I bought this but once it arrives it now scares me

[Keith Christopher]

508621508622

It's as tall as a 12oz soda can....Flush trim bit

[Grant Wilkinson]

That is one scary looking bit! :) What are you planning to trim with it?

[Kevin Jenness]

What are the actual dimensions?

[Keith Christopher]

1/2 " shank, 5.25" over length

3.5" bearing to bearing, 1.25 diameter.

[Myles Moran]

I once bought a double bearing flush trim bit that was bigger that I expected. It scares me every time I run it, and it's only about half the size of that bit. I have to be careful to look at a ruler or tape measure when I buy bits online.

That bit looks like an absolute monster.

[Kevin Jenness]

I wouldn't be concerned about breakage, with a cutting length/diameter ratio of less than 3. That is a tall cutter though, on a small shank, with a potential for removing a lot of material and for kickback. I would be cautious with a bit of that size in a handheld router. Cut close to the line so you are trimming a minimal amount. If you are often working with stock that thick you might want to use a shaper, if not a shorter bit would do. For comparison, I have a 3" diameter by 3" tall flush trim insert cutter running on a 1 1/4" shaper spindle.

[Bruce Page]

Can you provide a manufactures link to the bit?

[Michael Burnside]

The YouTube channel "Make Something" also had a vid on this bit and I believe it scared him too :D

https://bit.ly/4657S8Y

[Jim Becker]

This format is indeed scary looking but there's a reason it's so massive...the length is required so that you can effectively use it for both top bearing and bottom bearing template routing on thicker material. An example might be a guitar body or a thick cutting board. I'm seriously considering getting one, even though I do a lot of my cutting on the CNC. There are just a bunch of tasks where having a stout and massive flush trim solution for the router table will be handy.

[Keith Christopher]

https://spetools.com/collections/ranger-series-insert-flush-router-bits



(https://spetools.com/collections/ranger-series-insert-flush-router-bits)

[Mike King]

There's a tool for that: a shaper. I wouldn't trust such a bit in a router whether it was hand held or table mounted.

[Richard Coers]

I wouldn't be concerned about breakage, with a cutting length/diameter ratio of less than 3. That is a tall cutter though, on a small shank, with a potential for removing a lot of material and for kickback. I would be cautious with a bit of that size in a handheld router. Cut close to the line so you are trimming a minimal amount. If you are often working with stock that thick you might want to use a shaper, if not a shorter bit would do. For comparison, I have a 3" diameter by 3" tall flush trim insert cutter running on a 1 1/4" shaper spindle.
Why not worry about breakage? Lots of images on Google.
508626

[Warren Lake]

snapped bits before non of them went anywhere just stayed in the wood or fell on the floor. Being in a shop when shaper guy throws knives thats not ideal.

[Tom Levy]

whiteside ultimate flush trim is also 1/2 shank, but only 7/8 diameter and 1 1/8 CL, that seems more reasonable for a router

woodpeckers put out a competitor spiral double bearing that is 2" CL, but trimming 2" of material seemed too large for routing to me and I skipped ordering one

[Bert McMahan]

That is one scary looking bit! :) What are you planning to trim with it?

Fingers, if it were me :)

[Michael Burnside]

whiteside ultimate flush trim is also 1/2 shank, but only 7/8 diameter and 1 1/8 CL, that seems more reasonable for a router

woodpeckers put out a competitor spiral double bearing that is 2" CL, but trimming 2" of material seemed too large for routing to me and I skipped ordering one

I have the Whiteside bit as well as the 1-1/2 top-bearing version. They're all I need, but like Jim said, there could be need for something a bit longer.

[Keith Christopher]

I'm flush trimming some 2" stock. but TBH, this thing really is a beast. I've got a beefy router in the table (this is CLEARLY not for hand held) but I might just send it back it's so massive. I could to a couple passed with a shorter one. But we'll see. I like the whiteside one but haven't pulled the trigger. I did like the replaceable carbides which is why I bought it.

[Aaron Inami]

I just saw this thread/link and now I want one! Since it's a helical head flush-trim bit, it will do much better on figured hard-woods (which we all know have a tendency for chip-out using straight knives).

That being said, I don't think this really scary looking bit is any more dangerous than some of the other large router bits on the market:
https://bitsbits.com/product/2505/
https://bitsbits.com/product/2012/
https://bitsbits.com/product/whiteside-3373-tongue-groove-router-bit/
https://bitsbits.com/product/6002-ogee/

It still needs to be handled with much care. I think it has less risk of kick-back than a straight knife flush trim bit, since you only have a small edge cutting at a time.

I watched the referenced video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21hkHI2hsU

Like I said, this bit would really be good for figured hard-woods, but I can see cut lines in the video from where the individual carbide bits are mounted maybe a thousands of an inch off. You would still need to sand the edge to get rid of those cut lines.

[Phillip Mitchell]

That seems like a lot of bit for a 1/2” shank and router. I have a 4” tall x 4” diameter x 1 1/4” bore helical carbide head + matching OD bearing for my shaper that handle flush trimming extremely well. What router are you running with this bit?

Here are a few photos. This is an older setup/photo and I now have a hood with adjustable height front guards that cover more of the cutterhead, fwiw…or, of course run it with the bearing on top and most of the cutterhead buried below the table if the template design allows.

[Kevin Jenness]

Why not worry about breakage? Lots of images on Google.
508626
Well, anything can happen on Google. I follow a rule of thumb not to run router bits with a length more than 4x the diameter, but that is subject to common sense.

[Jerry Thompson]

I have on similar to that. I have used it to round corners. I take off all the wood just shy of the line. I does a great job. I, too, had a big pucker factor the first time I used it. I have only, so fa, used it on a router table.

[Alex Zeller]

I occasionally make patterns on my CNC router and needed a bit like that to use them. I ended up getting an inexpensive shaper and using a 4" diameter insert bit from Grizzly. I paired it with a rub bearing. I just didn't like the 1/2" shank on the router versions.

[andrew whicker]

For me, router bits run too fast on routers. Have you see how fast a CNC router moves (feed rate) at the same RPMs as your router with the same bits you use on your router table? I have the big Whiteside double sided router bit (pretty sure that's the brand) that I'd be willing to part with it since my shaper is up and running. I think router tables are more dangerous compared to my MAN rated shaper tools I've used so far.

I'm guessing it has something to do with maximizing HP and torque / size of router / size of bit, but router bits spin way too fast IMO. Whenever I read about people using metal knee mills or shapers with router bits they all say how nicely the router bit cuts (much lower RPM). Of course, those are potentially much higher HP machines. But given how fast CNC's feed stock vs how fast a human feeds stock safely, reducing the RPM seems appropriate. But, again, I must be missing something because super high RPM's on a router have been the solution for a very very long time. I'm just not into it after experiencing shapers.

[Michael Burnside]

You’re not wrong Andrew but there is a reason table routers have a speed adjustment. I always adjust my router based on the size of the bit being used.

Also, most people run their CNCs at too high of an RPM and low chip loads. But don’t get me started on the hordes of clueless YouTubers trying to explain feeds and speeds.

[Wes Grass]

Well, anything can happen on Google. I follow a rule of thumb not to run router bits with a length more than 4x the diameter, but that is subject to common sense.

Ummm ... yeah ...

Looks like way too much of that hanging out of the collet. In a milling machine you could probably get all the up to the flutes. A 'router', not so much.

As for the insert tool, maybe a bit much for my 1617, unless all I needed was the bottom bearing and a reasonable thickness of stock.

[Wes Grass]

I'm guessing it has something to do with maximizing HP and torque / size of router / size of bit, but router bits spin way too fast IMO. Whenever I read about people using metal knee mills or shapers with router bits they all say how nicely the router bit cuts (much lower RPM). Of course, those are potentially much higher HP machines.

It's the rigidity, not the HP.

And, I *think* the RPM of the router does 2 things. It's 'free' HP *, and the high RPM probably helps to prevent snagging and kickback.

* Universal motors vs synchronous.

[Mike Cutler]

It looks like a nice bit. Yeah, it's a bit larger than normal, but set to the lowest speed on the router, with some precautions taken, it shouldn't be an issue. It's not made to "hog" wood, it's made to use on a piece of material, bandsaw close to the line, and finish with that bit.
I would worry more about a larger diameter cabinet set in a router, than that bit. The centrifugal force is a lot lower on that bit, than some of the panel raiser sets I've seen for routers.
The bigger issue, in my mind, is the size of the router used. That's going to take a little beef.

[Mike Cutler]

For me, router bits run too fast on routers. Have you see how fast a CNC router moves (feed rate) at the same RPMs as your router with the same bits you use on your router table? I have the big Whiteside double sided router bit (pretty sure that's the brand) that I'd be willing to part with it since my shaper is up and running. I think router tables are more dangerous compared to my MAN rated shaper tools I've used so far.

I'm guessing it has something to do with maximizing HP and torque / size of router / size of bit, but router bits spin way too fast IMO. Whenever I read about people using metal knee mills or shapers with router bits they all say how nicely the router bit cuts (much lower RPM). Of course, those are potentially much higher HP machines. But given how fast CNC's feed stock vs how fast a human feeds stock safely, reducing the RPM seems appropriate. But, again, I must be missing something because super high RPM's on a router have been the solution for a very very long time. I'm just not into it after experiencing shapers.


Andrew
I have to agree with you. I would much rather use my shaper with a router bit, than a router in a table.
I've run some really small router bits at 10,000 rpm, and they work just fine.
I have a 240vac, 3HP shaper, and a "green" router advertised at 3HP with a 15amp, 120vac plug. Sorry, there are no 3HP motors running on 120vac, 15 amp, 16AWG cords, continuously.;)

[andrew whicker]

It's the rigidity, not the HP.

And, I *think* the RPM of the router does 2 things. It's 'free' HP *, and the high RPM probably helps to prevent snagging and kickback.

* Universal motors vs synchronous.

Yeah, I think it has more to do with eeking out every possible unit of power from 110 V and < 15 amps of current (with ~65% efficient single phase motors via quick Google search). I don't remember seeing any high amperage 110v, 220v single phase, or 3 phase routers.. so it seems to me once you have the capacity for power, you're able to lower the RPM's.

[Bill Dufour]

I would add a top bearing mount arm to the router table. Like an outboard arbor overarm on a metal horizontal milling machine. Heck a used horizontal mill would work fine to run that bit.
Bill D