Planning built-in for craftsman home

[Nick Crivello]

I have co-worker who has asked if I could make a built-in cabinet for her Alameda craftsman/bungalow home. Her living room has two existing built in cabinets with a tv table situated in between. She would like to replace it with a built in. She had another craftsman lined up but they bailed on the project before starting. I've attached a few pictures and a drawing the other guy provided.

I'm reluctant due to the difficulty in matching the look of the existing cabinets but she has expressed a willingness to be flexible on the look and construction. I'm looking to get a help on how to approach the project.

The existing cabinets appear to be pine, so that would be selected for the new cabinet. I was thinking solid wood top and face frame, ply carcass, shaker style drawers and doors. A few areas I'm fuzzy on:

1. Top would run lengthwise with edge grain to the wall to allow for wood movement. I'd try scribing the top to the existing cabinets with a track saw on site as they probably aren't square to each other. Z-clips for attachment to the carcass?

2. I've never had luck with matching stains, I suggested to the client that intentionally selecting a different stain/color may be considered? There is a local dealer with the full general stains lineup with samples on pine that she could look at.

3. Face frame; I thought about having the sides overlap the existing cabinets so as to conceal any gaps. Would that be the best approach?

[Bill Dufour]

Are you sure it is pine and not redwood? Iodine makes a good touchup stain for nicks in old yellowed pine.
Bill D

[Nick Crivello]

I haven’t seen them in person yet, just the photos. I wasn’t aware/considered that redwood would be used in this application.. interesting.

[roger wiegand]

Boy, that's going to be tough to get it to look right, like A&C without being a mash-up. I'd be looking for a serious A&C designer or architect to help the client come up with something harmonious without spoiling the look of the old cabinets and windows. I'd almost certainly not make the center unit the same height as the side ones-- taller and more protruding would look more A&C, but I don't see how to do that without mucking up the windows. Perhaps something with a back piece that goes close to or all the way to the ceiling, and a center cabinet unit that is a little shorter than the side cabinets but sticks out a couple inches further. I'd then hang A&C sconces (copper/mica or leaded glass) on the back plane, probably over a shelf. Could also be a great place to display some good A&C tile set into the wood.

Be careful of conflating Shaker and Craftsman, they are quite different in proportions and use of decorative elements. Here's an example of a craftsman door cabinet in our house that isn't at all Shaker in appearance-- Bay area Mission often uses heavier frame members. Again. I'd carefully match the existing proportions.

As to color, this would be the time to hire a professional finisher to do that part. Not an easy project to learn on.

508387

[Thomas McCurnin]

My guess is that it is pine, but sugar pine. I'd pull the old cabinets out and use them elsewhere in the home and make a new unit. I'd spend the better part of a day or two with analine dyes and your favorite topcoat (poly, varnish etc) and try to match the color of the window frames. I think you will be surprised how close you can get. If using a water based poly, you can also add the dye to the top coat, but it is less forgiving. I often use the dyed topcoat as a last minute fix or tweek to the color, like an orange or yellow.

[Brian Runau]

Identify the wood, spend as much time as it takes to match stain, before you cut anything.

[Bill Dufour]

My grandparents house in Berkeley built around 1912 had redwood built in display cabinets between the kitchen and dining room. Sugar pine is also likely.
The sanding dust will smell very different.
Bill D

[Kent A Bathurst]

Remove the top from both units.

Install matching hinges on the existing cabinets' stiles - no need to have a gap between units, just build on the existing units

Buy a test piece of the wood you plan to use, and take it along with a cabinet door, or a piece of the top, to a pro refinisher - have them come up with a match.

Now - you can make the needed parts from new wood, or by using wood from the tops. and frame in the center unit

[Nick Crivello]

To clarify, the client indicated that she wants the new built in to be about 3/4 of the height of the existing cabinets; probably 8-10" higher than the table pictured. I think she intends to keep the TV on top. I'm not keen on removing the existing cabinets, don't think she'd go for that either.

I know we have a few Bay Area folks here; any suggestions on a refinisher in the east bay area? I could remove one of the existing cabinet doors to use as a reference piece.

[Nick Crivello]

Remove the top from both units.

Install matching hinges on the existing cabinets' stiles - no need to have a gap between units, just build on the existing units

Buy a test piece of the wood you plan to use, and take it along with a cabinet door, or a piece of the top, to a pro refinisher - have them come up with a match.

Now - you can make the needed parts from new wood, or by using wood from the tops. and frame in the center unit

Building on the existing units is an interesting suggestion; I'd anticipated building off site then installing.

I'm not quite following on your thought to remove the tops from each unit though?

[Kent A Bathurst]

To clarify, the client indicated that she wants the new built in to be about 3/4 of the height of the existing cabinets; probably 8-10" higher than the table pictured.


That's a horse of a different color. As far as I can tell, that is not represented in the sketch/drawing in your OP. Those drawings show a continuous top over all three units. Ignore my previous input.

I don't understand how this design feature matches up with the original design. That's a big change in my book. No disrespect, but maybe this is a clue how the original vendor walked away? Change of scope after design and bid submittal? maybe this is one of those times where, as they say, "the juice isn't worth the squeeze". Especially with a co-worker. Anything less than a dead-nuts bullseye could be a future friction point.

Good luck, Nick. Let us know how it turns out.

[Nick Crivello]

That's a horse of a different color. As far as I can tell, that is not represented in the sketch/drawing in your OP. Those drawings show a continuous top over all three units. Ignore my previous input.

I don't understand how this design feature matches up with the original design. That's a big change in my book. No disrespect, but maybe this is a clue how the original vendor walked away? Change of scope after design and bid submittal? maybe this is one of those times where, as they say, "the juice isn't worth the squeeze". Especially with a co-worker. Anything less than a dead-nuts bullseye could be a future friction point.

Good luck, Nick. Let us know how it turns out.

The client requested a bid/design for a built-in BETWEEN the existing units. The drawing is what was provided. As far as I know she didn't change the scope of the project, I can't speak for the other vendor.

To reiterate because I'm sensing some confusion; the tv table is being replaced with a built in that complements the existing cabinets. The existing cabinets are not being removed. The new built in will have drawers with cabinet doors below. She wants it to be approximately 3/4 of the height of the existing cabinets.

[Kent A Bathurst]

The client requested a bid/design for a built-in BETWEEN the existing units. The drawing is what was provided. As far as I know she didn't change the scope of the project, I can't speak for the other vendor.

To reiterate because I'm sensing some confusion; the tv table is being replaced with a built in that complements the existing cabinets. The existing cabinets are not being removed. The new built in will have drawers with cabinet doors below. She wants it to be approximately 3/4 of the height of the existing cabinets.

All good - you're right - I was confused - I was focused on the info provided in your OP. Struck out on the late-breaking curve ball.

In this specific case, what's the design difference between a "built-in" and a free-standing cabinet that slides in place? I'm of no help - not a project I would want to take on. Sorry.

Best of luck

[andrew whicker]

I like this book on wood coloring. I'm sure you could reach out to the author and ask him questions. I've done that before with pretty good success. Link (https://www.amazon.com/Art-Coloring-Wood-Woodworkers-Understanding/dp/1610353056/ref=asc_df_1610353056/).

A trick that I learned was to chamfer the parts you are scribing, that way you are only scribing a thin piece of wood vs the entire thickness. Helps a lot. And this project requires a decent amount of scribing, but it also appears that you'll have some sort of trim / face frame hiding the chamfer of the scribed parts (FF to floor, FF to cabs, table top to cabs).

You may have already done this, but matching the crown and other moldings is something to consider as well (along with existing hardware).

[Nick Crivello]

I like this book on wood coloring. I'm sure you could reach out to the author and ask him questions. I've done that before with pretty good success. Link (https://www.amazon.com/Art-Coloring-Wood-Woodworkers-Understanding/dp/1610353056/ref=asc_df_1610353056/).

A trick that I learned was to chamfer the parts you are scribing, that way you are only scribing a thin piece of wood vs the entire thickness. Helps a lot. And this project requires a decent amount of scribing, but it also appears that you'll have some sort of trim / face frame hiding the chamfer of the scribed parts (FF to floor, FF to cabs, table top to cabs).

You may have already done this, but matching the crown and other moldings is something to consider as well (along with existing hardware).

I haven't done this before... :o

chamfering is something I've seen/heard of, will definitely be useful here.

Remembered that there is a shop in town who can help: shellac.net

[Thomas McCurnin]

I'm not sure how one would scribe the stiles of center cabinet, so that it would fit gapless, let alone the top. That would be really fussy work.

Before I would rip out those cabinets for "refinishing" I would get some Sugar Pine and have some fun with aniline dyes and poly. Keep detailed notes in terms of drops of dye per 8 ounces of water. It might take 50 samples, but that would be fun trying to match the color and the patina. I'm quite confident that you can do this.