Cambering plane blade

[Mark Rainey]

A new plane blade is ground straight across. When cambering a blade by hand, not using a grinder, what are the techniques used. I try to keep the angle ( 30 degrees ) the same but turn the approach of the blade so the left and right edge lead. There is the tendency to lift the opposite side of the blade but I find the process confusing. I am looking for advice for those who camber almost all their blades, smoothing, jack, etc. by hand.

[Tom M King]

For a smoothing plane, all it takes is a bit of extra pressure on both ends of the cutting edge on the final stone/stones. For the others, anything from such pressure on more stones in the process, to grinding the camber in for more extreme cambers. I don't think you want to do the hogging planes by hand. Even for no. 6's, I wouldn't want to camber them by hand.

[Reed Gray]

This is some thing I am still figuring out. If the blade is perfectly straight across, you will get small lines from the edge of the blade. They can be seen and felt. At first I was putting a bit more pressure on the edges with the coarser stones, 1000 grit and up. That does seem to help. If you have a scrub plane, you kind of have to eyeball that much of a curve. I am working my way up the grits to see what works best. Generally, I just apply extra pressure on each outside of the blade for maybe 10 strokes on the 8000 grit stone. That seems to do the job. Well, at least I am leaving fewer marks.... Just about anyone who covers plane blade sharpening will cover this topic. Rob Cosman, Stumpy Nubs, Matt Estlea, Wood by Wright, and many others. They all do it slightly differently. As always, it takes some experimenting to find out what works for you. Biggest problem for me seems to be making sure the blade is perfectly square to the throat opening.

robo hippy

[Jimmy Harris]

Are you wanting to just round off the edges, or put a radius across the whole blade edge? Because if you're wanting to put a radius on the blade, like you would with a scrub or fore plane, then I'd find myself a grinder. The amount of work involved with that, and the difficulty in keeping the bevel and radius accurate, would be nigh impossible for all but the most skilled and patient among us. Even doing it on a grinder isn't easy, but it definitely takes the time and skill requirements down to something most mortals can deal with. Doing it by hand would require a figure 8 pattern or side to side roll pattern, which is difficult enough for just sharpening an iron. Trying to grind the iron to a radius from straight doing that would be some level of hell.

If you're just looking to round the edges so they don't leave tracks, I just put my index finger on the corner that I want to round off and push down on that corner, and then rotate the iron at an angle so that that corner I'm rounding is leading as I sharpen the iron. In other words, the iron is twisted diagonally to the direction I'm sharpening, instead of perpendicular. Then flip it around and do the same to the other corner. Keep the z-axis angle of the blade the same as normal so you maintain a constant bevel, and the increased pressure from your finger will slightly round the corners, as they'll see more wear from your stones. Since you're not removing a ton of material, it's pretty easy to do by hand. I usually only do this with the coarse grit, as it shouldn't be cutting into the wood, but just shy of it.

[Tom Trees]

A tip, to which I'm highly thankful to David W for, as I likely never woulda found out otherwise,
is a method for getting the camber perfectly balanced, since I choose to use the cap iron like anyone should for a panel plane or smoother,
as it's rarer to find the few examples of timber species what doesn't benefit from that, that might be personal for some,
I digress only to mention the camber must be very even and small to make it work.

Anyway, David's term "directed pressure" is more than misleading for what he means by that.
It sorta reads like leaning, and if skip read, might well seem like fingers close to the edge is describing what you might have seen, from say Cosman's tight and close grip for instance.

This isn't what David mentioned, as there's NOT much tipping involved if any...
The objective is to get each end symmetrical, which might take a go or two, to attain this Goldilocks camber.
David mentioned having a finger "on the money" and getting fingers dirty if need be (the reason I wouldn't have found for myself)
i.e nearly pressing on the stone, if yer still thinking Cosman distance :)

Much the same thing as lapping a card scraper with splayed fingers, where you place them, is where the material will be removed from.
This is much the same thing as with the corners of the plane iron.

Difficult to find a term for that, as near everything might come across as suggesting leaning or tipping.
Hope that helps, plenty of sharpening debates crop up often, but very little of them are actually concerning that aspect.

If to add anything onto this, is to make note of the position of the plane iron on the stone, and that it will work nicely when it's being honed
in much the same position as it would be in a honing guide, i.e in-line with the stone,
as not much happens doing this method if the iron is skewed.

That tip has saved me much effort, as everything else gives me variable results at best.

Good luck
Tom

[John Kananis]

I use a figure 8 motion when sharpening. When I want to keep edges completely square, I keep finger pressure in the middle of the blade. If I want the corners to ease off, I keep finger pressure on the outside of the blade.

[Warren Mickley]

In general, the stone gets a bit dished and naturally creates a slight camber on the blade. I have sharpened freehand for over sixty years and rarely flatten a stone.

For my smoothing plane and jointer plane, I am usually trying to limit the amount of camber, so I let the iron overhang the side of the stone. That concentrates the sharpening on the center of the iron, to keep it a small camber. It also wears the edges of the stone to help keep the stone flat. Managing the stone.

For a jack plane , I usually want more camber than the stone would naturally give. I let the iron cut only on one side or the other. You don't have to lift up or lean the iron very much, just see that the cutting is toward the edge. Again you are trying to manage the camber and maintain flatness of stone by how you sharpen.

I have seen bloggers promoting a rather extreme camber on the iron for rough work. Most of these people don't actually plane boards by hand unless it is for YouTube. In practice the camber is greater than a smoothing plane, but still rather subtle. You want the camber such that the corners don't dig in, but not much more.

[Rafael Herrera]

A perfectly straight edge is very difficult to achieve if one sharpens free hand, the tendency is for the iron to camber ever so slightly.

A straight edge on a smoother or a trying plane will leave track marks if your shavings are thick enough.

You want the ends of the blade to gradually stop cutting so no tracks are left behind. I've tried two methods to achieve that when sharpening: one method is to lift the blade and round off the blade corners, the second method is what Tom above says David recommended, "directed pressure". That is, without lifting the iron, apply more pressure on the corners of the iron to wear those ends a bit more than the center.

You don't say, but for what purpose are you asking about cambers? The pronounced camber used in jack/fore planes and to a lesser extent trying planes is not quite the same as what you need for a smoother.

[Mark Rainey]

A perfectly straight edge is very difficult to achieve if one sharpens free hand, the tendency is for the iron to camber ever so slightly.

Rafael, I have had never had free hand sharpening accidentally result in a camber that is of any use.

You don't say, but for what purpose are you asking about cambers? The pronounced camber used in jack/fore planes and to a lesser extent trying planes is not quite the same as what you need for a smoother.

After using hand planes for 20 years I am thinking that mastering camber is essential for full use - jack planes, smoothers, etc. The pressure at the ends does not give
me much, and does not give me a gentle curve. Warren, you are lucky to have a gently dished stone, but I do not. In that case do you recommend David Weaver's method as Tom describes above?

[Richard Coers]

There was a very early woodturning sharpening fixture that went all the way to the floor. You pivot it from side to side to grind a shallow arc on a scraper. I did the same thing to camber a plane blade. The length of the arm dictates the arc you want. I use a 1/2" dowel and a block of wood to hold the plane blade. If you put the pivot on the centerline of the wheel, it does a wonderful job.

[Warren Mickley]

After using hand planes for 20 years I am thinking that mastering camber is essential for full use - jack planes, smoothers, etc. The pressure at the ends does not give
me much, and does not give me a gentle curve. Warren, you are lucky to have a gently dished stone, but I do not. In that case do you recommend David Weaver's method as Tom describes above?

I am not sure that I do things differently than David. I gave a case where I am trying to obtain less camber and one where I am trying for more camber.

If you sharpen a cambered iron, you don't really need to lift it up, just see where on the edge it is cutting and make a small adjustment if needed. If you use the same small number of planes all the time, you remember which irons need more or less camber and gradually effect a change.

[steven c newman]

So...go watch the The Woodwright's Shop episode called "Hand Plane Essentials"

As they will show exactly HOW to camber the iron. BTW, I looked in the bottom of a certain Tool Chest...
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And that same Stanley No. 5 was indeed sitting there...
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Building where that tool chest is located...and is still in use by this fellow...
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[Tom Trees]

Here's two threads from the horses mouth
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/plane-and-chisel-sharpening-tools.125696/#post-1396126

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/sharpening.137789/page-6#post-1587974

I didn't recall it was from a video of his, so it's one from before 2020, should be still there I would hope.

Tom

[Tom M King]

You can watch the amount of swarf created where you want to take more metal off, and it's a pretty good indicator once you get a feel for it. I keep a pair of block planes without camber, and a pair with. The only bench plane I have without camber is a no. 8 as I just use it on big edges but none that are as wide as the blade. The others all vary. I keep a number of no. 3's and 4's that match cambered finish plane tracks in old houses I've worked on. I don't own a single plane with only turned up corners and never saw indications of such in old work.

These are new shutters and steps on old museum houses. The depth of camber tracks and widths match other old smoothing planed surfaces in those houses. You can't see it without a strong raking light, in both these cases by the Sun. This type of work is really forgery, and it's a poor forgery with modern machined surfaces.

[Jim Koepke]

Rafael mentioned something pertinent to the subject:


A straight edge on a smoother or a trying plane will leave track marks if your shavings are thick enough.

When smoothing, a very light shaving will help to avoid tracks.

With a very light shaving if one wants to camber the blade, a stroke or two to the outside edge of the blade will be enough.

Here is an old post from a dozen years ago (and resurrected three years ago) on one method to camber a blade

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?158373

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

So...go watch the The Woodwright's Shop episode called "Hand Plane Essentials"

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I watched it: it is pitiful.

[steven c newman]

Attacking the messenger, just because the message is NOT what you are preaching? About the normal response, ain't..Sirah..

[Rafael Herrera]

No one's attacked you. Not clear what video you're talking about, I searched for it and only found an advertisement for Chris Schwartz's hand plane essentials book.

This stuff is not rocket science, it doesn't take much to figure out what works and what doesn't. You get better at it by using the tools, not by watching youtubers.

[Rafael Herrera]

After using hand planes for 20 years I am thinking that mastering camber is essential for full use - jack planes, smoothers, etc. The pressure at the ends does not give
me much, and does not give me a gentle curve. Warren, you are lucky to have a gently dished stone, but I do not. In that case do you recommend David Weaver's method as Tom describes above?

If you are after a camber that you can see when you look at the blade, you're in the realm of the jack plane use, coarse work.

For a smoother and trying plane, you don't need to actually see it, you can see the effect on the shavings you get and the lack of track marks. You can control that camber whenever you sharpen and then use the plane.

I don't know how you sharpen, but it should not matter, the idea is to wear more at the ends and less at center. With your 20 years of plane use that should be easy to accomplish.

[Bob Jones 5443]

As the years fly by, I see more and more of today’s woodworkers have forgotten — or abandoned, or indeed never knew — about the late David Charlesworth. David is the Ansel Adams of hand plane fine tuning. He has a precise method for achieving a camber on a new iron, and then resharpening to the camber, that is so simple a novice can do it on the first try (ask me how I know). But not one poster mentions it in this thread.

Maybe it’s the cultural gap: David speaks in a crisp RP dialect (that used to be called the Queen’s English). I think most Americans are put off by it. Too stuffy? But he’s really just an old surfer dude who delighted in sharing his knowledge with those who want to achieve excellence. And among the kindest men I’ve ever met.

Probably the biggest reason his teaching is obscure today is that he didn’t flow into YouTube. You need to buy his DVDs to see the instruction. That’s not merely old fashioned. That’s an extinct form of communication now.

But those of you who look into it, and are willing to throw down twenty bucks for his Sharpening Plane Irons DVD (Lie-Nielsen) will discover what I’m talking about. Then you’ll know.

Hint: he uses an Eclipse honing guide, the one with the center wheel. That allows you to place reproducible pressure on the exact quarter-inch you want on the stone. Like Adams and his Zone System, David provides an idiot-proof sequence of steps that will make you proud of your plane irons. I’m still an idiot, but I’ve mastered cambered sharpening perfection on all my plane irons using his method since 2005.

Whenever I’ve advocated David’s methods here I’ve always been met with crickets. Blows my mind that he’s fallen into obscurity.

[Rob Luter]

If you are after a camber that you can see when you look at the blade, you're in the realm of the jack plane use, coarse work.

For a smoother and trying plane, you don't need to actually see it, you can see the effect on the shavings you get and the lack of track marks. You can control that camber whenever you sharpen and then use the plane.

I don't know how you sharpen, but it should not matter, the idea is to wear more at the ends and less at center. With your 20 years of plane use that should be easy to accomplish.

^ This ^

I've always cambered a tiny bit, as one would on a smoother. Just a tiny bit at the corners. You can't see it in the finished surface. I recently set up a dedicated jack plane with about 0.020" camber and was surprised how much difference it made. It leaves noticeable scallops in the wood. I also have a "roughing blade" from LN with an 8" radius. It's good for hogging off large amounts of wood like a scrub plane.

[Rafael Herrera]

A lot cricket sounds are heard when techniques that go a few steps beyond novice level stuff are mentioned. Perhaps another reason is some distaste for guru quoting. I don't have David Charlesworth DVDs, but I've seen some video clips on yt. I can't say that I was blown away by them, but I may have learned a thing or two. However, I did not adopt his ruler sharpening method, a beginners shortcut.

He did have a peculiar accent, it reminded me of the mannerisms of Buddhist practitioners and their slow, calm way of delivery. I don't mean that as a compliment, there is something about practiced speech techniques that I don't find appealing.

How to sharpen is perhaps one of the most fundamental skills to be learned early on. Doing it is the best way to develop the skill. Quoting a personality, be it DC or Cosman or Sellers, is like an incantation, "buy their stuff and you'll be set" kind of advise. Just go and sharpen the darn chisel and you'll find out what works.

[Edward Weber]

A lot cricket sounds are heard when techniques that go a few steps beyond novice level stuff are mentioned. Perhaps another reason is some distaste for guru quoting. I don't have David Charlesworth DVDs, but I've seen some video clips on yt. I can't say that I was blown away by them, but I may have learned a thing or two. However, I did not adopt his ruler sharpening method, a beginners shortcut.

He did have a peculiar accent, it reminded me of the mannerisms of Buddhist practitioners and their slow, calm way of delivery. I don't mean that as a compliment, there is something about practiced speech techniques that I don't find appealing.

How to sharpen is perhaps one of the most fundamental skills to be learned early on. Doing it is the best way to develop the skill. Quoting a personality, be it DC or Cosman or Sellers, is like an incantation, "buy their stuff and you'll be set" kind of advise. Just go and sharpen the darn chisel and you'll find out what works.

I pretty much agree
IMO, once you get the "basics", you then develop your own individual methods that work for you.
In other words you get a fell for things. Cambering a plane blade is one of these things. Simply adding a bit of pressure to the corners to ease them off should be more intuitive than some seem to want to make it.
As far as the "crickets" comments:
Watching or reading how others work is only a small portion of how your own skills are built. In a certain sense, I really don't care what others do, they're not the ones working in my shop, it's up to me. I will however take what knowledge I can from their methods and try to incorporate it into my own, if and where I can. Some people who become followers, fanatics or disciples of one personality is really not helpful. I find it more beneficial to develop you own method of work. There may be some trial and error, it's part of the process.

[Jimmy Harris]

I doubt it's the accent and more that fact that you need to spend $20 and wait on shipping, plus find a DVD player. In today's world, it's much easier to find a bunch of sources online, be it video, blogs, or posts, and just get to work right away. By the time that DVD comes in the mail, you could have spent enough time practicing your sharpening skills that you don't need an instructional DVD or a honing guide. Plus, we're a pretty globalized society, so for most younger people hearing a weird accent or speech pattern is not unusual or off putting.

You really can't beat practice. And everyone kind of needs to develop their own technique. The good thing about sharpening is, if you mess it up, just keep doing it. Eventually, you'll figure it out. Like I discovered that what works for me is to freehand on a glass plane with 6 different grits of sandpaper (goes faster with more grits in my experience). I switched to glass and sandpaper because it's easier and quicker to get set up and doesn't ever require flattening. Just lay it down, squirt some water, and go. No cleanup either. Regluing new sandpaper doesn't take but 3 minutes. When I sharpen, I lock my hands, wrists and arms against my body to maintain a constant angle, and just use my hips and legs to move the blade. It's a bit weird, but it works really well for me. I haven't seen anyone else do it this way, but trial and error led me to believe that, for me, this is the best method.

[Jim Koepke]

Just go and sharpen the darn chisel and you'll find out what works.


You really can't beat practice.

Have to agree with the wisdom that has already been spoken so many times.

There are so many different philosophies & methods of sharpening, if what you are doing produces an edge that cuts to your satisfaction than forget bothering with the rest.

KISS - Keep It Simple Sharpener

jtk

[Richard Coers]

As the years fly by, I see more and more of today’s woodworkers have forgotten — or abandoned, or indeed never knew — about the late David Charlesworth. .
He just died on May 22, 2022

[Bob Jones 5443]

For me it was like following a recipe the first time in the kitchen and ending up with a perfect soufflé. I was so pleased with the results and the reproducibility that I guess I did slide into disciple status. One trial, no error sounds like success to me.

But this craft, or hobby, is great because it’s an expression of our individuality. To that end, I wish everyone the best with their cambers.

[John Kananis]

Bob, that's outright awesome. It took me years to actually get to sharp. I thought I was getting there but not until I actually hit the mark did I really get it. Understanding the burr was a difficulty for me.


For me it was like following a recipe the first time in the kitchen and ending up with a perfect soufflé. I was so pleased with the results and the reproducibility that I guess I did slide into disciple status. One trial, no error sounds like success to me.

But this craft, or hobby, is great because it’s an expression of our individuality. To that end, I wish everyone the best with their cambers.

[Rob Luter]

For me it was like following a recipe the first time in the kitchen and ending up with a perfect soufflé. I was so pleased with the results and the reproducibility that I guess I did slide into disciple status. One trial, no error sounds like success to me.

But this craft, or hobby, is great because it’s an expression of our individuality. To that end, I wish everyone the best with their cambers.

Agreed. My sig tells the tale. Once I got it figured out (hint, it took a bit) it was a game changer. Sharp really does solve all manner of problems.

[Cliff Polubinsky]

Like Adams and his Zone System

Bob,

Completely off topic, but I couldn't pass up a reference to Ansel Adams. 50-60 years ago I was obsessed with black and white photography. Carried a camera with me everywhere, worked in a camera store for the equipment discounts and because I loved taking photography with my customers. Read every thing Adams wrote and used the Zone system to develop my photo skills (pun intended). Used the knowledge to make a living for 25 years, starting with still photography and moving into industrial video production shooting all around the US and a number of shoots outside the country.

If you ever get a chance to see an exhibit of his work, especially from his time in Yosemite it will pull on your heart.

Lovely memories. Thanks.

Cliff

[Scott Winners]

I a not sure I have much to add here other than look at (and feel) your own surfaces. I have three planes I think of as scrub planes that can take off a lot of material in a hurry, around 3, 6 and 9 inch radii. I do have some planes that are ground straight across, my #8 is one of them.

MY smoothers, my #3 and one of my #4, are ground and honed straight across except for maybe an eighth or so on the corners. My honing guides all have one wheel on center, so I can tip the guide and make a reproducible angle at the corners. If you are using a General style guide with two wheels, you will need a shim, perhaps 1/8 thick for the right wheel to roll on while you bevel the left corner of the blade, and vice versa. Do NOT lose that shim.

There is a certain amount of experimentation required at this level. Kudos to you for advancing from sharpening novice.

[Richard Hutchings]

I always sharpened by hand and had no problems doing it. One day I decided to try a guide so I bought the Veritas MKII along with the camber guide. I found that I love it. I'm never in a hurry when sharpening so the setup doesn't bother me. I'll never go back to hand and eye sharpening, I love the repeatable results of this tool. Shoot me.

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[John Kananis]

Richard, quite the opposite for me. The mkii initially got me to sharp but once I figured out sharpening by hand, I just go right to the sharpening medium. Also unlike you, I'm always in a hurry when sharpening... there's usually something I have to get back to. It's a nice device though, best guide I've tried.


I always sharpened by hand and had no problems doing it. One day I decided to try a guide so I bought the Veritas MKII along with the camber guide. I found that I love it. I'm never in a hurry when sharpening so the setup doesn't bother me. I'll never go back to hand and eye sharpening, I love the repeatable results of this tool. Shoot me.

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[steven c newman]

No guide? No Problem..
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Iron is in a Stanley No. 5, type 14/15..SW logo. Free hand sharpened. Has a shallow Camber, not much, just enough..this is for a Jack plane...
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About the time Stanley used Cheeto Orange on the sides of the frog.....same time that Millers Falls came out with RED frogs?

[David Zor]

I always sharpened by hand and had no problems doing it. One day I decided to try a guide so I bought the Veritas MKII along with the camber guide. I found that I love it. I'm never in a hurry when sharpening so the setup doesn't bother me. I'll never go back to hand and eye sharpening, I love the repeatable results of this tool. Shoot me.

507525

I'm in the same place Richard. I finally bought the Veritas honing guide with both rollers about a year and a half ago and found it easy and intuitive to use. I get more repeatable results than before, I don't have to do any thinking and it honestly doesn't take any more time at the stones. I find that I take fewer passes with the guide than I used to freehand since I'm confident that the performance is repeatable. With the guide I'm not spending any additional time and I'm saving wear on my stones. This goes for both straight across and cambered honing. In fact, it was the heavily cambered iron on my jack plane that I had the most trouble with freehanding and that was the impetus for me buying the Veritas guide with the radiused wheel.

As to the original poster's question, I think that Jimmy Harris answered it well in the 4th response down. I also use a grinder to set the radius for a scrub or fore plane. Then I use the camber guide wheel to follow the radius set by the grinder.

[Mark Rainey]

Thanks for sharing your experience Dave. Several different approaches on an important topic.

[David Zor]

You hit the nail on the head! There are many different “right methods”, pick the one that works for YOU. Sharpening is not a competition, just a pitstop on the road to woodworking.

[mike stenson]

Sharpening is not a competition,

It is here. Here, sharpening methods are like mountain bike wheel sizes. Pick one and be a @ about it.

[glenn bradley]

Lots of voo-doo :). Like many others I just put a bit more pressure on the outer edges. I just want to lose the tracks not make a scrub plane :D. I do have the Veritas MKII with the camber roller and it can be handy but not absolutely necessary for me.

[Richard Hutchings]

I just enjoy the perfection of it, whether it's better or not doesn't matter to me. It's real nice tool.