cell phone support

[Dave Fritz]

I have an iPhone 7 plus. The Apple support app will not load because you have to have ios 16 or higher to do so. I have 15.7.9 so it won't load. I'm wondering if those of you that use android phones have built in obsolesce also? I really like this phone and don't see a need to change.

[Steve Demuth]

I don't know of any Android phone manufacturers with support windows longer than 7 years (which is what Google declares for its current crop of Pixels). The Android OS itself typically is support for 4 years, and many Android phone manufacturers don't update the OS to new major versions after device release.

Overall, I doubt you can improve your support life experience by switching to Android.

(And, for the record, I don't own, like or recommend Apple phones. I have always had Android phones and have no intention of ever owning an Apple device. I am familiar with them only because I had to support them on a corporate network for years).

[Bill Dufour]

When we moved in three years ago there was a fancy online thermostat. The only way to adjust the schedule was with wifi. Actual switches allowed us to turn off the ac/heat and not run the schedule. I bought a newer android phone because my old operating system was too old for the thermostat app.
Dumb design. Do not buy a Sensi thermostat. Only one phone can control it at a time. If you download the app onto another phone it disables the app on the first phone. To retake control you must be inside the house and reestablish the link. It can not be done remotely because you have to push buttons on the wall to start the process.
Bill D

[Brian Elfert]

I don't know of any Android phone manufacturers with support windows longer than 7 years (which is what Google declares for its current crop of Pixels). The Android OS itself typically is support for 4 years, and many Android phone manufacturers don't update the OS to new major versions after device release.


My boss recommended I stick with Apple because he though they have a longer support period. He apparently thought the Pixel was only supported for three years. He is a Pixel 4 or 5 so he only gets updates for three years. I would have possibly switched to the Pixel had I realized they have gone to a seven year support period. I stuck with Apple and got an iPhone 14.

[Steve Demuth]

It just boggles my mind that anyone would think that having their thermostat online and/or on their cell phone is in any way a good thing. So, other than avoiding Sensi, how do you like the online thermostat? Is it an actual improvement in your quality of life over having one on the wall?

[George Yetka]

Nobody schedules obsoletion as well as apple. I had 2 devices an ipad and a phone that became paper weights. I couldnt download software or update anything on them one day when I woke up. Not only that they are still paying off the lawsuit for a programmed downgrade of your devices.

Android will stop updating eventually I believe(not sure) but they wont stop your ability to download anything 1 day

[Jim Becker]

Manufacturers of Android devices have the same challenges as Apple does with iOS devices for continued OS upgrade support, both because of computing power and security advancements. It doesn't really matter which ecosystem you are in...the same issue is going to occur when you choose to hold onto a device for a long time. These things are computers. It's the nature of the beast. You can upgrade to something like the SE new or upgrade to a pre-owned, but much newer device, if support for applications and current security threats are important. You could also switch to a low-cost Android device if you are ok with learning something that's going to be a little different than you are used to.

[roger wiegand]

My Iphone 5 is long past upgrading, on the other hand it still works for many purposes (I use it now primarily as a music player and MIDI controller). An antique operating system seems appropriate for operating an antique phone. Similarly, my "unsupported" 13 year old MacBook is humming along, albeit somewhat slowly. It got a new battery last year and is good as new for most things -- it's been a long time since anyone introduced a novel "must have" feature into an OS. A couple of programs that require annual updates (eg TurboTax) won't run on it anymore, but I blame the bean counters at Intuit who milk their cash cows for all they're worth for that.

[Bill Dufour]

It just boggles my mind that anyone would think that having their thermostat online and/or on their cell phone is in any way a good thing. So, other than avoiding Sensi, how do you like the online thermostat? Is it an actual improvement in your quality of life over having one on the wall?.
It is nice if were are in bed and I can check if we set the thermostat down or off for the nigh while staying under the blankets. I normally turn the furnace off at bed time in winter and will bump it up if my wife gets too cold.
It is nice if we are out when it is 110 and know we will be home in 15 minutes. Turn on the ac remotely. We leave it set for off or 85-88 if we are out in. summer.
It is much easier to program the thermostat schedule sitting at the dining room table rather then in a dimly lit hallway where the thermostat is located.
BillD D.

[Bill Howatt]

... Similarly, my "unsupported" 13 year old MacBook is humming along, albeit somewhat slowly. It got a new battery last year and is good as new for most things -- it's been a long time since anyone introduced a novel "must have" feature into an OS. A couple of programs that require annual updates (eg TurboTax) won't run on it anymore, but I blame the bean counters at Intuit who milk their cash cows for all they're worth for that.

I wouldn't be too quick to blame Intuit - Apple computers are notorious for their lack of compatibility with newer software. I follow a high-end music editing program and the Apple users are always asking if the software will run on their version of the Mac OS, often to their dismay.

[Pat Germain]

We can shake our fists at "planned obsolescence" all the we like, but security is a primary driver for OS and hardware upgrades. We might think we're smart for continuing to use older platforms because, "They still work fine!", but doing so opens up all kinds of security issues. Older operating systems and older phones are MUCH easier to hack. This may not seem like such a big deal until pictures of our daughters are stolen and uploaded to porn sites.

[Derek Meyer]

It just boggles my mind that anyone would think that having their thermostat online and/or on their cell phone is in any way a good thing. So, other than avoiding Sensi, how do you like the online thermostat? Is it an actual improvement in your quality of life over having one on the wall?

I have the Honeywell smart thermostat, that I can access via an app on my phone from anywhere. It has been a big quality of life improvement for us, as I can make changes to temperature and operating mode remotely. My mother-in-law lives with us and has no idea how to operate the thermostat, so she will call me and say "I'm cold" or "It's hot in here" and I can look remotely and adjust it for her.

Now, if only I could control the fireplace remotely....

[Michael Schuch]

I had to upgrade my 2017 LG V20 (Android) to my 2020 LG V60 (Android) just to maintain service. The V20 wasn't 5G compatible the V60 is. The V20 was a better phone, for me at least. My LG V60 is working fine and I hope to get another year or two out of it.

Apple people should stay with Apple, they will get very frustrated with the Android interface. As an Android user I could never put up with the limitations of an Apple phone!

I haven't bought a new phone in over 10 years. I always buy used top of the line phones 1 to 2 generations old and pay about 20% - 40% of a new phone. I also believe in using a real camera for taking pictures but a phone is fine for quick snapshots (i.e. product numbers and prices for comparison, etc.)

[Bill Howatt]

Every thread should have a dumb question and today I feel it is my turn to ask it!

Why does one need 5G speed on a cell phone? I have a LTE phone that just tested out by Ookla Speedtest as 92 Mbps down and 12.5 Mbps upload. This download speed is almost twice as fast as the 50Mbps connection I use at home with no problem.

[Brian Elfert]

Nobody schedules obsoletion as well as apple. I had 2 devices an ipad and a phone that became paper weights. I couldnt download software or update anything on them one day when I woke up. Not only that they are still paying off the lawsuit for a programmed downgrade of your devices.

Android will stop updating eventually I believe(not sure) but they wont stop your ability to download anything 1 day

I have never heard of Apple deliberately stopping app downloads. Now, the app developers themselves will come out with new versions of their app that will no longer work with older Apple devices. I only use Apple because that was what my employer gave me as my first smartphone about a decade ago. I'm no Apple evangelist. Heck, I found an old iPad Mini 3 from 2014 at work the other day that had been off for several years. I charged it up and it powered on just fine. The basics like Safari worked just fine.

My employer will no longer supply me with a phone. My Apple phone was to be obsolete as of last month so I researched a new phone in July. (I got six years out of it.) I seriously looked at the Pixel, but I ended up with an iPhone 14. Verizon had some promotional trade-in credits so I decided not to see if those credits would be around for the iPhone 15.

[Jim Becker]

I wouldn't be too quick to blame Intuit - Apple computers are notorious for their lack of compatibility with newer software. I follow a high-end music editing program and the Apple users are always asking if the software will run on their version of the Mac OS, often to their dismay.
There was a time when that was more true and when applications were 'different' between the MacOS version and the Windows version. That ship sailed quite a few versions back. Folks on older versions of both MacOS and Windows will suffer the same fate relative to applications that is the focus of this thread for wireless phones. Things change and it's difficult to hold onto old gear and expect to run current versions of some or even many applications because APIs change or go away and security accommodations block "work arounds" that some developers used to use for their own purposes.

[Brian Elfert]

I had to upgrade my 2017 LG V20 (Android) to my 2020 LG V60 (Android) just to maintain service. The V20 wasn't 5G compatible the V60 is. The V20 was a better phone, for me at least. My LG V60 is working fine and I hope to get another year or two out of it.


Why would you be forced to go to 5G? 4G/LTE is not being shut down any time soon. Are you sure it wasn't the 3G shutdown that killed your phone?

[Rich Konopka]

Manufacturers of Android devices have the same challenges as Apple does with iOS devices for continued OS upgrade support, both because of computing power and security advancements.

My mid-2014 MacBook Pro with 1Tb SSD and 16gb cannot be upgraded to the latest MacOS. It was rendered obsolete by Apple. It has plenty of disk and memory. It is how Tech companies are able to keep generating revenue.

I just did and Windows 11 upgrade check on my HP z820 workstation that has 128Gb memory and Dual Xeon processors. Microsoft states the processor is not supported.

There are no technical reasons why these systems cannot be supported with OS upgrades.

[Curt Harms]

My mid-2014 MacBook Pro with 1Tb SSD and 16gb cannot be upgraded to the latest MacOS. It was rendered obsolete by Apple. It has plenty of disk and memory. It is how Tech companies are able to keep generating revenue.

I just did and Windows 11 upgrade check on my HP z820 workstation that has 128Gb memory and Dual Xeon processors. Microsoft states the processor is not supported.

There are no technical reasons why these systems cannot be supported with OS upgrades.

I think there's something different about the way Windows drivers will be written going forward that require certain functions not found in older CPUs. I've read about it but don't really understand it. There is a way to install Windows 11 on machines that don't 'officially' support it. There are instructions on the interwebz but the simplest way is to download something called Rufus. Download Rufus then download a Windows 11 ISO from Microsoft. Use Rufus to create a Windows installation USB drive, choose what restrictions you want the installer to ignore. A big caveat is that Microsoft may or may not choose to support Windows installs created via the non-standard way.

[Brian Tymchak]

My Iphone 5 is long past upgrading, on the other hand it still works for many purposes (I use it now primarily as a music player and MIDI controller). An antique operating system seems appropriate for operating an antique phone. Similarly, my "unsupported" 13 year old MacBook is humming along, albeit somewhat slowly. It got a new battery last year and is good as new for most things -- it's been a long time since anyone introduced a novel "must have" feature into an OS. A couple of programs that require annual updates (eg TurboTax) won't run on it anymore, but I blame the bean counters at Intuit who milk their cash cows for all they're worth for that.

The technology that web sites and apps use has undergone significant change over the last 10 years. App and web developers can't affordably maintain multiple technologies within the code and still add new features. Been there. It becomes a pile of spaghetti and expensive (and sometimes impossible) to make changes and keep support for older APIs, older libraries, etc.

[Thomas McCurnin]

It's an Apple World, I just happen to live in it.

I loved my Apple 7, perfect size and worked for me, but the battery drain was enormous and changing the battery didn't help, so I just shrugged and bought a new small SE model. Battery lasts for a couple of days.

[Jim Becker]

My mid-2014 MacBook Pro with 1Tb SSD and 16gb cannot be upgraded to the latest MacOS. I
Actually you can if you are brave...you can use OpenCore Legacy Patcher to load the latest OS on your 2014 machine. I actually have a 2014 MacBook Air sitting here. (it was my daughter's and I traded her a 2012 MBP which was faster and more powerful and had new batteries for it) I may try the patcher just for grins, but honestly, I only use that machine as an emergency device and might use it for a small, cheap laser engraver in the shop if I ever get around to it. The Windows machine in my shop that runs the CNC cannot be upgraded to Win11 as it does not have the security chip and I'm not about to diddle with that. I can run Win11 under Parallels on my MacBook Pro, however, as there's software emulation for the security ship.

As consumers, we are certainly sensitive and not happy when latest software will not run on an older machine, but is any one of us was put in the position of the OS manufacturers, we'd almost certainly do the same thing as they have done for both practical and expense reasons. Remember, these companies don't work for us...they work for shareholders.

[Lee DeRaud]

It just boggles my mind that anyone would think that having their thermostat online and/or on their cell phone is in any way a good thing. So, other than avoiding Sensi, how do you like the online thermostat? Is it an actual improvement in your quality of life over having one on the wall?
At most twice a year, coming home from vacation, it would be nice if I could pre-cool the house because the 'Heat Monster' had moved in over SoCal while I was away.

File that under "Not Gonna Happen". I'm more tech-savvy than most, but so far I've had zero luck getting my Honeywell thermostat to play nice with any of the Samsung phones I've had since it was installed. And at this point I have zero desire to go on a scavenger hunt for a t-stat that will...just not worth the aggro.

[Bill George]

I loved my Blackberry's but they had to go, been with Apple for years no complaints. My Honeywell thermostat works great with the IPhone App, love being able to check temps and adjust from anywhere.

[Tom M King]

I like having all our security cameras, thermostats, a great camera and video camera in my pocket, etc., etc. Sometimes I take calls on it. It understands what I say to it also. Also, some apps are really convenient and save a bunch of time, like one that I can walk in a room, scan the camera all around, and it gives me an accurately measured 3D copy of the room. Another one identifies birds by their call. A sound meter. GPS navigation. on and on. You have to pay to play, but if you bought stock early enough it's more than paying for itself. I'm content to upgrade every other model or so. Pam upgraded hers to a 14 last Summer and it costs all of 6 bucks a month.

[Jim Becker]

Well, the washer, dryer, refrigerator and induction range talk to me. So does the front door lock, the security system and some outside lighting fixtures that we control using "smart" switch setups. The Mr Cool in the shop is communicative. And my Subaru talks to me, too. The Honeywell thermostat has that capability, but I never bothered setting that up since we only change the temp twice a year.

[Steve Demuth]

Yeah, it's increasingly clear to me that, notwithstanding that my professional responsibilities have been to bring advanced technology to bear on improving people's lives through better medical care, I am basically a creature of the past. I can't argue with a thing you say about your cell-phone enabled thermostat, and I'm glad it works for you, but I also can't imagine setting my own phone and thermostat up that way.

[Steve Demuth]

Well, the washer, dryer, refrigerator and induction range talk to me. So does the front door lock, the security system and some outside lighting fixtures that we control using "smart" switch setups. The Mr Cool in the shop is communicative. And my Subaru talks to me, too. The Honeywell thermostat has that capability, but I never bothered setting that up since we only change the temp twice a year.

I am so not ready for the 21st century. That all sounds like a script from a science fiction - horror fusion script, to me. I have one talking device - an Amazon Echo that my kids gave me a decade or so ago. I put it in the shop, where, literally, the only thing I have used it for is to pause and restart recorded books and podcasts, and maybe a few times a year, music, that I listen to when doing safe, relatively mindless tasks.

[Tom M King]

Even though our rental houses are just a few hundred yards away, there is no need to keep AC low or heat high when no one is there, or even on a lot of times. We'd be going in and out of them much more without the phone control. Security cameras let me see what's going on around them, and my shops, pastures, and barn without making the trips. I love it like this. I can see where it wouldn't matter if you stay home all the time and rarely turn the system off, but even in our house if we don't need anything on, I can turn them off from my chair or bed. Now if I can just get it to cut the grass.

[Lee DeRaud]

To be fair, there is one IoT/connected widget that I own and use: my garage-door opener. That app was set up once, has worked without glitch over three phones and uncountable Android updates, and keeps me from having to turn around a mile out because I can't remember if I closed the door while backing out of the driveway.

[Jim Becker]

Ah, Lee...I forgot the garage door opener in my previous post. :)

IoT isn't for everyone at this point. Some of us are comfortable with it and some are not. And either is ok.

[Brian Elfert]

At most twice a year, coming home from vacation, it would be nice if I could pre-cool the house because the 'Heat Monster' had moved in over SoCal while I was away.

File that under "Not Gonna Happen". I'm more tech-savvy than most, but so far I've had zero luck getting my Honeywell thermostat to play nice with any of the Samsung phones I've had since it was installed. And at this point I have zero desire to go on a scavenger hunt for a t-stat that will...just not worth the aggro.

Honeywell/Resideo also has a web version of the app that may work on your phone in a web browser. I have used it before, but I don't recall the URL off hand.

[Curt Harms]

Ah, Lee...I forgot the garage door opener in my previous post. :)

IoT isn't for everyone at this point. Some of us are comfortable with it and some are not. And either is ok.

I look at it as draw a horizontal line. One end is labeled convenient, the other end is labeled (pretty) secure. Pick your spot in the line. "But but but I want both!" Yeah, don't we all.

[Brian Elfert]

I only got a smart thermostat because it was free from my electric cooperative. Now, it was free because I had to enroll in their air conditioning control system. I was already using air conditioning control through a radio receiver box on the side of my house anyhow so I wasn't really changing anything. I can override the temperature settings on any day they control my air conditioning, but I lose my bill credit for the month. If they start messing with things too much I can just disconnect the thermostat from my Internet connection.

I like it for changing the settings just before getting home from a trip, but I probably would not but one if I had to pay full price.

[Jim Becker]

I look at it as draw a horizontal line. One end is labeled convenient, the other end is labeled (pretty) secure. Pick your spot in the line. "But but but I want both!" Yeah, don't we all.
I don't disagree. We each have "that spot" on the line where we have the mix of convenience and security that we are individually comfortable with.

[Michael Schuch]

I live out of town. The bandwidth on 4G gets crowded and calls don't go through. According to Verizon 5G will handle much more traffic at one time. Since upgrading to a 5G phone I haven't had any problems with making or receiving calls like I did before I upgraded. Before I upgraded service was continually getting worse.

Maybe the big cities are different?

[Curt Harms]

I live out of town. The bandwidth on 4G gets crowded and calls don't go through. According to Verizon 5G will handle much more traffic at one time. Since upgrading to a 5G phone I haven't had any problems with making or receiving calls like I did before I upgraded. Before I upgraded service was continually getting worse.

Maybe the big cities are different?

I'm no expert in these things but it sounds like the cell provider doesn't have enough 4G bandwidth in that area. I do remember reading that there are 2 'kinds' of 5G. One that will cover a larger area but isn't much faster than 4G and another that only covers about a city block but is very fast. Where I live I can just about see Comcast's corporate headquarters from my 2nd floor window. I have Comcast internet & cell service and am quite happy with them - $40 for both, introductory deal. I figure living near 'the flagpole' (near headquarters possibly having Comcast executive types living nearby) may have something to do with that.

[Jim Becker]

Curt, there are more than two "kinds" of 5G. Low band (slowest at or just above 4G speed, but farthest transmission), mid-band (noticeably better speed than 4G and now also includes "C" band which should should be familiar with being a pilot) and high-band which is "lickety split darn fast" but has short distance requirements between radios (1500-3000 feet max) and poor building penetration because of how high the frequencies are.

[ChrisA Edwards]

It just boggles my mind that anyone would think that having their thermostat online and/or on their cell phone is in any way a good thing. So, other than avoiding Sensi, how do you like the online thermostat? Is it an actual improvement in your quality of life over having one on the wall?

When we moved into our current house back in 2015, it have very old thermostats, which really didn't seem to work very well. We hav three zones, first floor, second floor and finished Attic bonus room. I installed Nest Thermostats, on each level/zone, and recently Nest Smoke detectors. Because we rarely use the attic, I monitor the temperature and can adjust any of the thermostats from my phone anywhere I have cell phone access.

[Curt Harms]

Curt, there are more than two "kinds" of 5G. Low band (slowest at or just above 4G speed, but farthest transmission), mid-band (noticeably better speed than 4G and now also includes "C" band which should should be familiar with being a pilot) and high-band which is "lickety split darn fast" but has short distance requirements between radios (1500-3000 feet max) and poor building penetration because of how high the frequencies are.

Yeah, there was a lot of paper/ink/electrons/photons expended on the "C" band thing. I had no first hand exposure to it, AFAIK it only really applied to really low visibility instrument approaches requiring the user of radar altimeter information. . Other countries solved the problem before it became a problem by either limiting cell sites within so many feet of the approach centerline to lower transmit power or restricted cell site location within so many feet of of the approach centerline or both. Development of better radar altimeter filters made the issue moot, it just took a while to develop and certify.

[Michael Schuch]

I'm no expert in these things but it sounds like the cell provider doesn't have enough 4G bandwidth in that area.

This is exactly the problem... and they told me they will not ever be installing additional 4G bandwidth in my area.

[Curt Harms]

This is exactly the problem... and they told me they will not ever be installing additional 4G bandwidth in my area.

Not really a surprise. I doubt any cellular provider is adding 4G capacity at this point, it'll be all 5G going forward.

[Jason Hennry]

I have an iPhone 7 plus. The Apple support app will not load because you have to have ios 16 or higher to do so. I have 15.7.9 so it won't load. I'm wondering if those of you that use android phones have built in obsolesce also? I really like this phone and don't see a need to change.

It seems like Apple's support app requires iOS 16 or higher, and unfortunately, your iPhone 7 Plus has the latest available version, which is iOS 15.7.9. This issue is specific to Apple devices, and Android phones typically do not face such forced obsolescence.

[Lee Schierer]

It just boggles my mind that anyone would think that having their thermostat online and/or on their cell phone is in any way a good thing. So, other than avoiding Sensi, how do you like the online thermostat? Is it an actual improvement in your quality of life over having one on the wall?

I have a thermostat that I can control from my phone via the internet. It is useful to be able to monitor and control things when we are away from home. I normally set our thermostat to keep the hose warmer in the summer and cooler in the winter whenever we will be away for more than a day or two. I also get messages if the power goes off or if there is a problem with the system.

I do have an android tablet that can no longer be updated to the new version of Android, which means that it cannot run apps that are written for the new operating system. The newer version app for my thermostat is not compatible with my tablet.

[Jim Becker]

This issue is specific to Apple devices, and Android phones typically do not face such forced obsolescence.
I do not believe this is accurate at all. It's counter to the "natural laws of tech" and compounded by the very real fact that the majority of Android devices do not run pure Android. (This is also an older thread)

[Dave Fritz]

It seems like Apple's support app requires iOS 16 or higher, and unfortunately, your iPhone 7 Plus has the latest available version, which is iOS 15.7.9. This issue is specific to Apple devices, and Android phones typically do not face such forced obsolescence.

Thank you Jason, exactly what I was asking.