thin, deep shaper groover - saw blade?

[David Zaret]

i need a deep groover to run on the shaper. so, i went to my trusty local saw blade place and asked them to make me an 8" blade with a 1 1/4" bore - they've done speciality blades before (buying stock blades and boring the center). they said, "nope, won't do it, too dangerous." the place is Saw and Specialty in Romulus, MI.

i think this is a pretty common request. i need a deep slot cutter, so such a blade feels perfect. the adjustable goovers i own for the shaper don't go down to 3mm, and that's what i need, and i need fairly deep reach. i fully understand that i'll have to ramp the spindle speed down to keep the cut safe.

my question is - what tooling do people run for deep, kerf-width grooves on the shaper, and where can i get such tooling? i was surprised by their answer, and cannot imagine it's an unusual approach.

-- dz

[Mark Hennebury]

I don't understand the problem, I have saw blades up to 18" , what's the problem with an 8" one? why not just get an 8" blade bored out to 1-1/4"?

[David Zaret]

I don't understand the problem, I have saw blades up to 18" , what's the problem with an 8" one? why not just get an 8" blade bored out to 1-1/4"?

that's precisely what i asked for. the declined to do it. i'm asking if that request was irrational, or if their response was irrational. and, if it's reasonable, now i have to go somewhere else - where to?

[Mark Hennebury]

It makes no sense to me, either they misunderstood what you want or they don't know what they are doing. All you want is an 8" diameter x 3mm kerf ripsaw blade with a 1-1/4" bore, no big deal!


that's precisely what i asked for. the declined to do it. i'm asking if that request was irrational, or if their response was irrational. and, if it's reasonable, now i have to go somewhere else - where to?

[Brian Gumpper]

Out of curiosity I emailed the owner at Ridge Carbide and this was his response. if you want a quote send me a PM but here are the response I received.

"Yes, no problem.

What material is being grooved?
How many teeth?
Hook angle?
Top Grind?"

[Warren Lake]

3M groove how deep, what type of material,need clean edges, bottom likely doesnt matter. Tool and die maker last bored blades for me on his milling machine. Full dadoe set. Locate, bored then I think its called a broach after that. Fast simple and easy.

[David Zaret]

alright, that's what i figured. i'll try one more time with them, and if i can't get what i need, look elsewhere. thanks guys.

[Lee Schierer]

I would suspect the the reason is that typical 8" saw blades are only rated for 8,000 rpm max. Typical shaper spindles rotate at 10,000+ rpms. Most likely the saw blades would flutter and eventually fracture at the higher rpms. Teeth could fly off and the blade could shatter.

[Warren Lake]

shaper speeds are whatever pulleys the belts are on and fine to run saw blades. 2,900 - 10k on average with four or five choices. Low usually 2,900 or 3,000 Old style split collar bevel edge cutter ran at lower speeds

[Kevin Jenness]

I've run a 12" dado set on a shaper, probably at around 3k rpm. I see no reason for concern as long as the rpms are correct. Most stock saw blades are 3.2 mm which might serve you, if you can find one with the grind you want just have the bore opened up to 1 1/4". Probably more choices in 10" diameter.

[Joe Calhoon]

I have a couple 10” blades I had bored to 1.25. Rip type blades better. 10” will fit inside the fence of your T12. You can get flutter with aggressive cuts. Because you only have spindle spacers either side of the blade instead of the collar - stabilizer most saws have.
510085

[Warren Lake]

tool and die maker gave me spacers lying around his shop they were larger than the shaper spacer smaybe 3" cant remember. One nice thing guy with 40 years in the trade lots of extra stuff around his shop. Could hardly walk in there,

Told him I was going to call Germany and they would take his German status away.

right is the spacer from some other industry 2 3/4", left one of the stock spacers 1 3/4". Blade size enters into it


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[David Zaret]

I have a couple 10” blades I had bored to 1.25. Rip type blades better. 10” will fit inside the fence of your T12. You can get flutter with aggressive cuts. Because you only have spindle spacers either side of the blade instead of the collar - stabilizer most saws have.
510085

joe, perfect. thanks again for your guidance. i'll find somebody to make me a blade, and i'll go with 10". is that a 50 tooth, ATB? much appreciated.

[Rod Sheridan]

I would suspect the the reason is that typical 8" saw blades are only rated for 8,000 rpm max. Typical shaper spindles rotate at 10,000+ rpms. Most likely the saw blades would flutter and eventually fracture at the higher rpms. Teeth could fly off and the blade could shatter.

Hi Lee, I have several saw blades bored to 30mm for my shaper.

My shaper has 3,000, 6,000, 8,000 and 10,000 RPM spindle speeds.

The two lower speeds work well with the ratings of the blades I have.

Regards, Rod

[David Zaret]

i finally caught up with the owner of Saw and Specialties (Neal) instead of his staff... this whole issue was a miscommunication between them. he just wanted to talk to me about the specific use case prior to recommending a particular blade, and his staff took that as a "strong nope." so that's solved. he's suggesting a particular industrial Freud, or Tenyru, 10", and going to bore it out for me. crisis averted.

--dz

[Phillip Mitchell]

I was just given a barely used Freud 8” dado set (5/8” bore) and this thread reminded me to consider keeping it and having it bored out to 1 1/4 for use on the shaper.

My table saw has a 1” arbor and I have a nice 10” Amana dado stack already.

[Michael Schuch]

Sorry, I have to ask, why don't you just run the grooves on a table saw?

If the blade had to be horizontal I would use my radial arm saw... but I know not everyone has an industrial quality radial arm saw.

[Jared Sankovich]

Sorry, I have to ask, why don't you just run the grooves on a table saw?

If the blade had to be horizontal I would use my radial arm saw... but I know not everyone has an industrial quality radial arm saw.

I'm not David but consistency and power feeding would be the top 2 reasons for me. Gravity working with you also helps.

[David Zaret]

I'm not David but consistency and power feeding would be the top 2 reasons for me. Gravity working with you also helps.

ayup! this. plus, this would be a tricky and potentially dangerous cut on the table saw. it'll be perfect on the shaper.

[Larry Edgerton]

All is well! I have a Forest dado with 1 1/4 bore and have occasionally used it on the shaper with no issues, so I was curious.

[Warren Lake]

mostly use the table saw, are you dropping in?