Time for a New Table Saw Blade?

[Pat Germain]

I was into woodworking 12 years ago. In 2011 I bought a clapped out classic car and restored it. Yeah, it was a dream I had since I was kid. Had I waited any longer I would have been too old to do it.

So now that the car is done and I moved into a new house, I'm getting back into woodworking. I gave my old, hot-rodded Craftsman contractor saw to a young guy who was just getting woodworking and I bought a SawStop PCS. (Mrs. Pat felt better with the safety feature and encouraged me to spend more for that.)

After I got my SawStop assembled, I cleaned and installed my trusty Forest Woodworker II. I had not used it in 12 years and it doesn't seem to be cutting very well. I had it sharpened a few times years ago and thought I would do that again. Unfortunately, my sharpener is no longer open to the public. And I'm recalling the Forest blade takes some special knowledge to sharpen. Is that correct? My blade has been sharpened at least three times previously and I'm not sure how many times the Forest blade can be re-sharpened.

I don't know of any other local sharpeners. I've heard Ridge Carbide will sharpen any blade, but I'm not looking forward to mailing off my blade and waiting for it to come back.

Now I'm thinking it might be easier to just buy a new blade. I've read good things about the new Freud blades and, compared to Forest, they are very reasonably priced. Although those blades are coated on the sides, I gather I can still use it on a SawStop?

So I would appreciate some advice and suggestions here:

- Do you think the Woodworker II can be sharpened a fourth time?

- Should I try to find a new sharpener for my Forest Woodworker II?

- Should I send my Woodworker II to Ridge Carbide for a sharpening?

- Should I buy a new Freud blade or another combination blade?

Yeah, I'm pretty mixed up here while getting back into woodworking.

[Jim Becker]

While Forrest might make you think that they are the best place to sharpen it because of the C4 carbide, lots of competent sharpeners can do the job for you. I use Dynamic Saw in Buffalo NY and they have done an excellent job with my Forrest blades...which is all I use.

DYNAMIC SAW
(888)528-0808
www.DynamicSaw.com (http://www.dynamicsaw.com/)

[Michael Burnside]

Haven't tried Dynamic Saw, but I trust Jim's judgement. I'm sure they are a good place. That said, I only use Ridge Carbide blades and that's where I send my blades to be sharpened. I recommend having 2 of any critical blades you use. Just buy the backup sometime before you ship off the old one to be sharpened. For me, this is every few years, so accumulating backups isn't too difficult on the pocket book.

[Pat Germain]

Thanks for the input.

How long is the turnaround for Dynamic Saw and Ridge Carbide?

So maybe the answer is to buy a new blade AND send the old one out for sharpening.

[James Jayko]

I'm all for resharpening. hat said...

I went with the Freud Fusion and I have to say, its the best blade I've ever used. If I were you I might send our the WWII for sharpening, get the Freud and give it a try. Truly excellent results on my end.

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks for the input.

How long is the turnaround for Dynamic Saw and Ridge Carbide?

So maybe the answer is to buy a new blade AND send the old one out for sharpening.

About 10-14 days'ish. I recommend 2 of your most critical blades, accumulated over time.

I highly recommend this as your starting blade: https://ridgecarbidetool.com/collections/table-saw-blades/products/10-x-48t-25-atb-5-afb-20-hk-087-125-ts2000-ultra-combo-blade

I also have their crosscut, flat top and rip blades, all 0.125" and 5/8" arbor which is what you'll need for your SawStop.

[Pat Germain]

I'm all for resharpening. hat said...

I went with the Freud Fusion and I have to say, its the best blade I've ever used. If I were you I might send our the WWII for sharpening, get the Freud and give it a try. Truly excellent results on my end.

Thank you. Is there a specific Freud Fusion you'd recommend? I see multiple Fusion blades online. Since that is less than half the cost of another Woodworker II or a Ridge Carbide, I might give that a try for when the Woodworker II is out for sharpening. Since the Freud blades are coated, do you know if they will work with a SawStop?

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the input.

How long is the turnaround for Dynamic Saw and Ridge Carbide?

So maybe the answer is to buy a new blade AND send the old one out for sharpening.

Yes, and yes. I live near Dynamic Saw and can attest to them being a top notch shop for sharpening blades. Excellent German equipment and very competent operators and a hands-on owner. A true small business success story. They can replace chipped and broken teeth, too. I've been in their facility several times and have always been impressed. Their prices are super competitive.

John

[Michael Burnside]

Thank you. Is there a specific Freud Fusion you'd recommend? I see multiple Fusion blades online. Since that is less than half the cost of another Woodworker II or a Ridge Carbide, I might give that a try for when the Woodworker II is out for sharpening. Since the Freud blades are coated, do you know if they will work with a SawStop?

Buy once, cry once IMHO. You have a multi-thousand dollar saw, give it a good blade, don't skimp on the most important point of contact between the saw and your project. Not saying Freud isn't good, but Forrest and Ridge Carbide are much better IMHO. I have personally tested Ridge vs. Freud extensively years ago when I switched from Freud to Ridge.

And yes, Freud blades are ok. You can test it yourself by having the saw on (not spinning!) and touch the side of the blade or teeth and you'll see the sensor blinking. That said, I don't recommend using 3/32 blades (thin kerf) nor does SawStop if you read the manual. I know the Ridge Carbide thin kerf are stiffer but I stick to full kerf. If you have a 3HP saw you won't notice a difference (I've tested it). And the full kerf Ridge "super rip" can be sharpened something like 20 times!

[Pat Germain]

Buy once, cry once IMHO. You have a multi-thousand dollar saw, give it a good blade, don't skimp on the most important point of contact between the saw and your project. Not saying Freud isn't good, but Forrest and Ridge Carbide are much better IMHO. I have personally tested Ridge vs. Freud extensively years ago when I switched from Freud to Ridge.

And yes, Freud blades are ok. You can test it yourself by having the saw on (not spinning!) and touch the side of the blade or teeth and you'll see the sensor blinking. That said, I don't recommend using 3/32 blades (thin kerf) nor does SawStop if you read the manual. I know the Ridge Carbide thin kerf are stiffer but I stick to full kerf. If you have a 3HP saw you won't notice a difference (I've tested it). And the full kerf Ridge "super rip" can be sharpened something like 20 times!

Thanks again. I thought I read I can use a thin kerf blade as long as it's not thinner than the riving knife. I will go back and review the manual.

[Carl Beckett]

I'm all for resharpening. hat said...

I went with the Freud Fusion and I have to say, its the best blade I've ever used. If I were you I might send our the WWII for sharpening, get the Freud and give it a try. Truly excellent results on my end.

Mirrors my experience. I had a couple sharpened by Dynamic. But also purchased a Fusion. There was a glitch with it and Freud support was outstanding. Cuts very nicely (the best I have experienced?.... maybe so)

[Michael Burnside]

Thanks again. I thought I read I can use a thin kerf blade as long as it's not thinner than the riving knife. I will go back and review the manual.

3/32 is on the edge. Anything less and it isn't recommended due the safety mechanism. When I spoke with someone at SawStop they said just make sure it is a quality blade made of good steel as the main concern is warping when the safety brake engages. I've used my full-kerf Ridge for a couple years and it still rips like it is new. That said, I do have the 3HP model. With a 1.75HP model, I'd be tempted to use the 3/32 if it is from a good manufacturer.

And yes, you definitely should get a thin kerf riving knife if you go that direction.

[Pat Germain]

3/32 is on the edge. Anything less and it isn't recommended due the safety mechanism. When I spoke with someone at SawStop they said just make sure it is a quality blade made of good steel as the main concern is warping when the safety brake engages. I've used my full-kerf Ridge for a couple years and it still rips like it is new. That said, I do have the 3HP model. With a 1.75HP model, I'd be tempted to use the 3/32 if it is from a good manufacturer.

And yes, you definitely should get a thin kerf riving knife if you go that direction.

My Woodworker II is a thin kerf. I measured and it's a bit wider than the factory riving knife. But maybe not wide enough? My SawStop is also a 3HP.

[James Jayko]

It was just the combination blade from woodcraft, nothing special.

I also have the PCS and I’d agree…skip the thin kerf if you can. My thin kerf blade from my prior delta hybrid saw bound up quite a bit with the riving knife and that’s when I got the fusion.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the input.

How long is the turnaround for Dynamic Saw and Ridge Carbide?

So maybe the answer is to buy a new blade AND send the old one out for sharpening.

I've always had pretty fast turn around, Pat...maybe a week back and forth; a day or two to get there a day or two to be processed and a day or two for shipment back. Since you're in Colorado Springs, it might be an extra day or two for you to both Dynamic Saw and Ridge Carbide.

I also fully support having more than one primary blade. My primary blade is the WW-II, 48T 12" for my slider. I have two. Why? "Stuff happens" in addition to the occasional need for re-sharpening. Keeping the blades clean can help them work better, too. I happened to get a free bonus blade with my new slider and since it's similar in configuration to my WW-II, I put it on to use for awhile as I was doing new shop fitout and it remains in use at the moment. It's either an Italian or German blade...I forget right now. One other thing I do is keep my blade kerf exactly the same across all my blades. That consistency makes working with fixtures a lot easier. I agree with James...if you have a 3hp+ saw, there's no good advantage to a "thin kerf" blade other than the thinner kerf for a special cut. IMHO, of course, and some might disagree.

[Richard Coers]

I'm a huge fan of Forrest blades AND their sharpening service. Tried a big name sharpening service in Chicago once, sent their freshly sharpened work back to Forrest. Won't ever do that again.

[Pat Germain]

I've always had pretty fast turn around, Pat...maybe a week back and forth; a day or two to get there a day or two to be processed and a day or two for shipment back. Since you're in Colorado Springs, it might be an extra day or two for you to both Dynamic Saw and Ridge Carbide.

I also fully support having more than one primary blade. My primary blade is the WW-II, 48T 12" for my slider. I have two. Why? "Stuff happens" in addition to the occasional need for re-sharpening. Keeping the blades clean can help them work better, too. I happened to get a free bonus blade with my new slider and since it's similar in configuration to my WW-II, I put it on to use for awhile as I was doing new shop fitout and it remains in use at the moment. It's either an Italian or German blade...I forget right now. One other thing I do is keep my blade kerf exactly the same across all my blades. That consistency makes working with fixtures a lot easier. I agree with James...if you have a 3hp+ saw, there's no good advantage to a "thin kerf" blade other than the thinner kerf for a special cut. IMHO, of course, and some might disagree.

Thank you, Jim.

[Jacques Gagnon]

My Woodworker II is a thin kerf. I measured and it's a bit wider than the factory riving knife. But maybe not wide enough? My SawStop is also a 3HP.

Pat,

I do not want to be rude but please allow me to ask: what benefit do you expect to gain from using a thin kerf blade?

Your 3hp saw is more than capable of handling full kerf equipment.

Regards,

Jacques

PS: As it turns out Jim Becker posted a reply while I was working on mine. Sorry for the partial duplication.

[Pat Germain]

Pat,

I do not want to be rude but please allow me to ask: what benefit do you expect to gain from using a thin kerf blade?

Your 3hp saw is more than capable of handling full kerf equipment.

Regards,

Jacques

PS: As it turns out Jim Becker posted a reply while I was working on mine. Sorry for the partial duplication.

No problem, Jacques. I bought the thin kerf many years ago when I was using the Craftsman contractor saw. That saw didn't have a lot of power and I was hoping the thin kerf blade might be easier on it. With my 3 HP SawStop, you're right, there's no point in going with a thin kerf.

I just went through all my old saw blades. There's a Vermont American combo blade. I remember buying that because Vermont American used to sponsor New Yankee Workshop. Are they even in business anymore? :) I also found a Freud laminate/plywood blade and another blade I couldn't identify because all the printing is worn off. I think I bought those back in the 90s when I first got into wordworking. Unfortunately, they're all thin kerf blades.

I'm thinking I need to buy a new Woodworker II or maybe a Ridge Carbide saw blade. Either way, they will be not be thin kerf.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

[Lee Schierer]

I have a full kerf Freud Fusion F80 (item 810) 80 tooth blade that I use on my Craftsman saw and it works extremely well. Nice very smooth cuts. For ripping I use a full kerf Glue Line ripping blade. It also makes excellent cuts.

[Jim Becker]

Pat, I've become fond of Silvers Mill (https://www.sliversmill.com/) for sourcing Forrest blades if you choose to go that route. They have very good pricing, ship fast and have good customer service in my experience. I originally bought direct, but the last x number of Forrest blades I've purchased have been from them. Regardless of brand you choose, I wouldn't throw away the WW-II Forrest blade you have as it might be handy where you need a thinner kerf for some purpose, but with the 3hp PCS, the regular .125" kerf blades are a better choice for overall cutting, IMHO.

[Pat Germain]

Pat, I've become fond of Silvers Mill (https://www.sliversmill.com/) for sourcing Forrest blades if you choose to go that route. They have very good pricing, ship fast and have good customer service in my experience. I originally bought direct, but the last x number of Forrest blades I've purchased have been from them. Regardless of brand you choose, I wouldn't throw away the WW-II Forrest blade you have as it might be handy where you need a thinner kerf for some purpose, but with the 3hp PCS, the regular .125" kerf blades are a better choice for overall cutting, IMHO.

Would you recommend this 40 tooth blade?

https://www.sliversmill.com/product_15_10x40T_Woodworker_II__1_8_THICK_Kerf__1 5_OFF_Sharpening_off.html

[Jim Becker]

Yes, that's exactly the blade I used in 10" form when I had the cabinet saw pre-slider and honestly, continued to use for a number of years before I moved to the 12", 48t version. I had two of them so I could always have a spare and send one out for sharpening while running the other. There are other variations of the blade for special purposes, but that's one of the best general purpose blades you can buy, along with the Ridge Carbide and a few other high end blades. I had mine sharpened 4-5 times over their time with me and they still had quite a few sharpenings left available for the person I sold them to. That's one reason to buy a good blade, regardless of the brand...it may have a higher price tag up front, but over the life, it can be less expensive since sharpening is less costly than replacing. The more times you can sharpen without compromising the blade, the less expensive it is over time.

[Pat Germain]

Yes, that's exactly the blade I used in 10" form when I had the cabinet saw pre-slider and honestly, continued to use for a number of years before I moved to the 12", 48t version. I had two of them so I could always have a spare and send one out for sharpening while running the other. There are other variations of the blade for special purposes, but that's one of the best general purpose blades you can buy, along with the Ridge Carbide and a few other high end blades. I had mine sharpened 4-5 times over their time with me and they still had quite a few sharpenings left available for the person I sold them to. That's one reason to buy a good blade, regardless of the brand...it may have a higher price tag up front, but over the life, it can be less expensive since sharpening is less costly than replacing. The more times you can sharpen without compromising the blade, the less expensive it is over time.

Thank you again, Jim. I think I will pull the trigger on that Forrest blade.

[Frank Pratt]

I'm all for resharpening. hat said...

I went with the Freud Fusion and I have to say, its the best blade I've ever used. If I were you I might send our the WWII for sharpening, get the Freud and give it a try. Truly excellent results on my end.
I have a Premier Fusion combo blade and it is easily the best combo blade I've ever used. If I wrecked it, I'd buy another tomorrow.

[Dave Sabo]

Thank you again, Jim. I think I will pull the trigger on that Forrest blade.


I DO NOT advise you getting a 48t blade for your saw. Jim has a 12” saw - and that makes sense for that size as a combo blade.

40t is your sweet spot.

I have all the big name 40t combos and think the Ridge provides a better cut for me and my saws over the Forrest. I fully believe at this level 10 guys will have ten different opinions on what cuts best for them and all will be correct. It’s totally dependent on your seTup and what you cut.
https://ridgecarbidetool.com/collections/table-saw-blades/products/10-x-40t-ar-4-1-15-hk-094-125-ts2000-super-combo-blade

All of that said - when $$$ is factored in I have yet to find a better bargain than the Freud Fusion p410 combo. You mentioned earlier that you saw “different” ones. The differences are only size and thin kerf vs. reg.

https://www.freudtools.com/explore/saw-blades/general-purpose-combination/premier-fusion-general-purpose

At half the price of ridge and forrest it’s really difficult to beat for value.

[Jim Becker]

Dave, he linked to the 40T saw. I don't think there was any confusion about that.

[Pat Germain]

As a follow-up, I ordered a standard kirf Forrest Woodworker II from sliversmill.com. When I check out, I saw the blade was being shipped via USPS and I thought, "Oh no!". My local post office is notorious for losing packages and delivering packages to the wrong address. To my surprise, my new blade was in my mailbox only three days later. Wow, I'm a unicorn.

I haven't yet installed the new blade, but it appears I'm a dork because it's the same thickness as my other saw blades. So my previous Woodworker II was not actually a thin kerf. I'm not sure why I thought it was a thin kerf. I bought it and used it many years ago, then put it away for many more years while I was restoring a classic car. I'm having to re-learn a lot of things as I get back into woodworking. But I now have a brand new Woodworker II with a coupon for sharpening. I can now send out my old Woodworker II to Slivers Mill for sharpening without any down time.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

[Jim Becker]

Kewel discovery. So you can send out the original blade for sharpening and have a second to shift to when the one you've been using needs sharpening. Rinse and repeat. :) I've been happen with Silvers Mill and am glad you got your shipment quickly, too.

[Christopher Charles]

Pat, glad it worked out for you!

Dave or others, I'm considering the Ridge as it would be nice to have a combo blade that has a fairly flat bottom. I have a 8" box joint set, but often it is great to get close with the blade that's on the saw, esp. now that I have a SS and that requires a cartridge swap.

For the TS2000, I know the kerf is not completely flat, but is it noticeably flatter than a WWII?

Many thanks,
Chris

[Jim Becker]

Chris, the WW-II is available in a "flat bottom" grind, but the normal version does indeed leave some scoring at the edges of the kerf. It's a trade-off...the scoring by the high angles is what helps provide the really great cross cutting edge quality. Different blades from different manufacturers will often have less scoring. Anyone who frequently uses their "normal" blade on the saw to do grooving, especially wider ones or for splines where more of a flat bottom is desirable should take that into consideration. For wider cuts, they can certainly be cleaned up with a router plane or an electric router...which is fine for infrequent situations...but if you do that a lot, use a blade with a raker to clear things flat or a dado set that's designed for flat bottoms. (Forrest's Dado King also scores at the edge)

[Michael Burnside]

As Jim points out, if you really want a flat groove, then you need a blade for that intended purpose. I have the Ridge Carbide TS2000 Flat Top Box Joint blade. Some woodworkers really dig their heels in when changing a blade, which may be why the "comob" blade is so popular, but it takes less than 90 seconds. The aforementioned FT blade leaves a very smooth surface and I highly recommend using it (or another brand's equivalent) if a flat bottom is required.

This is what I have/use from Ridge Carbide

10" X 24 STR +20 .087 / .125" HEAVY DUTY TS2000 SUPER RIP SAW - all rips on any fine furniture builds (ply/hardwood)
10 X 80 ATB +5 HK .087 / .125" TS2000 - all cross cuts on fine furniture builds (ply/hardwood)
10" X 40T STR +15 HK .094 / .125" TS2000 FLAT TOP BOX JOINT BLADE - aforementioned blade for cutting flat-top grooves/dados/rebates
10" X 48T 25 ATB +20 HK .062 / .093" TS2000 ULTRA COMBO BLADE - when the project doesn't matter or specific material (shop projects, plexiglass, HDPE, MDF, outdoor projects, etc.)

[John Kananis]

I'm also a huge fan of ridge Carbide - the ts2000 lives mostly in my saw. Awesome, friendly and responsive company and their blades are at least as good as forrest, which I also own. I have much more ridge though, including the super dado and their track saw blade in my dewalt (unreal improvement).

I'll add that their service and sharpening are second to none. They rehabbed a blade for me that was badly water-damaged to like-new condition and even etched my name into it haha, nice touch.

[glenn bradley]

So maybe the answer is to buy a new blade AND send the old one out for sharpening.

Yep. I have two of many of my cutters for just this reason. Google yields a few sharpeners in your area. I would check the reviews and give one a try. Finding a local for such things is a real benefit IMHO. I have a 50 tooth 1/8" kerf "groover" for flat bottom work that needs a little better result than an FTG 24 tooth rip.

[Pat Germain]

Yep. I have two of many of my cutters for just this reason. Google yields a few sharpeners in your area. I would check the reviews and give one a try. Finding a local for such things is a real benefit IMHO. I have a 50 tooth 1/8" kerf "groover" for flat bottom work that needs a little better result than an FTG 24 tooth rip.

I'm not sure what you found on the Google search, but I searched I found places which sharpen only knives and Rick's Edge which is the shop no longer open to the public.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I'm not sure what you found on the Google search, but I searched I found places which sharpen only knives and Rick's Edge which is the shop no longer open to the public.West Slope in Grand Junction is an overnight UPS delivery away.