how can I get a short stroke slider or Sawstop in my shop

[Thomas Crawford]

Hey all - looking for some ideas on where I can fit something like a Hammer K3 48x48 or Sawstop in here (still deciding). I definitely have the space to have it on casters and roll stuff around but ideally I'm not moving it more than pulling it out a foot or two from a wall.

The obvious issue is the desk and weightlifting cage but I don't have room for those anywhere in the house. I work from home once or twice a week.

My initial idea is to put it where the A3-41 is, and then move the A3-41 to where the SCMS is. Long rips I could still do on the bandsaw which I've been doing for a decade now.

I like where the bench is but I'm not married to the location. I think I have enough 230V spread around I don't really have a limitation.

The shop is 18x26 wall to wall, here's pics:

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[Erik Loza]

Hey Tommy, hope you are well. I don’t really see a real-world space difference between a 48x48 K3 and a SS. Agree that relocating the A3 and then moving the saw into its spot is probably your best option. I believe Felder-Carrollton usually has a K3 in that configuration on tne showroom floor. Worth a drive to take some measurements in person?

Erik

[Phillip Mitchell]

I couldn’t say exactly how to do it very confidently without either being in your shop or seeing a plan view with dimensions and all obstacles, machines, etc. I can say that I have a short stroke slider in the same basic size shop that has more obstacles and less open space than what I can see in your photos.

I do typically keep the outrigger, crosscut fence and auxiliary table put away / hanging up when not in use or at least during the milling / rougher stages of a project as it just sticks out too much and is difficult to work around in an already tight space.

I would vote short stroke slider over Sawstop, personally. I would find a spot where you can have a wall to your right the distance of the max capacity of the rip fence and with enough forward to backward room at least the stroke of the slider or ideally enough for 8’ rips on both sides of the blade.

[glenn bradley]

I can offer a couple of observations and steps I took that have served me well. YMMV.
1. The compound miter saw takes up a lot of room and offers little benefit.
2. I changed my workout routine to activities that give me the result I want without the weight machine / rack.

[Michael Burnside]

I'd start with deciding which one you want and see if it will work. For my shop I had no budget or space constraints, but I build a lot of custom hardwood furniture, so I decided a SawStop was best for my decision. Very happy with this decision and love my setup. I don't do a lot of panel cuts but between the slider on the SawStop and my workbench with Dashboard PWS components, I can deal with 4x8 sheets, straight line rips, etc. if I need. If you feel SawStop is your route, I'm happy to measure my setup for you.

[Jim Becker]

I'm with Erik...there's not much difference in the foot print of a short stroke slider and a North American style cabinet saw like the SawStop. I've owned both...'had the SS in my temporary gara-shop while the building was going up and am back to the slider in the new shop. (which I MUCH prefer in SO many ways) Now mine is an SCM/Minimax SC3C, but the effective footprint is similar to the Felder/Hammer short stroke sliders. One thing I was very careful about when positioning tools in my new shop is infeed/outfeed direction and height. By paying attention to that, you can fit things to be able to take advantage of all the features of various tools without having to move them around.

[Kevin Jenness]

Draw out your floor plan and make cardstock scale models of everything movable, then shuffle them around until you find a workable layout. As Jim said, pay close attention to stock feed paths and machine heights in terms of clearance and stock support. You may come up with a completely new plan. Sometimes orienting machines off-axis to the shop's centerline will gain an advantage.

[Thomas Crawford]

I would like to get rid of the SCMS, the cart I built for it works great but takes up a ton of room. Its my least favorite tool from a safety and precision factor.

Almost everything I do is hardwoods and I have a festool tracksaw so I really want something that will replace the SCMS for most uses and give me a cleaner cut than the bandsaw. I would only work with smaller pieces of sheet goods after I broke them down.

[Michael Burnside]

I would like to get rid of the SCMS, the cart I built for it works great but takes up a ton of room. Its my least favorite tool from a safety and precision factor.

Almost everything I do is hardwoods and I have a festool tracksaw so I really want something that will replace the SCMS for most uses and give me a cleaner cut than the bandsaw. I would only work with smaller pieces of sheet goods after I broke them down.

Yea I have the Kapex and while I love it, I'll grab my Carvex 80% of the time. The Kapex sits atop a corner of a raiseable workbench where I store the 6-foot wing underneath. That way, if I need to batch out a bunch of stuff, it is my go-to tool, but otherwise it takes up "free" space.

[Thomas Crawford]

I'll see if I can dig up the sketchup model of my shop I made 5 years ago

[Michael Burnside]

I mean 18x26 is "huge" by most accounts. If you want a slider, you'll be able to find room IMHO. If you want a SawStop or other type of cabinet saw (Harvey, Powermatic, etc.) they all should fit if you can fit a slider. Just looking at the pictures it seems like the center has some workable area. You're not just stuck with right angles either. My cabinet saw is at an angle because in the off chance I rip long hardwood or a panel, it will just miss my 4'x8' workbench. I loath having my outfeed and workbench being the same thing, but a lot of people make that work incredibly well in space half as large as what you've got.

[Aaron Inami]

I had a large 12" SCMS. It was freakin heavy at 60 lbs and hard to lift/carry around. After I got my slider, I sold the miter saw and have been able to do most everything on the slider (with an angled crosscut fence). The only thing you would need a miter saw for is doing the larger crown moldings where you need to lay it at an angle to get a good miter cut. If I had to to that again, I would just get a smaller 10" non-sliding miter saw (weighs only about 24 lbs).

[Thomas Crawford]

I think I'll start a thread in general since I feel like I'm going to turn this into a slider Q&A :)

[Thomas Crawford]

I mean 18x26 is "huge" by most accounts. If you want a slider, you'll be able to find room IMHO. If you want a SawStop or other type of cabinet saw (Harvey, Powermatic, etc.) they all should fit if you can fit a slider. Just looking at the pictures it seems like the center has some workable area. You're not just stuck with right angles either. My cabinet saw is at an angle because in the off chance I rip long hardwood or a panel, it will just miss my 4'x8' workbench. I loath having my outfeed and workbench being the same thing, but a lot of people make that work incredibly well in space half as large as what you've got.

thanks, its good to be reminded that its a relatively large space and I'll definitely figure out something that works.

[Carl Beckett]

I would go with the slider.

Would take everything out and put the slider in, then make sure it clears for everything you want to do (sheet goods for the most part, but sometimes I cross cut a long board).

Then I would put stuff back in around it to where it fit.

I have a similar shop size and it is quite workable.

[Jim Becker]

I would like to get rid of the SCMS, the cart I built for it works great but takes up a ton of room. Its my least favorite tool from a safety and precision factor.

I still have my SCMS, but it's on a small, mobile stand that tucks out of the way against a wall under my clamps and some wall cabinets. I rarely use it other than for home improvement projects, etc. The stand is only about two foot square.

[Kevin Jenness]

I find a cutoff saw quite useful for bucking lumber, but I have 15' on either side. Dicing up planks with a slider entails a lot of end-for-ending. I have an old 8 1/2" Hitachi that does a decent job on finish cuts, but for optimal results I use the sliding table saw. For sure if you have to choose one let the miter saw go and don't look back. I think you will find a slider better for your purposes than a cabinet saw with a sliding attachment as having the carriage next to the blade enables straight-line rips, taper cuts and the like.

[Wes Grass]

My old Dewalt 12", 42" front to back, takes up a ton of room. Highly useful when I need it.

Felder KF-700, short stroke. Not a lot bigger then a conventional TS as already noted. Most use, the 'slider' stays locked down, or needs no more than a foot or 2 of clearance for cross cuts.

[Patrick McCarthy]

if it were me, i would be inclined to move the bench to the left and rotate it counterclockwise 90 degrees so you are up against and looking at the weight cage. Then i would put my saw where the was, with the operator's back to the double doors, so you can bring lumber or sheet goods in thru the door and slice and dice it on the saw.

JMHO, YMMV, good luck, Patrick

[Steve Wurster]

I have a Hammer K3 79x48 in my 16'x22' basement shop, along with my workbench, an A3-31, two bandsaws, a router table, a drum sander, a drill press, a DC, and various other things. I don't have to deal with exercise equipment, but I do have HVAC units, a water heater, and litter boxes in my shop.

It's not that tight of a squeeze, but it does mean most equipment is on wheels and most equipment has to be moved out from the wall when I want to use it. The K3 is on wheels but never moves. My workbench is against a wall, limiting its usefulness somewhat, but I'm used to that. My assembly table is frequently being moved around as I shuffle equipment for use or when I have to move it out of the way of the slider's wagon when making cuts that require longer travel.

All that being said, I would not go back to a cabinet-style saw.

[Jim Becker]

^^ I've been in Steve's excellent shop and it's an amazing example of putting a lot of functionality into a space that many folks might not consider. And the slider is the heart of it.

[Tom Levy]

I was also deciding between SS and slider and wanted the slider, but I had the consideration of my kids eventually using the shop and the brake feature for their safety won out. I have a smaller space than that, but could have made the slider work.

Another vote to ditch miter saw, huge space hog that for hardwood furniture construction can be replaced by a couple collapsing saw horses and 7 1/4 circ saw to break things down when needed. I do this outside so it doesn't require any shuffling things in the shop and keeps the dust outside.

[Thomas Crawford]

Been talking to the Felder rep and should end up with a K3 winner 48x48. I'm trying to decide if I want their mobility base or not. For my A3-41 I put it on a Bora 3550 (the one with 4 swivel wheels) and I really like it. But for some reason I'm thinking the slider should move around less. And I'm not sure how to effectively get it on there.

[Thomas Crawford]

if it were me, i would be inclined to move the bench to the left and rotate it counterclockwise 90 degrees so you are up against and looking at the weight cage. Then i would put my saw where the was, with the operator's back to the double doors, so you can bring lumber or sheet goods in thru the door and slice and dice it on the saw.

JMHO, YMMV, good luck, Patrick

That's not a bad idea, thanks. I can also add a 230V and dust collection hose to the middle of the ceiling and stick the slider in the middle. I've just always preferred the machines along the wall for some reason.

[Jim Becker]

That's not a bad idea, thanks. I can also add a 230V and dust collection hose to the middle of the ceiling and stick the slider in the middle. I've just always preferred the machines along the wall for some reason.
That's how I did my "tool islands"; the slider being one and the J/P, BS and DP being the other. Electrical and dust collection are attached to simple posts that are fastened up top and with a couple of tapcons at the bottom

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[Mike Wilkins]

I have a short stroke slider that I located on one of the long walls of my 16 X 32 shop. It is the only machine in my space that is not mounted on moveable casters due to its weight (1000 lbs). My Hammer A3-41 is on the other long wall, closest to the dust collector. Like others have stated, my vote is for the slider due to the capacity and safety it offers. Everything else is located the best way possible, pulling out whatever machine is needed as needed. You can make it work.

[Rod Sheridan]

[/QUOTE]

Hi Thomas, I suggest you purchase the 31 1/2” rip capacity model instead, I’ve owned one for 13 years and have never needed the extra capacity for ripping.

If you do need that, rip on the sliding table for increased capacity.

The outrigger normally hangs on my wall, when I need it it goes on in two minutes without tools or requiring calibration.

I use the slider mounted crosscut fence the most, followed by a F&F jig, then the big fence on the outrigger occasionally.

Buy the mobility kit from Felder, it works great, better than casters in my opinion.

Regards, Rod

[Lisa Starr]

Probably late to the show, but I have a SC2C in my cutup 24 x 24 space. I did remove the table to the right of the blade a few months ago and build a smaller one allowing me to move it closer to the wall. I was replacing a cabinet saw with 60" rails and this takes up about the same amount of space.

[Thomas Crawford]

Well I got one ordered, it was in stock, so I should be figuring out where to put it in the next week or two. Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll post pics when i get it in.

[Rod Sheridan]

Well I got one ordered, it was in stock, so I should be figuring out where to put it in the next week or two. Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll post pics when i get it in.

I look forward to seeing the photos

Regards, Rod

[Carl Beckett]

Well I got one ordered, it was in stock, so I should be figuring out where to put it in the next week or two. Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll post pics when i get it in.

This is the correct sequence:

1) Order new equipment
2) Figure out where it will fit...

:D

(just kidding.... )

[Todd Zucker]

You’re not kidding.

[Thomas Crawford]

It fits!

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[mike stenson]

Wow, that was quick! Very nice!

[Christopher Charles]

Congrats! Looks great and would be fun to see your new arrangement when it settles out.

Chris

[Carl Beckett]

It fits!

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Never a doubt, its beautiful!

[Jim Becker]

It looks right at home!!! Enjoy!

[Wes Grass]

Sweet. You're gonna love it.

[Thomas Crawford]

Thought I'd post some pics of the unloading process in case it helps anyone:

The pallet as it arrived:

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unpacked:

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put the wheels on by levering it up, get a buddy:

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build a ramp:

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wheel it to the shop:

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build another ramp:

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boom:

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[Thomas Crawford]

Step one has been figuring out dust collection for the shroud.

My friend 3D printed me an adapter:

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He's working on printing it as all once piece to go 50mm to 4"

[Thomas Crawford]

Split my 6" line into a 5" and 4" with two blast gates:

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Unfortunately too much suction pulls on the shroud:

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My temp solution while I figure out what to do it to keep screwing pieces of scrap together until its straight:

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Seems to be working but is really pulling hard on the shroud, but at this point its keeping the riving knife roughly where it should be. You can see how its keeping the shroud elevated.

[Lisa Starr]

If you can, drop your hose to the shroud straight down from the ceiling/overhead arm. It will take the pressure off the shroud and allow
it to work properly. My whole shroud is mounted from overhead instead of on the riving knife and I find it vastly better. I can even
keep the guard in place for non thru cuts.

I know you're going to really enjoy having the short stroke saw.

[Jim Becker]

Congrats on the new saw and getting it in the shop!

Not sure I'd put the weight, etc., of that 4" hose on the blade guard collection unless it was a separate overarm setup. It's not going to add in a "yuge" way to the performance due to the nature of that guard. So I'd stick with a smaller hose for that specific setup, such as the native 50mm/2".

[Thomas Crawford]

I'd like to figure out a floating version. Something like this Harvey but not $900: https://www.harveywoodworking.com/products/shark-s-12s-universal-overhead-guard

Seems like I could figure out a way to DIY that with a different shroud.

Lisa did you buy a different one?

[Thomas Crawford]

I discovered the would of uni-strut, I think I'm definitely going to make something myself attached to my wall.

https://www.thesharkguard.com/product/the-original-sharkguard-the-guard-that-started-it-all/

$240 for that guard plus $60 for the mount. Then the cost of uni-strut which I need to add up but probably another $300. That's getting awful close to the cost of the Harvey.

[Carl Beckett]

I have mounted my TS collection from an overhead support. (a thread here from a while back with a pic).

Definitely my preferred way. But I havent found the ideal, since if I have a large/tall project I have to remove the overhead DC. The shroud is mounted on a removable piece that to allow for this.

I made a box/channel that in the prior shop cantilevered out high off one wall - it was pretty stiff and held up well. This same channel I extended to go all the way across the current setup (to clear the garage door when it opened)

Its not a bad way...

Found it: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?295747-Overhead-TS-guard

Sounds like your suction causes the hose to scrunch up - maybe shorten the portion of flex hose (but where/how...)

[Rod Sheridan]

Very nice Thomas, I have the same size B3 with outrigger and a flip up feeder.

Regards, Rod