Scribing cabs in an alcove

[andrew whicker]

First off, apparently my grandpa had a Porter Cable 314 trim saw which I got from my dad a few weeks ago! So I was able to use that for scribing. Definitely an easy tool for scribing. Much recommended!

But for the questions / remarks:

I just got done with a simple cab install. However, the cabs were Home Depot (really bad build quality), the cabs needed to go into an alcove, and the floor dropped an inch over the span of 7 ft. Because of the bad build quality it was a bit more challenging than expected since the I didn't have a whole lot to level off except the Face Frames. The sides and backs were not flush on top. Did the best I could. The face frames were not straight on their faces (bowed). I could not line them up very well in some places.

My process for scribing the alcove:

The high side was on the right. So I set that cab up level and then scribed. I then set up the left most cab and did the same. I tried the best I could using a tape measure to figure where the scribe needed to be. You can see my results below. Then I installed Right to Left. As you can see from the photos, I was off by about 1/16". No big deal since it's paint grade.

I'm wondering what others do it to get it right. I think I could have used a story stick and that would have helped w/ accuracy.

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Installed


510012

Right Side


510013
Left Side (Last cab to get installed)

[Jim Becker]

The issue you had with the floor is exactly the reason that I prefer a separate "toe kick" platform from the actual cabinets. It's a lot easier to level that short support structure first. That makes the actual cabinet install easier and subsequently the face frame scribing work. A completely captive face frame is always going to be more difficult than a setup that only one side engages the wall. For me, that means either making things so that the outer stiles are removable so they can be scribed separately or building the face frame in-place which is essentially the same but takes things further. The latter is better for paint work while the former may present a better look for stain/clear wood because all the intersections can be leveled prior to install.

[andrew whicker]

I had no choice on this project. This is one of the few projects where I got brought on as the "install guy". It is a new connection for me with a cabinet painting company. Would be good work to have a fairly routine workload. The work itself lends itself to an employee.

Normally I wouldn't install someone else's stuff. Especially low quality stuff like this.

[Cameron Wood]

If there will be filler strips anyway it's pretty straightforward. I would fasten the cabinets together, getting the face frame in a plane as much as possible,
push it into place, shim the toekick while the cabinet backs rest against the wall, shim at the wall if necessary and screw through the cleat at the top back, measure and cut the filler strips, planing to fit, and glue in place, toe screw a couple through the toe kick into the floor, and possibly glue or tack the floor shims.

[andrew whicker]

If there will be filler strips anyway it's pretty straightforward. I would fasten the cabinets together, getting the face frame in a plane as much as possible,
push it into place, shim the toekick while the cabinet backs rest against the wall, shim at the wall if necessary and screw through the cleat at the top back, measure and cut the filler strips, planing to fit, and glue in place, toe screw a couple through the toe kick into the floor, and possibly glue or tack the floor shims.

So bring a wide enough filler piece that you have enough room to scribe it and rip it after the scribe? install some backing behind the existing face frame to sit flush?

That works. I thought about doing it that way.

[Cameron Wood]

So bring a wide enough filler piece that you have enough room to scribe it and rip it after the scribe? install some backing behind the existing face frame to sit flush?

That works. I thought about doing it that way.


I would start with a filler slightly wider, hold it up and scribe it, then cut to the scribe, back beveling slightly. Plane to fit. You can reach top and bottom to get it flush. I just glue, but you can screw through the FF style if you want.

[Kevin Jenness]

Installing cabinets built like that is a pain and illustrates why I prefer a ladder base for the cabinets I build. In this case I would either add some levelers in the back that can be adjusted from above through a hole in the decks, screw a level cleat to the back wall that would support a similar cleat or blocks on the back of the ganged cabinets, or scribe/shim a tapered cleat to the floor to support the cabinet legs. Get the back supported level, shim the fronts, then you can measure for scribe strips.

[Rob Sack]

We use fully adjustable leg levelers for all of our base cabinets. They allow use to precisely dial in the cabinet regardless of the condition or degree of level of the existing floor. Once set, a snap on toe base is installed. Of all the brands available, the Axios system from Hafele is the most versatile and they have an special tool for adjusting the rear levelers from the front of the cabinet without having to reach in. This system is especially useful in wet locations such as kitchens, baths, and laundry rooms because they are plastic and impervious to water and mold should they get wet. Should there be a flood situation, the toe base face is easily removed and the entire area under to cabinet is fully accessible to inspect and dry before mold sets in. Having full access under the cabinets has also provided routes for water lines and electrical lines without running them through the wall. We have saved several general contractors' bacon more than once when they forget to run the water line to the refrigerator ice maker during construction.

[andrew whicker]

That's a good idea. I once tried the metal ones that use a allen driver to change their heights (E-Z). They were expensive and their operation is meh. And will very easily scratch a customer floor! No bueno.

For this install, I set the cab to the left without any shims and stacked my shims on top of the cab to match the height of the cab to the right minus 1/16 or so. Then I double sided taped the shims together and put them under the bottom back side. Shimmed the front to tilt it all up and match the FF's as best as possible. Check w/ 6 ft level and laser height.

Like I say, the cabs were crap so it's not perfect. It was a box of 1/2" particle board with no nailers or stretchers with a poorly made FF attached to it. I asked the homeowner to send photos to the granite guys to ensure the cabs were good for the weight. I did the best I could. Here is a shot from above of the left most cab against the drywall. I was worried I wouldn't even be able to move this cab in and out after the 3rd cab was installed, but it worked out okay.


510059

I should have taken some photos of how badly the FF's were made. I was scratching my head at times, then I would put a straight edge on the face and see a huge bow or a big dip on one end! Amazing.


Note to everyone: do NOT buy box store cabs. That's not a recommendation. That's an order.

[andrew whicker]

I would start with a filler slightly wider, hold it up and scribe it, then cut to the scribe, back beveling slightly. Plane to fit. You can reach top and bottom to get it flush. I just glue, but you can screw through the FF style if you want.

What tool are you cutting with? A small circ saw on a thin piece? Jigsaw?

[Cameron Wood]

Cut to approx width with circ saw, trim to scribe line with angle grinder with sanding disk, or jigsaw.

If you need a 1/2" piece, cut it off the filler stock (usually 3") first so you don't have to rip a skinny little piece.

For bigger pieces, freehand rip on tablesaw, if there is one.

[Kevin Jenness]

Cut to approx width with circ saw, trim to scribe line with angle grinder with sanding disk, or jigsaw.

If you need a 1/2" piece, cut it off the filler stock (usually 3") first so you don't have to rip a skinny little piece.

For bigger pieces, freehand rip on tablesaw, if there is one.

If scribing a filler it's easiest to handle a wider piece to start with. Set it up parallel to the end stile, mark and cut the scribe with a jigsaw and hand plane or sanding block, depending on how fine you want to go, then rip off the scribed edge on a tablesaw. It's easier to see the scribe line if you put blue tape on the face of the filler, cut to the scribe line with a knife and peel off the excess for a nice sharp border. As far as ripping freehand on a tablesaw goes, I've worked around guys doing that and I make sure not to walk behind them.

[andrew whicker]

I would rather use a wide filler piece and use this trim saw. It was so nice to use in comparison to a jigsaw. Flapper wheels and mdf.... ugh. No thanks. Obviously it's part of the tool kit but I'm going to use it as little as possible

.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I did this one a few years ago. Was a bear to get into the room itself, mostly bc of the doorway. This FF was already assembled and biscuited / pre-fit to the cab in my shop. I had site measurements wall to wall in order to build the cab so I knew what I was going into, but I left ~ 1/2” extra meat on each outer edge of the FF for scribing.

Set the cab (on a separate and leveled toe kick) centered in between each wall. Measured / mapped out each side wall in relation to cabinet and transferred wall map scribes to face frame. Rip extra material off each edge of FF with cordless circ saw to within ~ 1/16 of line. Finish to scribe lines with handheld power planer and put a back bevel on scribed edges at the same time.

If i remember correctly, I got this scribe on the first shot all the way around but it wasn’t complicated - wall was plumb on one side and mostly at least flat/in plane on the other. It’s when you have dips, humps and out of plumb that make it interesting. Some folks swear by scribing with a jigsaw. I cannot stand it and would rather circ saw to the line as close as I can and plane (1st choice) or angle grind (2nd choice - if really wavy, etc).

This one had some textured drywall work that came after cab install in this case and I did not do the work on the top of the vanity.

Seems like most of your problem was the quality of the cabinets themselves and less so the actual scribing?

[Cameron Wood]

Disclaimers are called for for the texture, paint color, countertop, and sink,
but the cabinet is nice. :rolleyes:

[Phillip Mitchell]

Disclaimers are called for for the texture, paint color, countertop, and sink,
but the cabinet is nice. :rolleyes:

Yep, all areas that were outside my scope of work. Sometimes you do the job you’re hired for, keep your mouth shut and just walk away at the end of the job.