Best was to cut - back of stiles

[Bob Cooper]

I need to cut away the inside of the rails and stiles so that I can put in a glass panel for a cabinet door. The rails are easy since the ends are not exposed but the rails need to be stopped rabbets.

I can think of two ways

1) slowly lower the stile on a table saw blade — sitting up about 1/4” — and move forward and back to cut most of it and then clean up with chisels

2) router table with a rabbet bit or just a straight bit and maybe cut it in 2-3 passes.

option 2 seems safer but maybe there are other ways or feedback on these two approaches.

hopefully it’s clear what I’m asking

[mike calabrese]

Not sure I completely understand BUT why not build the frame then add the rabbet on the back (inside) and chisel the corners square.
.YOu could even make the rabbet wider and install a filler strip screwed to the frame to hold the glass in and allow a replacement glass if it gets ever gets busted out.
calabrese55

[Cameron Wood]

Trying to think what I did the last time (mirror frame).

I think router table before parts were assembled.

Have also used router freehand with rabbeting bit on assembled frame, and have rabbeted the rails to fit the stiles.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I have done all of the above as well as set up stops on the shaper fence (or router table if you like) that get you as close as possible but still generally need corner clean up with chisels.

Depending on the details and quantity, sometimes it can be simpler and easier to just chuck a bearing guided rabbeting bit into a router and rout out the assembled frame in 2-3 passes and clean up with chisels. If I just had one to do this is probably what I’d do as long as I could achieve the right dimension rabbet with my rabbet bit + bearings.

I don’t like dropping down onto a table saw blade personally, but many seem to be comfortable with it.

[Bob Cooper]

I think my concern with doing this after the frames are assembled is if I use a router bit that it will catch when I hit those inside corners.

[Kevin Jenness]

The easiest way for any quantity is to run a through rabbet on all the pieces and cope the rails with a stubby half-lap joint. Add spline tenons, dowels or set up to do a proper integral tenon for strength. Stopped rabbets are time consuming. For a one-off or small #, assemble the frame, rabbet w/a piloted router bit and clean out the corners w/a chisel. In my opinion offset shoulders give a better, cleaner look.

[Richard Coers]

Option 2. I use a straight bit and a guide fence on the router. One cut and then square up the corners with a chisel. Used to have a stained glass shop bring me several every week

[Christopher Herzog]

My usual method is router with rabbit bit. Use a bearing to get correct distance. Square the corners with a chisel.

Chris

[Bob Cooper]

Richard and Chris….do this before assembly? if so do you stop before the corner so the bit doesn’t engage the rail and stile at the same time?

Also hard to see how you could take off this much material in one pass…it’s probably 1/4 to 3/8 deep

[Lee Schierer]

I need to cut away the inside of the rails and stiles so that I can put in a glass panel for a cabinet door. The rails are easy since the ends are not exposed but the rails need to be stopped rabbets.

I can think of two ways

1) slowly lower the stile on a table saw blade — sitting up about 1/4” — and move forward and back to cut most of it and then clean up with chisels

2) router table with a rabbet bit or just a straight bit and maybe cut it in 2-3 passes.

option 2 seems safer but maybe there are other ways or feedback on these two approaches.

hopefully it’s clear what I’m asking

Definitely don't do item No 1. It is a recipe to getting hurt. You should never attempt to lower a piece to be cut onto a moving blade, particularly a dado blade.

If you want to make the cut on a table saw. Set your blade height and fence using some scrap material. Then lower your saw blade counting the exact number of turns you lowered it. Set up a back stop for the starting point and a second stop for the end point. Arrange feather boards to hold the piece against the fence and down if possible. Now you are ready to make your cut.

Place your first stile on the table up against the fence and back stop. Hold the piece in place, turn on the saw and slowly raise the blade back up the exact same number of turns that you lowered it. Make the cut. Turn off the saw without moving the piece. Once the blade stops, remove the piece and set up for the next one by lowering the blade again.

I have a rabbeting bit for my router with various sized bearings that allow me to make various depths of cut in width and the route bit can be adjusted up and down for depth of cut. I've cut deeper rabbets in picture frames over the years using this bit. It leaves some curved areas in the corners that you have to go back and clean up with a chisel. If you are worried about tear out in the inside corners, use a forstner bit to remove a slightly oversize area in each corner. You will never see those circular areas from the front.

[Kevin Jenness]

Definitely don't drop on a stopped rabbet on the tablesaw. It's more risky in that orientation than using a router table and the large radius sawblade leaves more to clean up in the corners. If you must use a tablesaw Lee's procedure is good. In any case, have a stop block behind the work to prevent kickback. It's altogether simpler to run a rabbet on an assembled frame.

As for multiple passes, it depends on the rabbet size.

Pre-scoring with a sharp marking gauge will suppress tearout at the rabbet shoulder.

[Richard Coers]

Richard and Chris….do this before assembly? if so do you stop before the corner so the bit doesn’t engage the rail and stile at the same time?

Also hard to see how you could take off this much material in one pass…it’s probably 1/4 to 3/8 deep
I've only done it on assembled and finished doors. You don't have to mill off all the wood, you just need to put a kerf around the door so you can lift off the remaining piece of wood. I use a plunge router, 1/4" router bit and layout lines. The 1/4" bit reduces the amount of wood that requires a chisel to square it up. The router guide fence sets the distance from all 4 sides.

[Dan Chouinard]

I use Lee's method.

[Bob Cooper]

Thanks all. I think I’ll build a couple test frames fully assembled and then make multiple passes with a rabbet bit. My only concern with this method was when the bit got into the corner that it might grab. Sounds like that is not a big concern.

[Richard Coers]

Thanks all. I think I’ll build a couple test frames fully assembled and then make multiple passes with a rabbet bit. My only concern with this method was when the bit got into the corner that it might grab. Sounds like that is not a big concern.
Be aware that a rabbet bit is notorious for massive chip out. I've had them rip out a sliver about 6" long on red oak. You will absolutely have to score the stile to not blow it out past the rail. I used to be surprised that my decades of experience never came across as the way to do things, but now I know those 50+ years of experience are easily ignored on the internet. No idea why I still try to help, it's become a real waste of time.

[Lee Schierer]

Be aware that a rabbet bit is notorious for massive chip out. I've had them rip out a sliver about 6" long on red oak. You will absolutely have to score the stile to not blow it out past the rail. I used to be surprised that my decades of experience never came across as the way to do things, but now I know those 50+ years of experience are easily ignored on the internet. No idea why I still try to help, it's become a real waste of time.

You can do a very light climb cut all the way around and eliminate the tear out problem. Then reduce the bearing diamter one step at a time and make multiple passes. That will take less time than making a new piece.

[Warren Lake]

dadoe blades drop on and clean out chisel, safer way raise the blade up to height. Negative rake dadoe blades safer Ive used either works fine. If you are going to drop on and more so no stop block you better have some time on a saw.

[Cameron Wood]

I've done that on the table saw plenty, but it doesn't make the cleanest cut

[Warren Lake]

id drop on using dadoes but would use an adjustable groover if I had one. Do have smaller radius ones not sure they would extend to and above the saw table

raising up would be safer than dropping on. less chance of kicking, past dadoes had no chip limiting sure it started at one point in time. Rabbet may or may not show depending on stop block for the glass so may not have to be groover quality.

[Jared Sankovich]

You can do a very light climb cut all the way around and eliminate the tear out problem. Then reduce the bearing diamter one step at a time and make multiple passes. That will take less time than making a new piece.

I just climb cut the entire rabbet in 2 or so passes with a last conventional cut pass to clean anything up.

[Bob Cooper]

Be aware that a rabbet bit is notorious for massive chip out. I've had them rip out a sliver about 6" long on red oak. You will absolutely have to score the stile to not blow it out past the rail. I used to be surprised that my decades of experience never came across as the way to do things, but now I know those 50+ years of experience are easily ignored on the internet. No idea why I still try to help, it's become a real waste of time.

Richard…I really do appreciate your advice and actually will try a 1/4” straight bit. You mention that you use a plunge router and a fence on the router. Any reason I couldn’t just use a router table with the rt fence as the offset. The rails and stiles are all the same width.

[Kevin Jenness]

Be aware that gauging from the outside of the frame with a fence allows for overcutting, so you have to ensure that the work doesn't drift away from the fence. That can't happen with a piloted bit registered on the inside edge. There's no need to worry about "catching" the bit at the corners, you just cut into the corner and change direction. You can make several passes if need be, stepping the cut depth down in increments or using different bearing diameters.

A light climb cut at full depth will score the shoulder and suppress tearout but takes control developed from experience, or a bearing that allows for a narrow width cut to avoid kickback. The same effect can be had by scoring the parts with a marking gauge.

[Joe Calhoon]

Kevin offers some good advice here. In his first post he mentioned doing a square edge shiplap type joint. I have some pictures that were done on the shaper. It’s very simple, the fence is not moved and the only adjustment between cope and stile rebate is moving the cutter or dado up and down. if you don’t have a shaper it could be done on the table saw with a dado head. Router table possibly but no experience with those. The joint will need to be reinforced.
As Kevin mentioned if you don’t have the tools to do a shiplap type joint the router with a bearing rebate cutter is next best choice.
Dropping in with a table saw or routers with fences seems like a hard way to do a simple task.
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[Mike Stelts]

I just made frames for someone who was sure 1/4" was enough. We didn't assemble the frame, in case he was wrong. Being wrong, he cleaned out the dado to 5/16" without incident on a router table. It was his first time trying anything remotely similar.