Favorite tool for cleaning out tight dovetails?

[Tom Bain]

I’ve been practicing my dovetail cutting skills for an upcoming project and realize I need a better tool/method for cleaning out the tight inside corners. My bevel edge Japanese chisels are just too chunky to effectively get in those spots. Soooo, what do people prefer and why … thin paring chisel, fishtail chisel, skew chisel, purpose made dovetail chisel, something else entirely?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

509559
I don't cut many dovetails. I occasionally get to make a bow tie loose tenon. I do the final clean up with an X-acto fitted with the chisel blade.

[Michael Fross]

For me it's a fishtail chisel. I tend to cut more through dovetails than 1/2 blind, but when I do, the fishtail comes out.

[Tony Zaffuto]

For blind, a fishtail chisel. For through, usually nice fit right off the saw, however, I take a lot of care to shoot all edges square, exact layout, sawing in a Moxon.

[mike stenson]

Annother fishtail chisel user for non-through dovetails.

[Ben Ellenberger]

My smallest chisel is 3/16. It’s just a bevel edge chisel, but seems to work fine. I don’t try to cut pins any smaller than 1/4” at the base.

[Andrew Hughes]

I have a small DT chisel. I like to mark the pin boards off my chisel I want to use. I also leave enough space for my thinnest paring chisel.

Good Luck

[Eric Brown]

I also like the fishtail chisel for non-through dovetails. I have two sizes but use the larger one more. Much handier than two skew chisels but the size might be an issue with very narrow dovetails. I also like the dovetail chisels from Tools for Working Wood with the rounded backs. Very comfortable. Use of denatured alcohol also helps.

[Jim Koepke]

Skew chisels work for me in cleaning out the corners of dovetails.

509593

These were all made with duplicate chisels. On of the 1/4" chisels was purchased from a junk store for a buck or two. The other was given to me by a person from whom a bunch of molding planes were being bought. It had a beat up socket.

The 1/2" chisel, second from the bottom, had a badly mushroomed socket but there was barely enough left to fit a handle.

jtk

[Kent A Bathurst]

...........take.... care to shoot all edges square....

I have a Moxon-ish vise. You've hit my problem area - what do you mean by "shoot" them square? Is there some particular technique I am missing? Or is this simply "pay closer attention"?

[Jim Koepke]

I have a Moxon-ish vise. You've hit my problem area - what do you mean by "shoot" them square? Is there some particular technique I am missing? Or is this simply "pay closer attention"?

I can't answer for Tony, but in my experience having the sides and ends square to the faces and each other make it easier to end up with boxes, drawers or cabinets that sit flat on a table, inside a frame or when hung on a wall.

It is possible to join non-square pieces using dovetails, but that is a whole different way to layout and cut dovetails.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

I can't answer for Tony, but in my experience having the sides and ends square to the faces and each other make it easier to end up with boxes, drawers or cabinets that sit flat on a table, inside a frame or when hung on a wall.

It is possible to join non-square pieces using dovetails, but that is a whole different way to layout and cut dovetails.

jtk

You said it better than me, Jim! Amazing that taking a few minutes extra early on, saves much more time later.

[Ron Brese]

18 degree skews work well.

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[John Kananis]

He means you should use a shooting board to square the ends. A quick search here will give you an endless amount of results on shooting boards/planes.


I have a Moxon-ish vise. You've hit my problem area - what do you mean by "shoot" them square? Is there some particular technique I am missing? Or is this simply "pay closer attention"?

[Kent A Bathurst]

He means you should use a shooting board to square the ends. A quick search here will give you an endless amount of results on shooting boards/planes.


Thanks, John - I mis-read his comments.

I'm all over shooting. 3 different sizes/functions. A small one that runs a LN 140 skew block; a "normal" with a 62 LA jack - 2 blades, 2 angles for end v face; and a loooong one that is really a jointer/width-sizer with an LV shooting plane.


My problem is always making my saw cuts normal/perpendicular to the wood face, so the pins mate up square with the tails. There might be a secret club on how to do this properly.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I’ve been practicing my dovetail cutting skills for an upcoming project and realize I need a better tool/method for cleaning out the tight inside corners. My bevel edge Japanese chisels are just too chunky to effectively get in those spots. Soooo, what do people prefer and why … thin paring chisel, fishtail chisel, skew chisel, purpose made dovetail chisel, something else entirely?

Tom - my Blue [Red?] Spruce DT chisel is magnificent. The edges are perfect for what you are describing. I have just one @ 5/16" that handles everything. No real help on digging our the blind inside corners though. To be honest, I hack away with whatever I have handy [not my BS DT though], and then rasp the tail's corner away so there is no interference with the trash I leave behind and bury with the glue-up

[David Carroll]

I use a small palm carving tool made by Pfeill. It's essentially a fishtail skew. It does a great job.

DC

[Jim Koepke]

18 degree skews work well.

509619

My recollection is mine are about 30º. IMO that is too much. I have been able to work with them but on my to do list is to lessen the angle next time they take a trip to the grinder.

jtk

[Jimmy Harris]

Whatever I have handy is what I use. I don't own any specific tools for that. I usually just grab a bench chisel, but I've been known to grab a pocket knife or whatever else is handy.

[Jim Koepke]

Whatever I have handy is what I use. I don't own any specific tools for that. I usually just grab a bench chisel, but I've been known to grab a pocket knife or whatever else is handy.

One of the advantages of a skewed chisel is the ability to press its edge flat into the area where a tail or pin meets the base line. If waste is left in one of these corners it can cause a gap to show at the base line.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

This topic comes up every now-and-then. Eventually I post these photos, so you may have seen them before.

A skew chisel does not cut in the push into the corner, and needs to be twisted away to slice fibres ....

https://i.postimg.cc/KGzTfcy1/Dovetailfishtailcutting3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

A fishtail chisel cuts with a forward push. This makes it more efficient than using a skew ..

https://i.postimg.cc/jx58frgX/Dovetailfishtailcutting2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I began using shopmade fishtail chisels after watching Rob Cosman about 20 years ago. I now have a few shopmade and custom fishtail chisels, and they all get used. The skew chisels do not.

The best fishtail in my experience is the Blue Spruce (centre). The others here are a custom Koyamaichi (top) and a shopmade Veritas (bottom), the latter from a 3/8" straight pre-production spare I had lying around.

https://i.postimg.cc/PtdGq0yj/3a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

These are all sharpened at 30 degrees. They are all sharp enough to cut through (very) hardwood end grain, and hold the edge. Lower angles do not hold an edge in my woods.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Here are a few more of mine for tight spots.

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This thread has given me fishtail envy. I will be looking for one that meets the price point of our family gift exchange and put it on my wish list.

[John C Cox]

In a blind corner, I'll relieve the corners/points of of the dovetail tenon where it would be hidden, I only leave the corners sharp at the visible end.

Otherwise, I love my Blue Spruce paring chisel with its undercut bevel edges that are super fine.

[Jim Koepke]

A skew chisel does not cut in the push into the corner, and needs to be twisted away to slice fibres ....

I should have included that my use of a skew was for through dovetails. A fishtail chisel is desirable in half blind dovetails.

jtk

[Ben Ellenberger]

In a blind corner, I'll relieve the corners/points of of the dovetail tenon where it would be hidden, I only leave the corners sharp at the visible end.

Otherwise, I love my Blue Spruce paring chisel with its undercut bevel edges that are super fine.

I’m glad I’m not the only savage! I don’t fuss too much about making inside corners of half-blind dovetail pins pretty. I clear out the waste the best I can with a regular chisel and relieve a little bit from the tail. As long as the joint goes together, has good contact area, and looks good, I consider it a success.

[Richard Hutchings]

This topic comes up every now-and-then. Eventually I post these photos, so you may have seen them before.

A skew chisel does not cut in the push into the corner, and needs to be twisted away to slice fibres ....

https://i.postimg.cc/KGzTfcy1/Dovetailfishtailcutting3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

A fishtail chisel cuts with a forward push. This makes it more efficient than using a skew ..

https://i.postimg.cc/jx58frgX/Dovetailfishtailcutting2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I began using shopmade fishtail chisels after watching Rob Cosman about 20 years ago. I now have a few shopmade and custom fishtail chisels, and they all get used. The skew chisels do not.

The best fishtail in my experience is the Blue Spruce (centre). The others here are a custom Koyamaichi (top) and a shopmade Veritas (bottom), the latter from a 3/8" straight pre-production spare I had lying around.

https://i.postimg.cc/PtdGq0yj/3a.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

These are all sharpened at 30 degrees. They are all sharp enough to cut through (very) hardwood end grain, and hold the edge. Lower angles do not hold an edge in my woods.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Now I'll have to add, modifying one of my chisels into a fishtail. Thanks for giving me another project Derek.:mad:

[Dan Kraakenes]

Would this Pfeil 1f chisel be any good?
Actually not 100% sure if its flat on underside.

Ranges from 6, 8, 12, 14, 16 mm, etc… strangly no 10mm.

509782

Says Single Bevel here, but some photos makes it look like double Bevel.

509783

[Richard Hutchings]

The Number 1F is a straight flat fishtail chisel with a thin and light blade to easily reach difficult areas as the cutting edge is broader than the shaft.

[Prashun Patel]

I have Narex skews. I hate them. Derek is right. A fishtail is the way (for me) to go.

I have the Lie Nielsen version. It has exactly the right ergonomics and size for this task.

[Dan Kraakenes]

Just found out the Narex Richter 1/8’’ is shaped more like a mortise, with nearly no bevels (for small Dovetail work)

Would a 3/8ish Fishtail chisel work well for the work a 1/8 Bevel Edge Chisel is supposed to do?

Might splurge for a Blue Spruce instead, since it would have more utility.

[Jim Koepke]

…

Would a 3/8ish Fishtail chisel work well for the work a 1/8 Bevel Edge Chisel is supposed to do?

Remember the chisel has to be smaller than the space between the tails to be of any use.

Realized this when my first skew chisels were made from 1/2" chisels.

It might be easier to find an inexpensive 1/4" chisel at a junk store or estate sale and grind your own.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

A 3/8" chisel is a good size to shape into a fishtail for the corners of half-blind sockets. I have made several over the years. This one started out life as a spare 3/8" Veritas O1 ...

https://i.postimg.cc/fDQ94Rrx/Veritas-fishtail3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Below is the travel kit for demonstratig dovetailing at wood shows. In addition to the marking tools and fishtail chisel, there is a kerfing tool (to extend the kerf depth), which helps with the removal of wasteas well.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZbpCbBXc/4.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

None if these items are essential. It is possible to make decent dovetails without all. However, they do make the job easier, and I prefer to use them for this reason.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Todd Zucker]

From the original post I’m not sure the OP was referring to half blinds. I tried through dovetails with Japanese chisels for a while, and the blunt edges (lands) messed up the sides of the dovetails. If the OP was referring to through dovetails, switching to chisels with sharper lands would resolve his issue. After getting new chisels, I ended up with cuts all over my fingers for a while until I got the hang of it, but the dovetails had crisp edges.

[Derek Cohen]

From the original post I’m not sure the OP was referring to half blinds. I tried through dovetails with Japanese chisels for a while, and the blunt edges (lands) messed up the sides of the dovetails. If the OP was referring to through dovetails, switching to chisels with sharper lands would resolve his issue. After getting new chisels, I ended up with cuts all over my fingers for a while until I got the hang of it, but the dovetails had crisp edges.

Mmm .. Todd, you did not get my memo about Japanese oire nomi and dovetailing (or any bench chisel with high sides for that matter) :) ...

https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels.html

(This was published in FWW magazine as well)


Summary ....

The square sides of the chisel are shaped to angle at 9.5 degrees, which is a 1:6 ratio.

The jig is a platform at 9.5 degrees …


https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels_html_m218a23f8.jpg

Belt sanders grind without much heat, unlike bench grinders. Keep your fingers on the blade and dunk it in cool water if it heats up.


Simply place the side of the chisel against the belt, and pull it across the face. Keeping it moving will reduce the chance of heat focussing on one spot.




https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels_html_5174f15d.jpg


The side of the blade will grind from the upper side down, and this makes it quite easy to keep track of where the grinding is taking place. The process is far easier than one might expect, and a side of the blade may be completed in just several light runs across the belt. It is possible to vary pressure if one end is grinding faster than the other end.


Eventually, you will reach this stage …


https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels_html_m587c583b.jpg


For Japanese chisels, which are blackened, it is possible to return the colour using black oxide. This is one I sourced in Australia ..




https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels_html_m2692c6a3.jpg


The result, after just a few minutes, looks like it was never modified. I like that – it looks original.


https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BenchChiselsintoDovetailChisels_html_m3511ab9f.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek