Harvey innovation being copycat by …

[Rich Konopka]

Correct me if I am wrong. Last week I whined about Harveys inflated shipping costs. But this week I am applauding them for their innovative products. Their tin coated saw tables are now being copied by none other..

Powermatic.

Introducing Armorglide

https://wood.powermatic.com/armorglide/

[Andrew More]

Except this seems to be a different type of coating? Both seem short on details, but every TiN coating I've seen has that characteristic golden color. The Powermatic coating is black.

[lou Brava]

I never thought of tin coated table as an innovation. Maybe I'm missing something here, I look at it as nothing more than marketing besides it looking cool how does it improve a table saw ?

[Chuck Saunders]

According to the Powermatic ad copy it is magical. I think it will deflect meteor strikes, provides the frictionless plane from physics class, and will keep avocados from turning brown after slicing. Great claims with no detailed info on the actual coating.
Chuck

[Rich Konopka]

I never thought of tin coated table as an innovation. Maybe I'm missing something here, I look at it as nothing more than marketing besides it looking cool how does it improve a table saw ?
Rusty rust rust rust.

[Bill Dufour]

Teflon non stick pans?
Bill D

[Rick Potter]

Along the same topic...What ever happened to granite tops on table saws? Did those that were sold have problems, like maybe cracking?

Not too long ago Powermatic (?) sold a table saw with a thick wood butcher block style extension table. Anybody got one of those? It looked like a neato way to have a useable bench in a small shop.

[Rich Konopka]

Teflon non stick pans?
Bill D

Seriously, when I lived in Rhode Island and was living 1000 feet from the ocean rust was a major issue despite waxing the top of my DJ20, MM16, and Delta saw. It was a struggle especially during the summer

[Richard Coers]

Along the same topic...What ever happened to granite tops on table saws? Did those that were sold have problems, like maybe cracking?

Not too long ago Powermatic (?) sold a table saw with a thick wood butcher block style extension table. Anybody got one of those? It looked like a neato way to have a useable bench in a small shop.
The whole company went under is the reason granite stopped.

[Richard Coers]

Seriously, when I lived in Rhode Island and was living 1000 feet from the ocean rust was a major issue despite waxing the top of my DJ20, MM16, and Delta saw. It was a struggle especially during the summer
Did you woodwork outside? Salt water fog got in your shop? Moisture control is really quite easy.

[Rich Konopka]

Did you woodwork outside? Salt water fog got in your shop? Moisture control is really quite easy.

It was a small unheated garage. When you live that close to the ocean the morning dew is saturated salt water. If you could only seen what it did to my weber grill.

[Rich Konopka]

The whole company went under is the reason granite stopped.

Wasn’t Bridge City the company selling the table saw with a granite top? If so, Harvey bought them out about 5 years ago.

[Edward Weber]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Harvey used to be a manufacturer only.
Making products and components for other retailers. Now they sell their own line of products, it's no wonder some of the same features would eventually show up on their own machines.

[Brian Runau]

Sealmaster gold series bearings use black oxide as a rust preventative finish. Could it. Be a variation of this? Brian

[Earl McLain]

Wasn’t Bridge City the company selling the table saw with a granite top? If so, Harvey bought them out about 5 years ago.

Close--it was Steel City. I nearly bought one, but was in the process of becoming addicted to Mag Switch feather boards. Kept my cast iron saw.
earl

[Jim Morgan]

It was a small unheated garage. When you live that close to the ocean the morning dew is saturated salt water. If you could only seen what it did to my weber grill.

And it often gets extremely humid in RI. Like now.

[Mike Soaper]

Home Depot also sold a Ridgid granite top table saw

[Nathan Sampson]

Steel City is still alive in Canada. The Canadian distributor for Steel City bought the rights when the company folded in 2015. It's now essentially the house brand for the Normand woodworking stores and the same Taiwan equipment that everyone else sells. https://steelcitymachines.ca/en

[Edwin Dodds]

I wonder if Powermatic is using something like this carbon coating;

https://carbonmethod.com/carbon-coating/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-86b9mYHRQ&t=574s

[Rich Konopka]

And it often gets extremely humid in RI. Like now.
Come on down to Hotlanta!!

[Brian W Evans]

Come on down to Hotlanta!!

I grew up in coastal CT. Cars rusted out like crazy, along with anything else made of steel, no matter how it was coated. Salt air gets everywhere - even inside houses. Corroded refrigerators, doorknobs, and bathroom/kitchen fixtures were commonplace.

I have also lived in CA, AZ, TX, GA, and VT. I have spent summers in MS, MO, SC, and FL. Subjectively, the humidity in CT (and RI and MA) makes summers feel wetter and more miserable here than anywhere I have ever spent time. Even in inland CT it is a constant battle to keep rust off of my machine tables.

I would be very interested to see what Harvey's and Powermatic's coatings do in the long run.

[Rich Konopka]

I grew up in coastal CT.

I miss going to Bills restaurant by the singing bridge!! Are you familiar with it?


Getting back on Topic. I used Boeshield T9. It’s expensive and needs to be applied frequently.

https://boeshield.com/shop-woodworking-tools/

[Brian W Evans]

I miss going to Bills restaurant by the singing bridge!! Are you familiar with it?


Getting back on Topic. I used Boeshield T9. It’s expensive and needs to be applied frequently.

https://boeshield.com/shop-woodworking-tools/


Absolutely! I ate there many times. Fantastic fried clams. Gotta eat hunched over so the seagulls don't get your food, though...

[Steve Demuth]

It's not tin coated; its TiN, that is Titanium Nitride. TiN is very hard ceramic that bonds well to iron, and so protects against both abrasion and rust. It's also a low friction surface. It's commonly used to coat cutting tooling like drill bits, and also used to coat medical implants because of its corrosion resistance. Elemental tin (symbol Sn) can be used as an antirust coating, but it's very soft. Fine for use in tin cans, where durability and abrasion resistance is not an issue, wouldn't last long enough to be worth the trouble on a cast iron tool surface.

[Erik Loza]

Seems like they may be using a moly-disulfide coating that has been used in aftermarget racing pistons for many years:

https://www.wiseco.com/auto/wiseco-auto-tech/how-modern-piston-coatings-improve-performance/

[Alex Zeller]

Isn't Harvey making Powermatic tools? Not sure I would call it copying when it's the same company building them.

[johnny means]

Call me a sceptic, but could the truth be that PM's typical polished finished is becoming too expensive and not having a
"premium" surface wasn't a viable option for PM.

[Steve Eure]

Alex Zeller is spot on as for Harvey making the PM equipment. They also make many other of the larger saw companies equipment. Even the beloved SawStop. I saw a video interview a few yeas ago with the owner of Harvey and he told of all the the different brands he handled. It just stands to reason to offer the same type of coating on the PM's seeing as to their following here in the US. More market share because of the name brand.

[Dwayne Watt]

Seems like they may be using a moly-disulfide coating that has been used in aftermarget racing pistons for many years:

https://www.wiseco.com/auto/wiseco-auto-tech/how-modern-piston-coatings-improve-performance/
I highly doubt moly disulfide is being used on a saw table top. Moly disulfide is a lubricant coating that actually transfers between the host item and the mating metal. It is not very hard but is very slippery. It is the material used in anti-seize. More likely Powermatic is using a nitriding process. Melonite is a trademark name for nitrocarburizing but many heat treating facilities do the same process without the fancy name. Nitrocarburizing will result in a very hard, dark surface that is rust proof and relatively slick (with a bit of post process polishing). It would be a great choice for a table saw surface.

[Rich Konopka]

Really good information being shared. I found this article. Read and look at the photos carefully. I don’t think Sawstop is made by Harvey. Also, isn’t Sawstop made in Taiwan?
https://www.woodworkersjournal.com/harvey-bringing-woodworking-education-china/

[George Yetka]

Did you woodwork outside? Salt water fog got in your shop? Moisture control is really quite easy.

Not always. I had 1 bad dehumidifier in the basement, which was not a big deal half the basement was living space with ac. The second went a week ago in my workshop and humidity quickly climbed to 70%. The replacement I ordered showed up yesterday, the day after the wife left our garage door open overnight :( .Woke up to 87% humidity in the garage yesterday. I tore apart one of the dead units and was able to get it to a point where it runs for 45 minutes before faulting( spent the day babysitting it) got it down to 70%. Tonight I can plug the new one in. I think its time for a commercial unit in the garage.

[Dave Sabo]

Correct me if I am wrong. Last week I whined about Harveys inflated shipping costs. But this week I am applauding them for their innovative products. Their tin coated saw tables are now being copied by none other..

Powermatic.

Introducing Armorglide

https://wood.powermatic.com/armorglide/


um………yeah, you’re a bit mistaken.

Sawstop was selling blades TiN blades a decade ago and The Depot sold a Ridgid blade with it almost two decades ago.


First “coated” blade I can remember came from Oldham last century and it was some kind of Teflon like coating.

[mike stenson]

Blades, sure. Cast iron tops...

[Rich Konopka]

um………yeah, you’re a bit mistaken.

Sawstop was selling blades TiN blades a decade ago and The Depot sold a Ridgid blade with it almost two decades ago.


First “coated” blade I can remember came from Oldham last century and it was some kind of Teflon like coating.
Um … yeah we weren’t talking about blades dude.