Hammer K3 accessories?

[Thomas Crawford]

Closing in on finalizing my order, currently looking at this:

K3 Winner 48x48

- sliding table width extension
- handwheel with blade angle
- 300mm diamond blade
- mitre fence and mitre guide
- telescopic extension for crosscut fence

I'm planning on a Bora 3550 for the mobile base instead of their mobility kit.

The only remaining options I see are a longer crosscut fence (this one comes with 900mm), crosscut fence stops, edging shoe.

No scoring blade, no outrigger. I rarely use sheet goods so I can cut them down with a tracksaw into manageable pieces when I need them.

I'll need a dado stack and found a Forest Dado King to order.

[Aaron Inami]

I see that you are not including a scoring blade. Even though you are cutting down sheets with a track saw, the main reason behind a scoring blade is to prevent chip-out when cutting plywood or melamine. The chip-out can actually look pretty bad, depending on what material you are cutting. But it's up to you.

If you want a longer crosscut fence than the 900mm, I would just recommend going up to the 79x48 model which includes an outrigger system.

You might have challenges trying to use that crosscut fence extension without any outrigger frame support. I don't have this saw, so I cannot comment for sure.

[Erik Loza]

Tommy, you may already be aware of this but the diamond-coated sawblade will require a special riving knife, due to how thin it is.

Erik

[Thomas Crawford]

Tommy, you may already be aware of this but the diamond-coated sawblade will require a special riving knife, due to how thin it is.

Erik

thanks, did not know this - better to just use normal blades?

[Aaron Inami]

The diamond saw blade is kind of a one-blade solution. If you have to switch it out, then you have to deal with different size kerfs. This means that your crosscut stop and rip fence would need to be re-aligned for the different thickness blade.

I would just go for standard blades. I recommend the Tenryu blades, which can be easily gotten from Amazon with quick shipping. They are actually much quieter than the Felder blades:

Rip blade:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003O3J2V8/

Crosscut blade (which makes an excellent cut):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003O3CYEK/


Combination blade (if you want to go this route):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003O3F3FW/

The Tenryu blades are all 0.128" thick (which is slightly different than Felder's 3.2mm = 0.126").

[Thomas Crawford]

Thanks Aaron, that's helpful. I'm going to drop the diamond blade.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with opting for "normal" blades with the typical .125" kerf...it provides you with a lot of options, utility and optimization opportunities.

Don't underestimate the utility of having the outrigger. While you may not use it much nor keep it on your machine full time, that extra support can be really helpful for all kinds of cross cutting activity. I'm primarily a solid stock worker, too, but my outrigger stays on all the time now in the new shop. You can hang it on the wall when not in use. (I hang mine on the end of my right-side table, actually, in the rare situation where I need it off the saw) What's really important here is that you assemble your order not just for "today" but also for longer term utility...having to add things like the outrigger later can and will be a whole lot more expensive. It's best to bundle while you are negotiating your "deal" up front.

[Aaron Inami]

I agree with Jim on the outrigger support. Actually, if you have room, I would just recommend getting the 79x48 model. It's actually on a really good sale right now ($2100 off). With current sale prices, the 79x48 is only $1200 more than the 48x48. However, that $1200 buys you a whole lot:

- longer 78" sliding table
- outrigger support for longer crosscuts
- longer crosscut fence
- mechanical scoring unit

The scoring unit itself is a $532 option. The outrigger table is $1100. so the upgrade essentially pays for itself.

The 48x48 has a 48" sliding table. However, be aware that once you add clamps and crosscut fence, your cutting length is reduced down to something like 38-40". That's not a long cut capacity.

[Derek Cohen]

Closing in on finalizing my order, currently looking at this:

K3 Winner 48x48

- sliding table width extension
- handwheel with blade angle
- 300mm diamond blade
- mitre fence and mitre guide
- telescopic extension for crosscut fence

I'm planning on a Bora 3550 for the mobile base instead of their mobility kit.

The only remaining options I see are a longer crosscut fence (this one comes with 900mm), crosscut fence stops, edging shoe.

No scoring blade, no outrigger. I rarely use sheet goods so I can cut them down with a tracksaw into manageable pieces when I need them.

I'll need a dado stack and found a Forest Dado King to order.

Hi Thomas

I have the 48"x48" K3. The reason I went with this size was space. However, a longer slider wagon would not be of much interest since I do not work with sheet goods (and on rare occasions, if I did, I would use a tracksaw). Working only with hardwoods, I do not have a scoring blade.

The diamond blade as been described in superlatives by the few who have one. It is intended to do it all. Personally, I use a quality combination blade for everything, although I do have dedicated rip- and crosscut blades. Only use 12" blades.

The standard crosscut fence meets 99.5% of my needs. I do not have an outrigger, and the crosscut fence is at the start of the slider wagon. I think this is more ergonomic as it offers support when pushing.

If you wish to add another fence, get a short rip fence for use as a depth stop. I use both the slider (with a parallel guide) and the rip fence for ripping.

The outfeed space is filled in with a router table. The main rip fence has a micro adjuster, and this is also used for the router fence.

The K3 is stationary in my workshop and so the mobility kit surfices.

Check out this page for the accessories I built for my K3:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Powered%20Tools%20and%20Machinery/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Wilkins]

Another vote for the outrigger set-up and scoring option. I don't use the outrigger often, so it hangs on the wall ready for action. I have a short stroke slider so I can easily cross-cut sheet goods and long boards with plenty of support. For long rips on plywood I break out the track saw or remove the cross-cut fence and rip like a standard cabinet saw.
With Felder/Hammer I would suggest ordering any options at the same time you order the machine. Lead times for items not normally kept in stock can be long; I ordered a miter gauge and 900 mm cross-cut fence for my Hammer F3 shaper in early February. It arrived mid-September.
Good luck with your decision.

[Thomas Crawford]

Well I got one in stock, so if I want the outrigger later its the same price. I'm going to try it without it. Hopefully will have it in a couple weeks tops. Excited to use it.

If anyone else is interested in the 48x48 K3 Winner there is also one in transit that currently is unsold.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I would strongly suggest carefully reading Derek's post and checking out his website with details on his saw. There is much wisdom, there.

I have the 78" table and am often finding it too long (in the way) or too short (I prefer to keep the crosscut fence at the start of the wagon, like Derek, and with the outrigger on in that configuration, the travel length is <48").

The scoring unit is invaluable for any sort of plywood. Even if you're just making shop jigs, the perfect, chip-free edge is a huge benefit. I would never go back to not having it.

I don't know how useful the long fence is without the outrigger. That would be a lot of wood cantilevered off the wagon.

[Thomas Crawford]

I'd appreciate any pointers to good F&F jig instructions/usage if you have a website or video that was helpful.

[Aaron Inami]

There are a variety of ways to make Fritz & Franz jig. Here's a couple things you can look at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoAPVQ2sqMc

https://groups.io/g/felderownersgroup/topic/94321465#125689

[Thomas Crawford]

Does anyone use the box-joint type blades instead of a dado stack on the K3?

Something like this -> https://www.forrestblades.com/saw-blades-for-finger-joints-square-cut-box-joints-rabbets-grooves-and-dovetails/4-piece-finger-joint-set-plus-bladerunner-case-3-16-1-4-5-16-3-8-cuts/

[Chris Parks]

The first thing I would add is the rip fence with a fine adjuster. The hammer K3 does not have DRO/s available as an option but it is now possible to add one for about $100 and combined with the fine adjuster it is a great tool to have. The extrusion the fine adjuster uses to hold the measuring tape makes it a simple job to add the magnetic read tape for the DRO

I have the diamond blade but it is a bit of one trick pony, it cuts with very little chip out on melamine etc but it does not do anything except straight cuts well due to flexing of the blade. I also have a 5mm thick blade and if I am doing a lot of mitre cuts where blade flex might be an issue it gets used and it does an excellent job.

If you want to add a DRO don't use a Wixey as things have moved along and there are now far better options for way less cost. Here is a link to show adding a DRO to a fine adjuster fence on a Felder but the fence is the same as supplied on a K3 as an option. The video is some years old and that DRO was and is quite expensive, now there are cheaper ones available that give the same result.

(2) Digital Retrofit on Tablesaw Rip fence - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4BU1pLqTmU&list=PLEb0Ut6A7deb0kZz_SKUmml6zmL9-7roS&index=23&t=6s)

[Derek Cohen]

I'd appreciate any pointers to good F&F jig instructions/usage if you have a website or video that was helpful.

Thomas, the traditional F&F will not work well on a slider with the crosscut fence at the start of the slider wagon. The original design called for fence to act as a stop. I began this way, but found it a chore to install and remove a second fence at the end of the slider wagon.

The solution was to create a "reverse F&F". This uses the crosscut fence at the start of the slider wagon, and a push block at the further end. The latter has a clamp built in to prevent it moving (as it must double as a stop).

Holding a small board ...

https://i.postimg.cc/zq2LBQPM/FF2a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The clamping push block ...

https://i.postimg.cc/M6VX9pK2/FF4a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

The locking mechanism ...

https://i.postimg.cc/tX1sVzKg/FF7a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I use the parallel guide most of the time. The F&F gets little use now.

https://i.postimg.cc/JrCBFn7z/4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Note the UHMW ZCI stop at the end of the fence.

Also, the fine adjuster I built ...

https://i.postimg.cc/6WVGxXTL/1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Parks]

There are a variety of ways to make Fritz & Franz jig. Here's a couple things you can look at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoAPVQ2sqMc

https://groups.io/g/felderownersgroup/topic/94321465#125689

Mine is two pieces of MDF and that is it, no fences, tapes etc as they are not needed if you use the rip fence head as a measuring stop. I had an F&F jig with INCRA fences and flip stops and found I never used it so I sold the fences and stops. To use an F&F jig as most people do it is easier to put the CC fence on the opposite end to the operator and that works well.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Thomas, the traditional F&F will not work well on a slider with the crosscut fence at the start of the slider wagon. The original design called for fence to act as a stop. I began this way, but found it a chore to install and remove a second fence at the end of the slider wagon.


True, and an excellent additional advantage to having the outrigger. With the outrigger, the fence can be moved forward/backward on the wagon by loosening two thumb screws. Then, the F&F easily sits behind it.
510424

[Chris Parks]

A photo of the CC fence on mine at the leading end of the table before I had the outrigger

510426510427

[Chris Parks]

Photos of DRO on the rip fence

510429510430510432510428


The magnetic read tape fits exactly in the front vertical face of the extrusion holding the original measuring tape. My F&F jig can also be seen and most probably cost me $2 to make. The knobs hold in removeable end pieces so they can be replaced when they are no longer zero to the blade.

[Thomas Crawford]

Thomas, the traditional F&F will not work well on a slider with the crosscut fence at the start of the slider wagon. The original design called for fence to act as a stop. I began this way, but found it a chore to install and remove a second fence at the end of the slider wagon.

The solution was to create a "reverse F&F". This uses the crosscut fence at the start of the slider wagon, and a push block at the further end. The latter has a clamp built in to prevent it moving (as it must double as a stop).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek -> I saw your plans earlier for this and it finally clicked. For your version 2 looks like you dropped any vertical clamping as unnecessary?

[Thomas Crawford]

All - is the Felder store t-track the best long term option for making accessories? I finally found it on their website and its $130 for 3 meters, which feels like a lifetime supply.

[Jesse Brown]

Late to the party, but some random thoughts:



I bought the edging shoe with my saw a few years ago and still haven't used it. At least it's not too expensive.
Good call on the Forrest dado--the Hammer dado is nice, but it's minimum width is greater than 1/4", which bugs me.
I think I would have been unhappy with the saw if I hadn't have bought the outrigger, but I work with a mix of plywood and hardwood.
Like Aaron, I also like Tenryu blades, although take note that he mentioned the .128 kerf, which is fat 1/8".
Even though I do a lot of plywood, I could probably take or leave the scoring blade. It's awesome for melamine or HPL, though.
Fritz/franz and a clamping system for the sled is practically required :D
Ramon Valdez makes a zero-clearance insert, which is nice to have.

[Aaron Inami]

All - is the Felder store t-track the best long term option for making accessories? I finally found it on their website and its $130 for 3 meters, which feels like a lifetime supply.

Can you provide a URL for this Felder t-track? I'm not sure what you are referring to.

[Thomas Crawford]

Can you provide a URL for this Felder t-track? I'm not sure what you are referring to.

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/edging-shoes-sc123873/edge-trimming-equipment-sp123878

three 1 meter lengths for the sliding table t-track

[Michael Drew]

I have the 79 and often think the 48 would have been a better choice - till I need the longer stroke.

Of all the things that frustrate me with this saw, at the top of the list is the on/off location. It's factory location is simply moronic. And because it's not the prima-dona "Felder" line, one has to figure out how to move it on their own. An aftermarket option for relocating the switch would be nice.

[Jim Becker]

I have the 79 and often think the 48 would have been a better choice - till I need the longer stroke.

Of all the things that frustrate me with this saw, at the top of the list is the on/off location. It's factory location is simply moronic. And because it's not the prima-dona "Felder" line, one has to figure out how to move it on their own. An aftermarket option for relocating the switch would be nice.
Michael, the on/off switch is also awkward on my SCM/Minimax SC3C, being on the end of the wagon support and sized such that "feeling for it" doesn't always result in the start needed with material loaded on the wagon. I will say it's slightly better than the S315WS I had in my old shop where the switches were on the front of the machine "under" the wagon and any material loaded...I sometimes needed to use a stick to turn in on! It must be a "thing" with these manufacturers...

[Aaron Inami]

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/edging-shoes-sc123873/edge-trimming-equipment-sp123878

three 1 meter lengths for the sliding table t-track

Thanks. I suppose this could be useful if you wanted to modify a miter gauge (like an Incra miter gauge). You could just as well buy the Felder mitre guage + 900mm fence:

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/coupling-systems-sc123856/mitre-fence-with-mitre-guide-sp123858

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/fence-plates-sc123834/crosscut-fence-sp123837


for clamps, I found the Milescraft adapter with Kreg clamp works great for sliders:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09KYBY6PN/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H1WFNYC/

[Thomas Crawford]

I'm brand new to sliders, so trying to figure out the workholding. Is it a good idea to always use the hold down clamps on the sliding table when you can, or is it really for when its an odd angle or you are taking a small enough amount off that the rip fence on the other side doesn't help? I'm sure that's a basic question. Maybe I just need to hunt around youtube but there's so much bad advice on there.

[Steve Wurster]

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/edging-shoes-sc123873/edge-trimming-equipment-sp123878

three 1 meter lengths for the sliding table t-track

I think the main intended usage of that product is for making a sled to rip pieces longer than the sliding table. You can lock the table in place and slide the sled, much like you would do with a crosscut sled on a cabinet style saw.

If you just want "blocks" to go into the T-track area then those can be made out of scrap wood, aluminum, or even UHMW. I made a handful over the years for various purposes. That being said, I more recently bought a couple aluminum ones off Ramon Valdez that are tapped (M10x1.5, I think) and come with nice bolts with knurled ends. From there I made a few of mine own out of wood and bought extra bolts / knobs off Amazon. I just leave the blocks in the T-track all the time and place either a clamp or my F&F jig pieces down over them as needed, and then secure with a bolt.

[Aaron Inami]

I'm brand new to sliders, so trying to figure out the workholding. Is it a good idea to always use the hold down clamps on the sliding table when you can, or is it really for when its an odd angle or you are taking a small enough amount off that the rip fence on the other side doesn't help? I'm sure that's a basic question. Maybe I just need to hunt around youtube but there's so much bad advice on there.

You normally do not want to use the rip fence when using the "slider" to run material through the blade (there is a tiny risk of binding at the rear of the blade that could cause kick-back). Basically, you either use the slider to position the material and run it through -- or you set the rip fence and run wood through on the right side of the blade. You can use pull the rip fence back so that it's positioned before the blade and use it as a "stopper" when positioning material on the slider.

I generally use clamps in most cases because I don't want my hands anywhere near the blade, but it's also useful to lock material down so that it doesn't shift during the cut. With a longer narrow piece, it can easily shift left/right while you push the slider forward. In this case, it's best to use a parallel fence for the cut, but clamps work as well. The challenge is getting the material square to the crosscut fence (if it's a narrow piece).

If you are cutting larger sheets, you're probably fine with just using the flip-stop on the crosscut fence.

[Jim Becker]

I'm brand new to sliders, so trying to figure out the workholding. Is it a good idea to always use the hold down clamps on the sliding table when you can, or is it really for when its an odd angle or you are taking a small enough amount off that the rip fence on the other side doesn't help? I'm sure that's a basic question. Maybe I just need to hunt around youtube but there's so much bad advice on there.
"It depends". Cross cutting with a miter fence often doesn't need clamping down because the fence supports the material. Some straight line ripping using the wagon doesn't require clamps if the board is flat and you have a fence or shoe to butt it up against. Odd angles that are not supported should be clamped. Straight line ripping that requires the best precision (jointer free edge) or parallel ripping may benefit from clamping. Sometimes you clamp so you can keep your hands away from the hungry blade just by personal choice. You will learn through use where you need to clamp and where you don't need to clamp.

One thing...depending on the type of clamp you have to be careful not to use too much pressure to insure you don't deform the wagon. Really cranking things down isn't necessary. This is particularly true of cam type clamps.

Oh, on the tee track...I've never felt a need for that. If I need something to slide in the wagon's groove...I make it from scrap oak. If I need to have a custom clamp down setup in the wagon slot...I make it from scrap oak and use a captive nut.

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks. I suppose this could be useful if you wanted to modify a miter gauge (like an Incra miter gauge). You could just as well buy the Felder mitre guage + 900mm fence:

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/coupling-systems-sc123856/mitre-fence-with-mitre-guide-sp123858

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/fence-plates-sc123834/crosscut-fence-sp123837


for clamps, I found the Milescraft adapter with Kreg clamp works great for sliders:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09KYBY6PN/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H1WFNYC/

I have an extra mitre gauge and tried this as a F&F base. It did not work for me as I wanted a zero clerance face. Tightening/releasing the gauge on the track causes the face to alter its position, and lose the zero clearance.

I used the Felder track (UHMW strip) in my reversed F&F. It is intended for an sliding wagon extension ... which I though I would make, but never needed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Found this link in another thread:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?301451-Hammer-K3-slider-T-nuts&p=3234118#post3234118

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rod Sheridan]

Does anyone use the box-joint type blades instead of a dado stack on the K3?

Something like this -> https://www.forrestblades.com/saw-blades-for-finger-joints-square-cut-box-joints-rabbets-grooves-and-dovetails/4-piece-finger-joint-set-plus-bladerunner-case-3-16-1-4-5-16-3-8-cuts/

Hi Thomas, the Hammer saw is limited to grooving tools of 180mm diameter or less.

Larger tooling can collide with the saw aggregate structure, that’s why we buy 6” dado cutters in North America.

Regards, Rod

[Thomas Crawford]

Hi Thomas, the Hammer saw is limited to grooving tools of 180mm diameter or less.

Larger tooling can collide with the saw aggregate structure, that’s why we buy 6” dado cutters in North America.

Regards, Rod

Thanks Rod. I ended up finding a Forest 6" dado stack in stock and went with it.