I only have 3 hrs to make this decision! Please comment

[Josh Goldsmith]

I currently have a delta 1 1/2hp 1200cfm 8*static pressure dust collector. I am running a table saw, jointer, router table, bandsaw, and soon i hope to be adding a drum sander and a planer. I have a chance to purchase a grizzly 3hp 2300cfm 16.7* static pressure for a great price. My question to you guys are will the upgrade make a big difference. I understand that more cfm means more sucking but for a couple hundred dollars is it worth it to upgrade. Do you think it will be a noticeably big difference? Opinions quick please i have to let the guy know is 3 hrs. Thanks Josh

[Dennis Peacock]

Josh,

HP makes little to no real difference in dust collection. It's the actual size of the impeller that matter. A 5HP motor spinning a 12" impeller produces, for example, 1,200 CFM. A 50 HP motor spinning a 12" impeller produces, for example, 1,200 CFM. If the impeller size is the same? Then no...it's not worth it.

JMHO on the subject.:D

[Cecil Arnold]

Josh, it that is the cyclone, I would say go for it. If it is a cart. single stage collector then I would save my money. Just my opinion.

[Josh Goldsmith]

The Delta 1200cfm dust collector i think has a 11" steel fan impeller, and the grizzly 2300cfm dust collector has a 12" fan impeller. With more cfm do any thing for the sucking power or is it just going to allow me to add a few more tools and have the same amount of sucking pressure. Thanks

[larry merlau]

i agree with what dennis said earlier, he has made several and is well informed on what is good in that department. USE his knowlege. i would vote to get a cyclone rather than bag type if you want to upgrade later.

[tod evans]

josh, any decision involving equipment shouldn`t be made in a hurry. spend some time researching your options and spend your money wisely...02 tod

[Josh Goldsmith]

Why are cyclones better. Don't they just seperate the large particles to the small particles?

[tod evans]

josh, try here for an education on dust collection....02 tod

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

[Rob Russell]

Josh,

If the DC you're talking about is this one (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1030), I wouldn't buy it without planning on upgrading the filtration bags to 1 micron bags. That unit has 30 micron bags and will do a beautiful job of blowing the super fine dust all over the shop. That superfine dust is supposedly what is really bad for our lungs.

Rob

[scott spencer]

Hi Josh - I agree with the advice to avoid making substantial machinery purchases on the fly. There will also be different electrical needs to consider...the 3hp will require 220v.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Josh......I'm with others here..............Don't make a rush decision on ANY equipment upgrades .........Any! My wife, who sales shops anything and everything, cornered me at HD......she offered to buy me a new table saw but it was only on sale for 1 more hour....with a lifetime warrantee. I looked at it several times before the hour was up and caved in. Luckily for me, it was a new model and FWW months later rated it as a good buy for the buck. It'll probably serve me well for several years. Later I found the Creek and the wisdom here and I'd probably have put a few more dollars with those spent at HD and bought a different saw.

Don't buy in a panic!

[Dennis Peacock]

Josh,

If the DC you're talking about is this one (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1030), I wouldn't buy it without planning on upgrading the filtration bags to 1 micron bags. That unit has 30 micron bags and will do a beautiful job of blowing the super fine dust all over the shop. That superfine dust is supposedly what is really bad for our lungs.

Rob

AGREE completely!!! And it's the worst kind of dust for your lungs and sinuses. Is your lungs and sinuses worth a few hundred bucks? Just ask your family if you don't already know.;) Been there, done that....

[Dan Stuewe]

Why are cyclones better. Don't they just seperate the large particles to the small particles?

Josh, you're right. That is all a cyclone does. Now with a well designed cyclone the relative size of "large" and "small" is very important. With a well designed cyclone the "large" particles are nearly 100% of the chips/dust by volume (folks talk about filling barrels with chips/dust and only having a handful of the fine dust in the filter cartridge). So, why should you care? well a bag over bag collector with a fine enough filter (bag or cartridge) will collect the same amount of material (i.e. keep the same amount of material from getting into the air or onto the floor). The problem is once the filter starts getting clogged, you loose a ton of performance, you're basically plugging the exit. Which means not as much air can be sucked into your DC. Which means not as much chips/dust can be sucked into your DC.

Another benefit is it is much easier to empty the barrel at the bottom of the cyclone then the bag in a bag over bag DC.

The drawback to cyclones is you need a well designed and powerful blower to effectively use the cyclone action.

Does this help?

[Josh Goldsmith]

My dust collector goes on the other side of of a wall which is just dirt and an air compressor. I have all the ducting goint though a wall into my garage so i don't get the fine dust unless it comes from my tools. I am trying to get ride of alot of the dust in my shop/garage. I am tired of having the floor covered in fine dust. I have 220 readily available so i am not worried about that. My main concern is that will this help eliminate my dust problem. I am only thinking about buying the grizzly dust collector for $250. Here is a link http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1030 to the dust collector. If you have any other suggestions i am open to them. I just have to get rid of all this dust i am worried i might get sick in the long run. I am going to be adding 1 more drop off my dust collection to have an over-arm dust collection above the table saw blade cause alot of my dust is coming from that. I want to be running the over-arm and the standard dust collection on my table saw craftsman 22124. Thanks for all the comments. Josh

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Josh, if you want to upgrade, go to a cyclone, like others have said.

I have a Dungeon workshop, no door (a hatch to get down there) no windows, only an exhaust fan and intake to exchange air, I had a bad collector, true the bag was a 30 mic one, but just the same, it it left soooooo much dust every were, I was better off with out it, it became a "dust re-distributor".

I built a cyclone, as in Japan, I did not have the option of buying one like you do.

I'd recommend you follow the link to Mr. Pentz's site, sit back and educate yourself on the subject.

If you want to build your own, you can look at my pages on it.....

Stu Builds a Cyclone (http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/cyclone.htm)

If you want to buy one, I think there are some good products out there, but the Clear Vue ones are made to Mr. Pentz's specs.

http://www.ablett.jp/workshop/images/cyclone/filter_stack_cleanout_drawer_check.jpg

This is the filter stack clean out of my cyclone after about 6 months of use, I'd guess I'd emptied the dust bin below the cyclone at least a dozen times, if not more in that six months, and if you rub your hand on the bottom of the drawer, you get a very slight amount of dust on your had, and I mean VERY slight.

Mr. Pentz's design is not the run of the mill design that was converted from a cotton cyclone or such, it is "Designed" for woodworking.

I cannot tell you the difference in my shop with the amount of dust, it has just about been eliminated, except for a few tools like the router and the chain saw :rolleyes:

The most important thing with any DC, cyclone or bag system, is how much air it moves. My cyclone could be a little better, I could tweak some more, but for now it works well enough.

With the bag system, like Dan said, is the bags get clogged up, and your air flow drops a ton, this is never a problem with the cyclone.

In a nut shell, a large bag system is not an upgrade, IMHO, a cyclone is an upgrade, and is MUCH healthier for you.

Cheers!

[Bob Dodge]

Hi Josh,

Which 1 1/2 hp delta do you presently own? The Delta DC-850? If so, do you know which version?(there were 3) You stated you have an 11" impeller. Does yours have a 4" air-restriction collar just inside the 6" blower inlet?

As Dennis said, the 12" impeller on the 3hp Grizz, will determine(and limit) the airflow. There is however another factor involved here. The outlet of that blower is far larger than most of the so-called 2hp dc's you see out there. Most, have a 5" blower outlet transition-flange, to mount the outlet hose which runs to the bag-tree. This reduces outlet back-pressure, which impacts directly on suction. You will have more suction with this 12" impeller dc, than you will with another 12" impeller dc that has the 5" outlet. Very few of the 2hp dc's out there at the moment, offer the large blower outlet. The only two I'm presently aware of are the Delta 50-761, and the Belfab JJ.

Going back to your Delta 850. IF you do have the 4" air-restriction collar, that collar is merely tack-welded in place. It is there to ensure you don't overload the motor. Using this dc wide-open, will definitely overload the motor. As long as you use this dc with the appropriate ducting resistance, removing that collar will not interfere with the normal operation of that dc.

Furthermore, look at your motor name-plate. You'll see the letters "Cont" stamped on the nameplate. That means your motor is rated for "Continuous" duty-cycle operation. You also have manual thermal overload protection.

That Delta 850, is the only consumer model 1 1/2 hp dc out there at the moment, that offers full 6" porting (inlet/outlet). Removing that restrictor collar, will allow you to take full advantage of that feature.

Now, if yours is the older version (no restrictor) then your dc was the second highest performer in the June 2000 American Woodworker Magazine survey. It pulled 895 cfm with a 10 ft , 6" diameter test-pipe. Only the 2hp Jet DC-1200 managed more, and it too had all 6" porting (inlet/outlet) but, it had a 12" impeller.

If you're going ahead with the Grizz, you'll definitely see more suction. Up-grade those 30 micron filters however. Consider that in your cost. I'd buy it ONLY if I were getting a VERY good deal, especially if you're adding a filter-upgrade.

In terms of airflow/suction, the new 2 hp Delta model 50-761, should easily match that Grizz, and not one penny required in up-grades. 12" impeller, and 7" inlet/large outlet, and probably the nicest filters I've seen on ANY consumer model dc. They're rated to 1 micron, and over-sized to 41 sq.ft. for low pressure-drop as the filters load. Also, the unit offers twin waste-bag collection, which means much large waste-capacity, longer run-times before having to shut-down to empty the dc. Price in the US is $499. minus discounts. No shipping involved because Delta dc's can be found just about anywhere.

Good luck,

Bob

http://www.rd.com/americanwoodworker/toolguide/TT_DustCollection.pdf

[Josh Goldsmith]

So you all are saying if i am going to be upgrading i should go with a cyclone. You don't think i should stay with a dust collector and add a trash can with a lid to make it a 2 stage which is just like the cyclone. I just want to make the fine dust disappear and have plenty of suck power! If i decide to go with a cyclone dust collector what hp would one need to have plenty of power? Thanks Josh

Nice walkthrough stu!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

You are welcome Josh.

Go with the cyclone, you will not regret it, I have not.

Go read up at Mr. Pentz's site, it is a lot to read and digest, so do it in small bites, but I think you will come to the same conclusion as I and many others have, a cyclone just simply SUCKS :D

[Alan Mikkelsen]

My dust collector goes on the other side of of a wall which is just dirt and an air compressor. I have all the ducting goint though a wall into my garage so i don't get the fine dust unless it comes from my tools. I am trying to get ride of alot of the dust in my shop/garage. I am tired of having the floor covered in fine dust. I have 220 readily available so i am not worried about that. My main concern is that will this help eliminate my dust problem. I am only thinking about buying the grizzly dust collector for $250. Here is a link http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1030 to the dust collector. If you have any other suggestions i am open to them. I just have to get rid of all this dust i am worried i might get sick in the long run. I am going to be adding 1 more drop off my dust collection to have an over-arm dust collection above the table saw blade cause alot of my dust is coming from that. I want to be running the over-arm and the standard dust collection on my table saw craftsman 22124. Thanks for all the comments. Josh

Several years ago I was able to buy a Grizzly 1030 3 hp dust collector from a cabinet shop that had outgrown it. It had a newly rebuilt motor on it. I paid $150 and added heavy felt bags to it. I have it in the 'metal' section of my shop, along with air compressor, welding table, etc. Interestingly enough, I also use this area for finishing, with a dedicated fold out spray booth. The area is clean enough, with a mild vacumning from time to time and blowing a little air around, to spray waterborne lacquer and conversion varnish with absolutely no problems. The four bag Grizzly has a lot of suction! I have no regrets.