Safe Heater???

[Brian Triplett]

Just a quick question. I currently work in a single car garage and trying to find a heater that would basically knock the chill off. I had a small mr heater that had about 9,000 btu. It could run a hour and i could barely tell a difference. I was thinking about a force air heater you see a construction sites. I wondering your thoughts about safety on somehting like this. I know it's not the safest but something that would probably be used litely for about 3 months out of the year. If not want would you suggest, below $100 for I am not staying in the house much longer. thanks.

[Tom Pritchard]

Just a quick question. I currently work in a single car garage and trying to find a heater that would basically knock the chill off. I had a small mr heater that had about 9,000 btu. It could run a hour and i could barely tell a difference. I was thinking about a force air heater you see a construction sites. I wondering your thoughts about safety on somehting like this. I know it's not the safest but something that would probably be used litely for about 3 months out of the year. If not want would you suggest, below $100 for I am not staying in the house much longer. thanks.
Brian, I wouldn't recommend this heater for use in your garage. They are not "indoor safe", and produce carbon monoxide, which is a poisonous gas that can cause death. I have one that I use in my garage when I'm working on the car/truck, and I have to leave the gable vent open and the entry door open a bit to keep the carbon monoxide to a minimum level. I would not use it for more than an hour to hour and a half.
If you want to save money and be safe, I might recommend an electric quartz radient heater (about $50.00). They work on 110V, and warm objects, not air (like the sun) so they keep you toasty without heating the whole garage. Good luck in your decision!

p.s. I recently purchased a heater like the one I described for my Mom at Lowe's for $49.99 made by Mr. Heater (I think).

[Mitchell Garnett]

I have a similar heater than I use very sparingly - I does get hot and warms the garage up quickly. My worries are fire - lots of flame in these things - and carbon monoxide.

When I do use it, I make sure there's plenty of ventilation - I normally open one garage door enough so the unit slides under and I pull in outside air that way.

I may be exaggerating the risks but if I'm doing anything that makes a lot of sawdust, I do not use this heater at the same time. Ditto for flammable fumes, etc.

I'm not an expert in this area so I'll be interested in other replies too.

[Matt Meiser]

In addition to the things Tom mentioned, those heaters get very hot in front, have an open flame, and sound like a jet engine. I have a kerosene one I used to use to heat my dad's shop when I was building a car there several years ago and really hated being around it. Oh, and they generate a ton of moisture, which will probably condense on your cold tools. The only reason I keep mine is so that I can heat the attached garage if I have to work on one of the cars when it is cold. The last time I used it was when I was finishing my shop 2 years ago.

[Bryan Somers]

Brian when I was in the Burlington Home Depot the other day I saw the electric oil filled radiator heators marked down to $18 I believe. They are safe and put out a fair amount of heat. Three different heat settings 500 ,1000, and 1500 watts. Still had several in stock. Your close to Raliegh (correct?) mabey they have the same deals there.

[Joe Pelonio]

Brian when I was in the Burlington Home Depot the other day I saw the electric oil filled radiator heators marked down to $18 I believe. They are safe and put out a fair amount of heat. Three different heat settings 500 ,1000, and 1500 watts. Still had several in stock. Your close to Raliegh (correct?) mabey they have the same deals there.
Oil filled are the safest, and when my heat pump at the shop went out I managed to heat 1000 sf with it going on high in the winter (30's F). In a garage situation the main problem is heat loss, you could consider some kind of insulation around the big door for when you are in it working, easily removable in case you need to bring in a car or load large items. Also, the top and walls on a garage are usually not insulated.

[Frank Hagan]

I think the conversion is that there are 3412 BTU per KWH, so those 1500 watt electric heaters will heat less effectively than your 9,000 BTU heater that isn't up to snuff.

Since its a short term solution, you can find the LP catalytic burners that sit on top of a LP tank, and they put out about 20,000 BTU, IIRC. They have an "oxygen depletion sensor" on them, but I would invest in a $28 CO detector from Walmart, Lowes or Home Depot.

Your garage is probably already "loose enough" ... the NFGC code requirements are that you have 1 square inch of vent bringing in outdoor air per 4,000 BTU. One vent at the ceiling, and one at the floor level. That's only 5 square inches. (If you have horizontal ducts bringing in the air and they don't "communicate directly with the outdoors", then you need to make them 1 square inch per 1,000 BTU ... but that's still only 20" square ... a 5 x 4" duct opening).

If this were a permanent install, I'd recommend you do something else. But with the ventilation air and a CO detector, and the fact that its just for a few months, you could certainly try this and see how well it works.

[Jason Quick]

Just a quick question. I currently work in a single car garage and trying to find a heater that would basically knock the chill off.

Brian, I have a similar problem - I live in a split-entry w/ 2-car garage in Nebraska. I actually purchased one of those Mr. Heater 9000BTU heaters recently myself ($50 on clearance at HD - check several stores), running it off of a 20lb propane tank, and I've found it to be quite adequate to take the chill off. I can work out there in shirtsleeves if I like, and that's in a 400SF garage.

I tried smaller electric heaters before with little success, but cannot speak to the efficacy of larger ones (like the oil-filled radiator jobs, etc). The big issue I have is that I only have so many plugs in the garage, and the bleedin' things draw 1500W on high. That's pretty much the entire capacity of an average household circuit. Turn on the 15A saw and out go the lights, if it's on the same circuit. SWMBO starts a hairdryer or iron on that circuit and you're in the dark as well.

I do know one thing - if the heater says "don't use this in an enclosed space," DON'T. Before I bought the current heater, I purchased a different one by Remington. Worked like a charm as far as warming up the room went, but a carbon monoxide detector showed a pretty high level of CO (reading of ~260) in the room in a very short period of time. I was getting a bit wobbly in less than 15 minutes!

What I'd suggest is insulating the walls if you can. Foamboard insulation is cheap, even in, say, 1-1/2" thickness, and it would be well worth it to insulate your garage a wee bit. Fiberglass is cheaper, of course, but you need open stud bays for that, which you might not have.

The biggest problem I see w/ heating a garage is the fact that that 4" thick concrete floor is a huge heatsink. Unfortunately I don't know a good solution for that one. :)

Jason

[Brian Triplett]

Thanks for all the info guys, I've tried the electric oil filled heater, it did not work. It does a good job warming up the office in my house which is a lot smaller area. Insulation would be a problem sense the wall board is already in place and painted finish. I might just try what Frank and a few other mentioned with the burner that sits on top of the tank. Thanks again guys, stay warm.:D

[Frank Hagan]

Thanks for all the info guys, I've tried the electric oil filled heater, it did not work. It does a good job warming up the office in my house which is a lot smaller area. Insulation would be a problem sense the wall board is already in place and painted finish. I might just try what Frank and a few other mentioned with the burner that sits on top of the tank. Thanks again guys, stay warm.:D

The CO detector would be the key with any of these. Jason's story is scary to me, as at 400 ppm you can die in 3 hours. He wasn't that far away from it, and had he not recognized the symptoms of CO poisoning, the room could have reached that level or higher. Safe exposure is listed at 50 ppm for an 8 hour period (an OSHA standard), so I would use that as a guideline (less is better, of course, but don't freak out over 5 ppm; that's usually the "background" CO in a city.)

[Matt Meiser]

No matter what, if you are going to burn something for heat, I would have a carbon monoxide detector. Mine was up before the furnace was running.

[Barry O'Mahony]

I tried one of those years ago. They put out alot of heat, but it made me dizzy with the bad gasses they put out. They also put out alot of water vapor, which really raises the humidity level in the shop. Any unvented heater is going to do the same.

Unfortunately, no matter what "tricks" they use (oil-filled, radiant, etc.), 120V plug-connected heaters are limited to putting out 1500W of heat, maximum. That's ~5000 BTU, no matter what the heater type.

Take three characterisitics for heaters:

-- safe,
-- effective,
-- less than $100.

IMHO you can have any two of these simultaneously, but not all three.

[Dale Thompson]

Brian,
In a workshop, NEVER use a heater with ANY kind of an open flame or exposed electrical heating elements. :eek:

Also, pay attention to the carbon monoxide warnings given previously! Approximately 90% of the people who die in "fires" actually die from smoke inhalation! :( Of that 90%, 90% die from the most potent killer in the smoke - CARBON MONOXIDE!! :( That means that 80%+ of "fire" deaths are caused my CO! Get a CO Detector and THEN check my math! :eek: :(

Dale T.

[Brian Triplett]

So if I get one of the top mounted propane heaters as shown and a carbon monoxide detector I so be ok. Basically to get the temps from 30's and 40's to the upper 50's and into the 60's. Is there anyway to get better air circlation(sp?) like adding a fan behind or in front?

[Matt Meiser]

So if I get one of the top mounted propane heaters as shown and a carbon monoxide detector I so be ok. Basically to get the temps from 30's and 40's to the upper 50's and into the 60's. Is there anyway to get better air circlation(sp?) like adding a fan behind or in front?

I wouldn't blow the fan right on it, but circulating the air around the room with a fan would probably help.

[Dale Thompson]

So if I get one of the top mounted propane heaters as shown and a carbon monoxide detector I so be ok. Basically to get the temps from 30's and 40's to the upper 50's and into the 60's. Is there anyway to get better air circlation(sp?) like adding a fan behind or in front?

Brian,
I'm not familiar with that type of heater but it looks like an "open element" heater to me. :confused: That would expose sawdust and/or wood to the maximum temperature of the heater. In MY opinion, that is NOT good. :( Believe it or not, OLD, very dry wood (and its sawdust) can ignite at temperatures as low as 150 deg. F.. The wood will burn. The sawdust will burn even faster - it's called an explosion! :(

Also, a small propane tank with a high-temp element on the top would appear to me to be quite dangerous. :( What if the tank is accidentally knocked over and the valve is cracked or broken? Very BAD news! :(

If you can't get an external source of warm air into your shop, you may be stuck with a larger oil-filled heater or something like that. Have you checked with your insurance agent? Using the wrong type of heater could, in fact, void your insurance coverage. :eek:

As far as circulation is concerned, a fan close to the ceiling blowing UP may be your best bet. If you have an air clearner (not a DC) in your shop, the fan in that unit turned to high should give you all you need in terms of circulation. :)

I wish I could be of more help but you have one of those problems where you need just a "bit" of heat. Up here in the northwoods, if we want to stay warm in the shop, we have to light it on fire!! :cool: ;) You should see what THAT does to insurance rates! :)

Dale T.

[Rob Will]

There is such a thing as electric radiant heat panels that mount directly to the ceiling. They are also often used in drop in ceilings. I installed a 4'x4' radiant panel in my mother-in-law's sun room. Does a decent job of breaking the chill IF you are standing within a 45 degree cone surrounding the panel. No hot surfaces to worry about.

I would find a way to blow a bit of insulation into those walls and above the ceiling.

Rob

[Brian Triplett]

Thanks for all the replies, the problem comes from 1, the wife still in school so not leaving much money on such big items 2nd, I don't see staying in ths house much longer due to wanting to start a family soon so I don't want to spend a bunch of money on something the next owner will care nothing about.

I really don't know about sawdust really creating a mass explosion, now will it "explosion" meaning burn really fast but in very small area yes, mass explosion I don't think so. Also if you keep the burner clean, cover it when not it use, and use compressed air before use, I think it might be ok. I seen first hand how much coal it takes to cause a mass explosion "power plants" and I don't think a few particles of sawdust will cause to much of a problem. Now I could be totally wrong which will not be the first time:) but I think it will be ok. the insurance thing is something worth looking into. Thanks.

[Byron Trantham]

I wouldn't use anything with a constant exposed flame!:mad: I don't have the heating problem but I sure would look into something that didn't have a flame. Think saw dust, mineral spirits, lacquer thinner, spray paint - can or gun.:eek:

[Tim Sproul]

I'd consider add one or several of these:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44590&cat=1,43456,43465&ap=1

Quartz radiant heaters. Good for intermittent use in milder climates. I wouldn't worry about causing an explosion with an exposed hot heating element. If you've that much dust in your shop air, you have bigger worries than heating and should get better dust collection or change your methodology to produce less airborne dust (hand tools?) before getting heat.

If you spray solvent based finishes, you might heed the warning about staying away from exposed hot elements.

[Steven Herbin]

I just installed a Dimplex heater in my garage/shop. It is an electric heater that requires a 220v/20amp line (I'm having the whole house rewired so I had the electrician install a new service panel out there). Cost about $200 (for the heater - rewiring, don't ask). I turn it on about an hour before I start working and it takes the chill out of the air to the extent that I can work in my shirtsleeves. It has made me more aware of insulating and sealing up the shop against heat loss. My area is about 25' x 12' with a VERY high roof - non-insulated. So my heat loss is quite high.

But I felt it was much safer than any of the petroleum alternatives.