If this is a scam, please explain it to me....

[Rick Potter]

I am trying to sell a pickup for my 91 year old BIL, who is sick.

I put the ad on CL at midnight last night, and did not even have the pics up until 11 tonight, but still got a bunch of replies. Two of them stated they would buy it at listed price ($30K) but could not come to see it for various reasons. Sounds hinky naturally, but they both offer to send me a check, wait till it clears, and then they will send someone to pick it up.

All they are asking from me is name, address, cell number, and asking price. No mention of bank info, or anything else. I suspect if I jump on it they will ask for bank info or other info. Am I right, or could this be legit?

Thanks for any info.

PS: The first one just backed out, saying he thought it was 4WD, so only one now.

[Tim Elett]

I worked with a guy that was offered the same deal forty years ago, i guess after the check bounces, the person cashing the check, is on the hook for the money.

[Brian Runau]

I am trying to sell a pickup for my 91 year old BIL, who is sick.

I put the ad on CL at midnight last night, and did not even have the pics up until 11 tonight, but still got a bunch of replies. Two of them stated they would buy it at listed price ($30K) but could not come to see it for various reasons. Sounds hinky naturally, but they both offer to send me a check, wait till it clears, and then they will send someone to pick it up.

All they are asking from me is name, address, cell number, and asking price. No mention of bank info, or anything else. I suspect if I jump on it they will ask for bank info or other info. Am I right, or could this be legit?

Thanks for any info.

PS: The first one just backed out, saying he thought it was 4WD, so only one now.

Anything I sell online I list as " cash and local only." There is no issue of them physically picking up the product. Cash may not be practical in this case. Did you consider selling to carmax or caravans to avoid potential fraud. Brian

[Brian Tymchak]

I worked with a guy that was offered the same deal forty years ago, i guess after the check bounces, the person cashing the check, is on the hook for the money.

It takes just a few minutes for a bank to verify if the check is good before cashing it.

[roger wiegand]

Absolutely a scam. It takes much longer for a check to actually "clear" than it does for the money to appear in your account. Checks can (and do) bounce weeks after they've been deposited. AFIAK no bank will "verify" that a check is good. They _might_ tell you sufficient funds are present in the moment, but that is no guarantee that the money will be there when the actual transaction happens many days later. A wire transfer is probably the most secure and difficult to fake means of exchanging money. A bank service like Zelle offers similar security. Cash, assuming it's not counterfeit, is also good, but has attendant risks of loss or theft. Likewise a cashiers check, drawn on the bank's own account (different from a "certified check" drawn on the individual's account) is also good, subject to any good forger being able to make a fake check that will pass inspection.

[Tom M King]

Money and vehicle transfer at your bank only. No wire transfer. You would have to give bank account routing and account number. Zelle has limits. Cash or certified check at your bank to be verified by a banker there only.

[Ronald Blue]

It takes just a few minutes for a bank to verify if the check is good before cashing it.

Most banks because of privacy laws will give little info over the phone. They may verify there is an account but not necessarily if the check will clear. The account might be legit but that doesn't mean the check is. So many counterfeit checks produced by scammers these days. The old way of waiting 10 days for a check to clear isn't a sure thing any longer. This smells like a big time scam though. Check the spelling and punctuation in the reply. Remember the old adage "if it sounds to good to be true it probably is".

[Mark Hennebury]

100% scam!

[glenn bradley]

Another loss for the decent folks. We used to just call the bank to verify or go into a branch of the bank that the check was written against and verify / cash it on the spot. It sounds like this is no longer done. Regardless I would not be comfortable selling a vehicle as you describe. Used cars are still bringing a premium right now and rightfully so. There is a legitimate buyer out there at the right price point.

[Jim Becker]

That is 110% a long time scam...do not entertain the thought of even continuing communication with anyone responding like that. This particular kind of scam has been happening for decades on online marketplaces like CL. The check will likely be for more than the amount you want with a request to send back the difference or some variation of that theme. You end up not having a buyer in the end since they are not "real". and are out the money you send back plus the bounced check fee. You want a local buyer only with cash or certified funds on a local bank.

BTW, Facebook Marketplace is getting strong market reach in many areas. And also get quotes from Carmax and other vehicle buying services. The funds are good and sometimes competitive with private sales when you consider it removes the hassles.

[michael langman]

Rick, The exact same thing happened to me trying to sell my boat on craigslist. I went through the same thing you are going through . I was pretty sure it was a scam after researching online, and talked to my credit union. They said that the check sent to me looked too authentic to determine it was a fake. I would be liable for the funds if the check bounced..

I did not cash the check and when the scammer called me and acted threatening to me that I had not cashed his check that supposedly cost him money to make. I told him to come and see me in person and I would gladly give him back his check.

[Bill Dufour]

The one who backed out might be legit. the others are scams. It can take a month to 45 days for a check to bounce. Even if it shows as being deposited the bank can retroactively remove the funds.
Bill D

[Bruce Page]

I sold my last car through Carmax after playing the CL, etc game. It was almost painless.

[Rick Potter]

Got it.

What made me wonder is that they offered to wait until the check cleared. I was not aware that checks could be denied AFTER clearing, and the last thing I want is to owe my BIL money I don't have.

I sold my last car to a dealer at a satisfactory price, and I have gotten Kelly Blue Book estimates of the price on the pickup, including selling it to a dealer. The average KBB trade in price was $23,205, but the price they came up with for selling to a dealer was $9800. Makes no sense to me either, but dealers were all very anxious.

An RV dealer said he would put it on the lot for $30, so we are trying for that as an asking price. It is a low mileage diesel dually.

Thank you for the help, I think we should list it on other sites, and stay local.

[Jim Koepke]

I had not cashed his check that supposedly cost him money to make.

My father used to gripe that it cost him ten cents to write a check on his business. Knowing my father that was the cost of the printed check and everything else he could imagine. If someone was counterfeiting checks it might have cost them more to "make" a check.


The one who backed out might be legit.

It might have been the same person on a different email account trying to make the seller think his buyers were disappearing.

The cost of cars today makes selling them as an individual a possibly dangerous enterprise. My last vehicle sale was an old truck for $550. That wasn't a lot of cash and I had about 5 offers in the first two hours on Craigs List. I may have been able to get more. That is water under the bridge.


An RV dealer said he would put it on the lot for $30, so we are trying for that as an asking price.

You may want to check with your insurance company to make sure the vehicle is covered for anything that may occur while at said dealer. Also make sure what the dealer may expect as a commission on any sale.

jtk

[Thomas McCurnin]

It doesn't take minutes to see if the check clears, because the check could be, and likely is, a counterfeit, and the scammer will distort the MICR numbers at the bottom of the check in some way so the check will not electronically scan and has to have a add on strip called a Lindy Strip to be processed. If it is out of the Federal Reserve zone you are in, it might take a week or two to actually clear, and the account holder has 30 days to spot the fraud and report it back to the bank, so you are on the hook for about a month. Even cashiers checks can be counterfeit.

[Stan Calow]

I thought this is what cashiers' checks aka counter checks (like a large money order) are for: big transactions using the issuing bank's money, not a private check. But still not a transaction I'd do.

[Jim Becker]

I thought this is what cashiers' checks aka counter checks (like a large money order) are for: big transactions using the issuing bank's money, not a private check. But still not a transaction I'd do.
They can still be forged and pretty well, too, by some folks. A lot of scammers out there are not working along, either. There's less risk of that when you're dealing face to face with a buyer and they get you a cashier's check from a local bank branch.

[Chris Parks]

As a general rule Australia stopped using cheques years ago and 99% of payments are made digitally but these scams continue to happen even then.

[Lee Schierer]

If you accept any check from a private citizen for that amount, take a photograph of them holding the check and a photo of their drivers license.

[Michael Schuch]

Forged check. The check clears against someone else's account and you sign over the truck. The account holder files a police report and gets their money back. By the time that has all been cleared up the truck has been sold to someone else with your signed over title. The scam artist can't be found or traced.



I got a call the other day. Amazon wanted to know if I had purchased a Mac book recently...
Me: "Yes sir, I did."
Caller: "Huh???"
Caller, in a perturbed voice demanded: "When did you purchase it!!!"
Me: "Don't you have the transaction information in front of you?"
Caller: CLICK!
Me: LOL!!!! :p

[Jim Koepke]

I got a call the other day.

Calls from overseas are often on some internet or other service so there is a delay between my answering the phone and someone on the other end saying, "hello." I try to time my hang up to when they are half way through saying, "hello." I'm sure that is very frustrating, I know this from personal experience from back in the days of pay phones with connection delays. It doesn't seem normal to me to call someone and after they answer to just say, "hello" and nothing else.

Sometimes if I want to have fun, after they say, "hello" I will say, "hello, our records indicate your vehicle warranty is about to expire." They usually hang up on me.

jtk

[Michael Schuch]

I am not so nice. Someone calls with a car warranty offer or what ever. I am very interested but I am on the on the other line right now, Hold on, I will be right back in just a minute.

About 6 minutes of them on hold is my top score so far... you only 10 words to convince them you are interested so you really have to sell it with the tone of your voice. I have had more practice selling it with the tone of my voice than I care to.

[Greg Quenneville]

My 85 yr old mother-in-law's hobby is messing with scammers. She strikes exactly the right note of sweet and gullible, pausing the steps in the scam with lengthy travelogues about Australia involving fictional characters identified only by first name as though the scammers knew these people too.

She had one guy spend ten minutes waiting for her to finish her rambling to give her (phoney) bank details. She actually cackles when she gets a live one.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have not gotten any of those calls since I switched over to Magicjack with their call screening that requires the caller to push some random number for the call to ring my phone.

[Larry Frank]

I get calls that suggest they are from Medicare. I am certain some older people are confused. It is so sad that businesses are set up to scam people.

[Michael Schuch]

My 85 yr old mother-in-law's hobby is messing with scammers. She strikes exactly the right note of sweet and gullible, pausing the steps in the scam with lengthy travelogues about Australia involving fictional characters identified only by first name as though the scammers knew these people too.

She had one guy spend ten minutes waiting for her to finish her rambling to give her (phoney) bank details. She actually cackles when she gets a live one.

Excellent! Good for her! The longer we tie them up the less profitable it is for them to try to run their scam. I hope she invites them over to see the pictures????

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Got it.

What made me wonder is that they offered to wait until the check cleared. I was not aware that checks could be denied AFTER clearing, and the last thing I want is to owe my BIL money I don't have.

It is not that a check can be denied after clearing, it is that clearing does not mean what many people think it does.

Banks pretty much universally offer you an advance credit that posts to your account when the check is deposited at your bank. The credit is of course contingent on the check clearing, and buried somewhere in the fine print disclosures on your account it will say that the bank can take it back if a check bounces.

Most people think that because they can see the credit to the account, the check has cleared. But in reality you are just seeing the advance credit.

Clearance is a complicated process that runs through the one of the federal reserve banks and takes days.

[Bill Dufour]

I know when I sell stock, Schwab deducts the money that night but takes a few more days to transfer the cash into my account. Then I have it sent to Wells Fargo. Again it is gone that night but takes a few more days to show up. So it can easily take 3-5 days for money to get over. This is all online with accounts all tied together tied together in my name. So pretty hard to run a scam.
It was confusing the first few times as the money is gone from my accounts but floating in cyber space and I have no idea where it is.
I am sure involving a check from an outside account, not already verified and tied to my account, would take much longer to be confirmed.
Kaiser was cashing my checks for about six months but forgot to credit my account. They even stopped sending me a bill. They threatened to cancel my insurance for non payment.
I had to get the state insurance commission to get it straightened out. The state was aware of the ongoing book keeping problems before I called them. Kaiser was so bad they could not tell me what my monthly premium should be. The bills went up and down each month before they stopped coming
BilL D .

[Jim Koepke]

It was confusing the first few times as the money is gone from my accounts but floating in cyber space and I have no idea where it is.

You can bet the banking folks know where it is. Banking may have changed since the last time I looked into it. Financial institutions at times make money on the float through overnight loans to other financial institutions. It doesn't take 3-5 days so much as federal regulations require banking transactions to be completed in specified periods of time.

Recently we received a check from a state office in California. Our bank (one of the big ones) took a whole week to credit our account. At least we were not in need of the funds at the time.

jtk

[Alan Lightstone]

I am not so nice. Someone calls with a car warranty offer or what ever. I am very interested but I am on the on the other line right now, Hold on, I will be right back in just a minute.

About 6 minutes of them on hold is my top score so far... you only 10 words to convince them you are interested so you really have to sell it with the tone of your voice. I have had more practice selling it with the tone of my voice than I care to.
I used to do that with saying, "Oh, hold on a minute, someone is at the door". Then put them on hold and wait. I actually had someone stupid enough to call me back after about 10 minutes.