Pretty lucky guy...

[Brian Tymchak]

This video (https://youtu.be/86Z1Q3cf5iw?si=gmWD2ZxzCvQnYL7H) popped up in my news feed this afternoon. Guy made a mistake and came away with only a bruised thumb. He was recording at the time so you see the actual incident and then later goes thru a frame by frame accounting.

[Andrew More]

Yeah, having watched a number of videos he's usually a pretty careful guy, just made a mistake.

[Doug Garson]

Yeah, I've watched his videos for several years, this video shows how quickly things can go wrong when you make one simple mistake. Kudos to Jay for sharing his mistake to remind all of us to be careful.

[Mark Hennebury]

You have a thread on the forum today about unguarded Japanese woodworking machines, with an 89 year old women crosscutting round logs with an unguarded 20" sawblade on a table-saw, been doing it her whole life, still got all her fingers. the you have the modern youtube generation gurus with the saw-stop mindset, cant keep his mind straight to cut five piece's the same way. or concentrate to hold onto to them or feed them at a controlled rate suitable for the job. I think that there is a serious problem with people not being able to focus, maybe due to the new technology mucked up their brains, Doesn't bode well, better get saw-stop technology on everything quick.

[mike stenson]

I know plenty of people, with years of professional experience, missing fingers.. Parts of them, or with narrower ones.

[Brian Runau]

Wild. I have never listened to music or had a TV on in my shop. Still have done some not thinking things over the years. No major injuries thank God. Brian

[Mark Gibney]

Good video to watch, thanks for posting it here.

[Michael Burnside]

You have a thread on the forum today about unguarded Japanese woodworking machines, with an 89 year old women crosscutting round logs with an unguarded 20" sawblade on a table-saw, been doing it her whole life, still got all her fingers. the you have the modern youtube generation gurus with the saw-stop mindset, cant keep his mind straight to cut five piece's the same way. or concentrate to hold onto to them or feed them at a controlled rate suitable for the job. I think that there is a serious problem with people not being able to focus, maybe due to the new technology mucked up their brains, Doesn't bode well, better get saw-stop technology on everything quick.

This post had one gem wrapped up in insults and unnecessary diatribe about woodworking technology with some over obsessing about SawStop.

I’ll summarize so you can ignore the garbage: focus when you’re working in the shop

Or just watch the video as Jay makes a much better point and takes full responsibility of his actions.

[mike stenson]

Was this part really necessary?....:confused: (As it did nothing to advance your argument)

It was as necessary as his generational comment.

Which was nothing but crass, so he deserved it.

[Tom Levy]

I'm thinking no amount of focus could help that operation? I don't know of a way to safely push a thin round circle through a bandsaw on edge without a jig/carrier, looks pretty clear that it is never going to work.

Maybe the focus is pre-operation where you determine not to proceed.

[Tom Trees]

Who's got the better excuse if something bad happens, huh?
Someone day in, day out, doing the same operation...
Or someone doing something odd enough to omit making the operation a heck of a lot safer.

I'll keep me fingers thanks.
Kudo's for Jay to put his mistake up for others to learn, a humble act IMO.
It's quite likely we eventually will end up with a glossary of various accidents and incidents on every machine,
which will make things safer for those who regard the hand at the job, more important than the job at hand.

All the best folks
Tom

[Edward Weber]

I could make a list of what I would do differently to cut the same piece but that's not the point.
He clearly was not thinking about what he was doing, for whatever reason. I hope he learned his lesson.

[Tom Trees]

My point was in knowing not to do that, (*for the newcomers)
and doing the thinking before the machine in question being powered up.

The difference being, how can that cut be done safety, even if I were to take a tumble
vs how to mitigate the chance of accidents happening.

The former if done well, should do the thinking part...that is, when it comes to the day to day out stuff.
That's the only lesson to take home for me.

Tom

[Edward Weber]

I will add, that there are better, safer ways to teach bandsaw safety, that posting a video of your own bad judgement.

Many seem to want to pat him on the back for showing his mistakes, I disagree. You don't get extra points for being stupid.

(for the newcomers) I would much rather see someone explain how to make the cut safely. A little knowledge goes a long way towards safety in the shop.

He also openly says, that this isn't the first time this has happened to him, he may never learn.
Thumbs down

[Tom Trees]

But does that mean that this video would not be a great example to give in a link of why not to...
instead of making a longer video enrobed in chainmail or whatnot.
Everyone and their brother has seen folks thoroughly explaining this occurrence happening,
and regarding the tablesaw, have seen styrofoam kickback examples, but yet it's evident that accidents or incidents keeps happening on both type saws,
and that's regarding the seasoned pro's also.

Can't argue with you there Edward, no excuses should be made, and one should try their best in that regards.
If you can't do it safely, then something needs to be done about it.
You can only be truly thinking clearly when every other step is taken prior.
Seemingly, what's regarded as the difference between incident and accident.

What else is insightful from the slow motion video, is how one doesn't react in time,
and how he attempted protecting the punch in the face he received, and what seems would be the same irregardless of where the dangerzone was...
I don't think you could explain that anywhere near as well, as seeing it with your own eyes.

All the best
Tom

[Doug Garson]

(for the newcomers) I would much rather see someone explain how to make the cut safely.
Which he did.

[Tom Trees]

Which he did.

I missed that bit, if there was mention of an apparatus to hold the work, it wasn't for very long.

[Edward Weber]

Which he did.
No mention of push block
no mention of less aggressive blade
no mention of using a backer board with piece double-stick taped to it.
no mention of making a jig or fixture to hold these objects

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He obviously didn't learn from his previous mistakes, maybe this time he will.

[Doug Garson]

No mention of push block
no mention of less aggressive blade
no mention of using a backer board with piece double-stick taped to it.
no mention of making a jig or fixture to hold these objects

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He obviously didn't learn from his previous mistakes, maybe this time he will.

Agree he could have done a much better job of describing how to do it correctly, he did a pretty good job of explaining what he did wrong. Around the 2 min mark he explains it would be better to feed the other direction to counteract the rotation force but your suggestions were missed by him. If I were doing it I would take advantage of the hole in the handle and use a scrap 2 x 6 on edge with a dowel in the handle hole to prevent rotation.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I watched the video…this is cynical, but imo this is the type of thing that content creators live for - Something shocking to show and share that wasn’t as dangerous an outcome as it could have been.

I am not of the opinion that simply sharing and talking over slow motion footage of you doing something stupid and dangerous is helpful or admirable. I use my bandsaw all the time and I’m not sure that I would ever be trying to re-saw something circular freehand without some type of sliding jig / sled that has the circular piece totally captured from rotating. If I had been in in that situation of them ending up waaay to thick, I would have just remade them to the proper thickness instead of trying some sketchy resawing with a circular object.

Freehanding that cut, even with the handle facing forward as he was initially doing is still a stupid and risky move, in my opinion. So, his proposed better way wasn’t actually safe or helpful for those hundreds of thousands watching who don’t know any better.

It is probably too much to expect most to think critically about what is being served to them by big name content creators on YT, though.

[Tom Trees]

Is humanity the worse off for Jay's video, (we got to see when something bad happens, unlike some certain unscrupulous youtubers)
and ps, the best "money shot" example *to date*, of what not to do with round stock..

So are things worse off, the exact same, or better off for it?

Agreed though, many will still likely come away from this with the wrong impression, even after reading the comments,
should they even have bothered.

Though I've been waiting for some unbiased youtuber to have compiled accidents into some sort of collections,
along with demonstrating things safely.
I suppose it might still be the case of taking the horse to the water, but not being able to make them drink it.

pps, I do hope this kinda thing of wanting accidents doesn't end up being seen as some kind of positive thing, regarding safety though!.
Tom

[Edward Weber]

Think about this:
If he did not get a catch, he would have most likely gone about his normal method of work and no one (the newcomers) would be aware that this is not the safest way to go about this.
The accident is the only thing that made him stop and think about it, at least for a moment.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Sure, but it’s a matter of when, not if when doing a cut like what was shown in the video, in my opinion, so bound to go wrong at some point due to statistical probability of an unsafe operation.

I’m not saying it was wrong to share the video and experience. I just wish that YT folks would take the time and effort to really also put the properly safe alternative out there for those who simply don’t know if they are going to talk about safety at all. This video was closer than some but still missed the mark, in my opinion.

[Jim Becker]

Blacktail Studio did a video not all that long ago that focused on what can happen when body parts come in contact with a whirling blade, etc. I only saw excerpts but it was certainly eye-opening about "how fast" something can go wrong and cause catastrophic damage to hands, etc.

Jay isn't perfect, but I appreciate what he was trying to accomplish.

[Michael Burnside]

Jay isn't perfect, but I appreciate what he was trying to accomplish.

Best comment in this entire thread.

[andy bessette]

OP--thanks for posting.

[Frank Pratt]

I saw another video a few years ago in which they were trying to cut a cookie off a short piece of a log. Just as shocking as Jay's experience.

[Edward Weber]

I’m not saying it was wrong to share the video and experience. I just wish that YT folks would take the time and effort to really also put the properly safe alternative out there for those who simply don’t know if they are going to talk about safety at all. .

Therein lies the problem with many of them, the presenters are also in the camp of "simply don’t know".
Too many of the YT folks (and others) just don't know enough or have experience enough to understand what could happen. If you don't know, well that's fine but then you have no business showing others how to perform the same task.
Safety briefing? Understanding the capabilities and limitations of your tools? Basic understanding of physics? These are foreign concepts to some and the not knowing, can be quite dangerous, as we just saw.

This is the problem with YT and woodworking, not enough basic knowledge too much confidence.
(the illusion of explanatory depth) it's a problem.

I wouldn't have such an issue if this was the first time this happened but repeating the same thing is inexcusable.
This presenter acknowledged that this has happened to him before but not as severe, yet he still didn't change his methods and went about filming another video to share as normal.

Those who praise him do him no favors. He needs to be told by people that he'll listen to and understand what he did or he will eventually, seriously injure himself, no one want's that.

This is my professional opinion, feel free to scream and yell.

[Alan Rutherford]

IMO it's invaluable to see frame-by-frame what went wrong. I've had my bandsaw over 50 years and have made my share of mistakes but am grateful for the chance to learn from someone else's at no risk to my own fingers. I see what went wrong and I'm not really interested in how he should have done it - if I ever have a similar situation, I'll find a solution and be better prepared because of his experience. He could have done more about how to do it right but that's a tedious and slippery slope. Once you start giving instruction you have to be careful to get all the boring details because you don't know what the viewer already knows. And of course there's more than one right way to do it. Brian, thanks for posting this.

[Warren Lake]

dont have a problem with it, he will save someone from possibly coming out worse. Its all the ones that don't know they don't know, that leaves people thinking that is how you do it.

[Doug Garson]

I'd much rather have someone show their accident, explain why it happened even if they don't do a good job of explaining the correct way to do it, than have someone do something unsafe without an accident and let newcomers think they did nothing wrong.

[Michael Burnside]

Therein lies the problem with many of them, the presenters are also in the camp of "simply don’t know".
Too many of the YT folks (and others) just don't know enough or have experience enough to understand what could happen. If you don't know, well that's fine but then you have no business showing others how to perform the same task.
Safety briefing? Understanding the capabilities and limitations of your tools? Basic understanding of physics? These are foreign concepts to some and the not knowing, can be quite dangerous, as we just saw.

This is the problem with YT and woodworking, not enough basic knowledge too much confidence.
(the illusion of explanatory depth) it's a problem.

I wouldn't have such an issue if this was the first time this happened but repeating the same thing is inexcusable.
This presenter acknowledged that this has happened to him before but not as severe, yet he still didn't change his methods and went about filming another video to share as normal.

Those who praise him do him no favors. He needs to be told by people that he'll listen to and understand what he did or he will eventually, seriously injure himself, no one want's that.

This is my professional opinion, feel free to scream and yell.

Ah, well therein lies another problem. Jay believes pushing the handle first and then walking around the back side of the bandsaw to pull the cut through is "safe" but ask 10 other "experienced" people and you'll get 10 different answers. The woodworking and DIY'ing crowd is a difficult crowd to satisfy. It's filled with know-it-alls and people with extra self-confidence to do something DIY. Not saying that's always a bad thing, plenty of people here with years and years of experience, but sometimes it gets in the way of compromise. Not to mention super experienced people can make something dangerous for most, completely safe. Where do you draw THAT line?

Personally, I'd be using a block of wood with double-sided tape and possibly a dowel in the handle to eliminate rotation, but that's me. I guarantee someone here probably thinks I'm a moron for mentioning "double-sided" tape...can't please everyone I guess.

As for newcomers, if they walk away with one thing, and one thing alone, pushing something round through a bandsaw is asking for a bad day, period.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

Therein lies the problem with many of them, the presenters are also in the camp of "simply don’t know".
Too many of the YT folks (and others) just don't know enough or have experience enough to understand what could happen. If you don't know, well that's fine but then you have no business showing others how to perform the same task.
Safety briefing? Understanding the capabilities and limitations of your tools? Basic understanding of physics? These are foreign concepts to some and the not knowing, can be quite dangerous, as we just saw.

This is the problem with YT and woodworking, not enough basic knowledge too much confidence.
(the illusion of explanatory depth) it's a problem.

I wouldn't have such an issue if this was the first time this happened but repeating the same thing is inexcusable.
This presenter acknowledged that this has happened to him before but not as severe, yet he still didn't change his methods and went about filming another video to share as normal.

Those who praise him do him no favors. He needs to be told by people that he'll listen to and understand what he did or he will eventually, seriously injure himself, no one want's that.

This is my professional opinion, feel free to scream and yell.

I think the purpose of the video was to emphasize "pay attention", don't get distracted! Didn't he discuss that he had been running the boards differently, with a somewhat safer method? He then allowed his mind to momentarily wander from the task at hand and as a result flirted with disaster. Isn't that an important lesson?

[Thomas McCurnin]

I've also though the band saw was the safest power tool in the shop, and that it is pretty darn hard to hurt yourself on a band saw. After watching that video, I still believe that, but then again, cutting round objects that rotate brings a whole new level of concern.

Like others, I was pleased that the guy posted the video, if only to show what not to do. I only learn by mistakes--I rarely learn by doing something right, so this video was helpful.

Like others, I was not pleased that the guy did not post a proper way of cutting that round cutting board. I think I would have made a carrier out of plywood and dowels and some double stick tape to capture the round cutting board and to firmly hold it against the table and fence. I don't think his idea of reversing the cutting board would provide enough bearing against the table, but that's just me. $5 worth of plywood and tape would have made me feel safer, especially when he had a bunch of these things to re-saw.

[Mel Fulks]

Yes , it’s a pretty safe machine , but is too often allowed to be used by beginners without thorough indoctrination. But if you’re gonna
‘lose some weight…..it’s really quick !

[Edward Weber]

I think the purpose of the video was to emphasize "pay attention", don't get distracted! Didn't he discuss that he had been running the boards differently, with a somewhat safer method? He then allowed his mind to momentarily wander from the task at hand and as a result flirted with disaster. Isn't that an important lesson?

He didn't get injuried because his mind wandered.
He got injured because he wasn't using a safe method of work.
You can pay attention with laser focus but if what you're doing is inherently unsafe (as his method was, with zero safety precautions) it won't matter.

Simply paying attention is not enough, you need some basic understanding of why the method you're using is not safe before you start the cut, not after. That should be the lesson

As to people showing their accidents, fine but it needs to be explained thoroughly, properly and completely, otherwise there is no point.
This guy is a perfect example.
He seems to suggest he could simply turn his piece around and put the handle first through the blade, adding the needed support for the cut.
This doesn't even come close to a full explanation of the issue.

[Joe Calhoon]

This is a simple jig I use for cutting anything round on the bandsaw.
508866

[Carl Beckett]

I dont sleep on the bandsaw. Personally know three people that have had serious injury. Just pushed their hand right through the blade (maybe slipped, but still...).

One was cutting up chickens at the fast food place. In those days they were timed and had a number to hit within a certain time. He said that policy was removed later but he has a funky finger just the same.

Round stuff has grabbed me before. I use a vice turned upside down whenever I can (limit on what size that works for)

[lou Brava]

In a management position I had to be certified in OSHA 30 & OSHA 10 & had to complete 60 minutes of safety training videos/quizzes weekly to keep my job & keep workers safe. IMO posting that video was a good thing and some good points made on "focus" & distraction. Could it have been better of course He should have started with a plan on that odd cut he was attempting and He would have ended up with some type of jig and much better approach. But I think viewing that violent accident is fantastic attention getter and will make a lot rookies & pros think twice next time they start up a saw. I do wish He came up with better plan than just turn the piece around. But over all a very good "lesson learned" video.

[Ronald Blue]

The big take away to me is that it clearly demonstrates that when an operation goes "wrong" it commonly happens so quickly that you can't possibly react fast enough to avoid a body part being bruised or worse. I've said repeatedly for a long time that ANY tool designed to cut or shape wood will easily cut flesh and bone as well. Not everyone who uses power tools necessarily have the common sense to realize what they are doing is risky.

[Kevin Jenness]

I usually use v blocks. For a repetitive cut as in the video it would be worth making a cradle sized to fit the piece. The higher up on the curve the cradle supports the piece the safer. Any time there is no support directly under the cut there is a hazard. It's easy to ignore kickback on the bandsaw because square stock is safe, but you can get into trouble fast and the risk when the guard is raised up high is considerable. My bandsaw is the only machine in the shop that could actually cut off my head.

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[Chris Parks]

Make a sled and use it to clamp to if needed and round objects do need to be clamped when cutting on a BS. Why most BS users don't make a sled when they have one on a TS is one of life's mysteries.

[Edward Weber]

Make a sled and use it to clamp to if needed and round objects do need to be clamped when cutting on a BS. Why most BS users don't make a sled when they have one on a TS is one of life's mysteries.

It's not a mystery.
Most times it's because their BS won't track straight so they can't use a sled.

[Chris Parks]

It's not a mystery.
Most times it's because their BS won't track straight so they can't use a sled.

That is a problem, as simple as band saws are they confound a lot of people and a lot of old knowledge is simply not true. A few videos on using bandsaws, they are in Italian but the pictures tell the story. There is a lot of talk in the early part of the first video but I could listen to his voice for hours without understanding a single word.

A sled at about 6 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZQk9gpOEUA&list=PLEb0Ut6A7deZhW9Sbf0EGMmT axGrJpTyJ&index=63

[Edward Weber]

Thanks for the link, lots of great jigs and fixtures.
I've always used a sled on my BS, don't know what I'd do if I couldn't. It would make lots of cuts more difficult, that's for sure.