guard asked my name, address and number. Two weeks later I got a free family pass in the mail with an apology from the park. Never used it.


I don't know what the Ohio sales tax was but $7.72/$7.10 (transposing the 1 and the 7) gives about 8.7 %, the $1.93/$1.70 would be about 13% (which seems a bit high). Digit transposition in a fast paced spot is a reasonable explanation. Now the response to pointing out the error...well that is another thing. Considering that a single soda would not be an uncommon order, after the first hundred or so you would think they would know the price with tax. I recall a quote that went something like "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

John

[Brian Elfert]

The sales tax on restaurants in downtown Minneapolis is now over 12%! The city of Minneapolis added an additional 3% sales tax in downtown years ago knowing that the majority of diners in downtown don't live in the city. Before COVID, there were probably 75,000 people eating lunch out every weekday downtown, and most did not live in Minneapolis.

[Curt Harms]

I think there's a big misunderstanding about "No Child Left Behind". I've heard many people say that means students are promoted to the next grade with no consideration for their abilities. As I understand it, No Child Left Behind is a federal governmant program where students are regularly tested and if the test scores are consistently low, the federal government takes over the school.

I'm not saying students who are promoted to the next grade have actually mastered all the skills from their current grade. I'm saying whether or not students are advanced to the next grade has nothing to do with No Child Left Behind.

Personally, I attribute most of our country's current problems to perpetually underfunded public education, but a detailed discussion about that would not be permitted here.

More funding !=! better education in my observations. You're right though, that would turn political in a heart beat.

[Jim Koepke]

There have been a few times when I have given a cashier a $10 bill and they gave me change for a twenty. Some would give me an argument about how they would give anyone the wrong change. They were very reluctant until I said something about their drawer coming up short at the end of the day.

I remember the old days when a cashier would count change back to a customer. Most of the time now they just hand over a few bills and coins and don't say anything.

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

Before everyone had credit cards the big on street thefts were often from people who called themselves “ quick change artists”.
They always seemed so nice, in a bind and in hurry to do something important. ‘‘twas credit cards that stopped that”.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Before everyone had credit cards the big on street thefts were often from people who called themselves “ quick change artists”.They always seemed so nice, in a bind and in hurry to do something important. ‘‘twas credit cards that stopped that”.I googled "quick change artist".Léa Kyle came up.Thank you very much for a very enjoyable hour! :D

[Stan Calow]

The last quick change artist I encountered was at the Fenway Park ticket office. Shorted me a ten in change. I will never forget the smirk on his face.

I believe merchants are more concerned about their employees stealing than customers. When I worked fast food (cash days), if someone had an overage in their drawer, it was because they were building up a "bank" to be skimmed later. I sometimes saw owners doing the same thing in small shops (not ringing up sales) to avoid taxes. Computers and credit cards help cut down on that.

[Jim Koepke]

I googled "quick change artist".Léa Kyle came up.Thank you very much for a very enjoyable hour! :D

In one of his movies W.C. Fields had a way of making it look like he was giving back too much change when he was short changing people.

Once, at a dinner stop, while traveling by Greyhound a cashier was short changing everyone. People ahead of me were catching her and sure enough, she tried to get me. She would have likely done better if she held up for a few in the line and then restarted.

jtk

[Pat Germain]

More funding !=! better education in my observations. You're right though, that would turn political in a heart beat.

One would think the schools should get enough money to buy paper and pencils. They don't. So they hit up the parents who often don't bring anything. So a young teacher has to use money from her meager annual salary to buy paper and pencils along with facial tissue and many other items.

[Brian Elfert]

One would think the schools should get enough money to buy paper and pencils. They don't. So they hit up the parents who often don't bring anything. So a young teacher has to use money from her meager annual salary to buy paper and pencils along with facial tissue and many other items.

Most school districts have added quite a few admin staff over the past decade or two. Now, some of the new admin staff are to deal with new state and federal regulations, but if they could cut one or two administrative staff that could increase the classroom supplies budget by quite a bit. Some of the stuff teachers buy might be to supply individual students, but most would be classroom supplies the school doesn't have money for. Supplies like white board markers, stuff to hang on the walls, and the like. Some schools also limit how much paper teachers can use for copies for tests, handouts, and the like so teachers might have to bring in their own paper.

I graduated high school in 1990 and my parents always had to provide me with stuff like crayons, notebooks, folders, pens/pencils, construction paper, writing paper, and other supplies.

[Brian Elfert]

School districts and other government entities always cut the services that directly impact the taxpayers first when money is tight. They hope that taxpayers will allow tax increases when services that directly impact them are cut. School districts will cut teachers, sports, and other things that directly impact students instead of cutting behind the scenes. The schools know that a levy referendum is more likely to pass if the money will be used to hire back teachers and bring back sports. Cities will cut things like road repair, firefighters, police officers, snow plowing, and other services that directly impact taxpayers. They rarely cut on the back end where most taxpayers wouldn't even know government employees were laid off.

Cities with full time council members often have administrative assistants. It makes more sense to make the council members share assistants rather than cutting services to taxpayers.

[Patty Hann]

School districts and other government entities always cut the services that directly impact the taxpayers first when money is tight. They hope that taxpayers will allow tax increases when services that directly impact them are cut. School districts will cut teachers, sports, and other things that directly impact students instead of cutting behind the scenes. The schools know that a levy referendum is more likely to pass if the money will be used to hire back teachers and bring back sports. Cities will cut things like road repair, firefighters, police officers, snow plowing, and other services that directly impact taxpayers. They rarely cut on the back end where most taxpayers wouldn't even know government employees were laid off.

Cities with full time council members often have administrative assistants. It makes more sense to make the council members share assistants rather than cutting services to taxpayers.

Happened here this November.
School districts are so used to asking for money from the voters and getting it, they were shocked when in about half the districts the "Increase the spending" measures DID NOT PASS.
Some were really close counts, some weren't.
The message the voters sent was: "You don't need more money. You need to better manage/budget the money you have." Which is true... there's not a little fat and deadwood in PS administration, at least where I am.

[Lee DeRaud]

I graduated high school in 1990 and my parents always had to provide me with stuff like crayons, notebooks, folders, pens/pencils, construction paper, writing paper, and other supplies.

they tell me I graduated in 72 ... but I don't remember it :confused:
I graduated in '68 and actually remember quite a bit of it, but I don't recall needing any crayons or construction paper those four years... :D

[Stan Calow]

Quit bragging, Lee.

[Patty Hann]

Quit bragging, Lee.

'Cause Lee KNEW how to stay inside the lines when HE colored stuff :D

[Brian Elfert]

Happened here this November.
School districts are so used to asking for money from the voters and getting it, they were shocked when in about half the districts the "Increase the spending" measures DID NOT PASS.
Some were really close counts, some weren't.
The message the voters sent was: "You don't need more money. You need to better manage/budget the money you have." Which is true... there's not a little fat and deadwood in PS administration, at least where I am.

The school districts "hope" to get more money from taxpayers by cutting teachers, and other expenses, that directly impact students. It doesn't always happen.

[Rick Potter]

I remember hearing that Ike won the presidency while at school, and I was carrying my own pencils and paper...5th grade maybe. Graduated in '60. Schools never provided essentials in my school years. Cannot remember Kindergarten, maybe crayons and pics to fill in there.

[Lee DeRaud]

Schools never provided essentials in my school years.
Yup. The obvious exceptions were shop and science classes, although we usually had to pay for shop project materials.

"Read chapter 9 and don't forget to bring in a cup of mercury fulminate for tomorrow's experiment!" :D

[Edwin Santos]

I've waited to see if anyone else found irony in an original post mocking the kids working at the grocery store for their lack of arithmetic skills, yet misspells amalgamated in the post title!
People in glass houses.... :)

[Bill Howatt]

Good one!
However, my giant, biological-computer, brain did an automatic spell-check correction before passing it on to the processing core.

[Patty Hann]

I've waited to see if anyone else found irony in an original post mocking the kids working at the grocery store for their lack of arithmetic skills, yet misspells amalgamated in the post title!
People in glass houses.... :)

I caught it (always class champion in Spelling Bees :D) but chose not to say anything (discretion being the better part of valor ;)).
When it comes to "forum disagreements" I'm pretty circumspect in choosing the hill on which I'm willing to die.

[Pat Germain]

When I was in elementary school, middle school and high school in the 1970s and 1980s, I was never required to bring any school supplies to share with my classmates. Every parent I talk with today says they must provide lots of school supplies which are shared among the students.

[Derek Meyer]

I always remember doing the back-to-school shopping with my mom, loading up on supplies like pencils, paper, crayons, etc., every year. We weren't asked to share or buy for others, but were expected to supply our own. For shop class, there was an extra fee that paid for the leatherworking and drafting portion of the class, and for the woodworking portion, we had to supply our own material. I was lucky that my dad owned a local lumberyard/Ace Hardware store at the time, so I wasn't limited on what I could choose to build.

I have a good friend who is a teacher in the Boise, ID area, and last year, he made a list of supplies he needed for his classroom and shared it with his Facebook friends. My wife and I elected to purchase a few of the items for him, such as large packs of pens and pencils. It does show just how times have changed in the education system.

[Bruce Wrenn]

They'll keep all Winter in a root cellar, but I don't think I've eaten 140 pounds in my entire life.Sweet potatoes like to be kept above fifty-five degrees F. Keep shop around 60 degrees all winter, so store boxes in there. Unfortunately, because of low winter humidity levels, they tend to dry out a bit. In last few weeks, used last of 2022 crop to make sweet potato pie, casseroles, and candied yams for several meals and covered dinners. In addition to the 160# for us, I also bought a box for daughter in WV, and two boxes for use in Thanksgiving baskets from church for less fortunate families.

[Bill Dufour]

This sounds like a high school algebra problem in the making. If Bruce buys 160 pounds of sweet potatoes how many....
Bill D

[Patty Hann]

This sounds like a high school algebra problem in the making. If Bruce buys 160 pounds of sweet potatoes ....
Bill D
... and then he leaves the store traveling north at 30 mph to meet his wife who left their house (40 miles away) 10 minutes earlier and is traveling south at 35 mph....

[Doug Garson]

and the question is "what is the name of their dog?" :confused:

[Lee DeRaud]

If a chicken and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half,
how long does it take a one-legged monkey to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?

[Bruce Wrenn]

and the question is "what is the name of their dog?" :confused: Actually the question is "What is Bruce's name?"

[Doug Garson]

Actually the question is "What is Bruce's name?"
Bruce who? :confused:

[Zachary Hoyt]

Actually the question is "What is Bruce's name?"
This is a trick question. Bruce's name is clearly Bruce.

[Bill Dufour]

Et Tu Bruce?
I think his name is really Robert. As in Robert the Bruce.
Bill D.

[Patty Hann]

Et Tu Bruce?
I think his name is really Robert. As in Robert the Bruce.
Bill D.

Well, if he got 160 pounds of sweet potatoes for about $40, that was a steal, so he is Bruce the Robber(t)

[Bruce Wrenn]

Well, if he got 160 pounds of sweet potatoes for about $40, that was a steal, so he is Bruce the Robber(t)Patty, North Carolina is the #1 producer of sweet potatoes. Canners only want a certain size, so rest is considered waste, unless you can establish a market for it. Two local grocery chains (Food Lion, and Harris Teeter) almost always run sweet potatoes the week and a half before Thanksgiving for $0.25 per pound. These are larger potatoes than what they sell during the rest of year, plus they are "uncured.)

[Patty Hann]

Patty, North Carolina is the #1 producer of sweet potatoes. Canners only want a certain size, so rest is considered waste, unless you can establish a market for it. Two local grocery chains (Food Lion, and Harris Teeter) almost always run sweet potatoes the week and a half before Thanksgiving for $0.25 per pound. These are larger potatoes than what they sell during the rest of year, plus they are "uncured.)

Sweet potatoes here in AZ ... we are lucky to see them at slightly under $1 per lb and that is only around Thanksgiving and Easter.
And those would be the "unculled" ones, not the picture perfect uniform size ones at most food stores.
The "presentable" pretty ones are at least $1 per pound and at other times of the year maybe $1.50 per lb.

I had to look up "uncured" (and "cured") sweet potatoes as I did not know what that meant.
So if you buy them uncured, then when you store them, they are "curing"? So they taste better?

[Mike Soaper]

511439

Seems Bruce's Yams are actually sweet potatoes

edit: I Yam What I Yam