Slider question

[Todd Zucker]

I am looking at a Hammer B3 saw/shaper. IÂ’ve avoided getting a table saw and have worked with a track saw, band saw and hand tools for years, which has worked well. I have a fully equipped Jessem router table and a bench top mortiser. But I recently bought a nice used cabinet saw and am now having second thoughts about whether a slider might be a better fit for comfort and safety and space constraints.

The setup is a four car garage with two cars parked inside at night. I.e., space constrained at night, but during the day, I can spread everything out with plenty of room.

I mostly work with solid wood and build normal sized furniture. Any sheet goods will be rough ripped at the lumber shop or broken down with the track saw. I donÂ’t use the router table much but think I might want to move into cabinets and raised panel doors for one off projects. Maybe the table saw is better than a hand plane and hand saw for that?

I have a Hammer A3-31 and like the quality. I am thinking that the B3 with mobility kit might be more compact than the cabinet saw, and the shaper might replace the router table.

any thoughts?

[Aaron Inami]

What model B3 are you looking at? They have a range of models. The B3-Basic is the smallest and has a very short slider and limits your sliding cut to around 24-28" in length. Once you add in some Fritz-n-Franz jigs, your cutting length is reduced down lower (maybe 15-18"). This is still likely going to be safer than a normal cabinet saw if you use the slider properly. That being said, the real benefit of a slider is the ability to rip long cuts that are perfectly straight and square. This is difficult on a normal cabinet saw and you will also need some sort of out-feed table.

If you are critical on precision, you may want to do a slider alignment. In this case, you don't want the mobility kit on the saw because your shop floor is likely going to be uneven and slanted. The slant/uneven floor can cause the B3 cast iron top to have a twist. This will translate into a twisted slider operation. It's very difficult to move the saw back to the exact position on the floor where you did the alignment. Also, once you put leveling feet on the saw, the mobility kit becomes useless anyways. I would recommend that you choose a permanent location for a slider and then have all other machines moving around on mobile bases. Review this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s2a02XI3BQ

Felder definitely sells a router collet spindle for the B3 shaper:

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/shaper-spindles-sc91620/router-spindle-with-collet-chuck-sp1640032
(https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/shaper-spindles-sc91620/router-spindle-with-collet-chuck-sp1640032)
But, you are going to be limited to 10,000 RPM. The Jessem router table will still work better and more efficient for smaller bits where you can run them at higher RPM. You can still choose to run router bits at 10,000 RPM on the shaper and cut slower.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I am looking at a Hammer B3 saw/shaper. IÂ’ve avoided getting a table saw and have worked with a track saw, band saw and hand tools for years, which has worked well. I have a fully equipped Jessem router table and a bench top mortiser. But I recently bought a nice used cabinet saw and am now having second thoughts about whether a slider might be a better fit for comfort and safety and space constraints.

The setup is a four car garage with two cars parked inside at night. I.e., space constrained at night, but during the day, I can spread everything out with plenty of room.

I mostly work with solid wood and build normal sized furniture. Any sheet goods will be rough ripped at the lumber shop or broken down with the track saw. I donÂ’t use the router table much but think I might want to move into cabinets and raised panel doors for one off projects. Maybe the table saw is better than a hand plane and hand saw for that?

I have a Hammer A3-31 and like the quality. I am thinking that the B3 with mobility kit might be more compact than the cabinet saw, and the shaper might replace the router table.

any thoughts?When you say, "better", what does that infer?
Do you do woodworking as a way to unwind or do you do it as a way to put bread on the table?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Todd

I have a K3 with a 1250 (49") slider, and it meets my needs very well. I really do not hanker after a longer slider. I like that its compactness in the limited space I have (half a double garage). I build one-off pieces of furniture, only work with solid wood and do not need to cut down sheets (I could use a track saw if so needed). The 1250 (actually cuts 1350) is home to a parallel guide for ripping, and the cross-cut fence is not only accurate, but will manage pretty wide panels.

https://i.postimg.cc/7Y5JWFpT/Workshop1.jpg

Parallel Guide and the "short" slider ...

https://i.postimg.cc/1tMtnyNk/4.jpg



Sawing tapers on a different type of parallel guide ...

https://i.postimg.cc/7P1f7jvV/9.jpg
And if you need, the K3 converts into a traditional table saw with rip fence ...

https://i.postimg.cc/kgwrH4TV/Y1a.jpg

There is a router table built into the outfeed. Again a space saver. The B3 might do this for you as well.

https://i.postimg.cc/1RKw8xB7/1-D7-BE8-DD-9673-43-D3-A0-C9-01-AFADD9-DAED.png

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

I work primarily in solid stock, although I will admit that there have been a few more projects lately that used sheet stock because of setting up the new shop, etc. I've been a slider user since the mid-2000s. It was downright painful to me when I was using a cabinet saw in the temporary gara-shop last year before my new shop building was up here at our new property. It was a great saw (PCS) but I was so used to the functionality and repeatability of the slider that it was...for me...a compromise. My new slider is a short stroke so when I do work with sheets, I use my tracksaw to do any long rips. Otherwise, all the processing gets done on the slider. I also very rarely use my miter saw because I leverage the slider for that work, too. The miter saw just gets rough stock break-down if necessary and "construction" tasks.

On the shaper vs router table, IMHO, they are complimentary and each has advantages. Even gaining the shaper with that B3, I wouldn't bag the router table. And as you note, mobility helps a lot when you have to use the space for something else. (I've never used a garage for vehicles outside of a week when I was preparing one for sale to a friend :D )

[Erik Loza]

Todd, I realize that you think you may not need a longer sliding table but that was the #1 regret I heard from buyers: “I should have bought a longer slider”. Your decision, of course.

Also, from a sales standpoint, the most aggressive discounts and promos were always on the B3 with “Comfort” package, which was 78” sliding table, outrigger (very useful), precision mitre index system, and probably a few things I’m forgetting. It’s been a couple of years but if memory serves, by the time you optioned-up a 48” B3 with the stuff the Comfort comes with, the price difference was a lot less than you might think. Just speaking from experience.

Since you seem to be located in Houston, would it be worth a drive to the Felder showroom in Carrollton? They should have at least one variant of a B3 or C3 on display. Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Jacques Gagnon]

Todd,

A few thoughts for your consideration.


I am looking at a Hammer B3 saw/shaper. IÂ’ve avoided getting a table saw and have worked with a track saw, band saw and hand tools for years, which has worked well. I have a fully equipped Jessem router table and a bench top mortiser. But I recently bought a nice used cabinet saw and am now having second thoughts about whether a slider might be a better fit for comfort and safety and space constraints.

The setup is a four car garage with two cars parked inside at night. I.e., space constrained at night, but during the day, I can spread everything out with plenty of room.

I mostly work with solid wood and build normal sized furniture. Any sheet goods will be rough ripped at the lumber shop or broken down with the track saw. I don’t use the router table much but think I might want to move into cabinets and raised panel doors for one off projects. Maybe the table saw is better than a hand plane and hand saw for that?
I have a Hammer A3-31 and like the quality. I am thinking that the B3 with mobility kit might be more compact than the cabinet saw, and the shaper might replace the router table.

any thoughts?

I moved from cabinet saw, 15 inch planer and 8 inch jointer to A3-31 and B3 machines in the fall of 2021. I also own a Jessem router table with has served me very well. Another fan of the A3-31 here.

The B3 actually requires a smaller footprint than my cabinet saw from a « width » perspective with the same space to the right of the blade. The « length » parameter is influenced by the size of the slider. In my case, I chose the 2 metre carriage and the space required for the saw « at rest » is similar to my old setup since there was a wooden support extending from the cast iron surface to support the plywood crosscutting sled. Essentially no significant difference here.

If you decide to go ahead with the B3, I recommend that you get the outrigger as part of your package. This has been a game changer for me. Easy and precise cuts, including easy squaring of parts (much more practical and less bulky than my old plywood crosscutting sled).

As for the router table, my original plan was to order the router spindle and then decide whether to keep the Jessem or not. A last minute change in the configuration of my machine resulted in my missing that the interchangeable spindle option had disappeared from my order.

As a hobbyist I had never worked with a shaper before. I am impressed by the results obtained with the shaper cutters when compared to trying the same operation on the router table. This is particularly the case with larger material. I still find the router table very useful for smaller components (e.g. jewelry boxes). I bought a power feeder which is nice from safety and work quality.

Regards,

Jacques

[Jacques Gagnon]

Erik,

…it looks like I was writing my comments at the same time as you.

My machine is the Comfort package and I echo the comment regarding the mitre index system.

Jacques

[Erik Loza]

Erik,

…it looks like I was writing my comments at the same time as you.

My machine is the Comfort package and I echo the comment regarding the mitre index system.

Jacques

Haha, no kidding Jacques. I took a fair number of “what does it cost to get the outrigger as an accessory” from existing owners. By the time we got the freight cost and lead time worked out, the customer was always like, “Umm… Let me get back to you”. Which is why I always encouraged folks to budget for it as part of the original build.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

Haha, no kidding Jacques. I took a fair number of “what does it cost to get the outrigger as an accessory” from existing owners. By the time we got the freight cost and lead time worked out, the customer was always like, “Umm… Let me get back to you”. Which is why I always encouraged folks to budget for it as part of the original build.

Erik
The same reasoning goes into why I always suggest that folks looking at "that other brand" buy the standard package because there are a lot (make that "all") of essential things that are included and don't have to be optioned at higher costs. I a manufacturer is bringing in any pre-determined configurations/packages, that standard setup likely has some efficiencies in production that make for an attractive buy, even if there are one or two goodies that a specific person might not use very often or at all.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Erik and Jim,

I completely agree with you and including the shipping costs associated with an « after the fact » purchase, there are even more savings at play, not to mention lead time for such deliveries.

[Todd Zucker]

These are all very helpful insights. I have been looking at the B3 Comfort with 1250mm table and miter index and crosscut. Felder says this unit would be a special build, not something in stock in the US, and would take about 2 months. I will ask them if they have a standard configuration B3 with the longer table and the bells and whistles that is easier for them to sell at a good discount.

I might give some thought to driving to the showroom in Carrolton. I did that before buying the A3-31.

Giving the B3 a permanent location makes perfect sense and fortunately doesn't rule out a longer table. The garage is deep, and the machine should have plenty of room when idle, and I could move the cars and open the double doors at the rear of the garage to accommodate moving the table back and forth.

Rich, I think my real hobby has become rearranging tools in the garage instead of making furniture. The decision to finally buy a table saw was prompted by an unexpected opportunity to buy a really good one in good shape with accessories at a really decent price five miles from my house. It would have been ideal if I had done some homework and planning beforehand, but it seemed like the opportunity might disappear if I waited. The saw is impressive, but once I put it in the garage, it seemed like it had grown a couple of feet in every direction, and adding a permanent outfeed table might be problematic space wise. My "better fit" comment referred to space constraints and my lack of experience with a table saw of any kind, rather than insinuating that a slider is "better" than something else. Jim B's comment in an earlier thread about being in the "line of fire" until he got his slider back also resonated with me. Being inexperienced with a table saw and having some space constraints, it made me think a slider could be the "right fit."

If I go in this direction, it might end up being a "buy twice, sell once, cry once" scenario. Wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Derek Cohen]

Todd, I realize that you think you may not need a longer sliding table but that was the #1 regret I heard from buyers: “I should have bought a longer slider”. Your decision, of course.

Also, from a sales standpoint, the most aggressive discounts and promos were always on the B3 with “Comfort” package, which was 78” sliding table, outrigger (very useful), precision mitre index system, and probably a few things I’m forgetting. It’s been a couple of years but if memory serves, by the time you optioned-up a 48” B3 with the stuff the Comfort comes with, the price difference was a lot less than you might think. Just speaking from experience.

Since you seem to be located in Houston, would it be worth a drive to the Felder showroom in Carrollton? They should have at least one variant of a B3 or C3 on display. Good luck in your search.

Erik

Hi Erik

I wonder how many of these customers were working predominantly or exclusively with solid wood? I would absolutely agree with you if I used built from sheet goods and had the space for a long slider. In my work, I have no need for a longer slider (well .. very occasionally I might want about 12" more). Long boards benefit from being crosscut to approximate length - if you plan to joint and thickness them, shorter is always better in regard to saving stock thickness.

The point is that choice of slider length is not simply "bigger is better". Less can be more when saving space. The reason I write this is that prospective purchasers need to consider what they plan to use the machine to do.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jacques Gagnon]

Salut Derek,

You posed an interesting question. I understand the point that Erik is making about going for bigger if available and I agree with your statement about considering what one intends to do with the equipment. Given the limited space available in my small shop the choice was clear for me - longer (i.e. 8 feet and up) sliders were out of the question. This then brought the next question: which one of the three shorter carriages do I choose? I landed on the 2080mm slider because I felt that the projects I would work on would require components longer than 1300mm. I work with both solid wood and panels in a proportion of about 80 - 20 and panels are almost always broken down before landing on the slider. Like you (and probably every wood worker) I sometimes could use that « extra 12 inches » as was the case for two dining table projects that called for 2200mm and 2500mm components. I managed to get things done (two-part sled built with melamine coated panel held in place with wood cleat inserted in the slider groove).

With hindsight, had I chosen the 1300mm carriage would not have been the right choice and the 2080mm was the bigger (and better) option. But again, this reflects my needs and the limitations posed by my shop. I clearly sit in the camp of « « « what do you want to do and therefore what is best suited to your needs? ».

Regards,

Jacques

[Aaron Inami]

It's great that you are looking at the B3 Comfort at a minimum. The slider is 2050mm (6.6 feet). Keep in mind that you will lose about 10-15" once you put on clamps with the crosscut fence. What this translates to in reality is that your cutting length is going to be 65-70" (or about 5-1/2 feet). I know that you are going to trim down sheet goods with a track saw, but if your final material might possibly be longer than 5-1/2 feet, then I would recommend looking at the B3 Perform model. You need the sliding table saw to be able to make perfectly square cuts on sheet goods. This is difficult with a track saw. On larger material, a variance of .5 degrees is going to translate into a huge gap.

The B3 Perform is $1300 more, but it buys you this:
- machine weight goes from 880 lbs to 1255 lbs.
- machine steel base is much longer and provides better support for the slider itself (resists the saw tipping/flexing if you are processing heavier material)
- slider is mounted/aligned with 8 mounting bolts compared to 6 mounting bolts on the B3 Comfort
- has a longer 2500mm slider. If you move your crosscut fence to just past the edge of the slider, you can actually cut an 8 foot sheet if you don't use clamps. With clamps, you are looking at 75-80" (or between 6'3" to 6'8"). (You lose another 8" from that slider extension at the rear end).
- bigger outrigger and longer crosscut fence (you can crosscut to 8 feet if you need).

The downside is that it definitely requires a lot more space. When I bought my slider, I originally placed the order for a 6.6 foot version (like you are considering). I was told repeatedly by several people that I would regret the size and actually changed my order to a 9 foot slider. It is definitely longer and fills more space, but I love it and don't regret the decision at all. I have a smaller 2 car garage shop (20x20). I can make 5 foot slider cuts with the garage door close. If I need to do longer cuts, I just open the garage door to allow the slider to move out to full length. But yes, it does take up a huge amount of space.

The B3 Perform doesn't have the miter plunge index, but I don't think this option is really expensive. I considered this option when I bought my K700S, but ultimately decided not to get it. I have done angled miter cuts on occasion, but I have not seen any drastic need for that quick plunge miter index. You still have the miter angles printed on the outrigger table, so you can still do precision angle cuts. If you need to do quick-set miter cuts on smaller types of material, you can always get the miter gauge system for Hammer:

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/coupling-systems-sc123856/mitre-fence-with-mitre-guide-sp123858

https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/shop/fence-plates-sc123834/crosscut-fence-sp123837


If you do decide you have the room for the larger B3 Perform, I think that you might find yourself using this more than the track saw to break down sheet goods. It's so easy to set the crosscut fence at a particular length, throw on the plywood sheet and run it through the saw - and you have a perfectly square cut. It takes a bit more time to setup this type of cut using a track saw, but it's doable.

Not trying to push you one way or another. Just giving more ideas for consideration.

[Greg Quenneville]

I will echo the advice to upsize the slider to 10’ if you can. I have two Felder combos…one with the short slider and one with the 78”. The smaller machine is great for working with solid wood, and the larger machine is just too small to work with sheet goods without some compromise.

That said, if space is a concern then get the largest slider you can and be happy. If you aren’t going to making a lot of kitchens all of a sudden then you will have few frustrations and much more capability than a cabinet saw. Get an outrigger, even if only for resale value. Although you will likely end up using it all the time.

Greg

[Mick Simon]

I don't regret getting the longest slider that would fit in my shop. It took 39 iterations of floor layouts in CAD to make it happen, but zero regrets.

As others have said, I work primarily in solid wood and the occasional panel is almost always broken down with my track saw. My reason for wanting the longer slider is for straight line ripping, which is, IMO, the real game-changer for sliders. I've made a few 84+" solid wood tables using the slider to straight-line the edges for glueing. Perfect glue edges from the saw. I almost never have the carriage installed - it rests behind my A3-41.

I also second Jim's recommendation of having a separate router table rather than relying solely on the router spindle attachment for the shaper. Rotation speeds are much lower on shapers.

[Aaron Inami]

Another thing to consider is adding the scoring blade option. If you are doing any plywood or melamine material, you can have chip-out on the bottom of the ply with a single table saw blade:

508379508380

These are example of extreme cases, but you can have chipout on a variety of different plywood or melamine stock.

[Carl Beckett]

I have a CU300 combo after decades with separates. My comments:

Definitely prefer the slider over the cabinet saw. And, it is 'safer'. Combination of convenience and safety - especially with a FF jig - would not go back unless I am forced to. Getting the fence out of the way is considerably safer, as is having the workpiece held better. I break down sheets before they go on the saw (usually). It does have a scoring blade which I do not use much at all. A good sharp blade is all I need. trimming the end (even miter) on a relatively longer piece is doable since it is held securely - which means I do not use a miter saw again saving space.

It is a 'short slider'. I do not need a longer one. Remember, you can always hand feed pushing the material through like any other table saw.

The combo machine does save space. However, I find changeover on the jointer/planer inconvenient. Having it in planer mode limits table size for the TS - and I go back and forth. If I had the space, I would go with the separate J/P combo located with more room to utilize. This may be a non issue for you but mentioning it.

I have a separate router table. I do occasionally use the shaper, but it requires more setup and is more suited for larger cuts than the router table. I still get a lot of use from the router table. Additionally, budget a feeder for the shaper (and consider how you might mount it to clear everything - taking it on/off is another changeover). Consider spindle size - mine is only 1 1/4" which means more expensive tooling. Start with a rabbet, groover, and a profile set (what I randomly started out with but has turned out to be a good range of capability)

Dust collection on this machine is 'average'. I do have an overhead collection/guard on the TS - this is worthwhile and factor into the system.

Not the same as you are looking at, but some similar functionality.

Good luck!

[Mike Stelts]

After Jim Becker showed me the advantage of sliders, I found a used B3, later sold it and bought a new KF700S. Of the added options, those I found most useful were: widest outrigger, longest slider, electronic height & tilt. I found cutting sheet goods to be easy and accurate: a track saw isn't necessary. The electronic height & tilt let me easily repeat saw and shaper setups weeks later. The slider is not just for long stock, it also lets me have a couple setups on the saw at the same time. I also have the scoring blade; but, I haven't done work that necessitates it yet. Cabinet work is scheduled later, and I'll bet this will be added to the list of useful features then.

[Nick Crivello]

I have a 20x20 shop (my garage) and an older K700S pro with 10' slider. It's situated against the wall and facing out the garage door. The 16" Porter jointer is nested up against the wall just behind the saw and co-planer, such that the saw is effectively the outfeed for the jointer.

I use the short fence most of the time but the outrigger is close by on the mobile carriage. Its about a 2 minute process to attach/detach when needed. The short fence can be configured in a forward or aft position on the slider to facilitate use in a sort of 'short stroke' configuration when the door is closed.

The sliders are big but they're flexible enough for use in smaller spaces imo. Traditional cabinet saws still require the same infeed/outfeed space anyhow.

[Warren Lake]

I put the slider bar behind the radial table and on to the jointer so the radial table and the jointer are the extension table for the slider. still needs some tweaking but compresses stuff big time.

[Mike Wilkins]

Another slider user here (Laguna) and would highly recommend adding one to your arsenal. I also have a standard cabinet saw but seriously considering selling to free up some space. I also think a slider is a safer machine since your digits are far from the cutting action.
When placing your order from Hammer/Felder, research their website for any options/accessories you may be interested in, as the lead time is months, not weeks. I ordered some components for my Hammer F3 shaper the last week in January; they arrived in mid September.

[Todd Zucker]

Warren, do you have a photo of your configuration with the jointer and radial table?

[Nick Crivello]

I put the slider bar behind the radial table and on to the jointer so the radial table and the jointer are the extension table for the slider. still needs some tweaking but compresses stuff big time.

I'm not quite understanding what you're saying here.

[Warren Lake]

at the moment im in the middle of stuff pulled apart and more cabinets going up onto the wall for the stuff. TV and saw blades sitting on stuff and doing five other things that have to be done, Here is a chicken scratch sketch to show what is done till I take a photo.

Im putting together a third machine room temp for now. this is the right side. Normally I would run a right hand support table on the slider to the right of the blade and that would be between workbench here and the right hand side of the radial arm. In this case im limited to 23 feet approx and this position and how its laid out now works Its different as there is not righ support table on the slider. I cant fit it in as Id need 27 or 28 feet of length so just put the bar in and will make a support for the bar or it can attach to the radial saw. The coloured in part is the bar for the slider rip fence.

The thing marked A is a piece of wood for the table saw rip fence to slide on when it is past the table, then travels onto the radial arm table. Likely have over 50" of rip capacity forgotten might be more. the workbench in this case is not one of the Umias but a past work bench with Record vises and gets used for some car repair stuff as well. I try to work on it daily but have other stuff on the go. If I had the length on that wall then there would be the right hand support table on the slider since not enough length there this was the solution. That is not having the right side support table on the slider you would normally have.

The work bench provides support for long boards on the radial on the right, the jointer support on the left. The radial and work bench provide infeed support for the jointer and the outfeed end of the jointer there is a door that opens. There is a door before the work bench that opens. I can do material up to 16 foot solid and have support either side.

If you want to envision how I normally do this imagine the radial arm shown there being the side support table for the saw then just slide the radial and jointer up. Just could not do that i this case. The other way saves good space, this more.

I tried to edit to ad temp infeed support id use on 4 x 8 or long material and cant get rid of the original photo


508475

[Rod Sheridan]

I’m on year 13 of my Hammer B3 Winner with the 4 foot capacity crosscut sliding table.

I mostly build solid wood furniture with the occasional kitchen cabinet style cabinets.

The mid length slider is perfect for me, I use the shaper a lot, really handy to have a shaper with a sliding table, tilting spindle.

I suggest you purchase both the 1 1/4” and 30mm diameter spindles so you can share blades and grooving tooling between saw and shaper.

Or if you have no 1 1/4” tooling, just a 30mm spindle.

If you buy a machine and want shaper training by video, PM me.."…..Regards, Rod

[Todd Zucker]

I see both sides of the length/cost-benefit/space argument for the longest possible sliding table but keep leaning towards Derek, Rod and Jim in terms of the short slider as adequate for building solid wood furniture in the garage.

My garage is small, and the furniture I build is modest. A 48" chest of drawers would be about the max. The top of a 60" sideboard would probably be cut with a track saw and edged by hand.

For me, I have been using the Festool MFT (or band saw or hand saw) in lieu of a table saw for at least a decade. I had not considered the table saw (slider or otherwise) as a replacement for the MFT. The MFT cart has a 31" x 46" footprint with some fences and rails that stick out a few inches further. It is kind of big for a small garage. Maybe it should be returned to a temporary work surface that I can fold up and put in a closet and replace it with a table saw as the center of the work area.

If a 48" x 48" K3 slider could completely or almost completely replace the MFT cart for everyday use, it might be the right solution for functionality and space savings. The slider would be the center of the garage, the MFT could become a temporary table as it was originally envisioned, and the track saw with the 4 foot or 9 foot track could handle almost anything else I would come across.

Jim B also indicated that he uses the slider instead of the miter saw in many instances. Maybe the Kapex could be moved to a less "prime" area of the garage.

[Jim Becker]

Todd, I think that you'll find that the MFT will still be a part of your workflow regardless of slider size, both because you are used to it, and because having that track makes for some easy operations that might be more cumbersome on the slider, even though it's a slider. Example...routing dados/grooves across narrow workpieces that have some length to them. I don't use my MFT very often, but I'm glad I have it. I actually did try to use it as my "primary" saw solution in the temporary gara-shop while waiting for my new shop to be built and it didn't cut it, pardon the expression. Some of that was just my own work habits and some of it was because it was difficult to work with very small workpieces. I ended up getting a cut down cabinet saw to use until I could get back to a slider in the new shop.

[Erik Loza]

…If a 48" x 48" K3 slider could completely or almost completely replace the MFT cart for everyday use… Jim B also indicated that he uses the slider instead of the miter saw in many instances…

Todd, maybe this was already mentioned but by the time you add any sort of fence to a 48” slider or any clamps or other accessories, the usable stroke on that table gets shorter in a hurry. Just be aware that with that length slider, your effective ripping stroke will be around 36” when it’s all said and done. Again, maybe you’ve already factored this in.

I would suggest getting pricing on two configurations of K3 or B3 from your Felder rep. One, the 48x48 (configured as you wish, but WITH outrigger and mobility kit; the outrigger is mandatory any time we are talking about using a slider as a mitre saw or as workpiece support, like your MFT table). The other option, a K3 or B3 Comfort, which will have both an outrigger and mobility, as well as scoring and the heavy-duty rip fence guidebar. I have a pretty good idea what the price difference would be but wonder if you have actually done the numbers?

Erik

[Aaron Inami]

I would not really recommend using the slider as a "work table". I have found that it is very easy to put dings/scratches in Felder aluminum slider. You should really only be putting wood onto the sliding table. Any sort of nails, clamps, tools will likely cause dings/scratches/marks on the slider. If you don't care about this, then great, but it is a concern.

[Jim Becker]

I would not really recommend using the slider as a "work table". I have found that it is very easy to put dings/scratches in Felder aluminum slider. You should really only be putting wood onto the sliding table. Any sort of nails, clamps, tools will likely cause dings/scratches/marks on the slider. If you don't care about this, then great, but it is a concern.
And yet, there have been a bunch of times when I've used my outrigger as a clamping table because it's very flat and open enough to allow for clamping material down to the crossmembers. The heavy powdercoat on my slider's outrigger never blinked from clamps nor does glue stay on it easily. Of course, all of my clamps have plastic or other soft surfaces on the business ends.

[Todd Zucker]

I got pricing on the K3 Comfort and B3 Comfort before thinking about the 48 x 48. I assume that would be equal or slightly less. I am going to put some painters tape down on the garage floor. Looks like the footprint when idle is 5 feet left to right and 6.5 feet front to back but in use would be about 8 feet wide and 16.5 feet for the sliding action. Erik, I think your earlier suggestion about driving to the showroom might be a good idea.

Aaron, I should have mentioned that I use the MFT for its track saw function and as a flat surface and was not intending to have the slider replace the workbench.

[Rod Sheridan]

Haha, no kidding Jacques. I took a fair number of “what does it cost to get the outrigger as an accessory” from existing owners. By the time we got the freight cost and lead time worked out, the customer was always like, “Umm… Let me get back to you”. Which is why I always encouraged folks to budget for it as part of the original build.

Erik

I’m probably one of the few people who added the outrigger a couple of years after buying the machine.

Fortunately I live in Toronto so there were no freight charges.

Regards, Rod

[Steve Jenkins]

Todd, if you come up to the Felder showroom they are very helpful. I have a slider although it’s not a Felder I’d be glad to give you some tips and time playing with it if you want. I’m about 45 minutes north of Felder outside of McKinney.

[Chris Parks]

I’m probably one of the few people who added the outrigger a couple of years after buying the machine.

Fortunately I live in Toronto so there were no freight charges.

Regards, Rod

I am also one of the few who added the outrigger after purchase and it cost the same price as it would have fitted by Felder from new. My saw will crosscut a full size panel and I have never needed more than that over the 11 years I have owned it. The one thing I never regret adding is the fine adjuster on the rip fence, adding a DRO to the rip fence combined with the fine adjuster is the icing on the cake. DRO's are under a $100 each now and I have recently also added one to the outrigger fence as well.

One advantage I have found buying the outrigger later is that I now have two crosscut fences that can be fitted to the sliding table one at each end and the advantage to that is they can both be set to the same dimension and a piece of 20** series extrusion then placed against both flip stops and used as a parallel fence or an angled guide as needed. Using a $100 DRO on each fence is an added winner and a cheap alternative to the very expensive alternatives available up to now. I would recommend this approach to anyone with a slider, buying another crosscut fence and a couple of cheap DRO's is a relatively inexpensive exercise on top of the machine cost.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Chris:

I went the other way around. I bought the Comfort configuration and added an additional fence + mount and ended up on the same place as you and Rod. Two fences, two flip stops.

Todd:

As I stated in an earlier post, I work in a small shop (single car garage - 14 x 20) and it was relatively easy to fit the 2080mm slider. By the way, if you decide to go ahead and choose the B3 you may wish to order the height gauge for the shaper (mm version) as you will find it very useful. You may already have one on your A3 and be tempted to use it on the shaper - it will work but will test your patience as the pitch is the same but the rotation of the dial is reversed. DAMHIK

[Chris Parks]

I am going to start a new thread to continue this discussion.