Bed Frame Question

[cody michael]

I am planning on a bed frame build, I am hoping to avoid a center leg due to my floor being wavy and my wife liking to move the bed. I saw these plans using a 2x4 under the slats/plywood to support the slats/plywood. Do you guys think it would be strong enough to support a king size bed? I was thinking of using some ash I have have for the support under the slats, some like at least a true 1x4 maybe 2x4. I would probably do slats with OSB on top then place the bed on top.

For the side rails of the bed I am planning walnut as thick as I can keep it (5/4 right now but rough) probably 8in tall to look good and support the rails.

When I put it in the sagulator it says acceptable for ash 1x4 it can support 600lbs, I would have 2 of the supports in the middle, and side rails will take some of the weight, my wife and I combines are well under 600lbs lol.

Has anyone used these bed frame hardware setups? They look great for my usage but I want a firm frame.

https://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-wrought-steel-bed-rail-fasteners-4-pack-select-size

[Kent A Bathurst]

When I put it in the sagulator it says acceptable for ash 1x4 it can support 600lbs, I would have 2 of the supports in the middle, and side rails will take some of the weight

What is the length of the supports? When the sagulator says "acceptable", what does that mean? How much will they sag under load, with support only at the two ends? 1 x 4 seems dicey to me, to be honest.

[cody michael]

What is the length of the supports? When the sagulator says "acceptable", what does that mean? How much will they sag under load, with support only at the two ends? 1 x 4 seems dicey to me, to be honest.

I was planning on more of a 1.5x4 or 2x4 need to see what I have lol. Just used 1x4 for worst case, they are 80in long for king size bed, at 600lbs it sags 0.09 in total. That is 600lbs on one support the weight on the bed would be divided between the 2 supports and 2 side rails.

[Kent A Bathurst]

That sounds really good.

Now - I'm not too sure about the OSB slats? No real experience in using it like this - will they hold up? How long before the odor dissipates?

[Curt Harms]

That sounds really good.

Now - I'm not too sure about the OSB slats? No real experience in using it like this - will they hold up? How long before the odor dissipates?

OSB for the slats? I would hope not, especially over that span. SWMBO had a single Euro style bed with slats. they were approximately 1 X 4 solid soft wood (I think) kept spaced with a fabric ribbon sort of like you might find on lawn chair backs/seats stapled to the slats. The picture shows pockets into which the slats fit. That should work as well.

[Mel Fulks]

Have not used them. I would only use the the traditional bed BOLTS with the ‘implanted’ nuts . Strong ,sturdy, quiet.

[Darrell Bade]

I have a bed with that hardware. It works fine and has lasted. I have seen others that I thought I might try next time that does not require a mortise.

[Aaron Liebling]

I used that hardware on a king-sized bed hardwood bed and they're holding up. That said, screwing in to end grain is suboptimal. I had to use really really long screws. If I was doing it again, I'd go with the bed bolt and implanted nut.

[Jamie Buxton]

The supports under the slats are going to be on edge, not flat, right? That’s important.

I’d make the supports taller than your 2x4. Beam stiffness goes up with the cube of the height. Your side rails are 8” tall, so there’s no reason to use supports that are small I’d go with 6” or even 8” tall.

[Jonathan Jung]

I built the bed for my wife and I, custom mattress larger than california king, with no support for slats. The slats are dressed fir 2x4s and span the entire distance. Combined we are 330lbs and after 4 years of use it's been fine. Foam mattress sits right on the slats.

[James Jayko]

I've used that sort of bed hardware and its been fine.

That said, and this is all intuition and no numbers, but I feel like the additional support of some center rails help displace some of the weight which will now be completely held by the outside frame. I'd go with bed bolts and a captured nut or something like that...feels like you're pushing it a bit too far with no center support and all that weight on ~#8 screws....

[cody michael]

OSB for the slats? I would hope not, especially over that span. SWMBO had a single Euro style bed with slats. they were approximately 1 X 4 solid soft wood (I think) kept spaced with a fabric ribbon sort of like you might find on lawn chair backs/seats stapled to the slats. The picture shows pockets into which the slats fit. That should work as well.

Sorry I wasn't clear. OSB over top of slats, my mattress needs a solid foundation, I don't think just slats would be enough. I was going to do slats, probably ash since I have a lot and then osb or plywood over top to make a smooth surface.

[cody michael]

The supports under the slats are going to be on edge, not flat, right? That’s important.

I’d make the supports taller than your 2x4. Beam stiffness goes up with the cube of the height. Your side rails are 8” tall, so there’s no reason to use supports that are small I’d go with 6” or even 8” tall.

supports are vertical, I need space for the slats, I want some flat solid surface either OSB or plywood on top of slats and I want the mattress an inch or 2 into the frame. I also need some space underneath the bracing to attach to head and footboard unless I use that hardware kit I linked above for the middle braces and legs which is an option.

That is how I came up with the 4in idea.

[John TenEyck]

Make a torsion box and solve all the issues. No need for mid support and 100% support for the mattress. I built a torsion box about 3" thick for a Murphy double bed and it sags not one little bit. I used poplar for the internals and 1/4" plywood for the skins. I'm not sure how thick it would need to be for a king size bed, but I bet not much, if any, thicker.

John

[lou Brava]

We have a queen size bed in guest room that has 5 1x4 pine slats the slats are also full of knots, looking at em I would think they wouldn't hold up but we've had the bed for about 25 years we used to sleep on it every night. It's been through a few mattresses and some large couples sleeping on it no problem. So 1x4 Ash will work no problem you wouldnt need any OSB if you have a box spring.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Make a torsion box.......

John

John - I admire all of your work and knowledge, including this one. Clearly, it is possible to over-engineer the heck out of anything if one tries. I should know - I do it at every opportunity.

Hat's off on this one.

[Jim Becker]

A king sized bed without a center support is going to require a really, really, really stout structure to avoid sagging and bouncing and cracking apart. (And I mean just from normal movement, "mattress olympics' aside) They are even common on queen sized at this point.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Jim. My method would be a wood cube or two UNDER the bed .

[Brian Runau]

I used two side to side supports equally spaced with an adjustable foot. Use nylon foot, not rubber. Rubbed stained an area rug. Top of the Support can be designed with same height as side supports so your 3/4 osb can go on top, no slats. Brian

[cody michael]

We have a queen size bed in guest room that has 5 1x4 pine slats the slats are also full of knots, looking at em I would think they wouldn't hold up but we've had the bed for about 25 years we used to sleep on it every night. It's been through a few mattresses and some large couples sleeping on it no problem. So 1x4 Ash will work no problem you wouldnt need any OSB if you have a box spring.

I am planning on getting rid of the box spring, otherwise it will be like 5ft tall lol. I have seen some pretty wimpy looking slats that have held up though.

[cody michael]

Make a torsion box and solve all the issues. No need for mid support and 100% support for the mattress. I built a torsion box about 3" thick for a Murphy double bed and it sags not one little bit. I used poplar for the internals and 1/4" plywood for the skins. I'm not sure how thick it would need to be for a king size bed, but I bet not much, if any, thicker.

John

I will think about it, they are amazing, I built a shed door as a torsion box, it feels like a bank vault lol. I would need to make it in at least 2 boxs though to get it up my stairs.

[Ted Calver]

I remember a couple of bed building videos posted by Charles Neil a few years ago that had some good info. He made T-slats (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdNcmLRMKgQ) that were super strong and eliminated the need for a center post. I used the idea a few months back to build slats for a friend's queen size bed and they really worked. He also has a good video on using bed bolts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJC0Mz1B6aM&t=14s).

[John TenEyck]

I will think about it, they are amazing, I built a shed door as a torsion box, it feels like a bank vault lol. I would need to make it in at least 2 boxs though to get it up my stairs.

Yes, you would need two, just like the box springs for a king sized bed. The advantage of two units is there will be a double rib down the centerline where they meet, adding to the stiffness. And, if desired, it would be easy to add an adjustable center support, or anywhere else, by means of a dado in one of the center ribs into which the support is bolted or screwed before adding the other torsion box. Adding a spline or other means to join the two boxes together would make them behave as one unit, too.

John

[Curt Harms]

Sorry I wasn't clear. OSB over top of slats, my mattress needs a solid foundation, I don't think just slats would be enough. I was going to do slats, probably ash since I have a lot and then osb or plywood over top to make a smooth surface.

I guess it depends on the mattress. I've checked into memory foam mattress and like Jonathan it seems that the mattress directly on slats is okay, I don't recall what slat spacing was recommended. A sheet of OSB can't hurt though.

[Jim Becker]

I would not use OSB or similar for this kind of project for multiple reasons...splintery which can damage a mattress being one of them. While most mattresses today are designed to work fine on platforms, having ventilation under them is also a good thing which is why slats are so popular. The slats can be heavy Tee-shaped like was mentioned eariler to handle more load, but even then, I remain convinced that a center support for something as large as a king sized bed is a good idea. The robotic vacuum will deal with it just fine. :D

[Scott Bernstein]

I made a queen size bed with hickory. The side rails of the main frame are 8/4 x 12" wide boards. The headboard and footboard are also 8/4 hickory using frame and panel construction. The side rails attach to the foot and headboard with mortised bedrail hardware from Rockler...just slide in to lock. I have only four legs with no center leg. My slats are 4/4 poplar boards. In the mid-span I have a 8/4 x 8" wide white oak board going from the head to foot. It attaches with sliding dovetails to the center of the header & footer and supports the slats very well. The bed is SOLID. I'm quite sure I could park a car on it. I don't know what it weighs, but probably hundreds of pounds.

SB

[Mark Kanof]

I used one of these for a king size bed as support under the slats. We are a few years into that bed and so far so good.

https://www.knickerbockerbedframe.com/shop/product/sample-product/lazarbeam-steel-slat-system/

[Alan Lightstone]

I remember a couple of bed building videos posted by Charles Neil a few years ago that had some good info. He made T-slats (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdNcmLRMKgQ) that were super strong and eliminated the need for a center post. I used the idea a few months back to build slats for a friend's queen size bed and they really worked. He also has a good video on using bed bolts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJC0Mz1B6aM&t=14s).
I miss Charles. Great to take a course from, or just e-mail with questions. Always fun.

That video was very interesting too.

[Ted Calver]

I miss Charles. Great to take a course from, or just e-mail with questions. Always fun.

That video was very interesting too.

Not sure about using bondo to secure the bed rail nut though. I think I'll just leave it open, or use a bolt cover.

[Jim Dwight]

I've made 7 beds that I remember all platform beds without a boxed spring. I built a torsion box structure for one my son and his wife now use and it is very firm. I don't know what they weigh but neither of them is small. But that requires more height. I built the bed to a plan that assumed a boxed spring so the torsion box used up that space. My more recent beds have had either slats or 3/4 plywood to support the mattress but never both. 5 of the beds I've made are queen size, no kings. I haven't done the calculations but I think the plywood deflects more. I haven't had any issue due to the lower "breathing" of the plywood support under the mattress. I've never put in a center support. I haven't made a king yet but my daughter and son-in-law are talking about one.

I think your ash slats are plenty stout and may not need to be T shaped. I don't think bed slats need to be as sturdy as a shelf or a house floor. If it deflects 3/4 inch I don't think you'd know it. The resulting angle is slight. But less deflection will translate into a firmer feeling bed. So I think it depends some on how soft your mattress is and how firm you want the bed to be. If you want to put something on top of the slats you can but I would not do it for structural reasons. You might even think of using 1/4 masonite or 5mm plywood. T shaped ash slats are going to give you a very firm bed. If you space them around an inch apart I don't think you really need anything but the mattress on top. I made my daughter a full sized bed with 3/4 baltic birch slats spaced about an inch apart when she was still in college. That bed is now in her guest room and my ex wife and I slept on it. The bed was small for the two of us but there was no noticable deflection due to our >350 lbs combined weight. I'm sure they deflected some but we did not notice it.

[Holmes Anderson]

Maybe you should take a look at the joist span tables for framing. 2x4 12" OC should provide adequate support if the load is distributed but a king is close to max span in either direction.