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Richard Hutchings
10-26-2023, 1:02 PM
Do any of you go right from the plane to applying finish? That is my goal if possible. I'm pretty sure I can do it with edges, not so much on wide surfaces. After this mornings sharpening and fettling with my 5 1/2 Stanley, I'm wondering if the finish would even stick to it.

Christopher Charles
10-26-2023, 1:20 PM
Yes, definitely. One trick is to burnish the surface using a fist full of plane shavings.

That shiny surface is the drug, no?

Richard Hutchings
10-26-2023, 1:34 PM
That shiny surface is the drug, no?

Absolutely. Almost everything about hand planing is.

Michael Bulatowicz
10-26-2023, 2:41 PM
I like to use oil finishes straight off the plane. No burnishing.

Here's a recent example.
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Warren Mickley
10-26-2023, 2:51 PM
I stopped sanding in 1978, when I realized that a planed surface was finer before sanding than after.

Jimmy Harris
10-26-2023, 2:56 PM
That's the goal. I try to avoid sandpaper if I can, but I'm not afraid to dig it out if it's needed. I like sanding. It's meditative. But it's also slow.

Richard Hutchings
10-26-2023, 3:10 PM
Absolutely gorgeous!

Richard Hutchings
10-26-2023, 3:11 PM
I stopped sanding in 1978, when I realized that a planed surface was finer before sanding than after.

Dang, why did it take me so long to realize this.

David Carroll
10-26-2023, 3:47 PM
I mostly gave up sanding about 10 years after Warren. I do sand between coats of finish (unless I am using tung oil or something similar. One time I do sand is if I am applying paint, sometimes the surface straight off the plane is too smooth.

DC

steven c newman
10-26-2023, 6:19 PM
I do sand, as NEEDED...as sometimes a plane or a scraper just can't get in thar..

"I stopped sanding in...." Yeah, that shark skin stuff is hard to come by, ain't it....

Andrew Hughes
10-26-2023, 6:23 PM
I also prefer a handplaned surface to a sanded one. Sanding dust is nasty
Something I found out with Alder a handplaned edge is very water resistant. A scuff with 220 or scotch brute pad is good insurance for pva glue.
Alder trees can grow half in half out next to streams. They like it.

Rafael Herrera
10-26-2023, 11:00 PM
Do any of you go right from the plane to applying finish? That is my goal if possible. I'm pretty sure I can do it with edges, not so much on wide surfaces. After this mornings sharpening and fettling with my 5 1/2 Stanley, I'm wondering if the finish would even stick to it.

I finish with a plane as well and avoid sanding as much as I can.

Are you also using a no. 4 or 3 smoother? It'd pay to contrast the surfaces, a 5 1/2 could be made to work as a smoother, but it's a pretty large plane.

If using a sharp and well setup smoother, you can achieve surfaces that are glossy and can produce a reflection. I've used wipe on finishes and shellac and have had good results.

Rafael

Mel Fulks
10-27-2023, 2:02 AM
Horse-tail reed has been around since the dinosaurs. Your kids probably won’t eat it, but make sure they don’t brush their teeth with it.
Grit range on my range is 180 to 220. Range of use is big ,running from new very old gimmick to ‘tried and true’ to ‘old timer’s delight’

Warren Mickley
10-27-2023, 6:44 AM
Dang, why did it take me so long to realize this.

I took me a while also.

Fifty years ago most books said the ideal was to plane, then scrape, then sand. After a while I realized that my planing was good enough that the scraping was a waste of time, so abandoned I the scraper, but then it was still a couple years before I realized the sanding was degrading the surface.

Mark Rainey
10-27-2023, 9:55 AM
This remains a controversial area. A hand plane finish can be beautiful, but it requires expertise. Warren, who has profound hand tool skills, and several other Neanders above believe in this. I have pursued this also and finally got what I consider a (near) perfect table top with handplaning (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?305008-A-method-of-mortising/page3) But, still, most expert woodworkers will use sandpaper, especially if their piece is displayed or large. Some possible reasons are that only a few are so skilled to use a hand plane to get that perfect finish, so they find it easier to sand. Another possibility is that with irregular grain and small knots, the finish with sandpaper is more regular than ever can be achieved with a hand plane. While very minor irregularity in surface rarely detracts from a piece, we don't accept this and will use sandpaper in the end. Additionally almost all the pieces shown are smaller pieces and I have not seen any pics of larger tables planed. Larger surfaces are much more challenging. I will keep trying.

Michael Bulatowicz
10-27-2023, 12:11 PM
This remains a controversial area. A hand plane finish can be beautiful, but it requires expertise. Warren, who has profound hand tool skills, and several other Neanders above believe in this. I have pursued this also and finally got what I consider a (near) perfect table top with handplaning (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?305008-A-method-of-mortising/page3) But, still, most expert woodworkers will use sandpaper, especially if their piece is displayed or large. Some possible reasons are that only a few are so skilled to use a hand plane to get that perfect finish, so they find it easier to sand. Another possibility is that with irregular grain and small knots, the finish with sandpaper is more regular than ever can be achieved with a hand plane. While very minor irregularity in surface rarely detracts from a piece, we don't accept this and will use sandpaper in the end. Additionally almost all the pieces shown are smaller pieces and I have not seen any pics of larger tables planed. Larger surfaces are much more challenging. I will keep trying.

I’m nowhere near Warren’s level of skill or knowledge of woodworking, but here’s some unfinished knotty pine off the plane (side of a storage cubby in progress). I haven’t done the final smooth planing yet—that’ll be done after the joinery is finished. You be the judge.

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Sorry for the rotated photos.

Mark Rainey
10-27-2023, 12:26 PM
Very fine surface Michael! I think the ease of sanding has retarded our hand plane skills. I also think our not accepting a "perfect" surface steers us towards sanding. Here is a passage from a dedicated Neander:

It's pretty difficult to get a large surface like that perfect enough to apply a high gloss finish.

If you learn to set the cap iron and sharpen well, you can get a very smooth tearout-free surface without needing to scrape. For best results, you also need to get it flat enough that you can take a series of very thin shavings with a smoother that are full-length from one end of the table to the other, with no low spots that the plane skips, and with each pass overlapping with the previous. Anywhere the blade comes out of the cut will leave a visible mark once you start getting finish on.

This can be frustrating to achieve on something wider, especially if there is any flexing of the piece going on. Even when I manage that, I still see some little scallops once I build up the gloss enough. It isn't really plane tracks, but more like the camber of the blade (which is tiny on a smoother) showing where the passes overlap. It's not apparent from all angles but in the right light I could see them.

If I use a thinner finish like a light french polish, OSMO, or danish oil, the little scallops aren't noticeable, and I do think the result is a little "livelier" than a sanded surface. Especially with an oil finish, it can increase the amount of blotching (or figure, depending on how you look at it) versus sanding to a higher grit like 400.

So on those kinds of surfaces I would hand plane until very flat, no tearout, but not go all the way to perfection. Then get out my half-sheet sander and go from 150 up to whatever grit. This gives me a flat surface that is very even in terms of taking finish.

Flatness is very important for the high gloss finish to look good, and hand planes will get you there if you don't have a wide belt sander. I've seen some slab tables where they just went to town on a rough milled slab with a ROS, and with a high gloss finish you can see every dip and wave, with all the knotty or crotchy areas standing proud.

Michael Bulatowicz
10-27-2023, 4:39 PM
Absolutely gorgeous!
Thank you, Richard.

With practice and a properly set up plane, you can get the same kind of surface straight off the plane. Just keep working at it!

Scott Winners
10-27-2023, 8:51 PM
The trouble I have planing wider surfaces is my rotator cuffs just aren't as good as they used to be. If a panel is much over about 15 inches or so wide I am going to have to go around the other side. Over 30 inches I would likely have to climb up on top of it to reach the middle.

I prefer to apply finish straight off whichever iron edge tool, but when I have to sand one little spot here or two little spots over there I don't beat myself up over it.

On wild grain I have been burnishing with a with a thing from Don's Barn dot com, a polissoir. I like the big fat ones in my arthritic hands.

https://donsbarn.com/pollisoirs/

Charles Edward
10-29-2023, 9:54 AM
Watch this ALL THE WAY TO THE END if you think scrapers don't work well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8wrqiHJz00

Frederick Skelly
10-29-2023, 10:43 AM
Yes. My smoothers leave a finish good enough to go straight to the finish.

Mel Fulks
10-29-2023, 10:55 AM
Frederick, that is a significant accomplishment . Congratulations ! No way I could do that. You are a serious talent .

Aaron Liebling
10-29-2023, 9:58 PM
I find a ton depends on the wood I'm working with and the scale. Anything highly figured and wide, I end up sanding. I'm sure someone better than I could manage them, but I inevitably have tear out. Smaller scale and especially nice straight grain is good straight from the plane blade.